Xmas postponed, Un-boosted son tests positive (Updated)

[kpete]

Last edited Thu Dec 23, 2021, 11:35 AM - Edit history (1)

UPDATE:
message from son:

Fever is down to 100. SpO2 has never dropped below 99.
Body aches have mostly resolved.

Just have a sore through from my nose draining all night.
Had no appetite yesterday. Apparently a common symptom of omicron. I am back to my ravenous appetite today.

I want to be mad at him and I am sure the anger & frustration will return BUT right now, I am just happy he is better & xmas being postponed is no big deal.
Thanks to all of you who commiserated with me about this. I know I am not alone and that helps.
kp


*********

fever 103 degrees
tells me he will be ok because he listens to Joe Rogan and takes his vitamins
smart enough to get his first 2 vaccines but decided he was young and healthy enough to risk not getting boosted
Now, he is home with my 2 beautiful grandchildren who they assure us will be fine,

I am angry, sad, discouraged and baffled.
I have turned off the carols.
Anybody want any xmas cookies?
I have plenty.

HUMBUG
kp

[OnDoutside]

1. Firstly, happy Christmas. Secondly, fuck Rogan. Thirdly, it's bizarre

that he wouldn't get the booster having already been double vaccinated.

[barbtries]

29. my grandson just got over COVID,

extremely mild case. he got it from his unvaccinated girlfriend and now says he doesn't need a booster.

i have to nag my 37-year-old son incessantly before he finally does what he needs to do, and he works in a grocery. it's maddening. Here in NC the positive rate is 10.4%. This is a big jump.

I'm seriously considering going back into lockdown. As it is just to go through a drive thru the past 2 days I double masked. I'm paranoid as shit and acutely aware that this fucking virus could kill me. the blase attitude of my loved ones is hurtful to me though i don't think they mean for it to be.

[OnDoutside]

41. I completely understand, I have relatives like this too. My wife's sister

and family are big into the herbal remedies, and all that sort of thing. Her daughter is the same way and wouldn't allow her daughter get any vaccinations for anything. Of course when it comes to Covid, none of them are vaccinated. I would love to see the government here in Ireland bring in mandatory vaccinations, especially if they want their children to go to school.

[3Hotdogs]

62. I'll top you with this one.

73 year old cousin got the first two. She will not get the 3rd because she doesn't want the gub'mint telling her what to do.


Then there is the dillwad cousin in L.A. who takes ivimectin (however you spell it) so she don't need no tax.

[Desert_Leslie]

65. N95 mask

Barbtries, you mentioned double masking.

The past few days I've seen a lot of recommendations from doctors online to upgrade to an N95 mask. They're pretty easy to find nowadays.

You can get these masks from Amazon: 3M Aura Particulate Respirator 9205+ N95

Box of 20 masks is $29.99.

These ... and some N100 masks too ... are what I've been wearing. Very comfortable and easy to breathe through.

[barbtries]

66. i have one

but it is not comfortable for me. Maybe I'll try these. I use surgical masks presently.

[HUAJIAO]

68. Surgical masks will NOT protect you from getting covid.

Get N95s.

[GB_RN]

70. Not True. Surgical Masks Are Fine...

As to N-95 masks, unless you know how to shape it to your face and have been properly fit tested for size and leaks, they're not going to do you any more good than a surgical mask. How do I know this? I'm a nurse and I have to be fit tested at the hospital every year for dealing with potential TB patients (as well as COVID patients, since this came out).

Double-masking with surgical and/or cloth masks is definitely sufficient if you're out in public and taking other precautions like social distancing and hand washing. Now, if you're actively taking care of a COVID patient, in a closed environment, that's a different story; you definitely need an N-95 (or other device like a PAPR) in that case.

[Ms. Toad]

74. I'd add that surgical masks are not fine UNLESS they create gaps at the cheeks and the nose.

Their level of filtration is just fine - but air flows through the path of least resistance, which is the gaps at the cheeks most surgical or procedure masks create, and through the gaps around the nose that masks with an inadequate nosepiece fail to close.

This is true regardless of the filtration level of the mask - which, as you pointed out, include poorly fitted N-95 masks.

[barbtries]

75. surgical masks are effective against COVID

N95 is the best. I'll use it in certain situations but my go-to is the surgical mask, which is comfortable.

https://theconversation.com/evidence-shows-that-yes-masks-prevent-covid-19-and-surgical-masks-are-the-way-to-go-167963

[OnlinePoker]

32. Here in BC, we have to wait to be invited to get the booster

I'm 60 and hoping to hear something by January.

