Greta Thunberg

[catsudon]

needs a new advisor or she will run out of allies.

[Celerity]

1. context?

[comradebillyboy]

3. Greta Thunberg Slams Biden Over Climate Policy:

Greta Thunberg Slams Biden Over Climate Policy: ‘U.S. is Actually Expanding Fossil Fuel Infrastructure’

Greta Thunberg criticized President Joe Biden’s climate policy, saying it’s “strange” he’s considered a leader in the movement.

Thunberg made the comments during a recent interview with the Washington Post, in which she was asked if she is inspired by any world leaders, and specifically “by President Biden?”

“If you call him a leader,” Thunberg replied. “I mean, it’s strange that people think of Joe Biden as a leader for the climate when you see what his administration is doing.”

The climate change activist went on to note that the “U.S. is actually expanding fossil fuel infrastructure.”

https://www.mediaite.com/biden/greta-thunberg-slams-biden-over-climate-policy-u-s-is-actually-expanding-fossil-fuel-infrastructure/

Joe isn't pure enough for her.

[ChazII]

7. Your last sentence

nails it, imho.

[Celerity]

37. Revealed: Biden administration was not legally bound to auction gulf drilling rights

Justice department admits a previous ruling did not force the detonation of what environmentalists call ‘huge carbon bomb’

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/dec/13/revealed-biden-administration-was-not-legally-bound-to-auction-gulf-drilling-rights

The Biden administration admitted that a court decision did not compel it to lease vast tracts of the Gulf of Mexico for oil and gas drilling, shortly before claiming it was legally obliged to do so when announcing the sell-off, the Guardian can reveal.

Last month, the US government held the largest-ever auction of oil and gas drilling leases in the Gulf of Mexico’s history, offering up more than 80m acres of the gulf’s seabed for fossil fuel extraction. The enormous sale, which took place just four days after crucial UN climate talks in Scotland, represented a spectacular about-turn from Joe Biden’s previous promise to halt offshore drilling and was denounced by outraged environmental groups as a “huge carbon bomb”.

The president’s administration insisted it was obliged to hold the lease sale due to a court ruling in favor of a dozen states that sued to lift a blanket pause placed on new drilling permits by Biden.

But a memo filed by the US Department of Justice before the lease sale acknowledges that this judgement does not force the government to auction off drilling rights to the gulf.

snip



'Purity' has nothing to due it, that is a strawman.

The wilful misleading of the public on that disastrous drilling rights auction is not a good look at all.

Post 6 and post 10 below are valid points for me.

[Disaffected]

42. Good grief.

This is so wrong on two fronts:

. opening an new enormous area for drilling

. doing it while falsely claiming there was a legal obligation to do so

No wonder Ms. Thunberg is pissed about it.

What next? The Artic Wildlife Refuge?

[Celerity]

74. yep

What next? The Artic Wildlife Refuge?

[catsudon]

2. she is slaming our president

and i don't want to post something negative like that.

she, of all people should know that Biden is an allie and not an enemy.

[Effete Snob]

10. She is slamming the fact that the US is going to do fuck all about climate change

She does not seem to have a history of interest in gaining "allies", but seems principally motivated by her opinions about climate change.

There are a lot of teenagers in Sweden. Find one with opinions you like.

[Celerity]

58. +1

[Effete Snob]

4. I doubt she's interested in "allies"

And I further doubt that a foreign leader of the country with the 14th highest per capita greenhouse gas emissions, who is attempting to fund the construction of bigger roads for private automobiles, is much of an "ally" to her.

How many "advisors" did you have when you were 18?

Humans as a species have decided we aren't going to give a fuck about climate change and that's just the way it is. That's bound to upset her or anyone else who prioritizes things that way.

[W_HAMILTON]

48. Without allies, she's just yelling into the wind.

[Effete Snob]

49. Yes. That's all she's ever done

She is a creature of the media.

I don’t know how she came to be the only teenager on earth with an opinion to which the news media treats us, but she is hardly the only privileged teenager on the planet with opinions.

Her schtick is scolding people, in the event one had not noticed this previously.

[aocommunalpunch]

5. Allies will be determined by the severity of the coming climatic change.

The bed has been made. It's going to be an uncomfortable sleep.

[Kaleva]

43. +1

[WhiskeyGrinder]

6. She's not wrong though.

The Biden administration has opened up the largest offshore drilling auction in U.S. history and has approved thousands of oil and gas permits on public and tribal lands.

