Trump paused student loan payments while Biden restarted them

[wellst0nev0ter]

If you don't think that's how people are going to interpret how things went down, then us Dems will be looking forward to a miserable midterm.

Link to tweet

?s=20

[Cuthbert Allgood]

1. It's accurate.

He ran on this, has the power to do something, and isn't. And then we will somehow be shocked when millennials don't get excited for the next election.

[mcar]

2. He ran on this?

[wellst0nev0ter]

6. Yes

Link to tweet

[mcar]

18. So it's been sent to his desk as a law

passed by both chambers of Congress? Did I miss that.

He has cancelled a bunch of student debt, IIRC.

[wellst0nev0ter]

22. Is that you, Jen Psaki?

Biden has already unilaterally cancelled billions of dollars in student loans, he can easily widen the scope.

[Tommymac]

47. No, he can't.

This has been explained ad nauseum by legitimate media sources, politicians and economists extensively for the last 11 months.

He has done what most lawyers feel is the most he can do with executive orders re Student Debt - doing more would most likely get shot down by the courts as unconstitutional.

And he is trying NOT to expand executive power and privilege. For obvious reasons.

It is in the hands of the Congress, like it or not. That is how Our Constitutional System works. College educated people should understand that already. If not they wasted the money they got.

[betsuni]

50. +1 (last two sentences get extra +1)

[Orrex]

58. Your snark notwithstanding...

Between now and the midterms you can either explain to every college educated person the particulars of why they're still drowning in debt that they hoped would be relieved, or you can accept the fact that the millions of college educated people whom you deride are going to have this in mind when they decide how to vote or not vote in Nov 2022.

[Doremus]

60. Absolutely this. And to pretend otherwise with blind support is self immolation. nt

[FlyingPiggy]

142. 1,000,000+++

[CentralMass]

3. Your statement is accurate.

[wellst0nev0ter]

4. Biden's approval with The Youngs are now at Obama midterm territory

But don't worry, young people don't vote

[Revanchist]

8. The age range for millennials is 25 to 40

Is that still considered young?

[wellst0nev0ter]

9. Source is at the bottom of the chart

Read it, learn the parameters, then come back with a snarky reply. Thanks!

[mahina]

5. Walk me through how he has the power?

Thanks.

[wellst0nev0ter]

7. Ask Chuck Schumer

Link to tweet

[Celerity]

37. +1

[AngryOldDem]

10. My son absolutely loathes Biden for this.

But he doesn’t credit Trump with suspending the payments, either. All he knows is, come February, he’s back in that rabbit hole of debt.

I can’t really talk politics with him because he knows it all and our conversations can get tense. But I’d be willing to bet that he won’t be voting Democratic for a long time, if he votes at all. He’s squarely with the Progressives and has been extremely frustrated that the party doesn’t seem to listen to younger voters.

[wellst0nev0ter]

11. I share his frustrations

And what I fear is that low-information voters, the voters that might lean Democratic if we played our cards right, will blame Biden for restarting the student loan payments that The Great Trump had halted.

[W_HAMILTON]

13. Does he not qualify for any of the income-based repayment plans?

[wellst0nev0ter]

15. Enlighten us about the income-based plans

So that I can laugh bitterly at them.

[W_HAMILTON]

19. With that sort of attitude, you can (and really should) enlighten yourself.

I'm on the REPAYE program and my student loan payments are capped at 10% of my discretionary income; right now, having had to temporarily leave my professional career to take care of an elderly parent, I'm actually having to pay $0/mo since my reduced income is not high enough to trigger the regular student loan payments.

[wellst0nev0ter]

27. You still accrue interest and you're stuck with a larger tax bill

Any more half measures?

[W_HAMILTON]

30. It's not a half-measure.

And due to various life circumstances that have derailed my professional career (as mentioned in previous posts), I've pretty much come to the conclusion that paying the absolute minimum (through an income-based repayment program) and then having my student loans discharged after 20 years is my best route financially.

And I don't have a larger tax bill and won't have one for 15-20 years (or however long I have left to pay, I haven't even figured it out yet with all the pandemic pauses and other $0 payment periods, etc.). I figure by then, the student loan situation will be resolved or our democracy will have ended because those so vehement about student loans decided to sit out more elections and let Republicans win, so, either way, it's not really a priority of mine at this very moment.