[OnDoutside]

39. Same here in Ireland but they're now offering the booster for anyone

over 40, and they seem to be in a hurry to get as many as possible boostered asap.

[DonCoquixote]

57. probably some stupid friends

tryign to get hi back in to the antivax fold

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. I am so sorry, my dear kpete. This has got to hurt a lot.

He sure does need the booster shot, but that depends on how long ago he got the original vaccines.

I know this is hard, but try to be gentle in your persuasion. You don't want to have him dig in his heels.



If possible, make him quarantine in his room. That might be enough to get him to see the necessity of the booster. I hope!

[Laurelin]

3. I hope he'll get well very quickly

And I hope the beautiful grandchildren stay well.

Most Christmas cookies freeze well, for sharing with the family later. (I'm trying to be helpful, not snarky. I'm also missing my kids again this Christmas. )

[femmedem]

4. Oh no, kpete.

The worst is when covid comes between families, and the people who are vaxxed and cautious are stuck worrying about the people who aren't--the people they love even if they are acting stupidly and the people who have no choice, like your grandchildren.

I'm so sorry. Humbug is a mild response. I hope the DU people help, even if only a little.

[TexasTowelie]

5. I'm sorry that your plans for the holidays were altered

and I wish that your son had listened to the doctors instead of woo. I know that it's disappointing, but please try to keep your spirits up.

[LexVegas]

6. 1. Joe Rogan doesn't tell people not to get boosted. 2. Joe Rogan is not vaccinated.

So, does he really listen to Joe Rogan?

[vanlassie]

38. Apparently he's the best for young adult men.

Confusing the heck out of them from what I can tell. Practices a lot of “both sider ism.

[cadoman]

48. there's no both-siderism with Rogan, he is a MAGAT piece of shit

He was saying that face masks are the "MAGAT hat of the left".

[vanlassie]

51. Oh Jeez. What an ass.

[cadoman]

49. sounds like you've fallen for some misinformation passing as science, allow me to help you

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/facts.html

And I quote:

MYTH: The natural immunity I get from being sick with COVID-19 is better than the immunity I get from COVID-19 vaccination.

FACT: Getting a COVID-19 vaccination is a safer and more dependable way to build immunity to COVID-19 than getting sick with COVID-19.

Please exercise caution in "doing my own research" in the future. The best research is done by properly accredited professionals.

[Tracyjo]

52. +1

[womanofthehills]

54. Lasting immunity after Covid 19 - latest science

At a Glance

The immune systems of more than 95% of people who recovered from COVID-19 had durable memories of the virus up to eight months after infection.
The results provide hope that people receiving SARS-CoV-2 vaccines will develop similar lasting immune memories after vaccination. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19

And … from Washington Post

More than 15 studies have demonstrated the power of immunity acquired by previously having the virus. A 700,000-person study from Israel two weeks ago found that those who had experienced prior infections were 27 times less likely to get a second symptomatic covid infection than those who were vaccinated. This affirmed a June Cleveland Clinic study of health-care workers (who are often exposed to the virus), in which none who had previously tested positive for the coronavirus got reinfected. The study authors concluded that “individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from covid-19 vaccination.” And in May, a Washington University study found that even a mild covid infection resulted in long-lasting immunity. https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/15/natural-immunity-vaccine-mandate/

[cadoman]

55. there you go again

What qualifies you to read that and make a determination that you shouldn't get a booster? Are you a scientist? A doctor? An epidemiologist? A journalist?

Look, I don't mind if you read that kind of stuff for your personal amusement, in the same way you'd read a romance novel or a comic book (lord knows I do), but only the CDC and other accredited experts have the education and intelligence to read through something like that and make the final determination on what is best for our collective health.

Again:

MYTH: The natural immunity I get from being sick with COVID-19 is better than the immunity I get from COVID-19 vaccination.

FACT: Getting a COVID-19 vaccination is a safer and more dependable way to build immunity to COVID-19 than getting sick with COVID-19.

The FACT is right there, the MYTH (what you've been led to believe through misinformation and "doing my own research&quot is above it. You can read further if you want but you need to remind yourself to always come back to the FACTS, which are established through the rigor of scientific consensus.