[Effete Snob]

8. Yep

As a society, we've made a choice and we're going to run with it.

I think the OP's conflict is more a problem of "caring what Greta Thunberg thinks about it".

[WhiskeyGrinder]

9. Yep.

[Caliman73]

27. My opinion for what it is worth...

I think the OP is upset that Thunberg is criticizing a popular Democratic President.

We (Democrats) are the good guys. Republicans are the bad guys. When Republicans seek to expand fossil fuel use it is because they are evil. When Democrats appear to be expanding, or at least not reducing fossil fuel use, well, that is complicated, and it isn't the same, and YOU JUST SHUT UP, BE AN ALLY, criticize Republicans not President Biden.

[Effete Snob]

40. Well, unfortunately for Ms. Thunberg

She apparently believes that climate change is more important than rooting for the good guys.

[ret5hd]

11. I posted on another thread this morning:

We ALL know what needs to happen. We ALL know… there is no way the human race can continue on this path. We also ALL know that we (now using the royal “we”) will never ever do what needs to be done. We will sacrifice our children, our grandchildren, our pets, our friends and their offspring, one and all, each and every one, to keep that bit of comfort, warmth, and ease that is given by modern life.

We insist, wail, scream…”There simply MUST be a cheat-code, a technicality, a loophole, that will enable us to carry on as usual…driving, mining, burning, spreading poisonous filth into the water and soil…knowing all the while that this hope is futile.

We all know it. But we will all carry on, pretending that our action of putting our gum wrappers in the proper receptacle will somehow save the species.

But we know. We know.

[Effete Snob]

12. I keep asking everyone else to do something about overpopulation

...but there they are.

Here's a fun one... if you show up at a restaurant without reservations, tell the other people waiting, "It's really crowded here and it's going to be a long wait, so could you please leave?"

[ret5hd]

14. Well, I did a part, a small part, my very small part...short of suicide...

one child (foolish foolish ugly sentiments of youth and unopened eyes), and a vasectomy.

If you notice, I didn't leave myself out of the "royal we"...we me we me we me...I fully acknowledge my part in this charade, this search for a cheat-code. But I can no longer pretend, even in daylight with the bustle of life drowning out the inner voice, that this is any more than a charade. So I drop my gum wrapper in the proper receptacle, switch on the computer...

[hunter]

15. Other than Canada, one less U.S.A. human is equal to two to eight humans elsewhere.

Depopulating affluent car-culture U.S.A. gives us the biggest bang for our buck.

That's the crux of the problem. How do you convince people to scrap their cars and increase the population density of their suburbs, thus creating attractive walkable communities?

Recently I've changed my mind about nuclear power. With the human population approaching 8 billion I think we've worked ourselves into a corner where high density energy sources are required to feed and shelter us all. Nuclear power is the only energy source capable of displacing fossil fuels entirely.

"Renewable" energy sources such as wind and solar will only prolong our dependence on fossil fuels, especially natural gas. There's more than enough natural gas in the ground to destroy whatever is left of earth's natural environment and our world civilization.

[Dirty Socialist]

28. You're right. Nuclear could work

Especially the nuclear types being developed, like Thorium reactors and maybe fusion. Full speed on the new nuclear!

[Klaralven]

16. The usual outcome at the restaurant is --

some aren't served and leave,

some get botulism and salmonella,

some exit in the brawl over the remaining dishes.

[Effete Snob]

53. Yeah

That will pretty much be the outcome for humanity too.

Buncha people bummed out that the World’s Most Important Teenager With An Opinion doesn’t share all of their opinions.

[JI7]

63. Overpopulation is not a problem. People have less kids with higher standards of living and higher

standards of living means more cars, flying, buying crap etc .

[Effete Snob]

64. Good point

By the way, it's 2022, where's my flying car?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

13. Well said.

[gulliver]

25. Of course she's wrong

If a president does 90% good for the climate, that's different from one who does 90% bad. That should be completely obvious to the casual observer. If anyone, including Ms. Thunberg, fails to present that fact, that huge disparity in good vs. bad in every communication and in every forum, then they are, ipso facto, wrong. They are unwittingly on the side of wrong, perhaps, but they are abetting it.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

35. It's not her job to prop up Biden's (admittedly not great) climate accomplishments or grade anyone

on a scale. How do you calculate "90% good for the climate," anyway? What's the formula?

