Serious question - does the catholic church penalize men who have

[malaise]

vasectomies?
Asking for a friend.

[LiberatedUSA]

1. It isn't about a care of life.

It is about wanting to control women. The pro life blather is just the cover.

[eShirl]

2. there's a vas deferens between vasectomy and no vasectomy

I'll show myself out...

[LastDemocratInSC]

7. That's a good one!

[Bettie]

48. That shouldn't be as funny as it is

and it is VERY funny.

Still chuckling! Thank you!

[Progressive Jones]

49. LOL ! You Win The Internet !!! nt

[Tetrachloride]

3. I have never heard of a "religious" complaint on vasectomies.

if i have, it’s forgotten by everyone

[eShirl]

4. maybe if they considered it Onanism?

"spilling of seed"
every sperm is sacred, etc

[Comfortably_Numb]

6. Except for "spilling seed" in alter boys. That gets you a new job and the protection of the entire

Roman Catholic Church leadership.

[hlthe2b]

5. Mixed: (from 1977)

Does Catholic Church allow vasectomies?
ROME, Aug. 5 (AP) — The Vatican declared today that men who have had vasectomies can enter valid marriages. ... The document also leaves unchanged the church's condemnation of the use of vasectomies as a means of birth control. Vasectomies are sometimes performed for medical reasons and not for purposes of birth control.

Not surprisingly, the official view dating to 1987 on in-vitro fertilization:

The Catholic Church believes that IVF is never acceptable because it removes conception from the marital act and because it treats a baby as a product to be manipulated, violating the child's integrity as a human being with an immortal soul from the moment of conception (Donum Vitae 1987).

While I am not Catholic, I can only say that, unlike the RW fundy protestant churches who adopted abortion as their "poster issue" for political reasons and before the alignment with the Republican party never even HAD a position on abortion, my understanding is that Catholocism has been consistent on the issue.

That said, I don't think there is any attempt to "penalize" men who have vasectomies (nor really, an overt attempt to go after women given medical privacy) except, perhaps to instill "guilt" in the confessional...

[Tomconroy]

9. It should be noted for the record that the Catholic Church is

consistent on its opposition to the death penalty


https://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/en/bollettino/pubblico/2018/08/02/180802a.html

[hlthe2b]

11. Yup. Agree or disagree on their positions, at least they are consistent.

[gab13by13]

13. So the church believes that vasectomies

are sometimes performed for medical reasons and not for the reason of birth control, but doesn't believe that sometimes abortions are performed for medical reasons and not for the reason of birth control. Got it.

[House of Roberts]

15. Or that birth control pills are sometimes

prescribed for medical reasons?

If the end result of Catholic reproductive doctrine wouldn't overpopulate the planet past stability, I could understand how they feel about it. Trouble is, there's just too mucking fany people here already, for the planet to sustain.

[FBaggins]

33. Neither is correct

The RCC does indeed allow medications that would otherwise be birth control drugs for other medical reasons and allows abortions for things like ectopic pregnancies.

I’m not sure whether there is a similar non-birth-control use for vasectomies, but I’d bet that they would allow the procedure in those circumstances if there are.

[iemanja]

43. I went to Catholic school

and was taught there about condoms. I remember the teacher's passing them around for us to inspect. I don't believe it was a nun that gave the lesson, but they certainly knew it was happening.

[sarisataka]

45. My Catholic school sex ed class began:

"The teaching of the Church is that sexual intercourse is for the purpose of procreation between a man and woman who are legally married in the eyes of God.





You all know however the world doesn't always follow this ideal so we will discuss somethings that you may encounter. "

We then proceeded with a trimester of sex-ed that was more in depth and comprehensive than what my friends at public schools received. Birth control, abortion, STDs, homosexuality, sexual violence, nothing was off the table.

[AngryOldDem]

8. It's considered a sin that must be confessed and repented...

…in order to receive the sacraments. Any method that prevents procreation is a sin, especially those that involve altering the body. The Church needs to butt the fuck out of personal decisions like this. If people’s consciences are that bothered about it, there are ways to fix it that don’t involve a middleman.

[gab13by13]

17. The Catholic church is all about guilt.

Catholics are born with sin. For the longest of times the Catholic church's doctrine was that non-baptized babies who died ended up in a place called Limbo instead of heaven. The church did eventually change that doctrine.

[AngryOldDem]

21. Actually...

…the company line on unbaptized babies who die is that they are considered to be “entrusted to the mercy of God” or some such ambiguous language that, to me, neither really confirms nor denies where they go.

I left the Church over bullying, mean, needless, and hurtful doctrine like this.

And it wonders why it’s a dying institution.

[Freddie]

10. My devout Catholic friend found a loophole

She decided she was done having kids after 2 so her husband got a vasectomy. She said it was not a sin because he’s not Catholic, so it wasn’t a sin to him and she can’t help what he does.

[AngryOldDem]

14. That's correct.

He’s not part of the “club”. Now, if he wanted to convert, he would have to confess it and get absolution.

[Freddie]

18. I found her reasoning pretty amusing

“She can’t help what he does” although she’s the one who talked him into it.

