if you choose not to be vaccinated...

[myohmy2]

...when you catch COVID and begin to die please don't go to the hospital to die there...

...be considerate...the hospitals are now full of unvaccinated people dying of COVID causing our healthcare providers to be super stretched and overwhelmed...

...if I need to go to the hospital because of a heart attack, automobile accident or maybe even a stroke there won't be any room for me and then I'LL DIE and I don't want to die...

...it's not fair to put me and my life at risk...it's not fair to over-work our healthcare providers until they stress-out or quit...it's not fair to be sucking up all of our healthcare dollars when you planned on dying anyway...

...be considerate of your fellow American...have a heart...there's nothing wrong with dying at home...

...people do it all the time...

[Siwsan]

1. The willfully unvaxxed should be triaged to the back of the line and Covid beds should be limited

Once that limited number of beds is full, the Covid inflicted should be advised to go home and ingest horse paste.

[Zeitghost]

3. Why stop there?

Let's apply the same policy to anyone who makes bad health decisions. Smoker with lung cancer? 350lb type 2 diabetic? Alcoholic with scrocciss? Gang banger with a gun shot wound? Junkie with HIV? Go home and die...

[NoRethugFriends]

4. The reddist of herrings. The most straw-filled of straw men.

[Zeitghost]

6. The topic is denying healthcare

to those that repeatedly make poor health decisions with full knowledge of the consequences is it not?

We could have the hospitals freed up in no time.

[Mr.Bill]

12. They already do that to some extent.

They won't do a lung transplant on someone who refuses to quit smoking. They won't do a liver transplant to someone who refuses to stop drinking. The won't do a knee replacement on some one who weighs 375 pounds, etc.

[Zeitghost]

13. So we just need to expand on it

by denying all care for antivaxxers and the rest...

[Maru Kitteh]

17. No, we need to exile antivaxxers to one of those artificial Chinese islands

and let those stupid fucks enjoy their FREEEEEEDUUUUMB to keep giving each other COVID till they're all expired.

That's my vote.

[Zeitghost]

19. Agreed

but why stop there? We have millions burdening us with their bad choices.

[Maru Kitteh]

21. The day after your donuts and smokes endanger my family

we can revisit the subject. As it is, you got butkus.

[Zeitghost]

22. They do

By wasting limited resources, which is the topic of the OP.

[Gore1FL]

37. I don't recall hospitals nationwide bursting at the seams because of anything other than Covid.

Apples and oranges are both fruit.

[Zeitghost]

42. As I explained previouly

That is because those health issues were already built into the health system capacity. When a novel virus showed up, it overburdened that system. It's the straw that broke the camels back as it were.

If your local hospital was designed to care for 100 patients and normally operated at 90, throwing 20 COVID patients into the system becomes a problem. But it doesn't mean the 20 unvaxxed COVIDiots are more of a burden than the 40 people who also made poor decisions with regards to their health.

[Gore1FL]

43. Thank you for acknowledging that this is about the Covid overwhelming the system.

That was exactly my point.

[Zeitghost]

45. Your spin

Isn't working... But good try.

Who "deserves a bed", the unvaxed COVID patient, the smoker with stage 4 lung cancer or the car wreck victim hit by a drunk?

[Gore1FL]

46. It was exactly my point.

The system is built for ABC. It is being overwhelmed by D. There is a simple process that eliminates most issues with D in a mere 4 weeks. The reason many don't use that simple process is because they don't trust the system built for ABC that they now choose to overwhelm.

Apples and Oranges both have Vitamin C. We can find more similarities, I am sure, but they are different things.

[Zeitghost]

47. And my point is

B&C can also be avoided easily. So why put the blame on D?

[Gore1FL]

48. You used Smoking and Donuts

Smoking takes more than 4 weeks.

"Your lung function improves within two weeks to three months after the last cigarette. During the first year after quitting, coughing and shortness of breath decrease, and your lungs become better at cleaning themselves to reduce the risk of infection."

https://lompocvmc.com/blog/124-healthy-living/1891-how-long-does-it-take-the-lungs-to-heal-after-quitting-smoking?locale=en#:~:text=Your%20lung%20function%20improves%20within,reduce%20the%20risk%20of%20infection.

Weight loss can take much longer:

"According to many experts, losing 1–2 pounds (0.45–0.9 kg) per week is a healthy and safe rate.
Losing more than that is considered too fast and could put you at risk of many health problems, including muscle loss, gallstones, nutritional deficiencies and a drop in metabolism "

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/losing-weight-too-fast#:~:text=According%20to%20many%20experts%2C%20losing,6%20%2C%207%20%2C%208%20).

Oranges are considered citrus fruits. Apples are not.

[NoRethugFriends]

34. BTW, it's "bupkus"

[littlemissmartypants]

40. Actually, apparently it's bupkis....Yiddish for goat poop.

[myohmy2]

5. none...

