The Obscure Charge Jan. 6 Investigators Are Looking at for Trump

[Joinfortmill]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-obscure-charge-jan-6-investigators-are-looking-at-for-donald-trump?ref=scroll

While the DOJ pursues the rioters, the special House Jan. 6 Committee is separately collecting evidence to formulate a picture about how this all came together. And legal scholars say a strategy is taking shape—one that builds a case to criminally charge the former president.

“The DOJ and the committee are building a pyramid of guilt to get to the top. The more people who plead guilty, the more the top of the pyramid begins to take shape,” said Joshua E. Kastenberg, a professor at University of New Mexico’s law school.

Rep. Liz Cheney (R-WY), one of the two GOP members on the congressional panel investigating the insurrection, first drew attention to that possibility during a televised hearing last week. That’s when she made an obscure reference to “another key question before this committee: Did Donald Trump, through action or inaction, corruptly seek to obstruct or impede Congress’ official proceeding to count electoral votes?”

On Monday, The New York Times pushed that idea further when it revealed that the House committee investigating the insurrection is considering referring Trump to the Justice Department.

David Schultz, a law professor at the University of Minnesota, said congressional investigators could be building a case that Trump “aided and abetted” the rioters to interrupt the vote count. And Cheney’s statements, combined with the Justice Department’s aggressive use of this federal charge, hint at what might come.

“We are seeing a pattern of establishing an obstruction of justice that takes it up the food chain,” he said.

[Zorro]

1. Trump's incitement of the rioters was on live television, after all

It was in-your-face obvious -- he even said he was going to march down to the Capitol with them.

[Captain Zero]

12. And then he was in communication

With members of Congress during the electoral roll calls of the votes, having them slow down (impede) (obstruct) the process as it occurred.

This after imploring Pence to throw out votes of certain states. (suborning obstruction) which Pence refused to do. I look forward to Pence being called to provide his testimony on this matter.

Once the pyramid is built up to Trump.
Charge him.

[Justice matters.]

20. Although he said "peacefully" he watched the ransack for 187 minutes

after he tweeted about Pence, inciting them further to the point they yelled "hang mike pence"...

It was his job, according to Article II of the U.S. Constitution, which twice imposes a duty of faithful execution on the President, who must “take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed", to order (tweet) them to stop their assault and go home.

That's the evidence that is obvious. What he was doing during those 3 hours and 7 minutes of inaction.

[empedocles]

33. All on 'TV' !

[msfiddlestix]

2. Well, the 2nd Impeachment Trial was all about DJT's Guilt directly related to the Insurrection

A ton of evidence was brought forward and the case was brilliantly prosecuted in the Senate, it seemed to me.

Just saying, much of that work was done, but of course any additional evidence is gravy...

All that evidence the DOJ surely was given or at the least, is there to bring, if only the DOJ asked for it?

Puzzling.

just sayin: not that "obscure"... it was out in the open.

[Fiendish Thingy]

3. It's not that obscure of a charge, as several January 6 militia members are charged with it. Nt

[EYESORE 9001]

4. I was wondering what's obscure about aiding and abetting

Unless I’m mistaken, prosecutors file those charges quite often.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

6. Yes. Website writers own opinion of Cheney's single comment...obscure...then works said

opinion into the title. Lol

I defer to the professor and the whole of the article, unvarnished by silly manipulation, not the propagandists.


“The DOJ and the committee are building a pyramid of guilt to get to the top. The more people who plead guilty, the more the top of the pyramid begins to take shape,” said Joshua E. Kastenberg, a professor at University of New Mexico’s law school.”

Point also some miss…DOJ AND the committee…these are two different railway tracks ending at the same station.

[Fiendish Thingy]

8. It's not aiding and abetting, the charge is Obstructing a Congressional Proceeding.

That’s the text of the statute Cheney read out loud last week.

[mopinko]

18. official proceeding is what i think the wording is.

and someone tried to plead that it wasnt, and got shot down in court.

[Bayard]

5. You gotta hope

What looks like the DOJ's lack of action is because they are building a case to the top.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

9. Ofc sir. Building the Case of The Century...takes a lot of labour to build giant pyramids that

will withstand the political gale forces from the fascists and their enslaved media.

Egyptians understand, I wager.

[Wounded Bear]

10. DOJ is not supposed to telegraph what they're doing to the public...

I know that is little comfort for those of us who want to "lock him up" but it is true that telegraphing what they're doing just works in the defendent's favor.