[gulliver]

38. That's wrong. She "took the job" of defending the climate.

It's that simple. She and no one else who wishes to be considered on the side of the Earth's climate should undermine the better president. Anyone who does that repeatedly is flatly on the side of wrong and should be considered part of the problem. Let's hope Ms. Thunberg learns this. Otherwise, she just becomes a tool for the other side.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

39. Better president than what?

[Effete Snob]

54. Than pussy-grabbing guy

By all means we should save the planet as long as it isn’t inconvenient for me, and those people in China keep making my stuff.

Or maybe people in the US should make my stuff, as long as it doesn’t cost more or pollute anything near me.

[muriel_volestrangler]

57. Do you genuinely think Joe Biden inspires the world about climate change?

If so, why? What evidence do you have that many people (who aren't DUers) think he's a great climate leader?

[JI7]

59. Why does the world need to be inspired about Climate Change ?

[muriel_volestrangler]

60. That was the question she was asked. Do any world leaders inspire her about the climate,

particularly Biden?

"Are you inspired by any of the world leaders, by President Biden?"

"If you call him a leader — I mean, it’s strange that people think of Joe Biden as a leader for the climate when you see what his administration is doing. The U.S. is actually expanding fossil fuel infrastructure. Why is the U.S. doing that?"

That's the extent of the "undermining" that is being complained about in this thread.

[JI7]

61. Unless people want to give up their lifestyle

we will need those things until we can get cleaner energy sources. That's what Biden is trying to get in his bill.

This is just the reality. People get upset even when I say not to use balloons during celebrations.

As we saw with covid even people dying around them doesn't get people to give up things to make things safer.

[muriel_volestrangler]

65. The reality is that people in the West do need to give up some of their lifestyle

eg most flying for leisure (it's going to be a long time before carbon-neutral flight exists). "The driving season" should similarly become a phrase from an antiquated past. The point is that there aren't leaders acknowledging this. There's a horrible conflation of "we will need those things" and "we will want those things".

[Effete Snob]

62. In a couple of weeks, we'll be asking a groundhog what it thinks of the upcoming weather

...with as much practical impact upon it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

66. That seems rather unfair to President Biden

He has some impact, it's just not inspirational. He's pushing, overall, in the right direction. It will make a bit of difference to future climate, but there's much more to be done.

[Effete Snob]

68. Take it up with the groundhog

I guess he'll have to see if he can get re-elected without the critical Swedish teenager voting bloc.

[gulliver]

70. The job of an effective climate leader is both to be inspired and to inspire

This is why the OP is so spot on. Ms. Thunberg needs better advice. She's been a fighter, a frank, eloquent, angry voice. She's been heard. She's been an inspiration. But she needs an ever-growing wave of allies, and she needs to encourage those who, like Biden, are in fact leading the world in real action on climate change. It's not an easy thing to do.

It's undeniable that Biden is night and day superior to Trump and Bush and that the world knows it. The media knucklehead who asked Thunberg whether she was "inspired" was, as usual, illustrating why the media are part of the problem. They need big, warm, fuzzy emotions from their sources in raw form to keep making payroll and careers, so they prod for feel-good, feel-bad extremes like "inspiration."

Anyone who's not inspired by Biden doesn't have their inspiration circuitry calibrated to Earth levels. I don't look for some mythical leader to swoop in with a host of angels and order everyone to drive less and turn down their thermostats. I look for someone who pushes with all their might against the walls that are closing in and gets them to slow down. To me, that's very inspirational. That's pop-the-cork worthy of celebration.

[muriel_volestrangler]

71. "superior to Trump and Bush" is such a low bar, it's laughable

Sorry, but your "Earth levels" of inspiration aren't the Earth; they're DU, with our automatic wish to see Democrats as good as we possibly can. The thing is, Biden is not "pushing with all his might". We've seen that, in reply #37.

[BlackSkimmer]

31. +1. nt

[Midnight Writer]

17. I don't think the solutions for climate change will come from the political sphere.

I think it will come from innovations in energy collection, transmission, and efficiency.

We can't even get people on board with national health care, even though it would benefit nearly everyone.

[Disaffected]

18. More's the pity.

The fact that she is pretty much bang on in her comments, and actions, seems sadly irrelevant to many.

As she says, "Blah, blah, blah".

[VarryOn]

21. Her message is largely truth, and we need to hear it...

But the scolding, sanctimonious style turns many off, me included.

