Is Anyone Else TERRIFIED That A Bishop Is Running For President?

[JaneyVee]

That is the final check mark off the list of Mitt Romney, Paul Ryan, & the GOPs agenda. Looking at this list it is painstakingly clear what the RWNJs plan for America is: Theocratic-Fascism. Just like Iran. There isn't an item on this list the GOP doesn't adhere to. And NOW finally, religion & government intertwined; Bishop Romney.

[WinkyDink]

1. Not exactly afraid; more astonished at the absolute silence in the Media on the facts.

[gordianot]

8. From what I have read control of mass media makes Fascism possible.

As long as the likes of Richard Murdoch continues to gain power Fascism will ascend.

[JaneyVee]

16. Don't forget Rupert Murdoch, who is gobbling up mass media exponentially.

[gordianot]

66. True the son carrying on worries me.

[CanonRay]

2. A friend of mine and I have been discussing exactly that

He's scared shitless of a Mormon bishop in the White House. I think it is dangerous.

[JaneyVee]

7. Christian conservatives should also be scared shitless. There is NO breaking the Mormon bond.

It will direct his every decision. And his strings are EASILY pulled.

[nc4bo]

36. I'm guilty of being an FB crude antagonist this a.m. and I don't care anymore......

STATUS: OMG got up this morning, chilly lovely fall-ish day and 3rd thought (1st one was Thank God I'm alive/family is well! and where's the coffee?) was:

How fun would it be to have a Cage Match between the Mormons and the Evangelical Christians!!?!

Not enough popcorn in the world for that one.

Comments

African American/Fundie/Romney values voter: The Word of God needs no debate it can stand alone

My response: Well seems there are 2 religions with 2 different beliefs are vying for control of America. Heaven vs Kolob.

African American/Fundie/Romney values voter: um ok

My response: Separation of church and state - works for all religions and all 300 million Americans!

African American/Fundie/Romney value voter: **crickets**

--------------

And so it goes..........perhaps she'll look Kolob up this morning.

[CanonRay]

53. Religion and Politics are a deadly combination

Which is why the framers of the constitution tried very hard to keep them apart. They were the result of hundreds of years of religious bloodshed. Good on you for being an antagonist.

[Ilsa]

3. Mormonism is a cult, from everything I've seen,

but religious fundamentalists have temporarily embraced it, which is sickening.

There are websites with testimonials from ex-Mormons. Very interesting reads.

[JaneyVee]

5. Romney's Bishop title is equivalent to Cardinal Dolan running for President. Sickening.

I'd vote for Jim Jones before before I'd ever vote for Mitt Romney.

[dragonlady]

23. Not quite

In the LDS church a bishop is the leader of a local congregation, like a pastor but as a lay person, not ordained. The LDS bishop is not part of the official church hierarchy like a Roman Catholic bishop. (I learned this when I did genealogy research at an LDS center.) Romney is obviously very influential in the Mormon church, but not just because he was a bishop.

[JaneyVee]

30. But extremely similar ideologies:

From the church website:

"Church leaders have said that some exceptional circumstances may justify an abortion, such as when pregnancy is the result of incest or rape, But even these circumstances do not automatically justify an abortion".

[ProgressiveProfessor]

48. Minor quibble, Romney is ordained

LDS does not require the divinity school gig.

[FreeState]

70. All 12 years old boys onward in the LDS Church are ordained /t

[fishwax]

33. No, a cardinal is much higher in the catholic hierarchy than a bishop in the mormon hierarchy

A mormon bishop is roughly similar to a parish priest, with one bishop for each congregation (ward). Of course, there are numerous differences as well, such as that the position of bishop is temporary (mittens was a bishop, but is no longer).

Romney was also a stake president, though, which is a position of greater authority than his position as a bishop. A stake president oversees a stake, which is a collection of wards. (Stake presidents also serve for a longer period of time than bishops do.)

None of this changes the fact that Romney would be a horrible choice for president, or even that his positions of religious authority have been strangely overlooked in the national discussion. But it isn't equivalent to a cardinal running, for the record.

