I Tried to get a Second Booster Today

[NJCher]

Last edited Tue Dec 28, 2021, 05:46 AM - Edit history (1)

I was prompted to do so when I learned that the booster I received in late Sept. is down to 33-34% effectiveness (Pfizer). With Omicron, that's just not good enough.

However, I was not able to get it. I was told by the big vaccine/testing center near me that CDC has to approve it first.

With Pfizer, the booster is the same as the first two vaccines. With Moderna, it's half of what was in the first vaccines.

I think I could get it, regardless of what they told me, however, it would involve a little deception and I don't want to engage in that. Instead I will take a leave of absence from my job when school goes back in mid-January. I will not go on certain shopping trips that I'd like to go on. No bakery stops, either.

There was a story on NPR today about a reporter who got Covid Omicron version after he was measured for a suit for his upcoming wedding. That's where he think he got it. It is still something you don't want to get, even if it's not as bad as the Delta version.


Here's some info on the second booster:

Israel Begins Trial of Fourth COVID-19 Vaccine Dose

(JERUSALEM) — Israel has begun trials of a fourth dose of coronavirus vaccine in what is believed to be the first study of its kind.

The trial began at Sheba Medical Center, outside Tel Aviv, with 150 medical personnel who received a booster dose in August receiving a fourth shot of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. The staff receiving the additional dose were tested and found to have low antibody levels.

The trial came as Israeli officials have considered rolling out a second tranche of booster shots to its population as the country grapples with rising infections with the new omicron variant.

Prof. Jacob Lavee, former director of the heart transplant unit at Sheba, said “hopefully, we’ll be able to show here… that this fourth booster really provides protection against the omicron, which is highly needed.”


https://time.com/6131694/israel-covid-vaccine-fourth-dose-trial/

[SunSeeker]

1. Got a link for 33% booster effectiveness after 4 months?

I can't seem to find anything that says that.

[Croney]

11. Looks like it's somewhat true.

35% is with AstroZenica, so not in the US. But not much better--45%--with Pfizer. Confusing though.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/23/health/booster-protection-omicron.html

[SunSeeker]

41. That's what I thought. Thanks. nt

[Skittles]

2. so essentially

all the people who got the shots the earliest would have the oldest boosters - not a good situation since a lot of those early-birds were the elderly / immune compromised

[madville]

20. That was the theory a month or two ago as far as

Why states like CA were seeing higher infection rates and such than say FL, among the vaccinated.

People in CA got vaccinated at a higher rate/sooner than many people in FL so their immunity had waned more by that point in the cycle.

[littlemissmartypants]

3. There's a good chance you have an electronic medical record that

Reflects your vaccination record. That most likely would keep you from getting more than two initial vaccines and a booster which is currently the USA protocol. I may be wrong but that's the information I'm going on.

Regarding the Modern booster, it is a half dose under most criteria but it is a full dose if you are diagnosed with an autoimmune disease.

❤

[Maru Kitteh]

7. That's true but it's on a state-by-state basis, I believe. I report the COVID

Vaccines I give to my state database. Other states do not show up on our database.

[littlemissmartypants]

21. I don't understand your point. The CDC keeps the aggregate data.

Here's an excerpt from the Washington Post today about boosters:

Every fully vaccinated person in the United States age 16 or over is eligible to get a coronavirus booster shot as long as enough time has passed since their last vaccine dose, according to federal regulators.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Nov. 19 boiled its long list of criteria down to just two: age and date of vaccination. If your second dose of the Moderna or Pfizer-BioNTech vaccines was at least six months ago, you are eligible for a booster. Adults who received the Johnson & Johnson vaccine are eligible after two months.

[inthewind21]

23. The point

Is the OP is trying to get a second booster and it's not the protocol in the US.

[Maru Kitteh]

24. My point is that one could obtain a second booster by subterfuge

If they simply hop to a different state.

[littlemissmartypants]

28. Why would one want to? I think it's unethical and possibly a bad personal health decision.

Also, not very smart.

[Maru Kitteh]

33. I wouldn't. You wouldn't. People do though. The OP sought a second booster,

And did mention that they thought they could obtain one if they were willing to lie about it. They decided against it. You said there is probably a database. I said there is a database in my state, and because I report to it, I am able to see that only vaccines given in our state are present on it.

Before I give a person a vaccine, I check our database to make sure if they’ve had a vaccine, if they are eligible for the booster, and that it matches what is on their CDC card - if they have one. Many do not.

I have had patients who have recently moved from another state. I have to trust whatever record they provide me is accurate because It’s onerous to impossible to verify.