If you're having trouble digesting facts, consider getting yourself fact-checked on a site like factcheck.org:

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/10/scicheck-already-had-covid-19-vaccines-boost-immunity-not-wipe-out-antibodies/

No thanks necessary for helping you to get your next booster. Pay it forward by keeping an eye out for misinformation and helping others who have fallen into the trap of self-research.

[orleans]

59. your first link says "up to eight months." UP TO; doesn't mean it WILL last for 8 months. could last

for three months. or less.

that link is from january--and it also says this:
"But the details of this immune response and how long it lasts after infection have been unclear. Scattered reports of reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 have raised concerns that the immune response to the virus might not be durable."

here is something from two months ago:

"For unvaccinated, reinfection by COVID-19 is likely, study finds
Strong protection following natural SARS-CoV-2 infection is short-lived
For the unvaccinated, reinfection by COVID-19 is likely, a new study finds."

https://www.nsf.gov/discoveries/disc_summ.jsp?cntn_id=303705&org=NSF&from=news
and just to repeat: For the unvaccinated, reinfection by COVID-19 is likely, a new study finds."


isn't that why we keep getting these new fucking variants? because people keep getting infected? this shit will never go away if we're all just gonna cross our fingers for that "natural immunity" especially if that "long lasting immunity" doesn't even mean for an eight month period of time.

what happens then? do people just hope they don't catch it again or do people finally decide to get the vaccine? if they catch it again will they be as lucky as the first (or second or third) time by not dying from it? and what about the other unvaxed people they spread it to and it kills them? is there no social conscious involved in this?

rant off. (it's late and i'm tired)

[herding cats]

73. UTMB RESEARCHERS DISCOVER NATURAL IMMUNITY OFFERS LITTLE PROTECTION AGAINST OMICRON

Unvaccinated individuals who were previously infected with COVID may not have as much natural immunity against the virus, especially when it comes to the new omicron variant.

"I've never seen anything like this," UTMB biochemistry professor, Dr. Pei-Yong Shi said.

Shi shared data from his research, showing how the level of natural immunity of unvaccinated individuals is nowhere near what it was in the past. In fact, it's about 16 folds lower than previous variants a month after the infection. The number drops even further if the infection was six months ago.

This means, if you had COVID in the past, and if you're unvaccinated, protection quickly fades against the omicron variant. The reason why is omicron has many more mutations than previous variants.

https://abc13.com/houston-coronavirus-utmb-research-omicron-variant-protecting-against/11372883/

This is the latest science.

[uponit7771]

61. I've not read that natural immunity is as good as the vaccines, you got a link for that? tia

[HUAJIAO]

69. "Most new studies say if you have had Covid you don't need the vaccine."

Not the case. CDC and others highly suggest getting a booster even if you have had covid as it adds more protection.

[pandr32]

7. So sorry

We are here to keep you company.
Merry Christmas!

[Nevilledog]

8. I have some Bailey's & coffee we can share.

[Ms. Toad]

9. I'm so sorry!

It's hard to watch kids make bad decisions.

My daughter is currently dating an anti-vax idiot. She assures me he is not right wing - but (1) being a COVIDiot is more dangerous at this point and (2) how can she fall for someone who is so lacking in independent thought that he can believe this crap.

I hate that she has exposure to this idiot (both emotionally and in terms of COVID) - and recognize that it is likely she'll get COVID from him at some point. The potential saving grace is that she is vaccinated and boosted, and will wear a mask at work even without enforcement until I tell her it is safe not to - AND - has an overactive immune system so she rarely gets ill from outside sources.

[Tree Lady]

10. Sorry we stayed home this year

But were going to try new restaurant until cases went up again so I canceled last night. I am bummed.

[viva la]

11. I'm sorry. I hate that Rogan guy--

he targets young white men, who are often quite susceptible to a kind of brotherly-authoritarian voice.

I heard an immunologist today who was looking at the SA and UK omicron data so far, and said even 2 shots is very good at reducing serious illness.

[LiberalFighter]

12. Sorry for your plight.

Idiots like Rogan would not had been tolerated 30 years ago.

He doesn't have a degree in anything. But likely would be eligible for a degree in stupidity.

Wikipedia info shows that he moved from Boulder, Colorado to California because they were concerned about high altitude impact on her pregnant wife. Wow!

[womanofthehills]

50. Actually my granddaughter got me listening to Joe Rogan

He interviews lots of really interesting people and asks good questions. He recently talked with Sanjay Gupta for 3 hours and his interviews with Jewel and Amanda Knox are really in depth interviews. He is a very curious person and asks really good serious questions of his guests. This is why his podcast is number one in the whole world. He had hundreds of 3 hr interviews with famous people - actually amazing.

