Getting rid of Roe will not get rid of abortions

[vlyons]

Women have been surreptitiously terminating pregnancies for thousands of years. They have jumped out of windows, thrown themselves down stairs, eaten poison, and used coat hangers. Why would that be any different in the 21st century?

Women will drink bleech and bug poison, jump out of windows, and visit Auntie Coat-hanger Katie and Hatpin Hattie. Illegal dirty septic abortions will become a thriving back street business. Women will show up at ERs profusely bleeding and/or deathly pale from drinking poison. But of course the self-righteous assholes don't give a damn about life.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. Exactly right.

Getting rid of Roe will not get rid of abortions: it will drive women who are desperate into the arms of the illegal abortionists.

More women will die, more will be permanently scarred and on and on.

It will be a giant step backward.

[FBaggins]

2. It won't even do that

Getting rid of Roe (unlikely) wouldn’t make abortion illegal and force women to drink bleach. It would vary from state to state.

More likely outcome would be upholding the Mississippi law in a way that leaves Roe in place. So states still couldn’t ban abortions entirely, but could enact similar restrictions.

[niyad]

7. Effectively overturning Roe. If there is no clinic,

no access, a million hoops to jump through, Roe is dead.

I am sick to death of hearing the "but.. .but .see, it still exists pretense. Hundreds of laws across the states have already been passed to make Roe useless. More will be coming.

[FBaggins]

18. ?? No idea what you're going on about

All I gave was an analysis of what impact the decision would actually have (both if it actually "overturned Roe" and in the more likely scenario).

Don't really care whether you're "sick to death" over such analyses - they're relevant. Yes, there are forces all around the country trying to block all abortions. That does not mean that a particular court decision actually does so.

"Ending Roe" does not ban all abortions - even if we agreed that the court is likely to overturn Roe itself (which I still think is unlikely).

[niyad]

35. Your analysis pretends that a strong structure of

legal support exists, that there are not daily attcks, hundreds of pieces of legislation designed to make legal abortions impossible. The fact that those making the useless argument that abortion will still be "available" do not seem to be willing to address the reality on the ground. It is very discouraging.

[Claire Oh Nette]

59. Ending Roe will throw access back to the states

Ending Roe won't end abortions.
Ending Roe will create more dead women.

Roe doesn't *mandate* anyone has to terminate her pregnancy. Roe simply allows women a choice.

It's no one's fecking business. I had a rare heart attack at 24, "typically fatal in labor and delivery." No one should remove my right to choose to terminate a pregnancy to consciously save my own life. Even the Dominionists bible speaks of when to abort.

[marie999]

3. If the Supreme Court overturns Roe V Wade states will still be able to allow abortions.

Then it will be up to those who are pro-choice to make sure that women in anti-abortion states receive the finances to have an abortion in states that allow them. Also, we need to get as many Democrats as we can get elected to state offices.

[niyad]

10. Yes. Because arranging all of that will be so easy. Traveling

to another state will be so easy. Getting all the necessary information out there will be so easy. Electing Dems who will take office in 2023 will help the women who are pregnant in 2022.

[BlueSky3]

20. + 1,000. A lot of women

can’t afford the trip, can’t skip work for a trip, don’t know how to get help. As a result, especially women of color and poor women will risk their lives in a state like Mississippi with high mortality rates for pregnant women and a lot of them will die. I agree, there are no « easy » solutions. And all the female children who are victims of rape and incest will have even fewer solutions.

[marie999]

65. This is why we must have an organization to do this.

Place ads so pregnant women will know there is help. We would definitely give to an organization that helped women get an abortion.

[niyad]

67. Again, these things take TIME to organize, fundraisr

etc. What do you suggest we do for women in need in the meantime?

[marie999]

72. Anything we can such as drive them to a state where they can get an abortion.

It's not going to be easy, but something must be done.

[Lovie777]

4. "I Am Women" . ....

Helen Reddy.

[Joinfortmill]

30. Yup, and we're coming at you again, and again, and as many times as we are forced to.

[Irish_Dem]

5. Will wealthy women still have access to abortions?

Like they have had in the past?

[vlyons]

16. yes, they'll just get a 1st class plane ticket and fly to Europe. Do a little shopping afterwards

nt

[Irish_Dem]

21. Middle class and poor women will not be able to do this.

So only the wealthy will get safe abortions.

[lonely bird]

44. THIS

Anti-abortion is about class and race warfare. Wealthy and/or white anti-abortion people do not give a damn about life. They either don’t want “their taxes” which is bullshit paying for or supporting clinics in any way or they want to keep their boots on the necks of people of color.