...of those are overwhelming the system and putting me at risk...

...what about my decision not to die of injuries in a car accident?

...have a heart...

[Zeitghost]

7. That is where you are wrong

Hospitals are full of people who have made poor lifestyle decisions.

[myohmy2]

8. nope...

...that's not what they said on the news tonight...

...the unvaccinated with COVID are overwhelming and clogging up the system...

...hope you don't need to go to the hospital...

[Zeitghost]

9. What they mean

And what the numbers show, is that COVID patients take up the few excess beds built into the system and thus overwhelm it. But they do not make up a majority of hospitalizations or even a majority of those hospitalized for a lifetime of poor health decisions.

[NoRethugFriends]

35. Now you're just making shit up

[Zeitghost]

44. Dismiss the truth all you want

The numbers don't lie.

[Celerity]

58. Post legit links backing up this massive claim you made.

And what the numbers show, is that COVID patients take up the few excess beds built into the system and thus overwhelm it. But they do not make up a majority of hospitalizations or even a majority of those hospitalized for a lifetime of poor health decisions.

I have seen interview after interview with doctors and nurses over the past 21 months or so saying COVID patients made up the vast majority of patients (especially ICU) so many times.

[MrsCoffee]

60. The numbers don't lie.

And you have none to back you up.

I have never known anyone turned away from the hospital because it was full of smokers or drinkers.

Go play somewhere else.

[Siwsan]

10. Really? REALLY???? Lung cancer, diabetes, alcoholism, gun shots aren't contagious

HIV is not airborne. Honestly, that is a ridiculous argument, IMHO.

[Zeitghost]

11. We are not talking about how contagious a condition is

We are talking about easily preventable yet serious/fatal health conditions that overwhelm the healthcare system.

[Siwsan]

14. None of those other conditions have caused the healthcare nightmare created by Covido-19.

There is something that can be done that is free, easy and effective.

I lost a good friend to Covid-19 and almost lost my only brother. I have no patience with people who are willfully putting pretty much everyone around them at an increased risk.

[Zeitghost]

15. Poor diet and sedentary lifestyles

kill far more and are by far the biggest drain on the healthcare system as a whole.

[Siwsan]

16. Are they clogging the ERs and ICU beds? Delaying care to people with other conditions?

I don't think so.

We see things through very different lenses. Such is life.

[Zeitghost]

20. They fill up hospitals

And drain limited resources. That's the argument being made with COVIDiots, isn't it?

[Siwsan]

24. Hospitals and their staff have never been this stressed and overwhelmed

And for the staff it is both emotionally and physically overwhelming. I have a cousin who is a critical care nurse who worked in a Covid ward, last year. She said she had trouble finding the words to describe what she experienced.

Just no comparison.

[Zeitghost]

25. That is because

All of the other preventible conditions were already baked into the system. But that doesn't mean they are any less responsible for the drain on resources. COVID is the figurative straw that broke the camels back.

[Captain Zero]

51. I have a more sedentary lifestyle right now

Because of all the covidiots running around out there like nothing is going on. I'm vaccinated. They aren't. They are clogging the hospital and ERs. If I was in an accident. Say I slipped on the ice, and went to the hospital. I'm not clogging the hospital, I'm there for a legit reason. Something accidental. They are there clogging the place up, stressing out the staff., Making others sick. Maybe even giving me a breakthrough case because they are concentrating the virus in a small area. Their need is unnecessary. There is a vaccine. They didn't get the vaccine. They should be at home licking their horse paste, some bleach, and a prayer book. I should be getting the care I need like for a broken ankle from a fall on the ice. Not triaged in between some sick morons.

[Maru Kitteh]

18. Bullfuckingshit. You WISH we weren't discussing a contagious condition.

But we are. Dumb-fuck antivaxxers endanger HCP and their families. And people wonder why we are quitting in record numbers.

[Zeitghost]

23. The OP

Is about wasting precious healthcare resources by not making good healthcare choices.

[paleotn]

30. Reductio ad absurdum

Look it up.

[AncientAndy]

38. Contagious doesn't matter when they are occupying a hospital bed that my wife needs.

They were irresponsible with their health. She’s not. So she should get the bed, right?

[Siwsan]

39. I've seen several reports of people who have died, due to no hospital beds being available

Surgeries being postponed. Vaccinated people actually afraid to get medical help for serious health concerns.

Add to that the multiple kinds of stress and fatigue being experienced by the hospital staff.

Last March (2020), when my brother caught Covid (he's a school bus driver) he tried to go to the ER. They were so overwhelmed they asked him if he felt he was still capable of breathing on his own. He was. Barely. So they told him to go home and gave him some instructions. He was SO ill for several weeks and there was NOTHING any of us could do for him. We are the last two in our immediate family. At that point we had lost 7 other family members in just 5 years. I don't know what I would have done had he died. So I have ZERO patience or sympathy for the willfully unvaccinated plague spreaders.

