Young Democrats are right: There is no reason to date or befriend Trump voters

[Nevilledog]

Link to tweet

https://www.salon.com/2021/12/08/young-democrats-are-right-there-is-no-reason-to-date-or-befriend/

You have to give it to Axios: They know how to throw out some tasty bait. Their latest is irresistible for conservatives, who love any story that frames them as victims, and gives them the chance to blame the left for "incivility." Never mind obvious counter-examples such as the storming of the Capitol, gun-waving Christmas cards, and the entire person of Donald Trump.

"Young Dems more likely to despise the other party," blares Tuesday's Axios headline, noting in the article that "5% of Republicans said they wouldn't be friends with someone from the opposite party, compared to 37% of Democrats," and "71% of Democrats wouldn't go on a date with someone with opposing views, versus 31% of Republicans."

Unsurprisingly, this delicious bait worked exactly as intended, at least in social media reactions.

On the right, there was a lot of trumpeting how this supposedly proves the left are the ones who are "really" intolerant. Radio talker Matt Murphy whined that liberals "don't believe in our republic cannot abide people who think differently than them." As if not getting to have sex with or go to parties with liberals is exactly the same as having your basic rights as a citizen stripped from you.

"This doesn't bode well," complained GOP lawyer and ABC commentator Sarah Isgur, who previously defended the Trump administration's policy of separating families at the U.S.-Mexico border as a former spokesperson in the Justice Department.

*snip*

[TheRealNorth]

1. Well, given personal experience, Democrats are more likely to be civil in a date....

Compared to Republicans, who think referring to

[ColinC]

2. If this country has any hope, this advice should probably not be taken too seriously.

[brush]

5. Nah, see post 3. That party has become toxic.

[TheRealNorth]

6. Why should someone date someone that doesn't respect their thoughts or beliefs....

We wouldn't say Christians MUST date people outside of their religion. That's a personal decision.

[ColinC]

11. My statement is geared more towards the "socializing" side of the argument.

"dating" a Trumplican would probably require a kink that I will certainly not judge -even if it isn't for me personally...

[Voltaire2]

73. Go friend a Nazi.

Then ask yourself why.

[ColinC]

85. You responded to my post about it, but didn't seem to read past my typo

[brush]

3. They're absolutely right. Socializing/dating republicans now...

is equivalent back in the day to dating/socializing with klan members. That's what the republican party has become.

[iemanja]

4. Agreed

There are essential values that cannot be broached.
I find it impossible to respect a Trump supporter, and relationships of any kind can't survive without respect.

[ColinC]

8. I imagine that if no non klan socialized with klan members back in the day, we would probably still

have them around in far larger numbers. I think the key to neutralizing radicalism is through acceptance and love (of the person not the evils they embrace), as opposed to exclusion and hate of the individuals. The alternative, I imagine, is another civil war.

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544861933/how-one-man-convinced-200-ku-klux-klan-members-to-give-up-their-robes

[Torchlight]

13. Karl Popper has disproved the notion that tolerating intolerance is just and honorable

The Myth of the Framework: In Defence of Science and Rationality

~Karl Popper~

[ColinC]

14. You don't have to tolerate a person's intolerance to love that person.

edit to add: A person is far more than the hate or evils they embrace.

[Torchlight]

15. I never argued as such.

Thus, your unsupported assertion is wasted on me.

[ColinC]

16. I never argued that you should tolerate intolerance

Which is my point. The above statement was clarifying my argument, not rebutting yours.

[Torchlight]

18. Your initial assertion suggests that very thing

[ColinC]

19. Which is why i clarified that accepting a human being is not the same as accepting their intolerance

[Torchlight]

20. Enabling a thing is just as efficient as accepting as thing

[ColinC]

21. Was Daryl Davis enabling?

He embraced the human beings for their humanity, and converted 200 klansmen as a result.