[wellst0nev0ter]

32. Also, if you get married, your payment goes up

[The Revolution]

103. Yep

Which I don't understand. Seems like it should be solely based on the borrower's income. So what if you get a tax break for joint filing?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

17. Income-based repayment plans assume a 5% raise in income every year.

[W_HAMILTON]

24. That's false.

Income-based repayment plans -- at least all the ones I've seen, and the one I am actually enrolled in -- require you to recertify your income information each year; once you do this, your monthly payment for the next year is then calculated.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

36. On the StudentAid.gov website, if you're trying to calculate what your IDR will be, the estimate

assumes a 5% increase in income every year and that your family size and state you live in won't change. The servicer has the final word, but if someone is trying to do their due diligence, that number is...aspirational, to say the least, and gives people a false sense of what's at stake.

[W_HAMILTON]

130. That is just to estimate what your payment plan would look like.

However, once you are actually enrolled in an income-based repayment plan, you are required to certify your *actual* income every year in order to renew and your subsequent monthly payments for that year will be based off of that.

[Xolodno]

48. The IBR plans are a double edged sword.

They don't factor in cost of living. So if you are in California, you have a higher income and may not qualify.

What should be done is a graduated system of forgiveness over time. Simply cancelling the debt is just using duct tape to hold things together. A permanent solution is needed going forward. No one should be paying student loans when they hit retirement age if they got them fresh out of high school.

[helpisontheway]

25. I think my son feels the same way about Biden

He did not want to vote for Biden. He liked Bernie. I begged him to vote for Biden instead of not voting. I told him that Biden would write off the 10,000 whereas Trump would not do a thing for him. Doubt he will vote for Biden again if he runs. I don’t understand why Biden would promise young adults something that he had no intention of doing.

[Polybius]

65. Most politicians worry about getting elected

They don't think about the second term until a year and a half before re-election.

[liberal_mama]

35. My son feels the same way! He's always been a liberal democrat but sees this as a betrayal

With inflation and high gas prices, it's going to be very hard for a lot of people to make their payments. People are going to get very angry and I worry that the republican fascists are going to clean up in 2022.

At the very least, they should adjust the income based repayment to a lower amount.

[Polybius]

64. This is a huge problem that we must acknowledge is real

There are millions of Gen Z like your son who may not vote Republican, but they will surely stay home in 2022.

[W_HAMILTON]

12. It just shows how fickle everyone is.

If Biden canceled every single student loan, there would be even more people bitching and angry that he is giving away """handouts""" to what is often a relatively well off segment of society.

Moral of the story: Biden will be attacked regardless of what he does, and -- at least in this situation -- he'd be attacked even more vociferously if he did wipe out all student loans.

So, pick your poison.

As a side note, some of the loudest """but muh student loans!!1!""" crowd -- at least online -- are from the Jill Stein Independent Republic of the Democratic Party, so, even if student loans were wiped out, they'd quickly find another reason to complain about both sides being the same and coming up with an excuse not to vote for Democrats anyway.

[wellst0nev0ter]

14. Here's what will happen:

Those who complain won't vote for Biden anyways, so ignore those shitbirds.

The complainers will soon be distracted by the FAUX Nooze shiny object of the day and move on.

Meanwhile, you'll set yourself up to win a generation of loyal Democratic voters whose lives you've materially changed.

What 45 has taught us is that if you stand for something and stick with it, and the sky won't fall, so get up and ACTUALLY DO THINGS.

[W_HAMILTON]

26. There is no reason whatsoever to believe that it will win them over.

And -- once again, after interacting with many of these types online -- I firmly am of the opinion that, no, absolutely you would not be winning these people and turning them into "a generation of loyal Democratic voters." They absolutely would just move on to the next issue and forget about what had already been done for them. """Sure you canceled 100k of my student loans, but what about Medicare for All?!"""

This may be neither here nor there since I think a good policy or a bad policy is just that on its own, without taking into account the political impact, but I do bring it up because others are suggesting that this would somehow win over "a generation of loyal Democratic voters" and there is absolutely zero reason to believe that to be the case, and the proof is from listening to these would-be "loyal" voters over the past half decade.

[wellst0nev0ter]

29. So you're ignoring how young voters put Biden into office?

Election Week 2020: Young People Increase Turnout, Lead Biden to Victory

Is this how you're going to thank them? Are we also going to ignore how Biden is underwater with young voters?