[mucifer]

22. Not Europe, Chicago. Illinois choice laws are getting more robust

[Joinfortmill]

31. Yup

[BumRushDaShow]

50. They won't even have to do that "fly to somewhere" stuff

They can have a "D & C" (which is what they called them in the past) right there in the home (mansion).

https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/dilation-and-curettage/about/pac-20384910

Dilation and curettage (D&C)

Dilation and curettage (D&C) is a procedure to remove tissue from inside your uterus. Health care providers perform dilation and curettage to diagnose and treat certain uterine conditions — such as heavy bleeding — or to clear the uterine lining after a miscarriage or abortion.

In a dilation and curettage, your provider uses small instruments or a medication to open (dilate) the lower, narrow part of your uterus (cervix). Your provider then uses a surgical instrument called a curette, which can be a sharp instrument or suction device, to remove uterine tissue.

The above is what my mom always said those "in the know" would have their Ob-Gyns do and what it would be medically termed because technically, that is what happens - and it is a regular procedure done for women who have cysts, fibroids and/or endometriosis, etc.

But this all assumes you even have an obstetrician/gynecologist, which most poor women don't, which is why places like PPA were around to help with this, any other pre- / post- natal care, or just women's health in general, like breast health/mammograms, etc.

[Irish_Dem]

58. Yes your mom statements are quite true.

Some middle class woman could find an Ob-GYN who would do a D&C. Either a friend or one of the doc's nurses had to provide a non pregnant urine first.

Other women lived in smaller towns and perhaps could not find a doc to do this.
If they had some money, they could fly to New York.

Teenage girls who got pregnant were sent away by their parents.
Either to an unwed mothers home, or to a relative or friend who lived in a distant city.

[BumRushDaShow]

61. Since she had a tendency to get a lot of (benign) fibroids

both in her uterus and breasts, she had several D&Cs over the years and that is why she eventually went on and had a hysterectomy - and that was back in '72 when they required that my dad "sign off" on her having the hysterectomy procedure.

[Irish_Dem]

62. Women had to have their husband's signature to buy any form of birth control

back in the old days. Pharmacists would not sell birth control to a married woman without her husband's permission.

Yes D&Cs were common back then for the condition you describe.

[BumRushDaShow]

63. My mother had started off as a teacher out of college and switched to being a social worker

first for the state of PA and then for the city. This was during the '50s when she later became a stay-at-home mother right before I was born. So she saw what happened with girls and women with this kind of draconian thing going on.

That's why we had a subscription to Ms. magazine at home when it was first published. She was a big fan of Gloria Steinem and even went to some event where Steinem was a guest speaker. Mom would have been 91 this year and I know her generation were "quiet" but fierce rebels.

[Irish_Dem]

64. Yes I also got Ms magazine and traveled to Gloria Steinhem speeches.

Yes there were a lot of us rebels who helped make the changes that young women enjoy today.

[BumRushDaShow]

66. She's still at it!

Link to tweet

TEXT

Gloria Steinem
@GloriaSteinem
A feminist is someone who believes in the full humanity of all people. Now on @MasterClass, join @adriennemaree, @aguyen_amanda, @TinaTchen, and me to discuss the past and present of gender inequality in the U.S. and how we can make change for the future https://buff.ly/3cglPa8
1:53 PM · Nov 17, 2021

[Irish_Dem]

68. Yes she is still going strong! She is needed now more than ever.

The fight continues.

[Beatlelvr]

51. My brother told me his wife got an abortion before they were married

And they were married in 1972! They were living together. I never got the nerve to ask her about it.
She came from money, so I'm really curious how she accomplished that.

I had one in 1980 and have never regretted it. I probably will though when I'm in my nineties...no one to take care of me like my mom has.
Maybe assisted living facilities will be much improved by then!

[Irish_Dem]

57. There were doctors who would give a woman a D&C.

This was seen as a common surgical outpatient procedure. But the woman had to have a friend give a non pregnant urine before the procedure.

Or if a woman could afford it, she could fly to New York for an abortion.

[Lonestarblue]

6. Many people seem to think that abortions via pill will be easy for all women to obtain.

A little-noticed part of the Texas law made it illegal for abortion pills to be shipped anywhere within the state. How are women to get the pills if not by mail or package delivery?

Red states will turn medical staff into snitches by requiring them to report every positive pregnancy test to the state so the woman can be tracked to ensure she delivers a baby. And heaven help her if she has a miscarriage because she’ll have to somehow prove she did nothing to cause it or she could be prosecuted.

States can criminalize the abortions of women who go to another state by arresting them when they return home. Think of the Texas bounty hunter system where people can stalk women in hopes of making money for themselves from an illegal abortion. Or the angry ex-boyfriend who turns her in to the state for having an abortion.

And then there are the poor women, who might have help with paying for an abortion but can’t afford the time off from work to travel. They will resort to less safe abortions. And what of the 13 year old raped by a family member whose parents refuse to allow her to travel for an abortion? She cannot go to the courts in a red state for help.