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544861933/how-one-man-convinced-200-ku-klux-klan-members-to-give-up-their-robes

[Torchlight]

22. Examples never replace data.

Is your example a statistical standard or an statistical deviation?

Look, I get people want to be perceived as accepting of intolerance. That's great. For you. For me, tolerating hatred and bigotry would be little more than self-righteous sanctimony. So befriend who you want-- no one is denying you that.

[ColinC]

23. Actually the article is absolutely saying you shouldn't befriend who you want.

Which is kinda my point.

[Torchlight]

24. And articles and suggestions control neither of our lives.

Nor deny us our desires... whatever they may be

They are merely suggestions (dictionary.com may assist).








Thanks. Have a wonderful day and keep on keepin' on!

[ColinC]

25. Agreed. As my original point stands: We probably shouldn't take

such advice too seriously.

[Torchlight]

27. I'll take it seriously regardless.

I find it a sound suggestion that no one has countered in a reasonable and rational manner.

[ColinC]

32. The argument in itself is not rational or reasonable

[2Gingersnaps]

45. It has a different context for a woman.

And I speak from personal experience. When the prospective date is "Born a Lutheran, lived a Lutheran, and will die one" and his idea of "faith" is that Patriarchy permits him to be king of his castle and a women be obedient and subservient to him-he just must find a woman "intolerant" if she is not okay with surrendering her autonomy to his whim.

Besides the general proposition that women are second class citizens, which is still widely held in some quarters, I objected to the idea that he could believe anything reported in the press about Hillary, and absolutely nothing that was a matter of public record in the Courts of New York State concerning Trump. And when I asked him how he reconciled his Christian values with Trumps character, I would have to prove it to him. Court records notwithstanding.

And then there was the team sport fandom, I give two shits about team sports, I loved my late husband enough to be amused by his rabid Cleveland Browns "religion," and he loved me enough to not force it on me when I could enjoy mowing the yard or shovelling the driveway more. OSU is the second religion of Ohio with my high school bud, and people like him. And then there was the Tim Allen thing-what my old high school bud found knee slapping funny....I found an utter bore.

So yeah, he found me intolerant. But then, he had no idea exactly how incompatible we were, I am a confirmed Deist, and I did not give up my personal autonomy to a good and kind man, and he never asked me to, or just assumed I would.

I miss my friends terribly, the one I married and lost, and the one who grew into something I never would have believed when we were young. I hear Afghanistan has the highest birth rate in the world, that is the kind of patriarchy he can relate too, not me.

[ColinC]

51. What an absolutely beautiful testimony

My thoughts are more in the "socializing" and even "Safe distance" frame of things. But we are in a bit of a culture war, where I imagine cutting ourselves off from large segments of society (or vice versa) may be leading to far greater consequences than could be afforded.

I don't mean to disregard the other stark reality being certain levels of intimacy with Trumplicans and their ilk have become virtually impossible for many of our own emotional -and perhaps physical, health.

[brush]

40. Do you hear yourself? Who want to be near an evil person who hates.

Time to re-examine. Where are your principles that you would put up with that?

[ColinC]

41. Again. The unwillingness to separate an evil action or mindset with an individual is where we

strongly disagree.

[brush]

48. Absolutely. Give me an example of how you've befriended evil racists...

and how it turned out.

[ColinC]

55. The best I can do is this. My best friend is essentially a Trumplican

Last edited Thu Dec 9, 2021, 01:14 PM - Edit history (1)

He believes 90% of the things that comes out of Joe Rogan, and even that horrible POS Stefan Molyneaux (ie: evil racist), etc including the ideas that race and IQ have a strong correlation, etc. He is also black. We get into it quite often, and acknowledge our divergent views can be difficult for the relationship. We have other things in common of course, and he is essentially a brother.

There have been major points where I have convinced him away from propaganda-influenced BS: man-made climate change, the myth that there is no racial disparity in police killings, etc.

