When Roe is overturned, expect OB/GYNs to flee the Red States.

[Girard442]

The logic is brutal: when a pregnant patient is in a crisis (think ectopic pregnancy) a doctor may be forced to choose between terminating the pregnancy and facing law enforcement or comitting malpractice by doing nothing and unnecessarily risking the patient's life.

Better to go practice in a sane state.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

1. Republicans DO NOT CARE about women at all.

Nor are they PRO-LIFE.

[Kath2]

4. So true.

They don't care if women die.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

7. Just as long as they vote for them before they do.

[Sibelius Fan]

9. They are anti-choice.

[Oneironaut]

36. Imo, they have self-loathing moralistic views about sex, which makes them resent women.

Therefore, they feel that, if they can control womens’ bodies and sexuality, it’ll assuage their cognitive dissonance.

Basically, dogma has completely destroyed their minds and made them hateful monsters. They want to punish women because of their own fucked up world view due to the religious child abuse bestowed on them.

Also, plainly, some are just assholes who love spreading misery.

[joshcryer]

48. They only care about whether women have sex or not.

Sex is not permitted for women. It is fucking grotesque.

[Aristus]

2. I have a feeling there is going to be a huge brain-drain in all fields from the red states.

I know that blue voters in red states go into raptures over the low taxes and favorable business legislation. But I wonder if the prospect of getting arrested for doing one's job will get them to change their minds and return to Blue State America.

[traitorsgalore]

29. Most definitely

I posted that a few days ago, that our country will split into red and blue areas whether it be different counties or entire states and the red areas will be horrible places to live.

[Carlitos Brigante]

3. I guess they'll try to replace them with lunatic hacks who'll try to pray any

complications away.

[Claustrum]

5. I can never understand these right to life people that goes into OB/GYN

It's part of the job to save the mother and in some serious cases, that means you have to give up the life of the baby in order to save the mother. But we have someone on this board from such an incident that the doctor rather let the patient bleed out and die rather than doing the necessary procedure to save the mother.

Overall, I think you are right but some of these red state doctors already hold the belief to never perform any abortion even when the patient is dying in front of their eyes. Maybe overall, that's the silver lining to this as you can be more assured that you can get the right treatment in a blue state. I think we all have the expectation that our doctor will do everything to save the patient but it's simply not the reality now.

[evolves]

6. Unlikely.

I'm a Gyn, and most gynecologists do not perform abortions in their practices-- the regulations for "safety" are simply too stringent for most physicians to afford the facilities to do so.

That being said, the landscape will be significantly more difficult, particularly for patients whose fetuses have lethal malformations/conditions.

It is bleak, and this may very well be an issue that precipitates violence in this country. Taking away rights that have been guaranteed for 50 years will not come without significant backlash.

[DENVERPOPS]

20. Being an OB-GYN

I have a question.......Isn't an abortion somewhat akin to a D & C procedure?
I am not educated medically, and not just being a jerk in asking, but asking an honest question....

just wondering about the difference..........and could an OB-GYN perform an abortion and call it a D & C ??????????????

[evolves]

21. Up to the 13th week of pregnancy, it is exactly the same procedure.

D&Cs are done for miscarriages as well as for Gyn indications (abnormal bleeding, for example).

The fact that D&Cs are also done for miscarriages is why some right-wing states are seeking to criminalize miscarriage as well (in my opinion).

PS-- don't think you are being a jerk at all, in fact, quite the opposite. You are asking to be educated about something that you want to understand better; that's admirable, not a sign that you're a jerk.

[DENVERPOPS]

23. Thank you

Fifty years ago, I remember looking through a medical text book on the shelf of a Pediatrician.
It was a color glossary of all the extremely unusual newborns or pre-newborns and the myriad of seriously weird fetuses.
Really very sad and grotesque fetuses? Pictures of Hydrocephalic and Micocepalic, and even weirder stuff.....

Do you know of the OB-GYN in Boulder that does late term terminations purely for the sake of the mother's life?
The anti-abortionists call what he is doing by a non medical term to incite their crowd......He is forced to live a life of nothing but being seriously guarded by professionals......not much different than the Secret Service and a President......

I was in a very wealthy high school before Roe vs Wade. It was commonly talked about when a girl would "suddenly" decide to have a semester abroad studying in any of the Scandinavian countries.

I am thankful that there are intellectual people like you on DU. giving us straightforward scientific or political facts on subjects us readers have questions about......