[W_HAMILTON]

31. Biden has done lots already for them and others.

Just because he can't get every one of their overly optimistic wishes and desires accomplished in one year, they are going to go back to doing what they did in 2016 and let the fascist Republicans win?

Once again, if that's the case, that's even more proof that maybe we shouldn't be catering to a small subset of voters -- and I'm not even referring to all young voters, just those that would choose Republican fascism over not having their student loans wiped out -- that are fickle at best and oftentimes don't even vote anyway.

[wellst0nev0ter]

33. Most will only remember the $1400 check

That doesn't cover a full months rent for most, and Trump gave them $1800.

We need to do better.

[W_HAMILTON]

132. Then they're fucking stupid.

Trump also gave us the worst economic disaster since the Great Depression. Trump also gave us 20+ million unemployed. Trump also gave us a conservative Supreme Court that will be overruling all of the progressive achievements they can over the next decade or longer. Trump gave us a lot of shit -- all of it bad.

And if these young voters truly think like you claim, then they deserve what they will get -- read: NOTHING, unless you count more conservative fascism... -- when Republicans retake control (once again) due to their idiotic fickleness.

[AncientAndy]

40. Your link defines young voters as 18-29.

I don’t think we should be forgiving student debt for people 29 and younger. A 29 year old with a BA is only seven years out of college. I don’t expect anyone to pay off their loans in that little time. This should be for long-term holders only.

[wellst0nev0ter]

42. Means testing doesn't win you votes

[AncientAndy]

44. Neither would unfair benefits.

Somebody who graduated last year would get their debt paid off but someone who graduates next year doesn’t? It don’t see how we can sell that. Unless we plan on doing this debt relief every few years.

[wellst0nev0ter]

45. Win more election, cancel more debt

Do nice things.

Not that complicated.

[AncientAndy]

51. That doesn't make a lot sense.

Win more elections, yes! But unless we tackle the cost of tuition first we’ll end up in a situation like I said. People who graduated a year before win the lotto, and anyone who graduates after is screwed unless we forgive it again.

[wellst0nev0ter]

52. Sounds like fishing for an excuse to do nothing

Which would be truly dumbfounding.

[AncientAndy]

55. How does that sound like an excuse to do nothing?

I said lower tuition costs and forgive long-term debt holders.

[betsuni]

61. It's being used as a populist purity test, like Medicare for All was.

Biden can be accused of breaking imaginary promises (lying), proof that the party only pretends to be progressive, that they do nothing and stand for nothing, don't stop Republicans, both sides same, etc. Goal is for young potential Democratic voters to become cynical and not vote.

The whole BUT HIS PROMISES helps Republicans.

[wellst0nev0ter]

62. At this point we won't even get the public option

Thanks to the slavish insistence on adopting the fetal position.

So congrats, I guess

[betsuni]

69. "Thanks to the slavish insistence on adopting the fetal position"?

Ah, insulting the Democratic Party as spineless, weak, not fighting for anything, beholden to (fill in the blank), not stopping Republicans, not progressive, etc., because they don't have the votes to pass things like the public option right now.

So congrats, I guess. This is a forum for supporters of the Democratic Party, by the way.

[wellst0nev0ter]

71. There's the Do Something Caucus

And there are the other guys

[betsuni]

73. Who are the Do Something Caucus? Ninety-nine point something percent of the Democratic Party?

Except those who vote with Republicans (very few -- like those who voted against the infrastructure bill). 50-50 Senate. What's the anti-Democratic point here?

[wellst0nev0ter]

87. The Squad was right to vote down the infrastructure bill

Because passage of the infrastructure bill meant the end of Biden's agenda, as we can see before us.

Reply back when you can say anything halfway critical of Manchinema and their blatant delaying tactics.

[betsuni]

88. "as we can see before us"

Personal insult!

[wellst0nev0ter]

91. I know following the news is hard

But here is Manchinema moving the goalposts again. First he didn't want programs funded for 10 years, but now he's making that a condition?

Build Back Better isn't going to be passed by Christmas.

Link to tweet

[betsuni]

92. WHATABOUT

[wellst0nev0ter]

95. I know this is amusing and all

But I'm a Democrat who wants to see Biden succeed, not fail.

This is not making Biden succeed.

[betsuni]

97. What's "this"?

Imaginary Biden promises?

[wellst0nev0ter]

98. Like Build Back Better

You know, the one that is being gutted and delayed by bad actors.