[Disaffected]

22. I don't view her "style"

in quite the same way. IMO she is simply telling it like it is and if it comes across to some as scolding or sanctimonious, that's unfortunate but it should not detract from the message.

BTW. there are a lot of political and corporate leaders in positions to help if they wished who could use a good scolding and, a kick in the ass for that matter.

[VarryOn]

32. I agree there are many that need a good scolding...

But so few good “scolders”. I mean those that make you feel like a child when your on the receiving end!

My wife is good at it, albeit blessed with a lack of interest in politics. There have been a few times I’d just as soon be beat with a sock full of pennies than to continue to hear about some minor failure of mine! (I jest somewhat as I’ve rarely gotten a stem-winder from her! Lol)

I bet Elizabeth Warren can scold well. I’m sure there are others.

WJC probably has a nomination for one! Lol.

[Caliman73]

29. Did the scolding style turn you off when she was excoriating Trump?

Just curious about the consistency. Everyone absolutely loved her when she was laying into Trump. AND...before you go there, I an NOT saying the Trump and Biden are the same. I am saying that Thunberg isn't seeing that much difference in the actions of the United States on climate change under either administration and is saying as much.

[VarryOn]

34. I didn't see it, but if I were to make an exception...

One for him would work for me.

[Effete Snob]

55. She wasn't laying into Trump in particular anyway

Last edited Wed Dec 29, 2021, 09:26 AM - Edit history (1)

Whatever. People saw a video clip or a picture they liked. She got lots of likes and five stars on Yelp. Next?

[Sympthsical]

19. Don't Look Up n/t

[llashram]

20. at least

she...truly...cares. Without corporate or political consideration()s)

[fescuerescue]

23. I liked her when she was slamming Trump

Not so much now that she is slamming Biden.

I think she needs to spend more time in school.

[Caliman73]

30. Well, at least that is an honest sentiment.

One I disagree with but honest.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

36. Lol I can't tell if this is satire or not.

[fescuerescue]

41. I know this. Here comments wouldn't be allowed on DU

[gulliver]

24. We need to remember that "Greta" is mainly just a media phenomenon

She's an interesting character for the media's storyline assembly line. She's a two-edged sword for the climate change fight, obviously. If she puts down Trump and the gang of polluters and climate deniers, she's doing right. If she criticizes Biden and fails to give him massive props for what he has done (because she evidently doesn't keep up on the facts), then she's doing wrong.

The OP is spot on.

[hatrack]

26. Atmospheric CO2 content continues to rise, 2021 saw record-high coal emissions . . . .

And the Biden Administration green-lighted 80 million acres of GOM oil & gas lease sales the week after the climate summit in Glasgow.

Days after President Biden told world leaders that his administration is committed to slowing climate change with "action, and not words," his Interior Department oversaw one of the largest oil and gas lease sales in American history. They argued that they were legally compelled to do so.

Eighty million acres of the Gulf of Mexico — an area twice the size of Florida — was put on the auction block on Wednesday. Energy companies, led by Exxon Mobil Corp., placed bids on just a total of 1.7 million acres, and it's unclear how much of that will later be developed.

EDIT

https://www.npr.org/2021/11/17/1056713397/the-biden-administration-sold-oil-and-gas-leases-days-after-the-climate-summit

However . . . .

The Biden administration admitted that a court decision did not compel it to lease vast tracts of the Gulf of Mexico for oil and gas drilling, shortly before claiming it was legally obliged to do so when announcing the sell-off, the Guardian can reveal.

EDIT

The president’s administration insisted it was obliged to hold the lease sale due to a court ruling in favor of a dozen states that sued to lift a blanket pause placed on new drilling permits by Biden. But a memo filed by the US Department of Justice before the lease sale acknowledges that this judgement does not force the government to auction off drilling rights to the gulf.

“While the order enjoins and restrains (the department of) interior from implementing the pause, it does not compel interior to take the actions specified by plaintiffs, let alone on the urgent timeline specified in plaintiffs’ contempt motion,” wrote government lawyers to the federal court in Louisiana in August. The issuance of new drilling permits would require further steps under federal laws, the memo states, adding that “the court’s order does not compel the agency to act in contravention of these other authorities”.