[JaneyVee]

37. They share exact ideologies.

Oops, I actually meant Bishop Dolan and wrote Cardinal. Being from NY I'm so used to hearing Bishop Dolan.

[backscatter712]

51. They both do the secret handshakes and wear the funny hats.

I wonder how much of rMoney's behavior is driven by belief in the White Horse Prophecy...

[fishwax]

52. their similar ideologies don't really have much to do with Romney having once been a bishop, though

[Berlum]

4. Holy Mackerel !

[chimpymustgo]

6. K & R. And this tools acts like he knows he has it in the bag. This is so frightening.

Does he?

[laundry_queen]

61. That's what scares me the most. nt

[brooklynite]

9. Were you terrified when Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson ran for President?

I don't have a lot of respect for religious leaders of any stripe, but "terrified of a theocracy" is something of a stretch.

[dems_rightnow]

11. LOL- good answer

So MANY reasons to be terrified of Romney. But this one is not on my radar.

[OldDem2012]

14. Sorry, you're arguing apples and oranges. Neither one of those individuals ever threatened....

...to replace our current civil government with a faith-based government.

[brooklynite]

24. Please share your evidence that Romney has done so...

There are plenty of things to worry about with Romney. The desire to impose a theocracy isn't one of them.

[JaneyVee]

28. But his desire to do so is HEAVILY backed up by the RW congress who would JUMP at the idea.

Starting with overturning Roe v Wade.

[brooklynite]

32. I repeat: show me the evidence he has the desire

Getting into the weeds about presumed theocratic tendances is actually a dangerous distraction when there are plenty of stated economic and foreign policy positions to challenge him on. This is like our FRiends getting so fixated on Rev Wright four years ago.

[OldDem2012]

60. Bull. Did you watch the video the other day? You know, the one that secretly filmed a Mormon....

...ceremony? Yes or no?

Do you recall the subtext that very clearly stated that one of the goals of the Mormon organization was to replace the US civil government with a religious one headed by Mormons? Yes or no?

Romney was, and probably still is, a high-ranking official within the Mormon organization. Is it not logical to believe that he not only supports the goal stated above but also taught it to others? Yes or no?

Is that enough "evidence" for you, or do you need a written statement from Romney himself? Yes or no?

Additionally, none of us are stupid people as you seem to imply. Please stop attempting to belittle us by implying that we're not capable of focusing on more than one issue at a time. Just my opinion, but I strongly believe we're more than capable of discussing the details of this issue, among others, and STILL voting for the President on Election Day.

Got anything else to say or are we done?

[treestar]

74. The White Horse Prophecy

He doesn't have to come out and say it. According to his religion, it's going to take over America.

That does not mean he would necessarily succeed. But it is something he believes.

[laundry_queen]

63. Not necessarily

Part of the Mormon doctrine is to install one of their own as President. I don't think that's doctrine in Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson's religion and even if it were, their party believes in separation of church and state. Rmoney's party - not so much.

[JaneyVee]

17. They are not Bishops, they are Reverend's. BIG difference. And they are also Liberals,

which means their faith is one of lifting all boats. Romney's is sink all ships. Ideology is apples and oranges.

[brooklynite]

22. You do realize that a Mormom Bisop and a Catholic Bishop are completely different?

[JaneyVee]

26. To an extent, yes. But the ideologies are about dead on.

[Arugula Latte]

57. Right. And both ideologies suck mightily.

[slackmaster]

29. Shirley Chisolm scared me a little bit

But I got over it and voted for McCarthy.

[rurallib]

10. Quite scared. Was just as scared when Pat Roberts made his attempt

but the fact that Romney is so close is absolutely frightening.

[OldDem2012]

12. Go back to the attempted coup against FDR in 1933-34 by right-wing corporate interests....

...this kind of right-wing activity has been going on for a LONG time through a variety of means.