[betsuni]

100. We've really got to stop meeting like this.

[wellst0nev0ter]

101. We really have to take things seriously

[wellst0nev0ter]

109. FYI

Link to tweet

Can't blame this on The Squad.

[Nixie]

107. Exactly. Thank God for Pelosi getting infrastructure passed

and bypassed the 6 who voted with Republicans. That was success for Biden and our party and should not have been held up.

It’s funny that some can’t see that Manchin and Sinema’s public fights with the “squad” only increases their cred with the voters they are targeting in their red states. I’m glad Pelosi saw through that and stopped the games.

[wellst0nev0ter]

63. As always, it's a half measure

[betsuni]

78. As always, it's a blame Democrats.

[wellst0nev0ter]

85. If Democrats lose in the midterm, whom will we blame?

Will it be antifa, defund the police, CRT, or Inflayshun?

[betsuni]

89. "we"?

[wellst0nev0ter]

93. Yes, as in we, the Democrats.

Or are you implying something else, I may ask?

[betsuni]

94. LOL

[wellst0nev0ter]

96. Guess I'll take that as a "yes"

[betsuni]

99. Well, since our relationship has gone this far and if that's a proposal, the answer is no.

[wellst0nev0ter]

102. Wow, that went in a weird direction

[betsuni]

104. I thought we had something special. You paused our relationship, that's how people

are going to interpret how it went down. We are looking forward to a miserable midterm.

[wellst0nev0ter]

105. I'm guessing this response made sense when it was originally workshopped

I suggest mulling over it 30 more minutes or so before hitting "post"

[betsuni]

106. mulling?

[wellst0nev0ter]

110. No, "muling"

[AngryOldDem]

20. Here is the main takeaway.

The party really doesn’t seem interested in the concerns of younger voters. This decision drives it home. I admit that I’m disappointed in Biden over this, too. It’s like he promised it as a sop to Sanders and Warren, and then he reneged on it.

Young adults ARE paying attention, because thanks largely to student loan debt, they can’t get any kind of economic and societal foothold postcollege.

The party ignores them at its peril.

[W_HAMILTON]

28. Shame on you for saying that.

Biden and the Democrats most certainly do care about younger voters -- a helluva lot more than the alternatives, that's for sure -- but there is only so much that one can practically get one. If younger voters want student loans canceled, vote in a couple more Democratic Senators and let them abolish the filibuster and pass student loan cancelation.

Sitting on your hands come Election Day and pouting not only is not conducive to getting their desires addressed, at this point it's also a dereliction of civic duty given how our democracy is *literally* at stake in these recent and future elections.

[AngryOldDem]

34. I stand by my comment.

I’ll be sure to tell my kid to just be patient — after Biden backtracked on a promise that many people were relying on. Pardon him for feeling a bit betrayed and a whole lot angry.

[GPV]

38. +1. Not a winner for my Libertarian son w/big college debt.

[AngryOldDem]

39. This "be patient and wait" BS is insulting and condescending.

You’d think they would have learned that by now. Their lives are on hold because of this burden that could be erased at the STROKE OF A PEN. Plus, a promise was made. How do you expect any kind of party loyalty after that’s been walked back?

[GPV]

41. You can't. Appeasing righties at the expense of our young. Stupid.

[JI7]

68. He is Libertarian and he wants the Govt to erase his Debt ?

[betsuni]

70. Hilarious and sad.

[JI7]

80. Yes and people will make excuses for them voting Republican

by saying Democrats were not left enough instead of seeing the truth about where these people stand .

These people are supposed to be college educated but they are going to give credit to Trump for something that was obviously related to the Covid outbreak and shutdowns which we no longer have ????

[betsuni]

84. Yes, college-educated but Trump totally, like, paused student loan payments because he cared

while Biden restarted them because he's so mean: BUT HE PROMISED THANKS, BIDEN OMG SAME AS OBAMA I AM SO DISAPPOINTED I WILL NOT BE VOTING.

I thought Democrats were over-educated out-of-touch coastal elites who ignored working/middles class people because all they thought about was money. Now they're ignoring the educated elites? Um. okay.

[GPV]

77. The costs shouldn't have been so high in the first place. He's not against debt, but thinks

costs should be reasonable. And the government seeming more useful might win him over to being a Dem.