EDIT

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/dec/13/revealed-biden-administration-was-not-legally-bound-to-auction-gulf-drilling-rights

I think that President Biden should be held to a higher standard of accountability, credibility and seriousness than, say, Putin, Xi or Bolsonaro - after all, they're dictators or aspiring dictators, and who holds them to account? And while his efforts to date have been infinitely better than the Shambling Shitstain who preceded him, they're still only a start, shot through with a fair amount of BAU, and we're out of time for BAU.

[Caliman73]

33. Good post. Thanks.

I would only differ in the idea that President Biden should be held to a higher standard of accountability. I think all should be held to a higher level of accountability. I do think that since, per capita, the US is responsible for more CO2 emissions, that we have more work to do. I also believe that we have a better shot at the technology to clean up than other countries. It should not however, simply be that because President Biden is more accountable that he should be more widely criticized.

Climate activists should base their criticisms not on who is in charge but on the actions taken (or not) by the countries.

[Kaleva]

44. Climate change is already here. Reducing emissions won't do much.

One is going to have to eliminate emissions all together and also remove the emissions already in the atmosphere.

Nobody wants to do so climate change will soon be a wild ride for those of us who aren't expected to die within the next few years.

IMHO, Greta's message should be that we need to prepare for what's coming. The window to actually prevent climate change closed some 20 years ago.

[Caliman73]

45. Yes that is true, but continuing on the path we are still on will make it worse.

Also, the point of the thread is that Thunberg should not criticize Joe Biden. To me, it is basically saying, "You can criticize people that I don't like, who are not doing the correct thing, but you cannot criticize people that I do like, who may be doing some of those same things."

We are definitely writing a death sentence for a lot of us.

I think that the bulk of her message is that the people in power need to "Do Something" and not continue with the status quo.

[Kaleva]

56. Some scientists believe we may be very near or already past the point of "Do Something"

Humans should be instead preparing to adapt.

Those who live in areas that are expected to be hit by drought, severe winters, forest fires, rising sea levels, extreme wet bulb temperatures, tornados, and hurricanes ought to already have plans in place to relocate or have already relocated to other regions expected to not be hit so hard like parts of Appalachia, the upper Great Lakes region, parts of Canada and Alaska.

[marie999]

46. In 1985 Carl Sagan spoke to Congress about climate change.

They listened politely, thanked him, and then did nothing. Nothing of significance has been done or will be done.

[NickB79]

47. Greta sees the future more clearly than 99% of the people out there

IE, a coming mass extinction event to rival the asteroid that ended the dinosaurs.

Seas rising FEET in her lifetime, swamping coastal cities

The destruction of most of the planet's rainforests.

The extinction of most coral reefs.

The Arctic becoming ice-free, at first in the summer and eventually year-round.

Positive feedback loops thawing and releasing billions of tons of CO2 and methane from the tundra.

Vast forest fires raging through North America, Europe and Siberia.

Global food shortages as farmland is abandoned, and the ensuing social unrest, wars over natural resources, disease and collapse that will threaten.

Hundreds of millions left as climate refugees, desperately fleeing North as areas close to the Equator become uninhabitable, while protectionist, nationalistic rhetoric takes hold in cooler nations to keep them out.

These are all what we're looking at by the end of the 21st century unless we act NOW. Not gradually over 20 years, "by 2050", blah blah blah. It's what my 11 yr old daughter gets to look forward to. In that context, I'd say Greta is holding in the justified, blinding rage she should be feeling pretty fucking well.

[marie999]

51. Right now, around Jacksonville NC this week, our nighttime lows in the mid 60s

which is 10 degrees higher than our average daytime highs. Our highs are near or above record highs. We are expected to get a couple of cooler days next week. I truly believe that we have passed the tipping point. I try not to think of what our great-grandchildren's lives will be like.

[Act_of_Reparation]

50. Because we are always above reproach.

[SYFROYH]

52. If you dont think Biden should be fairly criticized...

… you’re admitting she is correct.

Lets face, Greta will be around a lot longer fighting for the environment than Joe.

[demmiblue]

67. Nah, you're wrong about that.

She'll be just fine in that regard. Thanks for your concern, though!

P.S. Don't look up!

[jalan48]

69. The fossil fuel industry is a powerful force in US politics. To our detriment.

[oioioi]

72. DON'T LOOK UP!

[bigtree]

73. what political obligation does a Swedish environmental activist have to a US president?

...just a guess, but I don't think her environmental activism is predicated on fealty to the U.S. presidency.