A lot of people here see Sinema and Manchin as blocking a progressive Senate conference...

[brooklynite]

The reality is that the progressive Senate conference doesn't exist. We have had a center-left Conference for decades. Manchin came to the Senate in 2010. At the time, the Senate had Mark Begich in Alaska (anti-gun control), Max Baucus in Montana (anti-public option), Bob Casey in Pennsylvania, Claire McCaskill in Missouri, Jim Webb in Virginia, Ben Nelson in Nebraska, and of course, Joe Lieberman. The Democratic Caucus has become MORE progressive over time, but not so strong as to be able to ignore the moderate/conservative members. In 2020, we only won TWO seats outright (Arizona and Colorado), and both those members were mainstream Democrats. The progressives we got elected in Georgia came about only because Trump suppressed his own vote in the runoff by endlessly complaining that voting was rigged.

[dsc]

1. I know that is the theory in terms of GA

but I actually disagree with it. I consistently felt we had a good shot at the run off elections for the same reason we had tended to lose them before. Our voters were more motivated than theirs. And I think any Dem would have won Colorado in 2020.

[LonePirate]

2. They are blocking legislation supported by every other Dem in the House and Senate.

They are not blocking a conference. They are blocking the rest of the party. I’m not sure either of them knows what it is like to be a team player.

[Celerity]

6. [phone]

I said the same down below.

Cheers

[doc03]

3. If Manchin doesn't agree the bill they have to negotiate a solution. That is

all they can do. I don't think it helps to surround his boat in kayaks or publicly attack him.
Of course if they have some Kompramat that could help.

[Wounded Bear]

11. I see no indication that Manchin is 'negotiating' in good faith...

He sure looks a lot like a 'my way or the highway' type in this.

[TreasonousBastard]

4. True dat. The general population tends to be conservative, as...

we view them. They tend be afraid of an undefined future, not very interested in philosophical discussions of politics and power, and not terribly interested in anything beyond their personal covenience and safety.

Besides, "liberal" politics hasn't done anything for tthem personally.

Look around the world amd explain why so many countries are sliding rightward. Hint-- it's not because if treachery. It's bacause of who we are.

We're no different in the US, and I've often marveled at the ability of our Nixons to be so popular. Progressive Democrats will always be in a minority, and we have to operate understanding that.

[gab13by13]

10. I totally disagree with your post,

Break down every one of Bernie Sanders positions, one by one, and the vast majority of the white supremacists will be in favor of them.

Why do you suppose that people elected FDR to 4 terms? The white nationalists, the neo-Nazis are the minority but are allied with oligarchs who own politicians who own the MSM which controls and pushes their narratives. Remember the Tea Party signs? Keep your government hands off my Medicare.

[jcgoldie]

14. Republicans maintain power through constitutional advantages favoring conservative blocks

It isn't due to the "general population" being conservative that the GOP threatens to take power, rather it's because the senate and the electoral college give proportionally much greater power to the vote of people in conservative areas. If the population as a whole was center right as you maintain why would republicans need to restrict voting rights to maintain power?

[walkingman]

15. Your post reminds me of the late 60s and early 70s. At that time it

Last edited Fri Dec 17, 2021, 01:47 PM - Edit history (1)

seems to me "everyone" was against the Vietnam War. "Everyone" was everyone I knew and I was in my early 20s. McGovern won 1 state (and DC) in the 72 election. It was a rude awakening for many of us.

That was then....I think the country is far more progressive than many think. Much less religious oriented, much more welcoming of diversity, and for the last 3-4 decades witnessing a disappearance of the middle class.

I don't see "conservatives" able to deal with the problems that we face in the 21st century. Denial of climate change, pushing a narrative that diversity is unAmerican (when in fact it is the bedrock of America), embracing crony capitalism almost like a religion which translates to "greed is good", and welcoming a "gun culture" that translates to hundreds of people losing their lives everyday.

I don't think that our legislative branch of government represents the wants or needs of the population. It is the result of a rigged system - and it is getting more rigged everyday.

If voting really made a difference they wouldn't let us do it.

[Tom Rinaldo]

7. I think you summarize it accurately.

I was very aware of the moderate centrist block in the Democratic Senate Caucus during Obama's Administration. It was more centrist as a whole than our current Senate moderates. Manchin as usual is an exemption, but realistically what can you expect from a Democratic Senator from a State that went for Trump by 40 points? Individual personalities are always a wild card in the Senate. Otherwise who would have expected one of the most conservative members of the Democratic caucus during Obama's presidency to have hailed from the dark blue state of Connecticut? Sinema is our wild card now. Yes she represents a purple state, but so does Mark Kelly who, though not identified with our progressive wing, is far more in line with President Biden's agenda, which is the most left leaning presidential agenda we have had in many decades.

It is with Senators like Kelly, and Jon Testor, and John Hickenlooper in Colorado that the subtle shift to the left from today's Democratic moderate Senators starts to show. Sinema and Manchin stand out because they seemingly have resisted making the same slight shift to the left that most of their peers have adjusted to. Sinema in particular is maddening ih her refusal, for example, to roll back any of Trump's wildly unpopular tax cuts for the rich, something virtually every other Democrat is on board with to at least some degree.

[gab13by13]

12. Very well written,

[jcgoldie]

8. Manchin and Sinema are blocking Joe Biden's agenda

Trying to somehow blame that on progressives becoming more progressive takes some pretzel twisting indeed.

[gab13by13]

13. If BBB and S1 are examples of progressive legislation, so be it.

Call those 2 bills whatever they are needed to keep our democracy. Yes, Joe Biden has governed from the left. I voted for him in the 2008 primary because he was a strong union man, but he has exceeded my expectations. He is doing so well as a president that the right had to push a fake narrative that he is failing, along with fake polling.

[myohmy2]

9. okay...

...that was then...

...it's a two way street...

...we'll see what happens next year...

...but I can guess...

[dpibel]

16. Whack that straw man!

Last edited Fri Dec 17, 2021, 05:44 PM - Edit history (1)

You done beat him up real good!

How do you get from "Manchin and Sinema are blocking a couple of bills that have wide popular support" to "mythical unicornian progressive Senate conference"?

It seems a mighty leap to me.