So yea, if someone is willfully unvaccinated and catches a hard case of Covid, they shouldn't be a priority. I know that sounds harsh but not as harsh as their indifference to the welfare of others.

[USALiberal]

52. Lol, nice try! Nt

[Siwsan]

53. I could return the 'compliment' but why bother.

Empty, sarcastic remarks just don't show a heck of a lot of thought.

[paleotn]

28. Reductio ad absurdum

[Zeitghost]

29. More like

Logical conclusion to the proposed policy.

[paleotn]

31. Reductio ad absurdum

Not logical in the least.

[Zeitghost]

33. Denying healthcare

To those who have made poor health decisions is the topic at hand. Extending that topic from unvaxed COVID patients to other preventible conditions is a logical progression.

[MrsCoffee]

61. No, no it's not.

I can't tell if you are being intentionally obtuse or disruptive. Maybe you really believe what you are posting.

Do some research and come back when you are armed with actual facts.

[paleotn]

32. We certainly shouldn't turn the all away, but....

if things flare like they appear to be, triage will be the order of the day.

[VarryOn]

2. This is a great template for dealing with those with health issues related to other...

Lifestyle choices. Let's get further past COVID and maybe move to obesity next.

[Hortensis]

26. Some posts have been reminding me of the accusation that the ACA would include

Last edited Fri Dec 17, 2021, 10:24 PM - Edit history (1)

"death panels." Not actual panels in this case, but a mentality of selecting out a group for death. Only those for whom death would be appropriate, of course, complete with rationale. It's purely coincidental that the chosen victims who shouldn't have healthcare because they don't deserve it overlap strikingly with political opponents who've become feared and hated.

What it's doing here on DU, I don't know. This is NOT compatible with the principles of Democratic liberalism by any definition, and no amount of fear can excuse it to me. Entirely to the contrary.

How could anyone who's passionately committed to universal healthcare reconcile that with a new passion for denying healthcare to millions? And how could anyone who sees himself as virtuously very different from conservative racists reconcile that with embracing discrimination-to-the-death against members of a group he's decided "deserves" it?

To my mind, the wish to deny healthcare to millions reflects the same kind of depraved indifference to the lives of others that the antivax disease-spreaders do, claiming the group's unworthiness as justification to promote their deaths.

On top of that appalling similarity, there's the pathetic, trumpist-worthy denial of reality: The vast majority of anti-vaxxers who get Covid are not going to die from the current viruses, with or without hospital care. This fact-free fancy has been showing up in hundreds of posts for over a year now. No amount of denial will make our scary political opponents die off in large percentages.

But, bottom line in any case, this can be taken to the bank: No, they're not going to be locked out of the healthcare system any more than we're going to lock her up. Democrats don't do this, WON'T ever do this, will always fight those who would.

[ForgedCrank]

49. Thank you for

posting this. I'm often a little reluctant to rock the boat on subjects like this because I get bullied over it. There is also this myth that those who are anti-vaccination are all trump cultists, when that is far from reality when we look at demographics of those who resist. Couple that with the outpouring of glee when someone we don't like politically actually dies (especially from covid), and it really makes me uncomfortable.
These are not the Democratic and liberal beliefs that I grew up on and believe in. It is very disturbing sometimes to see just how much of it there is here.

[Hortensis]

50. Thank you too. I know the dangerous growth of hostility

and extremism on both sides does not reflect the many millions of people who vote Democratic because of their basic decency. But these days posts that speak to our principles are like welcome lights in a toxic miasma.

[Traildogbob]

36. Considerate

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Like trump, their idol,😂😂😂😂🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂

[FBaggins]

41. Oh please don't go to the hospital for your heart attack or stroke

It was almost certainly caused by your own life choices. Please save those hospital beds for the people who deserve them

Similarly - allow yourself to just die at home for anything related to alcohol, drugs, smoking, or failure to exercise sufficiently and convert to veganism.

[Emile]

54. They have a vaccine for heart attacks and strokes?

Too bad my dad didn't know, he could have avoided his stroke! Dad never smoked and exercised everyday, but damn if only would have taken your vaccine.

[FBaggins]

55. They have a vaccine for alcoholism?

[Emile]

56. Cannabis

[Baltimike]

57. I think anyone refusing to vaccinate should have to sign a dnr.

That simple. But the repigs have *ALWAYS* needed to have it both ways..."I don't believe the doctors" (and then after they get sick) "Doctor, doctor, please save me"

Hypocrites of the highest order

[Meowmee]

59. You're kidding right?

You think anyone is going to do this… no. They are going to a hospital so they can live, thye do not care about you or anyone else or they would have gotten vaxed in tfp.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

62. For this thread

Link to tweet