Wall Street's Plot to Seize the White House: Facing the Corporate Roots of American Fascism

QUOTE:

Although Butler's patriotic efforts did thwart this fascist coup plot, the Wall Street bankers and corporate leaders who sponsored it continued to conspire behind the scenes to rid America of FDR and to smash his “New Deal.” Evidence of continued efforts by powerful U.S. fascists to regain control of the White House is illustrated by a 1936 statement by William Dodd, the U.S. Ambassador to Germany. In a letter to Roosevelt, he stated:

“A clique of U.S. industrialists is hell-bent to bring a fascist state to supplant our democratic government and is working closely with the fascist regime in Germany and Italy. I have had plenty of opportunity in my post in Berlin to witness how close some of our American ruling families are to the Nazi regime.... A prominent executive of one of the largest corporations, told me point blank that he would be ready to take definite action to bring fascism into America if President Roosevelt continued his progressive policies. Certain American industrialists had a great deal to do with bringing fascist regimes into being in both Germany and Italy. They extended aid to help Fascism occupy the seat of power, and they are helping to keep it there. Propagandists for fascist groups try to dismiss the fascist scare. We should be aware of the symptoms. When industrialists ignore laws designed for social and economic progress they will seek recourse to a fascist state when the institutions of our government compel them to comply with the provisions.”

Many of the plotters exposed by Butler, had been boosting their fortunes by investing in the fascist experiments of Mussolini and Hitler. Some of them even amassed great profits by arming the Nazis, both before and during WWII.

Yes, the current version of these right-wingers are VERY disturbing to me.

[Bucky]

13. No I'm not. My faith in the Constitution isn't that frail.

You need to work on your dog-whistle; right now you're too easy to hear.

Democrats harping on the religion angle is so embarrassing to those of us who are actually liberal, and not just tribally anti-Republican. It's a sad day when we start trying to gin up enthusiasm for our side by using religious bigotry. I'm grateful, however, that such bigotry is a small irrelevent minority of the party. But that doesn't make your views any less bigoted.

[OldDem2012]

15. I'd agree with you if Mormonism was an actual religion and not a cult. nt.

[Bucky]

69. Gee, that's not a slippery slope.

Who gets to decide the dividing line between cult and religion? Surely you know there are DUers who think all religions are brain-washers.

[WinkyDink]

18. I'm just not as ecumenical as you, I guess! I have no qualms about calling cults (Jonestown; Koresh;

Heaven's Gate; etc.) "cults." And I extend that to a 19th Century flim-flam man named Joseph Smith. Yes, yes; "magic virgin birth, blah, blah, blah." It's just not as easy to countenance a so-called religion born post-Enlightenment, especially in THE nation based UPON Enlightenment principles.

I shall nonetheless cast my illiberal, tribal vote for Obama.

[JaneyVee]

19. Bigotry? Separation of Church and State is in our Constitution.

The only thing I'm bigoted against is OPPRESSION. Yes, I'm intolerant to intolerance. I'm guessing you're a male and will be minimally affected by the overturn of Roe v Wade and other war on women tactics. Not me.

[Bucky]

72. Separation of Church and State is important. That's why there should be no religious test for office

And yet the argument that you're making is rooted in someone's religion because you happen to disapprove of that particular religion. I'd wager you'd lose your anti-Mormon biases if the Democrats had nominated Harry Reid or one of the Udalls for president.

As someone who takes seriously the idea that religion and politics don't mix (a liberal opinion I share with the Framers of the Constitution) I gotta cry foul when I hear a fellow Dem making religion-based arguments against a political candidate. Let's judge Mitt on his (lack of) character and (lack of) qualitifications, rather than on his demographics. You get to the same conclusion and you'll end up feeling less prejudiced.

[JaneyVee]

76. No, no, you've read the OP all wrong, his hyper-religious beliefs are the final cherry on top

of the Fascist cake. Their list is now complete.

[gordianot]

20. "These people" helped Howard Hughes keep Kleenex boxes on his feet.

I read a book and couple articles circa 1960's and 1970's and have been creeped out ever since but not to the point of obsession. There was also an eradication order for Mormons in our State so not a lot of personal experience with Mormons. As a proud member of the recently identified "you people" tribe I will continue to be creeped out. Wonder if Conan Doyle was on to something but he also believed in fairies?