So to recap:
* OP sought a 2nd booster after reading about 4th dose studies in Israel. OP did not get a second booster after deciding against obtaining it through dishonesty.

* You said you think there’s some database but you weren’t sure.

* I said databases seem to be maintained on a state-by-state basis, as I report to one.

It is a near certainty that people have obtained 4th doses this way. The CDC collects aggregate data, not individual data. I report to them too. You are correct in stating that it is not ethical, and possibly ill-advised, but people do all kinds of thing when they are frightened.

[womanofthehills]

39. some scientists warn that too many shots might actually harm the body's ability to fight the coronav

Link to tweet

?s=21

[Maru Kitteh]

8. Nope.

No doc is going to risk their license to give you a COVID-19 vaccine outside of approved guidelines.

[NJCher]

13. Yes, called them

They said to just go to the vaccine center.

[dem4decades]

5. I also heard that there may be a problem with too many boosters effecting

Your immune system in a negative way, keeping it from making it work.

[FarPoint]

19. I heard that too...

One can exhaust the immune system for the virus....

[Doodley]

6. Unless you are at high-risk of having complications from Omicron, measure the ill-effects of your

anxiety against the risk of illness from Omicron or other covid variants. Which one is affecting your health?

[NJCher]

14. Question makes an assumption

That is not necessarily the case, so it makes no sense.

[markie]

9. got a second booster yesterday

got first 2 shots with Vermont Department of Health, booster with my primary... the State kept bugging me to get my booster (guess they don't communicate) so I figured what the hell... I'll be the trial

arm just a bit sore

[ecstatic]

40. Wow! Keep us posted! Nt

[markie]

45. right now... arm sore

and just general blah (unlike the first three) but overall ok...

[hlthe2b]

10. Spend your energy upgrading your masks to N95. If you have a validated autoimmune disease

or another issue that renders you immunocompromised, CDC guidelines DO allow for a 4th dose, six months after your third dose. Otherwise, you are like me and all other front-line health care workers relying on PPE and not taking in community, social, or other high risks activities to remain safe.

I get what you are feeling, but believe me no one is at higher risk than those of us working in ERs throughout the country right now, and the stress is what will get us all if we don't find perspective. You CAN control your risk and even your booster dose still remains effective in lowering your risk for severe disease.

[NJCher]

12. Already do that

But thanks for the ideas anyway. Maybe someone else can benefit.

I work with little ones who are unvaccinated.

[cally]

47. WHat? CDC allows a 4th shot for Immunocompromised?

My spouse is highly susceptible right now? I have not seen this recommendation anywhere?

[hlthe2b]

48. It is in the ACIP guideline and has been. See below. It is allowed six months after the 3rd dose

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommendations/immuno.html?s_cid=10483:immunocompromised%20and%20covid%20vaccine:sem.ga:p:RG:GM

Moderately to severely immunocompromised people ages 18 years and older who received an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine primary series, and an additional primary mRNA vaccine may get a booster shot 6 months after completing their vaccine primary series.

Additional Primary Shot and Booster Shot for Some Immunocompromised People

After completing the primary series, some moderately or severely immunocompromised people should get an additional primary shot.

Everyone 16 years and older, including immunocompromised people, should get a booster shot. If you are eligible for an additional primary shot, you should get this dose first before you get a booster shot.

Who Is Moderately or Severely Immunocompromised?

People are considered to be moderately or severely immunocompromised if they have:

Been receiving active cancer treatment for tumors or cancers of the blood
Received an organ transplant and are taking medicine to suppress the immune system
Received a stem cell transplant within the last 2 years or are taking medicine to suppress the immune system
Moderate or severe primary immunodeficiency (such as DiGeorge syndrome, Wiskott-Aldrich syndrome)
Advanced or untreated HIV infection
Active treatment with high-dose corticosteroids or other drugs that may suppress your immune response

People should talk to their healthcare provider about their medical condition, and whether getting an additional primary shot is appropriate for them.

[cally]

49. Thanks

I found it after I posted. It’s great news for my family. Spouse is very, very susceptible to severe illness and death if he gets covid. He had his 3rd in August, so anxious for February when he can get another.

[Meowmee]

15. Pfizer is working on a booster

Or another version which will be more effective against omicron, or so I heard on news. But it won’t be available until April supposedly. Israel is way ahead in many aspects.

[Irish_Dem]

16. CVS here is offering 4th shot for people with immune problems.

And CVS doesn't verify if you have immune problems.
They give it out to anyone who checks yes.

