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MineralMan

(146,327 posts)
Fri Dec 10, 2021, 03:02 PM Dec 2021

Being Charitable Is at the Heart of Progressivism

Truly it is. If you are fortunate enough to be healthy, have a job, a roof over your head, are free from heavy student debt, and otherwise enjoy the benefits of being whoever you might be, you're lucky. You might think that you earned all that, and that others ought to earn their good fortune, too.

If you do think that way, however, you are not actually being charitable, and that's not progressive. Not everyone can have what you have, even if what you have is modest and difficult to maintain. That's why those of us who have what we need must be aware of those who do not and try to help them however we can.

If you managed to pay off your student debt, that's wonderful. You may have scrimped and not spent all of your earnings on living better, and that shows good sense and thrift. However, not everyone who accumulated student debt has been able to service that debt. Health issues, the wrong choices of majors, and many other factors can eliminate that possibility. When that happens, lifelong stress, indebtedness, and bankruptcy can be the result. Millions of Americans find themselves in that position, unfortunately. So, you did well enough to pay your student debt off. But, if you're insisting that those who have been unable to do so should pay for their inability with continued poverty and indebtedness, you're being selfish, frankly. Be progressive and work to help establish programs to help people with unmanageable student debt.

If you own a home, even with a mortgage, or live in an apartment and can pay the rent each month, you're very fortunate. Many, many people cannot own a home or even be sure of making their rent. Many things can put someone in that situation. Some people - far too many - end up without a roof over their head. You're fortunate. Others are not. So, what can you do? Well, there are organizations out there that are dedicated to helping people who can't make the rent and certainly can't buy a home. If you're fortunate, look into that. If your community, county, state, or federal government has a program that helps such people, don't begrudge those people that help. The taxes you pay or your generous donation will help to ease the problem. That's the progressive thing to do.

If you worked hard to get what you have, you should feel proud of your success. However, not everyone can do that. Far too many people have no available path to get where you are. Being progressive means being in favor of helping people live dignified, worthwhile lives, regardless of the obstacles they face. Don't be angry at those who can't do as you have done. Be helpful, instead. Work toward establishing systems that are designed to provide that help. That's progressivism.

Thanks for reading.

8 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Being Charitable Is at the Heart of Progressivism (Original Post) MineralMan Dec 2021 OP
A great message for a season of peace and sharing PortTack Dec 2021 #1
Thanks for this post. Elessar Zappa Dec 2021 #2
many thanks to you markie Dec 2021 #3
The cost of education is several times higher than it used to be under previous generations AZProgressive Dec 2021 #4
OK. Those are facts. MineralMan Dec 2021 #5
We're going to end up back where we were at the beginning of the 20th century. Jedi Guy Dec 2021 #7
I think you could get a large majority to support (or not oppose) mitigating student loan burdens. BlueCheeseAgain Dec 2021 #6
I am not qualified to decide, frankly. MineralMan Dec 2021 #8

AZProgressive

(29,322 posts)
4. The cost of education is several times higher than it used to be under previous generations
Fri Dec 10, 2021, 03:15 PM
Dec 2021

Costs have risen 25% in the last 10 years plus the student loan system is broken.

MineralMan

(146,327 posts)
5. OK. Those are facts.
Fri Dec 10, 2021, 03:21 PM
Dec 2021

However, those facts do not alter what I said, do they?

Things are as they are. In fact, your facts make my point even more salient.

I grew up and attended college at a time when attending a state college or university cost very little. I was fortunate to never have any student debt. That does not mean that I'm not aware of the current situation and want to do something to help with that. I was fortunate to have been born in 1945. That makes it even more important that I do what I can to help those who were not.

I would like to see higher education subsidized like it was back then. A succession of Republicans ended those subsidies. It is incumbent on us, as progressives, to correct that. That won't be a simple thing to do, quite frankly, but we need to be committed to accomplishing that, I think.

Meanwhile, I want to do what I can, as an individual.

Jedi Guy

(3,246 posts)
7. We're going to end up back where we were at the beginning of the 20th century.
Fri Dec 10, 2021, 03:32 PM
Dec 2021

It's getting to the point where the cost of a college education is simply out of reach for a lot of people unless they can get a scholarship or grant. When I started at University of Arizona in 1999, in-state tuition and fees worked out to $1200 a semester. Not exactly pocket change, but affordable. These days in-state tuition and fees comes out to about $6300 a semester. So assuming you finish in four years (which is by no means guaranteed) you're looking at $50000 just to sit in the classroom. Add several hundred to a couple thousand dollars a semester for books, and room and board, and it's ruinously expensive. Out-of-state is even worse.

Unless something changes, the only people attending university will be the children of the wealthy/elite. Which, of course, is a feature rather than a bug as far as some are concerned.

BlueCheeseAgain

(1,654 posts)
6. I think you could get a large majority to support (or not oppose) mitigating student loan burdens.
Fri Dec 10, 2021, 03:30 PM
Dec 2021

But outright cancellation, which some people are arguing, is going to be very controversial, and in my opinion, rightfully so.

Let's say the federal government (and by extension, the public) suddenly finds itself with $1.6 trillion to spend. What would you do with it?

(a) Spread it widely and broadly among most Americans, as in the previous stimulus packages?
(b) Fund social programs like those in the Build Back Better proposals?
(c) Give it to a 12% slice of the American population that is already better educated and higher income than average?

If (c) seems like an odd choice to you, that's what student loan forgiveness would do. It targets a small subset of the public that has a median income of $76,000. I think you'd find a lot of good arguments that there are better things we can do with that money.

MineralMan

(146,327 posts)
8. I am not qualified to decide, frankly.
Fri Dec 10, 2021, 03:45 PM
Dec 2021

However, not everyone with large student debt earns that median income. Some do, but far from all.

People make iffy decisions when they head off to college. Take me, for example. I switched from electronics engineering as a major to English, after dropping out and serving four years in the USAF. Now, that was in the 1960s. Clearly, that engineering major would have paid off a lot better than the English major. But, that was my decision.

Now, I didn't incur a bunch of student debt back then. Today, if I made that decision, I'd still have been in debt, but with a degree in something that certainly doesn't guarantee a high income, right?

I'm not into punishing people for making the wrong choices in their youths. Nope.

So, because some student debt is held by people who earn $76K per year. Should their loans be forgiven? How about those English majors, who are unlikely to earn that much? English majors also contribute to society. I ended up being a magazine journalist, writing helpful articles that helped people learn to do things better. My engineering background, along with my diverse interests, made it possible for me to use my writing abilities to help people understand computers and other technology. But, I never earned all that much on an annual basis. In fact, I never earned the median income any time during my adult life. Was I of less value as a person than the people who designed all that technology? I don't think so. I'm a very frugal person. I did not have children. So, I was able to survive and even thrive on a lower income.

Bottom line is that this stuff is not a zero sum game at all. We don't have to help some people, while ignoring others who also have needs. Instead, we need to look at how we can help everyone who is in need deeply enough for it to cause them real, material harm.

I'm not concerned about the people who can afford to own or rent a place to live so much. I'm concerned about those who cannot. I'm not concerned about those who earn enough to service their student loans. I'm concerned about those who have no hope of servicing those loans.

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