[JI7]

79. Why doesn't he care about women's right to chose and voting rights ?

I doubt it will win him over . Libertarians always think whatever help they get is deserved but care nothing for anyone else.

Just the fact he is libertarian says a lot about someone to me.

[GPV]

90. He's on the spectrum. He

thinks differently than some people do. Maybe some life experience will change his mind. My dad went from Repub to Indy to Green. I went from Green to Dem for Bernie's sake. People change.

[Autumn]

129. That is some hard truth there. We older Dems are loyal to the party because they did things

that made our lives better. Young people have no loyalty to them because they don't meet young peoples needs and those young people don't see the Dems doing things to make their lives getting better. Hell, we can't even get things done to save the planet we are leaving them.

[Autumn]

117. It's not fickleness. It's the simple fact that young people are realizing they are fucked

and will never be able to have a comfortable life like their parents did. What you consider handouts it what they need to not struggle every day of their life. As for young struggling people being the """but muh student loans!!1!""" crowd that is bullshit and pure Republican talking point. Young people owe no loyalty to any party. They will, and should vote for the party that understands their needs. If it's not the Democratic party then don't expect their vote.

[W_HAMILTON]

131. LOL, it's not a Republican talking point.

As if Republicans give a fuck about student loans -- LOL!

And that sort of rationale is why our country is in the fucked up state it is in and why those younger voters will continue to waste away their lives living under Republican-dominated government.

If they are stupid enough to let Republicans -- who most certainly will not bring about ANY of the change the younger people desire -- into office rather than simply supporting the vast majority of Democrats that do support their ideals and getting a few more Democrats in office to offset people like Manchin and Sinema, then, well, how's the saying go? You get the government that you deserve.

They still won't get what they want, plus we'll probably lose our democracy -- "but muh student loans!!1!""" indeed!

I say once again: they are fickle as fuck.

[Autumn]

133. Well if it's not a Republican talking point, it's an "I got mine so fuck you" thing. Just as bad.

Younger voters will continue to waste away their lives living a shitty life due to climate change and poverty. If the Democratic party wants their votes they better do something to get them, they don't owe them anything. As far as some are concerned in things that matter to them there isn't a lot of difference between them .

[W_HAMILTON]

134. No, it's absolutely not.

It's a "just like you, I didn't get mine yet either, but I'm not going to say 'fuck you' and cut off my nose to spite my face."

It's called progress and we have been making it. If a certain segment of young voters can't see that and would rather shit on the progress that has been made and revert back to Republican control of government, (1) yes, fuck them and (2) they should stop sullying the PROGRESSive name by calling themselves progressives, because they are obviously anything but.

[Autumn]

135. Do you know any young voters? nt

[W_HAMILTON]

137. Yes.

And most aren't as stupid or selfishly short-sighted as you and the Briahna Joy Grays of the world would have everyone think.

And that's why I have no problem in telling those types to fuck off, because they -- very small in number, but very loud online -- are more trouble than they are worth. Democrats could fulfill all of their wishes and they'd still find something to bitch and moan about and threaten to withhold their votes because that's just the internet contrarian personality they want to play on social media.

I'd rather spend my time courting voters that (1) appreciate the actual and substantial progress we have made just this year; (2) realize that protecting our democracy by preventing fascist Republicans from regaining power is, by itself, most certainly something worth voting for; and/or (3) actually can be counted on to vote.

[Autumn]

138. I'm thinking you don't, you want to be nasty and make assumptions about me I throw that

right back at you. . Young voters are not stupid or selfishly short-sighted, they are faceing a lot of problems. Problems that neither party seem to be willing to adress the root issues of. As an older person I can see for a fact a lot of older people are selfishly short-sighted.

[W_HAMILTON]

139. We are all facing problems.

And the responsible majority of us realize that throwing our hands up and letting Republicans take office isn't going to help solve ANY of them.

Getting more Republicans in public office won't fix the problem -- they are the root CAUSE of most of our problems.

[Autumn]

140. I agree getting more Republicans in public office won't fix the problem. So Democratic leadership

Last edited Fri Dec 17, 2021, 03:50 PM - Edit history (1)

needs to get to work and do something to get the votes of those younger voters that rank and file Democrats seem to despise and blame for all their problems. At my age, I for one don't have that many elections left.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

16. This is going to hurt the economy, and Democrats' chances. It's really misguided. Debt relief is

such an easy, tangible win.

