Someone here told me to "look at the big picture" regarding Joe Manchin

[jcmaine72]

I was also told that, despite Manchin being the consummate DINO and virtually no use to our Party whatsoever, it was better to have a blood Red Dem in West Virginia than no Dem at all.

They were absolutely correct. I have finally seen the big picture on Joe Manchin and..

He's a scumbag.

P.S. For anyone of a mind to report this post on the grounds that it violates the TOS condition on criticizing fellow Democrats, can you please do me the courtesy first of explaining exactly how Joe Manchin is a Democrat, and why he's worthy of the same kind of loyalty that he himself is utterly incapable of showing?

Thank you.

[CrackityJones75]

1. Judges.

He has helped in some regards. He appears to be fucking us here.

[LonePirate]

2. Preach!

[onecaliberal]

3. I have 2 hides for saying that.

[ColinC]

15. Same. I speak in acrostics now. Just in case.

[jaxexpat]

74. I'll never give up my got-a-mighty. They'll have to pry my dogma from my cold dead hands.

Oh........., acrostic, like straight talk, except secrety, letter counting and stuff. Are acrostics anti-christers too? This close to x-mas? That's puzzling.

[ColinC]

76. My latest

https://democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=16163104

[pecosbob]

16. I run out of fingers and toes when I count mine

I got my first hide over this guy back in 2015. The Wumao is vigilant here.

[DenaliDemocrat]

48. I asked why he changed his name

Dropping the vowel to sound “whiter”, and took a hide for it.

[Doremus]

4. The idiots in his state voted for him. Too bad they alone can't reap the consequences.

Maybe if they saw the rest of the country gaining the benefits of BBB, they might be more careful with their future voting decisions.

[Maggiemayhem]

45. WV had two choices for US Senate

Manchin or Republican Carpet bagger Patrick Morrissey who joined in the lawsuit against the ACA. The Repubs have successfully tied Evangelical Christians to their party in WV. WV consistently votes against their own interests and to think they helped IFK win the Democratic primary.

[paleotn]

53. Yes. They use to be a bit more progressive....

and then came fundigelical, religo-bullshit. Now they're fucking themselves for GAAAaaaawwwwdaa. I say, leave them to their own devices. The state is dying anyway. Let it die.

[tiredtoo]

62. "Voted against their own interests"

Going to question that statement. Who are we to say what their interests are?

[Maggiemayhem]

47. WV had two choices for US Senate

Manchin or Republican Carpet bagger Patrick Morrissey who joined in the lawsuit against the ACA. The Repubs have successfully tied Evangelical Christians to their party in WV. WV consistently votes against their own interests and to think they helped IFK win the Democratic primary.

[KPN]

61. People are venting okay? Geesh!

[people]

5. Manchin is needed for

the voting rights bills-- that is, assuming he will vote for them. I am hoping that he will vote for at least one of them. After that, I don't care to hear anything about him again.

[BlueJac]

14. I am not sure he supports that either!

[LowerManhattanite]

20. He just torpedoed that as well...

…saying a few minutes ago that he also will not support a rights carve-out and wants a 60-vote passage.

He’s sh*tting in Dems stockings for the holiday.

[leftstreet]

6. If the WH posted here, they'd recommend your thread

Statements from the WH indicate they're pissed!

[Pantagruel]

7. Joe Manchin remains a Democrat

and Schumer keeps control of the voting agenda in the Senate. Break up the BBB and force votes on each piece. Let the GOP go on record voting down child tax credits, pharma reform and removing tax loopholes for the rich among other issues.

[Walleye]

11. Yes. Why aren't they doing that?

[Mr.Bill]

55. I think they just wanted to get it done

and get it behind them. I'm sure President Biden has lots more he wants to do.

[gab13by13]

13. Schumer should have broken up S1 6 months ago,

and after every Republican voted every bill down then Schumer should have gone to Manchin andtold him he was voting for a carve out to the filibuster.