He does not tell people to or not to get vaxxed. He just said what worked for him which was mainly monoclonal antibodies along with other treatments including vitamin drips, ivermectin, steroids etc.

[No Vested Interest]

58. The cost of monoclonal antibody treatment, given in a hospital or Dr. office,

far exceeds the cost of Covid-19 vaccination.
Does Rogan's insurance pay for this?

[tavernier]

67. Good luck getting monoclonal antibodies.

The criteria is different depending on a variety of factors, and many people end up too ill before they can be be helped. My adult kids (fully vaccinated but before booster was available) got Covid from an unvaccinated neighbor. They ended up getting the antibodies, but they needed to jump some hoops first.

[LiberalFighter]

72. By saying what he says works for him his encouraging others to follow what he does.

And just because he says he was infected does not mean he was and does not mean what he used worked.

It is also easy to suggest and possibly used so called treatment when he has the money to do it.

[Renew Deal]

13. He'll probably be "fine" by the 25th.

Most people I know get through it within a couple days. But not all.

[roamer65]

14. Omicron.

[kpete]

78. Alaska U.S. Rep. Don Young has died

Alaska U.S. Rep. Don Young died Friday, according to his former chief of staff.

Young, a Republican and the longest-serving member of Congress, lost consciousness on a flight from Los Angeles to Seattle, and couldn’t be resuscitated, said Jack Ferguson, a lobbyist who served as Young’s chief of staff.

“Everyone’s learning about it right at the moment. The phone’s ringing off the hook,” Ferguson said. “I’m sad to lose such a good friend, and a person that I’ve known all his political career.”

Young, a Republican, had served in Congress since 1973, when he was sworn in after winning a special election.

https://www.adn.com/politics/2022/03/18/alaska-us-rep-don-young-has-died-according-to-former-aides/

[mainer]

15. Oh dear. So many families in the same boat!

We have unvaxxed in our family and there's no diplomatic way to exclude them from Christmas. We're both boosted, so we feel somewhat safe but the subject just can't be brought up without fireworks.

[AmBlue]

16. I'm so sorry

Last edited Wed Dec 22, 2021, 09:29 PM - Edit history (1)

They don't stop to think of how their unwise decisions about not fully protecting themselves will roll out like dominoes, affecting so many others.

My 90yo mom who has leukemia lives with us and our 24yo college student son also lives with us. Well, he got the J&J vaccine initially, but also just decided to get the J&J booster as well, despite the recent reports of fatal complications and that only the mRNAs protect against infection by Omicron. I begged for him to get the Pfizer or Moderna booster but he would not listen, so now I get to worry he will catch a breakthrough and bring it home to my frail mother. GRRRRRrrrrr...

All that to say I feel your pain. Hope you manage to salvage something of the holidays.

[MLAA]

21. I'd make him wear a mask while at home or find a new place to live.

Easy for me to say since he isn’t my kid, but I too would be concerned about mom and tell him he needs to wear the mask to keep her safe.

[ShazzieB]

34. Me, too.

I know that would be a hard thing to do, but if he wants to be that stubborn over a simple shot, it's his choice to make, and no one else should have to pay the consequences.

[AmBlue]

42. We're at exactly that point.

Unfortunately. On the bright side, he hardly ever goes anywhere because of covid, so it should only be occasionally I have to be the mask enforcer. Still, I worry. Nothing's 100% safe.

[Skittles]

36. WTF

tell him to GET BOOSTED or GET THE FUCK OUT

RIDICULOUS

[AmBlue]

44. He got boosted

... it was just with the J&J, not one of the mRNAs which are the only ones to guard against infection by omicron.

[Crunchy Frog]

37. I'd throw him out of the house for the time being.

I live with my extremely healthy 82 year old mom, with my two twelve year old sons. Mom and I are both triple vaxxed Pfizer, and the boys are double vaxxed. Unfortunately their age group isn't allowed to get boosters. We even tried to cheat into getting them boosted, and didn't manage it.

We pulled them out of school, just to be on the safe side. We don't like feeling like we're in a constant game of Russian roulette. We may end up having to homeschool for awhile.

[AmBlue]

43. Totally understand

And I would do the same. Not into roulette either.