All women in this country should be free to make reproductive choices. Otherwise, the women in the Christian Taliban controlled states are second class citizens denied of the same rights as women in blue states.

[vlyons]

17. And after they ditch Roe

they'll go after invitro fertilization, because ya know -- God and Jesus don't approve of that either. Have you noticed that they're not going after men getting their tubes tied?

[Joinfortmill]

32. Ha, good one.

[Farmer-Rick]

40. It's really hard to stop a couple of pills from being passed around.

A thrieving black market in abortion pills is more likely. And since many, many states allow the abortion pills, they are coming to Texas for a pretty pennie.

So good luck keeping the pills out of Texas. I can see many women willing to get those pills into Texas women's hands to help a struggling woman who is forced into a pregnancy.

Making abortions illegal will never stop abortions, especially since it only takes swallowing a couple of pills.

Before the abortion pill, it was much easier to force women to carry a fetus to term. Now......not so much.

There is a reason why the war on drugs didn't work to stop drugs.

[lonely bird]

45. Sadly, a thriving black market can lead to...

Fake pills or pills that might injure or kill the woman.

[Farmer-Rick]

49. Yeah, black markets are frequently dangerous to customers

That's why a good underground distribution system maybe necessary. Nearby states are the best locations for these.

[Claire Oh Nette]

60. Stock up

I'm tempted to ask my PA for a prescription.
I don't need it, but I'd GLADLY mail them to women in Texas.

[Maeve]

8. Fortunately, many will get access to the abortion pill

And secret but safe abortions will happen due to a network of determined people. I am NOT saying we won't have some of the tragedies of old, but we do have networks and medicines that were not available back then. And the laws be damned---enforcement will be much harder than passing a law.
And more trips across state lines...that happened back then, too. In college, I knew someone who made a quick trip out of state for a legal-elsewhere procedure.

[The Jungle 1]

9. The point is very true.

The question is why won't repukes work with us to do things that will reduce abortions.
Healthcare
Education
Housing
Living wage
Child care
Countries that have good social networks have way lower abortion rates.
Fact is these fat old white men making law don't really care about abortion.

Brazil is like 90% Catholic and abortion is illegal. However it is more common than in the US. Their social network stinks

Our country will be flooded with abortion pills and dangerous illegal abortion. When I was young abortion was illegal. We do not want to go back there.

[vlyons]

19. Yes Bill Clinton had the right idea

Abortions should be legal, safe, and rare

[Joinfortmill]

34. Because many of them are bat-shit crazy and the rest are arrogant, greedy pigs. Just saying.

[blueinredohio]

11. The self righteous assholes could care less

about back street abortions or how many women die from them. All they want is to say "WE WON!"

[StarlightGold]

47. Actually, they not only say "we won"

But they are completely uninterested in women dying or being maimed with an illegal abortion. When bringing up that fact, they come back with “Good. Any woman who attempts to ‘murder her own innocent baby’ deserves to die. Good riddance.”
This is what we are up against.

[ancianita]

12. Getting rid of abortions isn't the whole point. Women and girls in our families don't have legal

constitutional protection, and therefore are criminalized, along with allies who help them obtain ANY reproductive health benefits.

To surreptitiously live under Rule of Men is to not live free in a Rule of Law democracy.

This is about the inequality of lives and who decides which humans the U.S. Constitution is written for.

[Solly Mack]

26. Thank you

It is not a single issue. It cuts across the full spectrum of equality and opportunity.

[Joinfortmill]

36. Amen. We've been here bofore.

[ancianita]

48. Yes, indeed.

Superior beings are called to teach harmony and a just peace.

Though the unjust peace of rule of men has lasted across continents.

Neither does a "just peace," because enough of them have proven that they will not get used to "mere" equality.

[Midnight Writer]

13. Morning after pills will be next, then birth control pills.

Don't think for a moment anti-abortion activists will be satisfied with a victory against abortion.

They will just move on to the next item on their agenda. These anti-abortion groups that make millions will find a new mission.

[hauckeye]

15. Absolutely right, I also predict the following:

- women who have miscarriages will be prosecuted

- some red states will ban pregnant women from traveling out of the state in case they are going for an abortion

- some red states will ban mail delivery of “abortion pills”

[rurallib]

28. how could they ban them from traveling out of state for an abortion?

I have tried to think of what they could do, but I don't see how they could ban pregnant women from traveling.

But I wouldn't be surprised to see them matching records of pregnancies to eventual births and going after those who do not record a birth or miscarriage.

[Joinfortmill]

38. Hit them in their pocketbooks. Corporations should move out of these states.

As for Texas, give it back to Mexico for free. See how they like them apples.

[FakeNoose]

70. Not likely - the Repukes will wake up and see the light before it ever gets to that

When their own sisters and daughters start dying from botched abortions, or unsafe black-market abortion pills, or whatever. It's finally going to hit home with them too.