[evolves]

25. My pleasure.

Last edited Sat Dec 4, 2021, 05:38 PM - Edit history (1)

The term that was quite literally invented by the pro-birth, anti-woman movement is "partial birth abortion." Though I have been practicing for over 25 years, I cannot describe it to you, because it is a procedure that has no medical definition.

It is true that late-term abortions are done almost exclusively for lethal fetal anomalies and for life-threatening maternal conditions. Less thank 2% of all abortions in the US are done after 21 weeks (the midpoint of a pregnancy).

Here is a helpful resource regarding abortion provision in the US:

https://www.guttmacher.org/fact-sheet/induced-abortion-united-states

Abortion will never go away. But if it is criminalized, the wake of disaster-- mental, emotional, physical-- that that criminalization will bring will be enormously wide, not only for women seeking abortion, but for their families and for those who continue to provide abortion.

[PCIntern]

27. Thank you for presenting competence snd clinical realities.

The subtle, arcane stuff doesn’t make it into the movie of the week or the Marcus Welby, MD show. We appreciate your experience and knowledge.

[evolves]

32. You are more than welcome, PC.

I've always enjoyed your posts and perspectives as a fellow healthcare provider.

[DENVERPOPS]

31. Wow

Guttmacher is an incredibly comprehensive summary of history and current status of abortion in the U.S.

Thank you!!!!!!!! I will be forwarding it to much of my email list!

[evolves]

33. Guttmacher is a great resource; glad to be of help!

I used to believe that education was the way to win more hearts and minds over to the side of science and sanity (though I like what Neil DeGrasse Tyson says about science: that it doesn't give a shit whether you believe in it or not). Now, given the past 5-6 years in this country, I don't believe that anymore. There are those who slam the doors of their minds and nail them shut, desperate to keep out any enlightenment, because it is too scary. I've unfortunately come to see that what has always been true is still true: we are a stupid, frightened species huddling up amidst our fears. But then, somehow: Beethoven, Shakespeare, Michaelangelo.
(Yeah, I know they are all dead white dudes...)

[CTyankee]

39. I have learned that so many fetuses diagnosed in utero with Downs Syndrome that you rarely see

them where before abortion was made legal you did. I worked for an organization that helped individuals with developmental disabilities, ran a sheltered workshop for them.

Personally, if that happened in one of my 3 pregnancies I would not want to bring the pregnancy to term.

[joshcryer]

50. Richard Dawkins got in trouble for saying that.

But I believe that is information that is valid toward any womans choice just as many other factors. I respect that.

[DBoon]

52. So wouldn't performing a D&C leave a Gyn open to the charge of conducting abortions?

Even is pregnancy termination is not part of their usual business, wouldn't there be legal (and reputational) risks in conducting normal procedures in a red state?

[joshcryer]

49. Since you wouldn't necessarily have the facilities...

...what would you do if the facilities no longer existed in your state? Send the patient to the ER? I think the OP's point still stands because an ER doctor may not perform a necessary procedure.

I think that lives are going to be sacrificed to get this changed (similar as to how Ireland overturned the abortion outlaw after Savita Halappanavar's unnecessary death).

[WhiskeyGrinder]

8. This already happens now.

[Runningdawg]

10. We have a lot of evangelical OB-GYNs in OK

Hospitals won't discipline them for refusing to care for patients with an ectopic. They pass them on to the next Dr in line and call it good. But this move will embolden the religiously affiliated hospitals and they may refuse to admit ANY women with a suspected ectopic or in the midst of what MIGHT be a miscarriage. Ambulances may refuse to transport them. OK has already tried several times to give first responders and emergency medical personnel the right to NOT treat LGBTQ or their children. This is their logical next step.

[Bettie]

13. So, even more women will die

I'd hope that corporations wouldn't want to stay in states that willfully kill women....but not a whole lot of hope.

[Freddie]

15. When a women dies from an ectopic in this circumstance

It has to be made FRONT PAGE NEWS. Allowing a woman to die when it can be easily prevented is the height of immorality. Way too often this kind of crap is happening already and kept quiet.

[evolves]

22. This is already happening.

Check out this documentary that came out in 2017. Things are about to get much worse than depicted here...

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6091028/

https://cinemasiren.com/cinema-siren/birthright-war-story-review-interview-director-award-winning-journalist-civia-tamarkin-writer-producer-luchina-fisher/

https://www.birthrightfilm.com

[Delmette2.0]

47. I will be watching this documentary.

Birthright is the name of the film.

[evolves]

51. Thanks for adding that info

It is an excellent and infuriating film.

[DENVERPOPS]

24. through the years

I have often wondered what was the use of having a state like Oklahoma and why would anyone want to live there for ANY reason???