Sometimes, for my own physical and emotional health, I need to keep a safe distance but I do strongly believe that our friendship has often been one of the only things that hasn't completely took him over the edge.

[brush]

57. Good for you. I don't have time for that aggravation. Life is too short.

[ColinC]

58. Understandable.

[ColinC]

84. Joe. Yeah Seth didn't deserve that...

Fixed

[uponit7771]

61. Some people are not threatened by MAGA

[brush]

68. I see that. Don't get though. They're out to end our democracy and install a stong man.

An idiot, criminal strong man at that.

[stopdiggin]

63. Karl Popper 'disproved' nothing

As influential philosopher of science, Popper offered theories. And the fact that he has become an internet meme (complete with little cartoons) for dilettantes - is a savage fate undeserved.

[brush]

37. I don't accept racism (you shouldn't either) so no thanks. But good luck with that.

[ColinC]

39. Still a stark difference between accepting a human being and accepting racism.

My comment in no way suggests or said that you should accept racism. Only if you think the racist and their racism are one and the same is where we may differ.

[brush]

43. Carity in thinking is wonderful thing. Try it sometime.

Coddling and accepting evil and racism in people is what has happened to the republican party. The Boeberts, Greenes and Gosars have taken over.

But you do you, and again, good luck with that.

[ColinC]

44. Clarity in thinking would acknowledge the false dichotomy

of us vs them. It is far more complicated than most people choose to acknowledge.

[brush]

52. I choose to live in the real world and I abide by Maya Angeloou's advice...

"When someone shows you who they are, believe them." And republicans are showing us constantly (see Boebert's recent attacks against Rep. Omar.

Come back to planet Earth.

[ColinC]

56. Yeah. You've called me delusional in more ways than one.

But the reality in my opinion is that if every person that fits this profile is as evil as you assume, society would be far worse off than it is.

[brush]

59. You said the word delusional, not I.

Last edited Wed Dec 8, 2021, 08:49 PM - Edit history (1)

[ColinC]

60. I'm not offended.

And I understand why you see it that way, I just strongly disagree.

[uponit7771]

62. How can you tell your friend is not racist? thx in advance

[ColinC]

64. I think it is more complicated than that

He might very well be a racist. But then again, many folks who are not MAGA or even likeminded liberals, can also fall into a less overt form of racism. None of this, in my opinion, means a person is inherently evil. Ignorant for sure, but "evil" is subject to intentions that you can't necessarily decode based on an ignorant belief.

[uponit7771]

67. +1, got it ... sounds like your whole picture of this person is more than what faults are. I know ..

... people who are racially ignorant but not racially malicious like Trump.

[ColinC]

72. Thank you!

I definitely think we are all far more than one action or set of beliefs. For instance, I can name certain trump supporters who have done far more for the common good (My grandmother who spent the entire last half of her life visiting shut-ins) than certain liberals (maybe Harvey Weinstein?).

And yes, my grandmother was definitely racially ignorant, but absolutely not malicious.

[Voltaire2]

76. A person espousing racism is a racist.

They are entangled. You cannot honestly separate them. I suppose you might be able to persuade your racist friends to see the error of their ways and to stop being racists, but until their conversion they are racists espousing racism.

Anyhow good luck. Lots of well intentioned people tried to sort this out with the MAGATs they knew after 2016, as far as I know, hardly anyone succeeded.

[FelineOverlord]

71. I hate them

They want to destroy us. They want a right-wing white supremacist fascist authoritarian dictatorship.

They are literally passing laws to make our votes not count.

They can rot in hell.

[Voltaire2]

74. If only we were nicer to the Nazis they

wouldn’t have tried to exterminate us.

[ColinC]

82. Definitely not my point. But thanks for missing it :)

[RevBrotherThomas]

78. Thank you for the article. nt

[Torchlight]

9. Ha! My sister said that to me over Thanksgiving.

Persnickety ol' grandad was miffed she told a trumper to take a hike after just one date back in Sept., and she asked him "do you really want your granddaughter dating a klansman?"