When their own sons, brothers and cousins can't get laid because there's no safe contraception available, they're going to realize how stupid this was.

People will turn away from the Repuke Party soon enough. Nobody will care about the "Religious Right" when they realize how phony and calculated the whole thing was.

[kacekwl]

14. I hope this point is front and center

at the SC hearings. What problem exactly are these pompous men and women think they are solving ? It's all fodder for the bible thumpers and fake Christians who care nothing about children before or after birth.

[sinkingfeeling]

23. You forgot: "and they will die."

[lark]

25. They hate women and want to control us every way they can - especially forcing birth.

They want lots of poor babies with no schooling who will work for pennies and die young from no health care. Abortion is only the start, watch for birth control to be illegalized for unmarried women very shortly and maybe even require written consent from husbands before women can get it? Watch - this is what handmaiden and the rest of the SCOTUS right wing traitors want and where SCOTUS will go if given half a chance.

[Joinfortmill]

41. It was also real life until the 1970s

[ancianita]

27. As long as predictions are floated, I'll throw these in:

rapes will go up;
rape kit testing will be nonexistent;
men will be seen as the enemy of democracy, since rule of men masquerading as rule of law is still rule of men;
women will underpopulate red states;
women and girls will have male minders.

[Joinfortmill]

29. Don't know if they realize they just galvanized millions of voters.

[usaf-vet]

46. Hopefully, significantly more than they have found ways to prevent them from voting at all.

Here is where voter suppression started in earnest.
It shouldn't surprise you that it was and is a republican strategy.

[Joinfortmill]

55. They're like cockroaches. They're everywhere.

[Upthevibe]

33. I'm thinking that whatever that pill is

(that I've heard about but don't know the name) can and will be ordered (online or by another creative way).

Maybe a friend or someone in a safe state (like California) can have it sent to them from the mfg. and then it can be sent Fed Ex to the person who needs it.

I know this is about so much more but at least during this horrible time that could be an option....

[Joinfortmill]

42. Totally agree.

[vlyons]

37. Just you wait -- When all those RWers' daughters and granddaughters have an unwanted pregnancy

from rape and no access to birth control. many will change their tune. Except of course those fine fine Christians, who will just stuff an unwanted baby in an orphanage and be done with it. Ya know -- out of sight, out of mind.

[gab13by13]

39. People are forgetting something important,

when those clinics shut down it isn't just about providing abortions. Those clinics provide all types of health care for women, that health care will be gone.

[Joinfortmill]

43. Yup. Vote.

[Solly Mack]

52. Excellent point. Health screenings for cancer, STDs, etc..

It's not a single issue.

[Beatlelvr]

54. Yes! I hate it when they are called "abortion" clinics

They are "women's heathcare" clinics!

[Hotler]

53. I don't think it's about the procedure, it's about them forcing their warped view of

Christianity and the Old Testament down our throats. Think Dominionism, The theory or doctrine that Christians have a divine mandate to assume positions of power and influence over all aspects of society and government.

Bill Barr was one.
After listening to Amy Coney Barrett I'm going to call her a diminionist also. She's got some cold guts. Protect that fetus and then kick it to the curb once it's born. Go ahead and leave it on some stoop if you don't want it but, you better god damn carry it full term.

[Greybnk48]

56. Indigenous Americans in the past have volunteered to have abortion clinics

on their reservations. We should pursue that option and generous offer. And why not put an abortion clinic in every Native American casino?

Or put temporary abortion clinics (heavy duty tents with heat) on federal land.

My point is, this right wing bullshit should be ignored and treated with disdain, just like they do with our laws.

[DFW]

69. Any time someone tells me they are "Pro-Life" I just tell them flat out, "No, you're not."

I ask, "are you a vegetarian?" The answer is invariably, "no."

I then ask, "are you in favor of the death penalty?" The answer is invariably, "yes."

I answer, "then you are not pro-life. You are pro-death."

They are ALWAYS Republicans, and they ALWAYS whine and complain about my reasoning, which they are nevertheless unable to refute.

[FakeNoose]

71. That's a great way to deal with them

Ask them if they believe in confiscating illegal handguns, they'll probably say "No."

Same thing - they are Pro-death, not Pro-life.

[roamer65]

73. Most will go to states like IL, CA, WA, etc. to get them.

It won’t be like pre-Roe days. It will be worse.

The relations between anti-choice and pro-choice states will get as bad as it was during the 1850’s.

I plan on contributing to organizations that pay travel expenses and for the procedures for women who decide to travel.

[Skittles]

75. it's already worse

think of the women in Texas who can have BOUNTIES put on them

[Skittles]

74. they know that, they DO.NOT.CARE.

they know it will not affect wealthy women