[AngryOldDem]

21. That is my son's argument in a nutshell.

A stroke of the pen.

[liberalmediaaddict]

43. This article analyzes this complicated issue

https://www.npr.org/2021/12/07/1062070001/student-loan-forgiveness-debt-president-biden-campaign-promise
Basically if President Biden wants to eliminate up to $10, 000 in student loan debt per person he has to get a bill passed through Comgress. Or he can sign an executive order which will immediately be challenged in the courts. Thanks to Manchsinema and the Roberts court both actions are probably a waste of time.

What Biden has been doing is expanding loan forgiveness programs which is good. However if people keep the pressure on Biden may be able to delay the restart of student loan payments in March.

[wellst0nev0ter]

46. Cancel the debt by executive order

And dare the courts to reinstate it.

The courts will be packed in a week.

[iemanja]

53. So you don't actually care if the debt is cancelled?

You just want to feel good about something seeming to be done, only to be overturned.

[wellst0nev0ter]

66. Don't take my word for it. Ask Chuck Schumer

"You don't need Congress. All you need is the flick of a pen."

Link to tweet

Or are you saying our Senate Majority Leader is, GASP, wrong?

[mvd]

72. Yes might as well try it

We do the best when we are trying hard to give people relief. There are a few other things - fourth stimulus check, more help for those on social security and disability, and a stronger overall BBB bill. But I still think Biden’s done well. He could do even better by following through with the spirit he had with the American Rescue Plan.

[Xolodno]

49. If they could pass a bill over the summer...

...it will be fresh on everyone's mind.

[iemanja]

54. How about voting rights first?

That's essential to our democracy. I don't see this getting anywhere.

[Orrex]

56. I'd like to hear how this would get past Manchin and Sinema and other Republicans

[budkin]

57. We better take care of this now or we will truly get clobbered next November

Seriously, stop fucking around Joe.

[TheFarseer]

59. And why should they still be suspended?

If you think student loans should be forgiven, that's a separate issue. It's not like the beginning of the pandemic when people were getting fired/layed off and jobs were hard to come by. Highest employment in 55 years, I saw. Why should student loans still be suspended?

[wellst0nev0ter]

67. Because INFLAAAATION

If that excuse works for Manchinema and the other obstructionists, it should work for Biden.

[TheFarseer]

83. Inflation should actually help theoretically

Your payment stays the same and becomes a smaller and smaller percentage of your expenses. A lot of people (obviously not all) are seeing their wages go up along with consumer prices.

[wellst0nev0ter]

86. Okay, ignore the higher expenses and the decreasing affordability

And "a lot of people" is doing a whole bunch of heavy lifting.

This is why people tune out the business-as-usual folks who are too wise by half.

[madville]

136. Correct, inflation is good in the long run for people in debt

It cheapens the value of their debt over time, repaying it with dollars that are worth less than when the debt originated.

[AngryOldDem]

74. Because their debt outpaces their wages in most cases?

And is only getting worse? Just because unemployment is low does not mean everybody has a job that pays a wage that covers daily cost of living expenses AND college loan debt. It’s usury, really.

This pause allowed people to get their heads above water economically. Now they’re going to be going under again. Their lives are on hold specifically because of student loan debt, which then raises the question…is college really worth it? Maybe that’s the real question here.

This debt in many cases is crippling, but college is almost impossible without taking out some financial aid. It would cost Biden and the Democrats nothing to cancel this. Instead, he wants to continue to alienate and anger younger constituents. Makes NO sense why he’s going back on this after saying otherwise. Not a good look.

[TheFarseer]

82. I agree that we have a student loan problem

But that is an issue unrelated to the pandemic, which was the reason for the pause.

[mahina]

75. Do young people care about climate change?

We understand, but we have to have a majority in both houses enough to get through the 60 Vote bs threshold.

Does people understand that Democrats supported that when it came out and would support it now but the Republicans are the obstacles?

I see this point being hyped on Reddit and polished up to reduce complex reality to yet another grift. I’m not buying it.

[JI7]

81. "hyped on Reddit and polished up to reduce complex reality to yet another grift. "

Perfect description of the argument being made.

It's one thing to be disappointed not more is being done but it's such bs to give Trump credit and make excuses for not voting and ignoring all the other important issues. I guess they are libertarians then who I always see as being "all about me" and not really about an ideology as most of them oppose women's rights and gay rights.