I'm trying to be patient.

[SheltieLover]

7. K&R!

[CaptainTruth]

11. Note Liz Cheney's words...

"Did Donald Trump, through action or inaction, corruptly seek to obstruct or impede Congress’ official proceeding to count electoral votes?"

She's practically reading the text of the charge in question, using all the key words, all the legal conditions that have to be met, & just recently (4-5 days ago?) a judge ruled that the charge does apply to one of the insurrectionists (their attorneys argued it didn't). As soon as I saw that ruling I said it set a precedent for charging other insurrectionists & provided a possible path for going after Trump. Now we need a bunch of insurrectionists convicted, that will build the base of the pyramid that supports charges against those at the top of the pyramid.

[Beastly Boy]

13. This is what DOJ is waiting for. A referral from the Legislative branch.

Last edited Thu Dec 23, 2021, 02:43 PM - Edit history (1)

Anything other than that, no matter what DOJ does on its own initiative, will be immediately criticized as a partisan DOJ taking sides, especially as it relates to the Executive branch which DOJ is part of.

And, as we have seen on DU, accusations of partisanship are being thrown around even as DOJ remains completely neutral in the matter.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

16. Yes, Such a case has to be airtight all the way. . . . nt

[2naSalit]

26. +1

[Efilroft Sul]

14. Roger Stone and Alex Jones were telegraphing the intent of insurrection four years ago. Read this.

"Try to impeach him, just try it," [Roger] Stone said. "You will have a spasm of violence in this country, an insurrection like you’ve never seen."

"You're predicting that if he got impeached there'd be some sort of Civil War-type?" the cameraman asked Stone to clarify.

"Yes, that's what I think will happen."

https://www.salon.com/2017/12/22/alex-jones-and-roger-stone-prepare-for-civil-war-after-trump-is-removed-from-office/?fbclid=IwAR3pUuZBXfn9bRpTQr20N0KuZwwrDSBgSVzt_JPjm1TJ_RGikY1gy7aXMVs

It's interesting that two key Trump allies were using "insurrection" to describe how MAGA Nation would react if Trump were impeached or sent packing by the voters. You played yourselves, Roger and Alex.

[empedocles]

32. TY

[ancianita]

15. Obstruction of the election process, though obscure, is right up there with Obstruction of Justice.

It's a high crime when committed by elected officials through conspiracy and pretext.

Gym Jordan called the Willard Hotel command center AND stands as the linchpin who called Trump. The conspiracy connection is there and what's truly obscure is the defense of "coincidence" of them all talking while Congress and Pence were on the run.

[gab13by13]

17. Headline is false,

It is not an obscure charge or an obscure law.

1. Robert Mueller indicted a Russian troll farm on the exact same charge.
2. Chuck Rosenberg said he used it and won a case for the IRS.
3. I'm sure there are more instances that I am not aware of.

It just pisses me off when misleading headlines like this are used, it makes people assume the law is antiquated when it isn't.

[mopinko]

19. if the soldiers go to jail, but the generals dont

i suspect it wakes up a whole lot of people.
those grunts in jail will remember.
in no army do the grunts not notice when they get punished but the guys w the fruit salad skate.

i think it's sort of a win for us either way, politics-wise.
but it's the end of democracy if they get away w crimes of this magnitude.

[TeamProg]

21. It doesn't sound ALL THAT OBSCURE! No more so than many other laws on our books.

Even the Daily Beast is marginalizing our laws.

Sad shape of the MSM.

[KS Toronado]

22. Can't wait for us to "Lock Him Up"

Sure hope it's prior to the midterms, believe it would help us.

[OMGWTF]

23. We know Shitler was in charge because

the insurrectionists went home only when he told them to.

[calimary]

24. "The fish rots from the head."

I believe it was Michael Dukakis who once said that, or maybe his remark was the first time I’d heard such a quote.

The head of this particular (and rather putrid body of voters) is trump. All roads lead straight to him. All the bad roads, anyway.

[Marcuse]

25. RICO!

[empedocles]

31. Hopefully

[Lunabell]

27. Well I certainly hope this happens.

But you know it's going to incite his kkkrazy base to violence. Scary times.

[OMGWTF]

28. We got lucky they're stupid; now we need to nail and jail all of these traitors, especially TFG.

Otherwise J6 was just a dress rehearsal and America is dead.

[malaise]

29. Down he goes

Rec

[empedocles]

30. Very good

A Season's gift for all of us