He realized he couldn't answer her truthfully without looking even worse (and the picture I took of his face at that moment is gong to be the front of the Christmas card I send out this year, closely beating out a shot of my gf flipping me off after she hit her funny bone)

[ecstatic]

7. How can you be friends with someone whose beliefs disgust you?

I don't associate with deplorable people (other than coworkers and customers, lol). Period.

[MagickMuffin]

10. Well the women should definitely not date the PB or any of the other incels

They'd be raped before the date was over.

[nattyice]

33. But not in Texas. Gov. Abbot is making sure there are no rapists in his state

[Cha]

12. I agree.. I don't do

Fascist Cults.. don't want to be around them.

[doc03]

26. I am old 73 and I don't care to associate with Republicans. I never had that problem

before Trump. We could disagree and discus things without arguing. But now if you are around a
Republican they always have to make some political comment and living in Ohio it is impossible to avoid.
I do not want to be around anyone that can justify January 6th. One on one they are easy to shut down but they
stay quiet until you are outnumbered then shout over you so you can't make a point. Just like when you see a
Democrat on Fox News they don't let them get a word in.

[TheRealNorth]

28. Exactly

You can no longer be around these people without them making some sort of over the top political comment. Their politics is wrapped up in their identity.

[doc03]

31. I don't talk to my oldest friend other than a few words anymore. After January 6th he

said he was no longer going to shop at Kroger because somehow they offended the My Pillow guy.
I don't care where he shops but I don't want to associate with anyone that believes the My Pillow Guy and
Q Anon.

[hatrack]

77. In a nutshell. They never shut up, ever. They can't.

Every moment I spend with in-laws (not total foaming Trumpers, but within a razor's edge of it) is spent waiting for them to trot them out - the lies, the memes, the bullshit, the "libtards".

They can't stop. It's like a toddler sticking out his tongue, or a libertarian in HS debate class - got to, Got To, GOT TO WIN. WIN!!!! with that last stinging, irrefutable quip. The fact that they've anti-vax and unvaccinated is just the final coffin nail.

Consequently, I don't spend time with them any more.

[Random Boomer]

93. And there you have it

This isn't just about political party affiliation, it's about character. The kind of people who are drawn to the modern-day version of the Republican party are not charming people. They are not generous, gracious or kind.

Some of my co-workers (I live in a deep red state) still maintain they are Republicans, but they loathe Trump and they were appalled by Jan. 6th. I'm not sure why they cling to the Republican label because at least one of them confessed to me that he voted for Biden (I suspect all of them did). They are decent men who I have worked with for over a decade, and I still consider them friends because they act like decent men by rejecting Trump/MAGA.

Some of my in-laws are Trump supporters. This is no surprise because they weren't ever nice people. They are rigid, dogmatic, condescending and racist. My wife and I have been avoiding them as much as possible for decades. Their MAGA enthusiasm just confirms what we already knew.

[NewHendoLib]

29. 66 here and never knowingly associating with repubs ever again

[Maine Abu El Banat]

30. They crossed a line

And can never make it right.

[bucolic_frolic]

34. They must be shunned, isolated, deprived of our support

There must be self-respect for ourselves, and consequences for willful insanity.

[BowDown]

35. Goebbels News channel

Please stop calling Fox a news channel and call them what they are. The Goebbels News channel.

[ShazzieB]

70. Personally, I usually call it Fux News.

Or Faux News, or Faux Noise, or Fox Noise, or...you get the idea.

Totally agree that no matter what you call it, it's not an actual news channel.

[spooky3]

36. Marcotte is right - great article. Thanks for posting. nt

[hadEnuf]

38. Yes Republicans, it's true:

we think you suck and are a bunch of assholes. We don't cuddle up to abusers and to traitors like you. It's absurd of you to think that we would.