I doubt that Manchin is even going to run again, he is owned by American oligarchs.

[Joinfortmill]

30. I love that idea if only Fox would cover it.

[Mr.Bill]

54. Yes. This way the press will be forced

to talk about each individual issue instead of just naming the bill by it's cost.

[CrackityJones75]

67. LOL media forced to do something?

Trump will take a shit on stage and they will talk about that instead.

[OldBaldy1701E]

77. The GOP and their masses do not care

They know their faithful will just say that all those things are a waste of time and should be solely privatized anyway. They will be cheered for voting down anything sponsored by a Democrat, because they have to 'stick it to the libs'. Now, once all that fantasy fades and reality comes crashing in, they will all start to whine, but still will not understand that it is their 'leaders' that created this mess and are the ones perpetuating it. They do not care. They must win at everything, even society. And, if they can't, then they would rather let it all collapse because that is what they have been told is the 'right' thing to do. They are a cancer. Cancers need to be removed. Not salved over... removed.

[MineralMan]

8. Two words for why: Mitch McConnell

[Butterflylady]

39. And that is why we need to pull together and get

Biden more democratic senators in 2022.

[MineralMan]

40. Yes. I've been saying that since 2010...

Why don't we do that, I wonder? Instead, we just keep repeating the cycle again and again. We should stop doing that.

[Polybius]

46. Swing voters are the problem

I can never understand someone who can vote for Bush, then Obama twice, then Trump, then Biden. Swingers stand for nothing.

[MineralMan]

49. And that's why we need to convince them, eh?

Think, please.

[Polybius]

51. There's no convincing them to vote for Democrats all the time

They seem to like the cycle of political change.

[tiredtoo]

63. ditto EOM

[Katinfl]

59. Exactly what we need to do.

The only way we will ever get anything done is to get more Dems in the Senate so we could afford to lose a vote or two and still get something passed. As it stands now, it is strictly a numbers game. We will never get a GOP vote.

[TheRickles]

70. Plus some built-in structural problems with the Senate

40 Senators represent the 20 least populous states, whose total population is less than that of California (which only gets 2 Senators)! So states like Idaho, Montana, North and South Dakota, Wyoming and the like have a hugely disproportionate presence and influence. It's a tough obstacle that the Dems face.

[RANDYWILDMAN]

82. And the people in those states constantly vote against their own interests....

to constantly own the libs.


Were F'd the forefathers sold the senate to slave states with their compromise and were are paying big time for it.

[Irish_Dem]

9. I think I see the big picture alright.

And it is not a pretty one.

[hlthe2b]

10. Pragmatism may dictate we ignore the offenses of someone who'd cheerfully kick our puppy...

and just hide the little thing away. But unfortunately, we can't protect suffering Americans adequately from the harm being done as a result. I don't have to hide my unspoken contempt though I can't say what I really think... here.

[DonCoquixote]

12. sooner or later though

The people who know we have to protect puppy kickers will just keep kicking puppies, then kitten, then babies, the old men.

[Nay]

81. Yup. This is something most people don't seem to understand. nt

[pecosbob]

17. Jenn Psaki called him disingenuous for citing deficit worries

The fact that he did it on FOX adds salt to the wound.

QUESTION FOR MODERATES: HAVE YOU HAD ENOUGH YET? IS HE A PARIAH NOW?

[Joinfortmill]

31. YES!

[brush]

18. I'm with you. Drum his ass out of the party. He's failed us...

on the one and biggest issue we need, and now it's just about a given that we will lose the House majority also in '22. With him and Sinema in the Senate we've already lost that majority in reality.

I know Schumer is nominally the majority leader but that means little with the two ego-tripping DINO senators continually showing us that they are really republicans who don't give a fuck that BBB could helps us keep the House majority.

And what's worse, he goes on FOX, the republican propaganda network, to announce he's "NO" on BBB. That's just rubbing it in Democrat's faces and he knows it. I think he enjoys it. Of all networks he goes on extreme winger one.