[Act_of_Reparation]

114. Do old people?

Doesn't look like it.

[mahina]

119. I know so many who do and trust that young people are not so

Easily and transparently manipulated as this example.

Some do, many don’t, no Republican legislators do that work or accept that it is existential and their responsibility.

[Act_of_Reparation]

120. Maybe trusting the next generation to pull us out of the hole we dug isn't really fair to them.

Maybe they aren't significantly different from us, especially when one considers they were raised by us.

[mahina]

121. Clearly it's all hands and generations in deck

With great urgency. How and when we figure that out and turn to address it will vary. I hope with my whole heart we dint buy in to division, intentional diversion and distraction.

[betsuni]

76. And just like that, insulting Democrats as wealthy over-educated coastal elites who don't care

about the working class disappears.

Now they're being mean to the educated!

[MineralMan]

108. Sometimes, I think there are folks pretending to be on our side

who are hoping for a lousy midterm result. Stuff's complicated. Presidents have only so much power. There are tons of things that need to be done, and most of them need to be done soon.

Blaming a President for not accomplishing things that must get through Congress is a fool's approach. Instead of encouraging people to skip voting or doing some other stupid thing, I suggest helping to broaden people's viewpoint and educate them on the limitations of our Executive Branch.

Spite is a very poor political strategy, particularly in the mid to long-term sense. Donald J. Trump was the "Spite President." That worked out poorly.

Should student load debt be erased? I'm OK with that. Must it happen "Right Fucking Now?" Probably not. Seems to me that voting rights, family leave policies, and several other things in the BBB are higher on the priority list and for more people who will be affected.

Congress, not the President, must make those things happen. Work on that! That's my suggestion. Skipping the midterm elections out of spite seems like a self-defeating thing to do.

But, what do I know?

[wellst0nev0ter]

111. Today is really not a good day to engage in contrived pieties against the "spiteful"

Haven't you heard? BBB is all but dead in the water.

I checked. You almost never criticize Manchin this past year. Although he's "not your favorite senator," you give him free rein to act like saboteur.

And now look at where we are. We're forced to shelve BBB, because the egos of Manchinema is more important than passing Biden's agenda intact.

People think throwing up our hands and saying "we tried,, vote harder" is savvy politics. I'm waiting for those same people to wake up 10 years ago.

[MineralMan]

115. Yeah, OK, whatever. There is no good or bad day for the truth.

I can do nothing about Manchin. He is not the Senator from my state. So, he is what he is.

What is your plan for dealing with Manchin and Sinema? I have not heard that from you. But, do tell.

So, I "almost never criticize Manchin." But I do criticize him sometimes. It's just that I can do nothing about his decisions, so I look elsewhere.

How do you figure to pass BBB without those two Senators? There is no path to that, so BBB is going to have to be changed to accommodate those two or go down completely in defeat, it seems. Which option makes more sense to you?

How will we get bills through Congress? My suggestion is that we focus on increasing our majorities in both houses in 2022. That is actually a workable plan.

Let's see your plan for making things happen, please.

[wellst0nev0ter]

116. I started several threads on how to deal with Manchin

I guess you must've missed them.

There WAS a path to getting Manchinema's vote on BBB: do NOT decouple the bill from BIF. They both pass together.

Manchinema had been prematurely campaigning on BIF, they aren't going to abandon it.

Also, pressure work, especially pressure from the entire country, not just West Virginia. That's how he voted for the Rescue Plan.

Or we can do things that other way: roll over and hope for the best.

[BannonsLiver]

122. It's the belief others should bail you out because of your poor life decisions.

There’s a huge sense of entitlement at play here.

“Pay off my loans, now, assholes!”

“Why? Aren’t they’re your responsibility?”

“Because!1!!”

[MineralMan]

124. Well, I wouldn't go that far.

We've been sold the idea that a college education is a necessity for everyone for quite some time. It's not, really, and many jobs don't really need a degree, but with everyone having one, it has become a requirement, almost as a default.

So, kids (and their parents) are convinced that they need that degree and that going into debt to get it is a worthwhile investment. The trouble is that a lot of college students are unprepared to do the work, both intellectually and in a maturity sense. So, they get a degree, but learn little, really, that serves them after graduation.