[jmowreader]

30. Oil and cheap rangeland for cattle grazing

They also have manufacturing because of low regulations and affordable land.

[DENVERPOPS]

42. And a barren land

to transplant the Native Americans

[pinkstarburst]

40. There are tens of thousands of people who are

leaving blue states for red states every year because even though what's happening to women's rights is so abhorrent, the reality of what's happening to the cost of living in many blue states puts many young people and families in a position where there is no way they will ever be able to afford a home in the places they might ideally prefer to live.

Will this one day shift some of those states and cause them to become more purple? Maybe?

But there are lots of people in OK who cannot afford to move to somewhere more expensive. It's not so simple as just saying oh, everyone will just move.

[Runningdawg]

46. I have no family of my own. Hubby has LOTS of family and they are all here.

In this day and age I am lucky to have a family who all genuinely likes each other. And I suspect the reason most don't leave OK who would like to is economic. Red or Blue this is a state of poor people.

[milestogo]

28. In my home town there was an OB-GYN practice with 3 Catholic doctors.

They had a total of 30 children amongst them.

At my 10 year reunion some women were discussing how wonderful these doctors are because they don't do abortions. However, all of these women also went to other doctors to get contraception.

I couldn't wrap my mind around it. You want your baby delivered by a Catholic doctor, but you don't want him to know that you are using artificial means of contraception prescribed by another doctor. Lying to your doctor seems like it would be dangerous.

[DENVERPOPS]

44. Doctors playing

pick and choose among their patients who they will treat and how based on religious beliefs, would be no different than firefighters for instance, deciding they will only fight fires in Christian Churches. The same for Pharmacists who choose what medications they will dispense based on their religious beliefs........

[milestogo]

45. Well in this case the patients are choosing the doctors because they are Catholic

and I would presume that any woman who goes there would know that they don't do abortions or refer for abortions.

[no_hypocrisy]

11. 1. Will women move to blue states?

2. Will some corporations move to blue states?
3. Or will the populations of the red states incrementally acquiesce to their new reality?

[Mad_Machine76]

12. 4. Will the populations start ridding of themselves of Republicans

Republicans can gerrymander and fine tune the voting rules as much as they want, but there may eventually be a critical mass of both Democratic AND Republican voters whom get fed enough to at least toss out the extremists pushing these laws and restoring some kind of sanity to their states. Overturning and outlawing Roe (and if they continue on their destructive path of going after more and more individual rights like birth control) could be the catalyst for throwing a lot of Republicans out of office (one would hope)

[marie999]

16. I think of politics as a pendulum. It can only go so far to the left or right.

[Mad_Machine76]

26. I tend to believe same

It can only go so far one way or another before it slaps one side or another- although it seems like we have never actually gotten anywhere near "too far left" in recent years.

[CTyankee]

37. BRAIN DRAIN is what will happen. Talent will flee. Red states will realize they can't attract high

quality people for their schools, universities, corporations, medical professionals, teachers. When all this talent dries up they will find out their folly.

[pinkstarburst]

41. I don't see any of these three as likely

What we are currently seeing right now with regards to 1-2 is actually the opposite. People and corporations are both leaving blue states in order to move to red states because of tax breaks and because of high COL in many of the coastal cities. There have been housing cost spikes in Texas, Idaho, Tennessee, Arizona, Missouri... in red states all over the country due to people fleeing other places where they cannot afford housing) and moving to new states where they can afford housing.

What I hope might happen is that as more people move from the coastal cities and spread out into the red states, they may cause those red states to turn purple and eventually blue, but that may take time.

[SunSeeker]

14. Come to CA. We love doctors, and liberty. nt

[onenote]

17. Before Roe there were OB/GYNs practicing in states

That prohibited abortion.

There are plenty of OB/GYNs who don’t perform abortions.

[WarGamer]

35. I'd say 95%+ of OB/GYN don't perform abortions.

[58Sunliner]

18. Horrific.

[Submariner]

19. Some big businesses packing up and moving to a blue state would send a message

but maybe these fascists just don't care anymore.

[WarGamer]

34. From personal experience...

A friend relayed to me that even in Blue States only a small percentage of OB/GYN perform abortions.

[nolabear]

38. Malpractice insurance is going to be a nightmare.

They just won’t want the trouble of dealing with potential suits and investigations. The excuse to charge massive fees is just too seductive.

[Takket]

43. the women should flee too.........

you might actually see something of a serious migration in the USA over this. States where freedom to control your body still exists could actually use this as a legit recruiting tool to convince women to move there, and vice-versa i suppose of anti-choice fascists moving to red states.