[CrackityJones75]

69. It has been no e getting judges confiremed.

The answer is gaining enough senate seats that he is irrelevant even if he switches parties.

[onenote]

85. VP Harris has broken more 50-50 ties than any VP since the 19th Century

Manchin's vote made that possible.

The idea that it would be good for the country (and good for Democrats in the 2022 elections) to hand the reins over to McConnell (and control of every Senate committee to Republicans) so that no legislation passed by the House can even get a vote, no judges can be appointed, etc. is laughable.

[brush]

87. He failed us when we need him most. Him and Sinema...

are hurting Biden's agenda more than helping it. Without the benefits of BBB getting to voters our chances of keeping our Congressional majorities, especially in the House, are decidedly lessened. Manchin is hurting us.

[onenote]

88. And how would forcing him out of the party help us in 2022?

[bucolic_frolic]

19. Once he leaves the party, Moscow Mitch is Majority Leader

So step lightly.

[wellst0nev0ter]

21. His political career would be over if he switches

No trumpanzee would vote for someone who voted to convict 45, not once, but twice.

[jcmaine72]

24. Having to choose between Moscow Mitch and MAGAt Manchin is like....

...having to choose between someone putting strychnine or arsenic in your Cheerios.

Pick your poison.

At least McConnell isn't pretending to be something he isn't.

Then again, neither is Manchin, for that matter. He's a straight-up DINO and RW Reagan Democrat....which means he is NO Democrat at all.

[2naSalit]

58. More like Sophie's choice. ...nt

[Tommymac]

22. K&R for your P.S. nt

[Ka-Dinh Oy]

23. Joe Manchin is not a Democrat.

He got in running on a Democrat platform but was lying the whole time. He hid his Repuke lack of values until he could use them to help his repuke buddies to bring down the country.

[packman]

25. Manchin , a Democrat

And if there were more, I'd add them

[TNNurse]

26. I support your criticism of him completely.

[mountain grammy]

27. Funny thing about being critical of Manchin..

I've gotten pushback from the same DUer's who repeatedly and often attack Bernie Sanders, who by every account really is a die hard true blue Democrat!

But, everyone's entitled to their own opinion..

[mjvpi]

56. I'm with you. Judge these politicians by their actions.

BBB is full of the reasons that I am a proud Democrat. It’s also full of what Senator Sanders has been saying consistently for his whole political career. The exchanges that I have had about Senator Sanders not being a real Democrat blow my mind. Senator Manchin has proved that their are some real disconnects within those who put a D after their name and what values that implies.

[keithbvadu2]

28. At present, he is a 'loyal' Democrat.

Some people worry that Manchin will become a Republican. In the current balance of parties, that will not happen. He would switch parties only if the Democrats have a large majority or the Republicans have a large majority. He is in a maximum position of power right now and he knows it. The Democrats have to kiss his ass to keep him. If he switches parties he will become just-another-Republican.

At present, he is a 'loyal' Democrat.

[Fiendish Thingy]

37. He lost his coveted "100% loyalty" rating when he cosponsored the anti-Biden anti-vax Mandate bill

[Joinfortmill]

29. I'm with you!

[BradBo]

32. Joe Manchin is a piece of shit. Hes...

…. a corporate shill and a undercover republican. Fuck him and that hooker out of Arizona.
No wonder this country’s fucked.

[Glaisne]

38. Upvote

[Autumn]

44. We did, just barely, that won't happen again with the voting shenanigans the Pukes

have enacted the last few years.

[Fiendish Thingy]

42. Manchin is a fine upstanding Democrat

That’s all his fan club will tolerate at DU.

I go to bed each night praying thankfully that Manchin is the only thing keeping the senate out of Mitch’s hands.

I don’t know if the poor children of WV pray the same prayer…

[UCmeNdc]

33. K&R I have had several hides for saying this same thing.

It is Joe Biden's agenda. Not Joe Manchin's agenda.