I don't blame the students, nor do I blame their parents. It's a marketing strategy to promote post-secondary education and it has been bought by almost everyone. Now, with the cost of higher education being so high and the ease of borrowing too much so prevalent, too many people who will never earn enough to warrant such an investment take on debt they shouldn't take on. The idea has been sold to them.

It was all a major mistake, society-wise, I think.

Which is not to say that college isn't a good thing, but it is a financial investment. If you invest more than you can repay by taking loans, you're going to be royally screwed for many years to come. For many, repaying those student loans will never be possible.

So, I'm in favor of dealing with that mistake on a societal level and rethinking education thoroughly. So, I'd like to see loan forgiveness wherever those marketing strategies have caused people to invest poorly at a time when they were too young to understand what they were committing to.

[BannonsLiver]

125. Agree on the selling of college

It’s obviously fueled many of these debt problems.

Even though people should seek out employment that is not miserable for them, there should be some practical thinking about debt load-and return on investment.

A $500k degree that lands a job that pays $50-75k may be in a field that is satisfying to that individual, but that doesn’t necessarily make it a smart personal finance decision. That’s what I find most irritating, that others should be on the hook for someone’s bad business sense.

[MineralMan]

126. The problem is that most people have no concept of

what servicing a debt actually costs. And those students are too young to understand it, frankly. Most adults don't understand it, actually.

Doing the math is hard. I mean, I was an English major at the end of my college years. That qualified me for nothing really, and everything, if I was smart enough to figure out how being able to communicate well was a pathway.

But, for the average college student working on a degree in the humanities, there will be no big payoff. Now, many students borrow more than they need to get a degree. In many ways, they're really looking for the "college experience," more than preparation for a rewarding career.

I went to a state college in my own state. Now, that was at a time when the state subsidized that education, followed by a time when the GI Bill paid for me to go back to college after dropping out and enlisting in the USAF. I was accepted at Cal Tech out of high school, but my parents informed me that they could not afford that private school. So I went to a state college, now rebranded as a "University."

Kids don't know that a 2.0 GPA at some college gets them nothing, really. There are too many graduates with much better GPAs out there, and they get the good jobs. But, you can still get a degree with a 2.0 GPA. You can spend the same amount of money as the 4.0 GPA student, but the outcomes will not be the same.

Or, you major in Anthropology or History, or Political Science and can't get any job in your field at all. So, you end up in some entry-level corporate job you are unqualified for and never really prosper in. Or you borrow more money and go to graduate school, but there are no jobs for you even after getting a PhD. Sucks.

It happens every day at every school every year. A flood of new unqualified graduates stream out of those institutions and end up with $30k entry level jobs and are $200k in debt. That's a hopeless situation. They couldn't get a $200K mortgage with that salary, and that's a secured loan and a place to live. Meanwhile, they need a place to live, a car to drive, and want much more than they can afford to buy. It's a vicious circle that most people have no idea how to survive.

It's frustrating to watch, but even more frustrating to live though. Those kids have my complete sympathy. They were conned.

[PufPuf23]

127. Educational costs should not be as high especially in a supposedly egalitarian society

The loans themselves are invalid and a product of just how far the USA has gone off the rails as far as any idealism as a nation of enlightenment and good intent.

There are a number of schools that are a scam where students end up without a degree or less than a quality education. There also schools where students get loans for an overpriced education and are fed crap.

[Thrill]

112. Not sure who is advising him on this

Just extend until Congress sends you a bill. Mind boggling. You think young people are going to be energized for mid terms, when you can’t even do this. Unreal. Know your voters. Jeesh

[wellst0nev0ter]

113. Simple things are difficult, apparently

[AngryOldDem]

118. You'll lose the young people for far much longer than the midterms.

This generation is paying attention and they will have long memories. Especially if they have trouble moving on from school debt.

This was such a no-brainer. Why Biden is doing this is beyond me.

[BannonsLiver]

123. Life's a bitch sometimes.

I wish them all well with their sense of entitlement.

[wellst0nev0ter]

128. To whom are you directing the well wishes

If I may be so bold to ask?

[alcuno]

141. I'm just not with this student loan forgiveness proposal.

I do think that the interest rates are way too high, but people agreed to them. I think something could be done to lower the rates. We took the path of paying off the loans during the pandemic because of no interest. That was something we could afford to do. This is such a divisive proposal - giving "free" money to college-educated and not the same amount to the non-college educated. I think of all the kids who did not go to college because of the problem with paying off loans.