[Enrique]

21. this is Mormophobic

literally.

Scary Mormons.

This post is reminds me of history class where we laughed at the anti-Catholic propaganda from the past, when we didn't know any better.

[JaneyVee]

25. Has nothing to do with Mormons. I'd be against any high ranking church official running.

I'm a half-Jew and I wouldn't vote for a Rabbi either. Is it too much to ask that our elected officials put their constituents needs and priorities ahead of their own personal beliefs?

[onenote]

41. According to the Constitution it is too much to ask as a formal rule.

Now, if you want to make decisions about voting based on religion, or race, or the candidate's name, or the sports teams' they support, or what color ties they wear, you're absolutely free to do so. But insofar as you are suggesting that there be some formal religious (or un-religious) standard for elected officials (and maybe you're not going that far), that's a no-no.

[FreeState]

71. Romney has never been a high ranking LDS official n/t

[backscatter712]

49. The problem is religion itself.

People believe in magical imaginary sky-daddies instead of grounding themselves in reality, wear such beliefs on their sleeves in public, and bring them into elected positions. Get them into government, the result is always madness. Add another level of madness by bringing in unscrupulous psychopaths who manipulate people using their religion, and that's when people start actively oppressing and killing each other over which magical sky-being has the biggest dick.

Whether it's Mormons wearing magic underwear and doing secret handshakes, Christians engaging in ritual cannibalism of their deity, or some other religion, it's all batshit.

[slackmaster]

27. No, I don't suffer from that particular brand of xenophobia

A candidate's religion is about as important to me as his or her race.

[JaneyVee]

35. All candidates have a religion. That's why I didn't name a particular one.

And I believe the xenophobes are the ones who vote solely based on religion, like Christian conservatives do.

[slackmaster]

47. I agree that it's xenophobic to base a vote on religion

Every Presidential candidate that I have ever voted for, and every Presidential candidate that I have not voted for, had a different spirituality than I did.

[JanMichael]

40. apparently, you aren't old enough to remember

the Moral Majority, then.

[slackmaster]

44. ROFLMAO! I remember when President Kennedy was shot.

I wasn't afraid of the Moral Majority either, because I knew they were neither moral nor a majority.

I'll bet you aren't old enough to remember the John Birch Society.

[KurtNYC]

42. Cain doctrine, White Horse prophecy and the Oath of Vengeance

Baptizing the dead into Mormonism

They don't respect your religion (or spirituality).

[slackmaster]

45. As an Agnostic...

...I don't care.

Baptizing the dead into Mormonism

I believe that dead people don't care, because they are dead.

[aletier_v]

54. i made the same error as you

its not if their religion matters to YOU.

its about how it matters to THEM.

[amuse bouche]

31. Yes

And this creepy secretive religion is never mentioned by the media.

[occupymybrain]

34. I don't care for his religion....

that said I don't care for any religion at all. No doubt Romney has a view that is not normal. I don't see the difference between Romney and main stream religion. To me it's all nonsense. I could never vote for a hyper religious person. I'm not saying that i don't think that people have the right to practice what they want, they do have that right. I don't have to vote for them though, that is my right.
I end with a question.
When was the last time a religious prophecy came true?

[Generic Other]

38. Yes, I fear the Mormon church

because of their history of excluding those who do not follow their ways. Romney should be asked tough questions about what effect the church's influence would have on his administration.

Certainly, when you are a bishop in a church, you cannot easily separate church and state. This conversation needs to happen in this country, but since the evangelicals have decided that Romney is one of them (Billy Graham now says Mormonism is not a cult), it won't.

[onenote]

39. I'm terrifed at the thought of Mitt Romney becoming president, but it has nothing to do

with his religion.

First, bishops in the mormon church serve for limited terms and are essentially glorified versions of deacons. Jimmy Carter was a deacon in his church and that didn't terrify me. Jesse Jackson was an ordained minister in his church and that didn't terrify me. Other candidates for President have been devout members of their faith to varying degrees and that hasn't concerned me either. The Constitution says there is no religious test for holding office and consistent with that principle, I separate out a candidates religious beliefs and practices from his or her positions on issues, their character, etc etc.