[Fiendish Thingy]

34. Big Picture: children suffer, planet dies, Dems lose in 2022, Manchin gets richer. Nt

[Glaisne]

36. Upvote

[Glaisne]

35. Here's the big picture

fascist one party rule in 2025.

[48656c6c6f20]

41. I have gangrene in my leg

But have decided to keep it so it doesn't spread to my arms. And I like being a hostage.

[diane in sf]

43. You're right, he's koch scum with only one use, keeping McConnell from controlling the Senate.

[Emile]

50. His current term ends Jan 3, 2025

If he changed parties before that, his odds of being reelected as a Republican are slim at best. Republican voters would be hesitant before voting for an ex Democratic politician. If the Democratic party would run a progressive to fill his seat, the progressive would undoubtedly win! I'm sure the progressive Democratic candidate would win even if Manchin ran as an independent!

[bottomofthehill]

73. Would win what, the primary

That’s a hollow victory, a republican senator from West Virginia helps us how.

I am all in favor of dumping him if we can pick up two other seats elsewhere .....

[onenote]

86. If you're suggesting a progressive Democrat could win in W.VA, you're smoking some dangerous stuff.

Some actual data:

Trump v. Clinton 2016:68.5% v. 26.43
Trump v Biden 2020: 68.62 v 29.69
Trump won every single county in the state both elections

Senate election:
2020: Capito 70.3 Democratic candidate 27%

House elections 2020:
All three districts elected Republicans, with the closest election being 63.08 to 36.92%

State legislature:
State Senate: Republican by a more than 2 to 1 margin (23 v 11)
State House: Republican by a more than 3 to 1 margin (78 v22)

[Hortensis]

52. What about the times Manchin's made a hugely important

difference FOR us? And the hundreds of other times he's routinely voted Democratic?

Why would anyone who claims to be a Democrat be willing to have Democrats to be outnumbered by toxic Republicans in congress? Even clamor for it?

As seemingly irrational and questionable as clamoring for abortion rights and racial justice while insisting that turning over congress to the Republicans is preferable to maintaining our majority.

I swear I won't be surprised if we hear that someone who posts here is in the hospital for trying to gnaw off his own foot.

Crazy times.

[grantcart]

64. I wonder if Manchin always thought he could vote for two of the

three big Democratic proposals but not 3.

Could it be that he has picked the voting rights legislation over BBB?

[Hortensis]

66. Hmmm... He's a Democrat. I'm not imagining any reason

why he couldn't vote with his colleagues for all three, which all have many provisions he and WVans support, as long as none of the final versions contained provisions he decided he wouldn't support.

I think just bottom line it's a red state and he's a moderate conservative except when he takes a liberal position on some issue. And that the fickle finger of electoral fate has put him in a position of being able to require the party to meet his requirements rather than making as many concessions as he usually might have to.

Manchin said he won't vote for "this piece of legislation." If changes were made it would be another piece of legislation. We'll see what this means.

I just turned on the TV, only to see someone who tried to hold the BIF hostage and threatened to trash that in its entirety castegating him for the same thing. With the huge difference that he doesn't claim their far left goals. Disgusted with all of them and not in the mood to be amused by massive hypocrisy, so I turned it off as fast as I turned it on.

Hope whatever you're thinking could be a good auger for the voting rights bill, though.

[paleotn]

57. I hear ya. I totally agree.

The Dino, coal baron spends more time on Fux News than anywhere else. But ...oh no. We're supposed to be a big tent. By that logic....Judas Iscariot? He's one of us. Sure the sold out our leader, Jesus, but he's still part of the crew. Say otherwise, and your post gets hidden.

Burning at the stake is too good for him. Don't like it? Hide away.

[Emile]

60. A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs, who however

has never learned how to walk forward! FDR

Joe Manchin is a proud conservative!

[barbtries]

65. apparently the jury agrees with you.

i know i do.

[Peregrine Took]

68. In the only blue county in WV, there is a passionate anti Manchin Democratic Party

who thinks that, with the right message, a progressive candidate could beat him ala what happened in Georgia.