[Hekate]

17. Ohhhh

[Hortensis]

18. Hey, he'll be okay, and from what they're saying he'd have

gotten it even with the booster. This thing is incredibly infectious. Such a quick lesson so early won't hurt, though. And as long as you have them, you have great blessings to be happy about.

[DemUnleashed]

19. So sorry

So sorry to hear but I do think he and grandkiddos will be fine! But a shame that it put a damper on your Christmas plans

[IronLionZion]

20. Many fully vaccinated and boosted people have tested positive

despite being super careful this whole pandemic. That's how transmissible it is. My 22 year old coworker tested positive and she's fully vaxxed and boosted with mild symptoms. Same with several Dem politicians. Christmas cookies will kill me before COVID does.

[MLAA]

22. So sorry Pete!

I’d throw myself in front of a whole box of cookies for you if I could 💕

[ARPad95]

23. So sorry for you and your son. Hope he recovers quickly and fully and your grandchildren are spared.

We just cancelled our plans to go out-of-state to spend Christmas with two of our children because daughter-in-law tested positive today. Vaccinated, but not boosted.

[Stuart G]

24. Sorry.

[mountain grammy]

25. Hope he's better soon.. the two shots should help

I'm so sorry.

[GPV]

26. I'm so very sorry

[TNNurse]

27. I don't suppose it helps much to realize others are in the same situation.

You seem to have all the appropriate emotions listed.

Does the knowledge of all those anti-vax radio and TV people who have died not get through to them????

[AllaN01Bear]

28. eep

[samnsara]

30. dang that sux..i know a lot of ppl dont have boosters because they cant find them

..and my friend who is a near 80, cancer survivor had a severe nosebleed after her 2nd shot ( she was prone to them anyway..just lesser) and swears it was from the shot so she wont get boosted.

Hope he recovers soon. At what point did he decide to test himself?

[Cracklin Charlie]

31. I think it's gonna happen to us, too.

My granddaughter has run a temperature all week. Three unvaxxed little ones in their house. Waiting test results now.

I promised her we would do Christmas in some form…just probably not in the same room together this week.

[ShazzieB]

33. Ugh, that sucks, kpete!

So sorry to hear this.

EDITED TO ADD: I keep hearing about this Joe Rogan character, and it dawned on me that I didn’t actually know who he is, so I googled. Here's the first sentence of his Wikipedia entry

Joseph James Rogan (born August 11, 1967) is an American podcaster, UFC color commentator, comedian, actor, and former television presenter.

Sounds like a great set of credentials for for giving advice on immunology and public health.

[liberalla]

35. Did they tell him which variant he has? Is it omicron?

Is he staying separated from wife and children? Is that why they are certain everyone will be fine?

kpete, I'm sorry this has happened to your son... and I'm sorry your Xmas has been ruined!
I am hoping something happens to lift your spirit and 'save' your Xmas!

Next time he needs to remember this: Mother knows BETTER than rogan!

[Solly Mack]

40. May he make a speedy recovery. May the grandchildren remain Covid-free.

May you still find some joy in the midst of your disappointment.

If I could make it all better for you, I would.

[SunSeeker]

45. Sounds like my idiot friends who won't get boosted.

They think Omicron is no big deal.

[electric_blue68]

47. Oh, dear. May he recover completely, your grand kids stay safe.

[SYFROYH]

53. Did he actually get tested for COVID?

Could just be the flu.

[smirkymonkey]

56. So sorry, kpete.

This is a tough time of year for so many people, especially with Covid lingering so long. I think most people are at their limit with this. My family Christmas is still up in the air at this late date due to my mother's chemo treatment. In a way, I am hoping the doctors will talk her out of the intended plans as I don't think it will be best for her health.

[ancianita]

60. So sorry.

Same thing's happening in my family for the second Christmas holiday.

I neither understand my daughter's bad health judgment, nor respect my daughter's irresponsible use of her freedom. She has given me no choice but to say no to her and her family's holiday visits.

I feel you, kp.

[berni_mccoy]

63. Hugs kpete; so sorry

[Trueblue Texan]

64. so sorry to hear this...

It makes you want to scream. How could they be so careless with the ones you love? Wish I could help.

[wryter2000]

71. I'm so sorry

Honestly, you don’t have to do Christmas. I do church things because I always love church. But I ignore the rest of the holiday. It goes away if you leave it alone.

I hope your son recovers soon.

[Initech]

76. Joe Rogan is a fucking idiot.

[boston bean]

77. Very glad to see the update.