You've made it crystal that you hate our guts. Now you're upset that we won't go on a date with you?

[Caliman73]

42. Conservatives will typically misinterpret a situation to their advantage.

Would I date a conservative? Maybe 20 years ago, when many of the differences were about policy. "How much government is too much?" "What exactly should the 'free market' solve versus government help?" and the like.

With the radicalization of the right and the emergence of Trump as the face of the Conservative movement, there has been a fundamental shift from policy discussion to one of human values.

My suspicion is that Conservatives say they would date Liberals more readily than the opposite is because they are fundamentally unaware or don't consider what Liberal values are or that they know, and understand that there isn't anything fundamentally wrong with them.

Liberals on the other hand, see what Republicans say, and vote for and against and it is fundamentally an affront to any kind of compassion, responsibility, and social welfare.

The ideas of Liberals, other than on social issues like LGBTQ rights, haven't really changed much over the last 50 years. What the Republican party and Conservatives stand for has become meaner and more narrowed.

On the issue of tolerance, again, the Conservative mind does not appear to be capable of nuance. There is a tolerance of differing values. For people who are anti-abortion, we disagree, but as long as you make your choice to carry your fetus to term and let others make a different choice, that is fine. It is when you start trying to impose religious values and stopping access to women to healthcare and bodily autonomy that we have a problem. Tolerance for that is not applicable. Also, if I don't tolerate the views of Neo Nazis, who literally want to kill or banish people like me, that is not "intolerance" and if it is, then it is ACCEPTABLE to be intolerant of that view point. If Nazis want to move into their little "Citadels" in Idaho and get out of people's way, then fine, but they are tying again, to impose an abhorrent viewpoint on a vast majority of people who rejected it in the 1930's and 40's and reject it now.

A republic can certainly abide differing viewpoints. What it cannot abide is when the vicious, nasty, and exclusive viewpoints of one small but loud and well funded group are imposed over the majority with the intentions of making the majority into servants of a small group of elites. That is what right wingers want to do.

Liberals do not want to make everyone gay or trans, or atheists. They just want those groups of people to be allowed to live in a way that is comparable to the dignity that other groups receive. If there were groups of gay people or trans people that were trying to MAKE people turn gay, trans, etc... then those groups would be opposed. Conservatives believe that including those groups and not oppressing them means giving them dominance, which is ridiculous.

[Ford_Prefect]

46. I can't speak for young Dems since I'm an older one and I remember when the GOP had a few civil

members who believed in the common good when it came to it. I also see no value whatever in trying to reach out to the current GQP party or voters. They are as TOXIC as any junkie or serial abuser.

Was up to me I'd export them to an island somewhere, hopefully where the tide line is rising. They are rapidly becoming a material threat to the entire planet along with American Democracy. I don't advocate violent response to them but we're reaching a point where that may be all that is left.

[tulipsandroses]

47. Well, there's always porn and video games

Josh Hawley will just have to let go of the idea of freeing them from porn and video games.

[NoMoreRepugs]

49. This old Democrat agrees with our young Democrats.

I have no contact with the majority of my family and former conservative friends, they all just kept going farther and farther to the BatShitCrazedLoon right.

[Evolve Dammit]

50. Who would want to interact with a sick, brainwashed cultist? Yewww.

[dchill]

53. I believe the MAGATs have contracted a brain infection...

...that is turning out to be contagious. A must to avoid - contact can only make you dumber.

[PJMcK]

54. It's been quite a while since I was a young Democrat

But as an older Democrat, I understand this on several levels.

First, I have consciously abandoned a number of friendships because of their right-leaning political and social views.

Second, my 25-year old son has told me anecdotes about his experiences and those of his friends. They support this idea and it gives me hope for future generations.

Last, there are quite a few younger folks that I work with and I’ve been told tales that echo this sentiment.

Simply, if you’re a Republican, you’re selfish, greedy, lack empathy and you’re a hypocrite. Who could trust someone like that?!

