WOW: Maxwell Defense

[WHITT]

So, I had assumed this trial would be a slam-dunk, given Epstein's track record and sympathetic victims, but apparently the defense has been exposing contradictory testimony, false testimony, and out-and-out lying, by the prosecution witnesses.

Investigative reporter Vicky Ward is the host and producer of 'Chasing Ghislaine', an Audible Original podcast, which also streams as a documentary on Discovery Plus.

VICKY WARD: I think that the real sort of shocking story of the week is that the defense for Ghislaine Maxwell has really effectively knocked down the testimony from the government's main witnesses.

You know, as you rightly pointed out, Jane, the pseudonym for accuser number one, whose testimony was really shocking about being abused for many years by Jeffrey Epstein. And so, she said with Ghislaine Maxwell in the room, from the age of 14, was then, you know, the gut -- the defense really poked a lot of holes at that in their cross-examination by bringing up notes from interviews the FBI had taken in the last two years with this accuser, which directly contradicted what she said about Ghislaine Maxwell being in the room and directly contradicted what she said about Ghislaine Maxwell participating in any of the abuse.

We saw the same thing this morning with the cross-examination of the butler, who yesterday really talked about the fact that Ghislaine Maxwell was "The lady of the house" that she and Jeffrey Epstein shared a bedroom. And again, talked about the fact that Ghislaine Maxwell, he'd seen phoning and consorting with and traveling with two underage girls, one of them was Jane, he said.

But this morning, the cross-examination pointed out that he was a liar. He had under oath four years ago, given testimony, set admitting that he had stolen money from Jeffrey Epstein not once, but twice, which contradicted his testimony in court yesterday. Where he said, he'd only stolen money from Jeffrey Epstein once.

So, the credibility of the government witnesses is really coming under fire quite effectively from Ghislaine Maxwell's defense. And I think a lot of journalists in the courtroom are quite surprised by this.

https://www.msnbc.com/transcripts/transcript-all-chris-hayes-12-3-n1285398


Interesting that the witnesses have changed their stories and contradicted their own previous statements, AFTER Epstein died and there's now a sizable 'Epstein Compensation Fund' on the table.

[Effete Snob]

1. "and there's now a sizable 'Epstein Compensation Fund'"

It's not tremendously surprising.

There can be a lot of reasons for varying testimony of persons who were selected on the basis of having family/personal issues for grooming in the first place. For example, the trauma itself may be a factor.

There is grooming and there is grooming. Since the Epstein victim fund was established, there have of course also been lawyers anxious to round of Epstein victim clients. On the one hand, contingent fee lawyers provide legal services to a lot of people who would not otherwise be able to afford lawyers. On the other hand, it can produce unfortunate incentives.

Even considering that situations can be more complicated than they appear is anathema to some, which is unfortunate. People are not testifying machines, and the same person may relate different aspects of episodes over time. By the same token human memory is not static. Memories can, and do, change.

[WHITT]

5. I Think

you're missing the point. This is not about slight differences in testimony.

After being presented with her prior statements to the FBI, "Jane" claimed that was not her statements she gave to the FBI.

Is she unaware that when one gives a statement to the FBI, they WRITE IT DOWN and STORE IT?

And the butler perjured himself, according to his own prior statements to the FBI about multiples crimes committed.

These are MAJOR contradictions.

[Effete Snob]

7. "Is she unaware that when one gives a statement to the FBI..."

She's probably unaware of a lot of things. Epstein did not choose rocket scientists as victims.

With, for example, Virginia Giuffre, there have been glaring contradictions in what she has said at various points in time for a long time now.

Bottom line, Maxwell cooperated in Epstein's scheme to rope young women and girls into his criminal fetishistic behavior. I think the government will succeed in eventually nailing that down, but I don't doubt that there's a whole lot of folks pursuing a whole lot of agendas.

Other than the Q nonsense about a global conspiracy of powerful pedophiles, it is something of a mystery to me why this trial of Maxwell attracts so much attention. The media likes it because they know there is the undercurrent of conspiracy theories connected to it, so it gets eyeballs. But it is just a disgusting tale of a guy who had the resources to engage in disgusting exploitive behavior of young women and girls with problems.