The right authentic (lives his or her words) could do it!

Below is a clip from RJ Escow's radio program with Shane Assasdzandi of the WV Democratic Party,
Monongahela County.

https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/the-zero-hour-with/shane-assadzandi-manchin-bbb-g1FnBf0YMJU/

[onenote]

89. Monongalia County isn't "blue"

In 2016, it went for Trump over Clinton by 51.13 v 40.78
In 2020 it was closer, but still went for Trump over Biden by 49.45 v 48.21

More to the point: a progressive candidate, Paula Jean Swearingen, ran against Manchin in the Democratic primary in 2018 and couldn't even win in Monongalia (where she lost to Manchin by 11 points).

While Monongalia is the third largest county in the state, the other large counties are solidly red and there is no way a progressive candidate could win a statewide election in the state. Swearingen ran against Capito and lost by 40 points.

[H2Oart]

71. Agree

He is, and so is his scumbag daughter, ripping off millions on the EpiPen pricing and gauging. The rich will do ANYTHING to fuck the little guy….well it’s time to reverse that. We middle class are the job creators and it’s time we take back our country….I’m tired of living with this autocratic right wing society trying to skirt the law…..our party leaders need to grow some spine and tell them the way it is…..You want to ignore subpoenas, then go to fucking jail….that’s the law. Commit treason, then you get prison sentence…..

[theworldatlarge]

72. Joe Maserati

His one and only concern is protecting his wealth, he has quite the conflict of interest being head of energy committee, he's too worried about how this bill will affect his supply of coal cash and will fuck over the country for it. McConnell has known this all along, that's why he's so confident this bill will never pass. Dems should inundate WV with the all the good things they'll miss out on, whilst Maserati man enjoys his lavish life from his yacht.

[ymetca]

75. Studs Terkel:

“We have two Governments in Washington: one run by the elected people–which is a minor part–and one run by the moneyed interests, which control everything.”

Manchin's just the tool, taking one for the "team", which is neither Republican nor Democrat, yet controls both sides.

We all know this. Hence the wild gyrations each voting cycle. People are fed up on both sides of the aisle, because there really is no "aisle" anymore, just a mirage of one.

We're a quasi-anarcho-capitalist society run by a handful of plutocrats, financed by a few hundred billionaires, and governed by a few thousand multi-millionaires.

The last thing that cadre wants is any kind of real Democracy. They never did, and they never will. And it's all "constitutional".

[yardwork]

78. As numerous folks have pointed out, Democrats need to retain our majority in the Senate.

I agree that Manchin is a scumbag and worse. If his seat is filled by a Republican, Democrats lose our power in the Senate. We won't be talking about BBB because Republicans won't let it out of committee, much less allow a vote.

Please find out why it's important for Democrats to retain a majority. And if you find a better Democrat in WV to take Manchin's place, please get him elected. I'll help.

[DeeNice]

83. Yep. It's valid to be hold the opinion that Manchin screwed us and

also face the reality that it could have been worse. This is only an issue because our senate majority is so thin. We need to work to win more seats, period.

[yardwork]

90. That's the key! We can't depend on senators from deep red states.

Democrats MUST build a stronger majority in the House and Senate. The media is not on our side.

[Paladin]

79. A West Virginia politico who flaunts a gigantic yacht and who drives a Maserati.

Don't tell me that there isn't some significant dirt on Manchin, dirt which: (A) should be detected, and (B) should be used against Manchin just as soon as possible, unless he starts behaving like a for-real Democrat, immediately.

It's way past time for Biden to go full-LBJ on this piece of shit. Do you imagine that LBJ's social programs were put in place with overwhelming support and admiration? Not hardly.

[jcmaine72]

80. The fact that he's a senator of a landlocked state who owns a yacht says it all about Traitor Joe.

[Texin]

84. I AGREE with you jcmaine72. And I feel about the same way about Sinema.