[KurtNYC]

43. I think baptising the dead from other religions, keeping the best database of genealogy and

funding Proposition 8 are all bad signs. It shows they don't respect other people's spirituality and they act upon that disrespect.

[backscatter712]

50. That's at the core. They don't respect others' religions (or lack thereof).

Also see their constant door-to-door proselytization, their secrecy and their efforts to distance themselves from non-believers.

They have one of the most toxic religious beliefs of all: "My religion is absolutely right, everyone else's is wrong." Their entire culture is one that others anyone who doesn't believe in the correct deity, pays the tithes to the correct religious organization and knows the secret handshakes.

If you're not Mormon, you're a second-class person in their eyes, and they feel justified in Lying for the Lord to get their way from you.

[ecstatic]

46. He terrifies me, but that's not the main reason why

He's a simple minded corporatist with no vision or ideas other than to rape and plunder other peoples' resources.

[HiPointDem]

55. we've had most of those things since forever.

[Nye Bevan]

56. Folks like you would have been terrified of JFK's Catholicism in 1960.

Try not to be so fearful.

[OldDem2012]

65. Wrong. I remember JFK making it very clear PUBLICLY that his religion would not play a role in...

...how he governed as President. Yes, there were concerns about whether or not he would allow his religion to affect his political decisions, but for most Americans his public statement disavowing that was enough. I also do not recall any decision he made as President that hinted of any Catholic input.

Additionally, unlike the Mormon organization, the Catholic Church has never stated that one of their goals was the overthrow of the US Government and replacing it with a religious-based government headed by Catholics.

Has Mitt ever made any kind of PUBLIC statement disavowing the above-stated goal of the Mormons? Not that I've seen.

[GoneOffShore]

67. He's never said that it won't play a part. And he's an authoritarian theocrat.

But you just can't tell some people that the religious want to put them in re-education camps or eliminate them altogether.

[JaneyVee]

78. Sorry, I'm not anti-religion, I'm anti-oppression.

[Arugula Latte]

58. Yes.

Religious nuts of all stripes scare the hell out of me.

[Erose999]

59. I, for one, welcome our new overlords from planet Kolob.

Long may they rule!!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7wmDyI4v5Gc/T3UeRbmPPcI/AAAAAAAAAHQ/el6l_70HZ4s/s1600/Planet+Kolob.jpg

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

62. CNN.com had an article last week titled...

...Is Obama the wrong kind of Christian?

It never mentioned that Mitt may be one because he's a Mormon Bishop!!

[hack89]

64. Mormon Bishops are lay volunteers from the local congregation who serve 4 to 7 year terms

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_%28Latter_Day_Saints%29#Bishops_in_The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints

[GoneOffShore]

68. If not they should be.

[librechik]

73. petrified--like a pillar of salt!

How dare I look back to The Temple! God will smite me!

[DonCoquixote]

75. about being a bishop

Mitt Romney was in charge of the mormon church od Boston. Granted, there are not as many Mormons in Boston as let's say, Catholics, but the bttom line is that he was in charge of Boston, just as a catholic Bishop is in charge of Boston (though large cities are called archdioceses by Catholics.)

I bring this up because when people say "the bishop was a title", in his case, it is not, he built churches, hired clergy, fired clergy. There is even a case where he tired to buck his superior to prevent a woman whoe pregnancy threatened her life. The higher ups read the medical file, gave the ok, Mitt did not.

[JaneyVee]

77. I should add that this OP wasn't about Mormonism, it was about a Bishop being the final checkmark

off the list of GOP Fascism. That's it. They've attained a completely Theocratic-Fascist platform. This could be any religion where the President would be more guided by religious beliefs and policies than his/her desire to solve problems.

[craigmatic]

79. He might be a bishop but he's really only a right wing pawn.

[hrmjustin]

80. I am worried this bishop is running.

If a progressive member of the clergy ran I would love it.