[Meowmee]

30. Where are you?

[Demsrule86]

35. That is it...they don't make you prove anything.

[Ms. Toad]

37. Got a link to that?

CVS is where I've been getting my vaccinations, and I don't see any suggestion that a 2nd booster/4th shot is available for people with immune problems.

The CDC does suggest an additional primary shot for people with severely to moderately compromised immune systems. Is that what you're talking about?

[Irish_Dem]

46. If you go to the CVS website ...

Go to the scheduling section for vaccines.

It gives you four choices:
1st dose
2nd dose
3rd dose Booster
4th dose shot (extra dose for immune system issues)

I have immense system problems and can schedule the 4th shot now if I want.
But I am going to wait until I hear more.
My booster was a full shot, not half. I don't want to overdo it.

But when you go in, they don't ask for proof of issues.

[Walleye]

17. I got my third Pfizer in August and I'm starting to get kind of nervous.Don't know what to do

[SunSeeker]

50. I got my 3rd Pfizer November 1. Not sure what to do either.

Other than mask up and try to do all my gatherings outdoors - which isn't easy in winter.

[Tomconroy]

18. Probably not a good idea to panic over the results of a study

whose results may or may not pan out. I think it said Moderna held up for what that's worth.

[littlemissmartypants]

22. I don't think it's ethical to try to get a second booster when many people are yet to have their

First. It appears we share that tack.

❤

[inthewind21]

25. I don't think it's the wisest health decision

To try and get a 4th shot (a mere 3 months after the first booster) when the trials haven't even been completed. Israel just started doing clinical trials this past Monday. With all due respect, trying to get another booster before trials are complete is akin to running to the feed store because you heard Ivermectin will stop the virus. There's no medical/scientific conclusion either way.

[littlemissmartypants]

27. I completely agree. ❤

[48656c6c6f20]

38. At a personal level I agree.

I've waited my turn the whole time. But, I get it. The fear is there and it's valid to people. I think the moral responsibility should be on American leadership. We could step up to the plate, make this a Manhattan project. Pull out all the stops from research to delivery and unequivocally tell the world, we're going to vaccinate you, no strings attached , friend or foe. That's the America we need.

[greenjar_01]

26. WTF?

[Kaleva]

29. This Friday I'll be getting my 1st booster shot.

[Meowmee]

31. I share your concerns

I share your concerns, I am in a similar situation now and I’m not sure what I am going to do, it is obvious to me this country is not going to do anything to protect any of us that are high-risk and who are being put in a position to be exposed more than others.

[JustAnotherGen]

32. I had mine

The third week of November. My Rheumatologist is advising me to get boosted in early February.

Is this something your Doctor could intervene on your behalf?

[Demsrule86]

34. Go to CVS and only give them the first two vaccine dates...then get another shot. I mixed mine as

doctor recommended and I am the only one who was at Thanksgiving (two daughters and hubs) who didn't get Covid. Could be a coincidence or it could be the shot. It was my third shot and no one asked me anything. The same was true with Walgreens.

[RB TexLa]

36. Go to a retail pharmacy and offer to pay.

They will do it for cash.

[ecstatic]

42. Personally, I think we all need to slow down a little.

I think it's too soon to think about a fourth shot, but it'll be interesting to see what happens. We're still in unprecedented territory and, at a certain point, you have to let your body have the opportunity to do what it was vaccinated to do.

Meanwhile, studies show a way to assess whether you're at risk of severe covid disease. Maybe run your numbers and then go from there? Don't use it for a false sense of security but for additional perspective. https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216110934

[NJCher]

43. I'll check that out, but are you aware that

it's been scientifically shown that the booster declines in its effectiveness?

It's the article from Business Insider.

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-long-does-booster-protection-omicron-covid-last-study-2021-12

-------

on edit: I read the thread you recommended. Yes, that certainly might be something to look into. I have to understand it a little better first, and then I will call my doc to see if she thinks I should do some tests.

[muriel_volestrangler]

44. Don't, yet. The NYT link above has this:

In a recent interview on WCBS-AM, a New York radio station, Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the nation’s leading infectious disease doctor, said that officials were monitoring the effectiveness of mRNA boosters against Omicron.

“I do think it’s premature, at least on the part of the United States, to be talking about a fourth dose,” he said. Israel is weighing whether to give a fourth shot to its citizens.

Some scientists have warned against a fourth shot, noting that there is not yet evidence that it is necessary and that some immune cells might eventually stop responding to the shots if too many doses are given.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/23/health/booster-protection-omicron.html

Your Israeli link shows they are testing a fourth shot - they don't know if it helps yet. For symptomatic disease, the drop for 3 shots of Pfizer is from 70% to 45%. They think the drop in the protection against serious disease won't be as much.