[malaise]

16. Ha

Patriarchy rules

[exboyfil]

26. She is living in a state of sin and is going to burn in hell for it

The Catholic church doesn't recognize her marriage.

Just joking of course.

[Freddie]

30. They were married in the Church

And he “signed the papers” so their kids would he raised Catholic, but he never converted to Catholicism himself. That still makes the marriage “valid”, correct?

[rownesheck]

12. I have a friend who is

hard core catholic (only after marrying his hard core catholic wife). He did the whole conversion thing. A few years ago he got a vasectomy. We don't talk much, but if he ever brings up abortion in a conversation, I'll ask why its ok for him to have a vasectomy. I'm sure there'll be some made up horseshit answer, just like all their other shit.

[malaise]

24. Let us know his answer

[Freddie]

19. It's only female bodies that need to be controlled

Like abortion, you’d think men had nothing to do with it.

[malaise]

20. Women are murdered every year for not having abortions

Lots of men who hate condoms do not want children

[Freddie]

22. The #1 cause of death in pregnant women is homicide

Usually by the baby daddy.

[malaise]

23. Precisely

[exboyfil]

25. My medical group was owned by one Catholic organization

which sold it to another Catholic organization. The new one eliminated several of the reproductive health specialties including vascetomy. This ticked me off because it messed with the doctor's practice who performed my vascetomy. He is a great doctor who made me feel comfortable during the procedure (I have never had any type of surgery), and I had no complications.

I know it is nothing like what women go through in limiting their reproductive choices, but it definitely made me mad. I can only imagine how women must feel.

[malaise]

27. Interesting post

Thanks for this

[cbabe]

42. Catholic control of medical centers/hospitals is

increasing. 41% of WA hospital beds are Catholic controlled, and rising.

This means local Bishop makes medical policy.

This includes women’s health and end of life.

Swedish and Virginia Mason are major medical centers that have come under Church control. Also many smaller rural/small town hospitals,

UW Medical Center and clinics are state institutions and remain free from religion takeover threat.

[exboyfil]

28. The ironic thing is that in the Old Testament

If the husband suspects the child his wife is carrying is not his, the Lord commands she consume bitter waters which would cause an abortion if it in fact is not his.

Numbers 5.

[malaise]

29. Selective (mis)interpretation of that book works for them

all the time

[Ferrets are Cool]

35. One of the best lines ever.

[malaise]

36. Just the truth

[hunter]

31. If they expelled all the heretics from the Church the pews would be nearly empty.

Big families used to be common in church, now they reflect family sizes of the U.S. population in general.

Small families don't happen by magic or by any form of "natural" family planning.

My wife and I both come from large families and our parents were praised for it in church.

They quit having children and became advocates for birth control when they realized they had more children than they could comfortably support. In my mom's case the doctors told her that having another child would be dangerous, but I don't think she used that as a get-out-of-jail-free card since she was an advocate of birth control and realistic sex advice not only for her children, but the children of relatives, friends, and neighbors as well. Our house was also a safe haven for LGBTQ people.

That's one reason our house was off limits to some of the neighborhood kids with very conservative religious parents, but teenagers will find a way.

Overall, my wife and I and our siblings have averaged less than two children each. Those of us who still attend church haven't been kicked out yet.

[malaise]

34. Great post

My deeply Catholic mother had fifteen pregnancies -seven of us survived- That said when I told her I was using birth control pills, she suggested that I advise my youngest sister on the subject.

[Progressive Jones]

50. Yeah, there were 3 of us kids.

My Mother had 11 pregnancies. She eventually snuck behind the Popes' back
and had a hysterectomy. She went to the same Jewish-run hospital where we were all born.

[Elessar Zappa]

32. They count it as a sin

if the reason for the vasectomy is not a medical necessity. Most Catholics ignore church doctrine anyway.

[malaise]

37. How would they know if it's medical or not

Most people make decisions based on resources not religion.

[Elessar Zappa]

38. It's all ridiculous.

I like this pope ok but I’m disappointed he hasn’t liberalized the church attitude toward contraception. I’m not a big fan of organized religion.

[malaise]

39. I'm not a fan of any religion

My faith is in the laws of nature

[Elessar Zappa]

40. ...

[Norbert]

41. The 6th commandment is Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultry

The nuns and lay teachers would never elaborate on that. I wonder why.

[Mr.Bill]

44. If men got pregnant,

abortion would be a sacrament in the Catholic church.

[malaise]

51. Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Yuh thin?

[KentuckyWoman]

46. It can be.

An acquaintance in the 60's had 5 kids in 4 years (twins twice). She was understandably worn out. They had no money. We lived in a small town in eastern Kentucky with one catholic church anywhere close by. The priest told her if they used any form of birth control it would be grounds for excommunication. So her husband, who converted only because he loved her, went to Lexington and got snipped. Somehow the priest found out and refused him communion. The husband could care less honestly.

I don't think people share their reproductive concerns with priests much anymore, but I don't believe the position of the church has changed.

[malaise]

52. Thanks

Interesting

[crickets]

47. K&R for the post and the discussion.