[BobTheSubgenius]

65. Even here in Victoria, a reliably liberal town that has elected both socialist and Green candidates,

I know Trump supporters. It really surprised me, but even more, it saddened and embarrassed me. Anyway,

One of them is so tolerant of liberal dissent that, during an argument with a friend of mine, he threw a billiard ball at him. Fortunately, his throwing arm is as unreliable as his judgment.

[bigendian]

69. I will get heat for this.

When I “date” a trump supporter the relationship has another aspect in the bedroom. Passions are passions.

[Jimbo S]

79. I'm 55

so not a young Democrat.

I won't date a conservative. Never have, never will. Our basic core values just aren't in sync.

However, I know conservatives I consider friends or acquaintances. Either from growing up together, work, or activities. I'm a distance runner / triathlete which are often misunderstood / disrespected by society. This leads to strong bond amongst ourselves, so we have each other's backs which transcends politics.

[CrispyQ]

80. How can one's opinion of someone NOT change, when they support the likes of Trump?

And the Republican Party is now the party of Trump. Character matters. It upsets me that I have friends & family who still identify as republican.

[NurseJackie]

81. I don't know how politically-mixed couples do it... not in today's hostile climate.

[LizBeth]

83. Last 4 yrs they showed us they were racist, misogynists, embraced lies.

Not character I hang with. Both my 20 something sons wouldn't either.

[Tommymac]

86. I dated a Bush supporter in the early 1990's

Didn't realize at first she was a Bush bunny. Then one night at her apartment she exclaimed out loud after watching the news that she absolutely adored President H.W. Bush - thought he was grandfatherly and cuddly.

I made my excuses and left early. I never saw her again after that night. Quite simply I could not get aroused by her anymore - instead she made me nauseous.

RW Conservatism, 1% control, and Racism is antithetical to the survival of the species. Especially now with Climate Change rearing it's head.

If we don't put a lid on it now and restrain it, the species is doomed in the not so long run. Just my opinion.

[Polybius]

87. I'll date anyone that's the right age that I find attractive and fun

I don't care about politics when dating.

[garybeck]

88. my profile on dating websites states clearly:

No Trumpsters
No Anti-vaxxers
No Republicans

Now that we've gotten past that....

[Philosophizing Fool]

89. Troublesome

Seemingly indicates that the young members of our party have some prejudices towards Republicans. I know that Republicans are some sort of evil demons intent on destroying all that is good with the world but we all know, deep down, that most people, regardless of political, religious, or other beliefs are generally good folks, just seeing things differently.

The anger and hate more of us are experiencing is unhealthy, in body and mind. Indeed it may consume us all if allowed to fester. Getting Trump out of office was going to release our rage, instead we seem angrier than before. Let's be joyful and take small victories with grace and view our occasional beatings as strengthening instead of as a personal insult.

[FrankTC]

90. I Dated a Cannibal

I dated a cannibal. Obviously I didn’t agree with her dietary preferences. But she had a fun sense of humor and was great in bed. Yeah, she killed and ate people, and I’m not a fan. I believe in the dignity and worth of all human beings even apart from their value as food items. But it’s not like we lived together and shared cooking utensils. She had her cookware, heavily oriented to braising, and I had a set of copper clad cookware suitable for sautéing. Importantly, we did not share recipes. So all in all we were a compatible and, for several years, a happy couple. It ended, sadly, when she tried to eat my family after a New Years Eve party. I just, I can’t go for that, no no no. I can’t go for that. Nobody has the right to eat my family. So, in fact, she had changed. She wasn’t the same cannibal I met all those years ago. I’m trying to not date cannibals at all anymore, but some of them are so damn hot.

[JanMichael]

92. You'll do anything for love but you won't do that...eat relatives.

You are intolerant and mean. You should have eaten uncle Fred.

[Martin68]

91. Well....duh!