And, sure, young women and girls who were enticed by the money and repulsed by the behavior didn't, in all likelihood, lose their capacity to be manipulated by other people with other agendas.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

2. Virginia Giuffre has been caught misrepresenting as well, claiming at one point she was 15 when she

met Epstein, but it was later shown pretty conclusively that she was 16, and closer to 17 iirc.

She also had to be prompted to 'remember' that she'd been with Dershowitz by a reporter in an email that came out in one of the defamation trials.

I'm not saying they're all lying about everything, not by any stretch, but ... getting 'caught' in this kind of stuff is not a good look in a courtroom.

Point being ... prosecution seems like they need to tighten up the ship here.

[chowder66]

3. I don't doubt that a lot of bad has happened but when you are

caught up in a world like this I would imagine there will be some issues. They were young impressionable girls and some I'm sure didn't find the best road out which is really heart breaking.

[empedocles]

8. The defense, in this case probably a very well paid defense, always tries to make the

case about everything - except the obviously guilty Maxwell.

[Tomconroy]

4. An article in Vanity Fair said the same thing but that doesn't

come across in the New York newspapers' accounts of testimony. Hard to know what's going on.

[WHITT]

6. Indeed

I'm not seeing any of this stuff in any of the MSM coverage.

[Effete Snob]

14. The OP is a transcript from MSNBC

Is that MSM?

News media in general sucks at covering legal proceedings because, frankly, a lot of what goes on is boring as watching paint dry.

What they do know is that scandal and famous names get clicks and eyeballs. That's why a lot of the news coverage pays winking homage to the more fanciful notions about Epstein peddled by Qanon and its mirror image brethren.

[WHITT]

15. Maybe Daytime

but not 'All In', Rachel, and 'Last Word'. They tend to cover stuff the MSM doesn't.

[Karma13612]

9. Considering the intimidation

Tactics used by Epstein and his defense team and goons, I would not be surprised if the dogs have been let off their leash to do the same thing to witnesses now. For this trial.

[WHITT]

10. The Defense Team

is not making the prosecution witnesses LIE, CONTRADICT their previous statements to the FBI (it's a federal crime to lie to the FBI), or commit PERJURY. They're doing those all on their own.

[Karma13612]

11. Interesting,

So this means Maxwell might walk because they don’t have witnesses with truthful testimony.

My heavens, this is heartbreaking. Was all of this a big lie???

Or wait, they are lying now??

[WHITT]

12. Good Question

If "Jane" is insisting she's telling the truth now, then she previously lied to the FBI, which is a federal crime.

The butler perjured himself in regards to his commission of a crime.

However, it may not matter. Epstein's actions were so vile, the jury may be so revolted, that somebody must pay, and Epstein is dead.

[Effete Snob]

13. Witness tampering is a federal crime

Attorney Lisa Bloom represents a number of the victims.

Why isn't she doing anything about the intimidation by Epstein's defense team and his goons?

Have they gotten to her too?

[Karma13612]

17. I have no idea, but I think it's odd

That they have been building this case for awhile, and suddenly these witnesses are recanting.

[Effete Snob]

19. Recanting?

What have they recanted?

As noted in the OP, previously Jane said Maxwell was not directly involved in sexual abuse and now Jane is saying she was involved.

That's not "recanting".

Why would Epstein's lawyers and unidentified "goons" be pressuring the witness to further implicate Maxwell, and how is that "recanting" the prior testimony?

A witness is said to "recant" their prior testimony when they withdraw a prior incriminating allegation, not when they ADD to it.

[WHITT]

16. Update

now the testimony from all four witnesses testifying 'anonymously', "Jane", "Carolyn", "Kate", and "Annie", SERIOUSLY CONTRADICT their previous statements to the FBI.

YIKES.

Might be why the prosecution originally said they planned on a four week presentation, but now it will be less than two?

[DFW]

18. I need to follow the news back home more.

After that Billy Joel thread, I thought this was going to be about a silver hammer.

Now I see there really is something involving some who is really named Maxwell.

[Torchlight]

20. She'll throw what she needs to at the wall.

And given her her net worth and the lawyers she can afford, I'm guessing a lot more will be thrown before she eventually earns her due.