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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThere are now 7 states where TFG supporters submitted fake/forged "electoral certificates"
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PortTack
(35,820 posts)Went to to stay in office
Cheney is right..he should be banned from EVER holding any office ever again
L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)
mahina
(20,645 posts)These folks must get the book thrown at them.
WHITT
(2,868 posts)at a bare minimum the signers, along with whoever submitted them, would be charged with fraud, if not additional charges.
L. Coyote
(51,134 posts)(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully—
(1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact;
(2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; or
(3) makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry;
shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years or, if the offense involves international or domestic terrorism (as defined in section 2331), imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both.
.... (5) the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that—
(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
(B) appear to be intended—
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States; and ....
Whoever, being a person employed in any administrative position by the United States, or by any department or agency .... uses his official authority for the purpose of interfering with, or affecting, the nomination or the election of any candidate for the office of President, Vice President, Presidential elector, Member of the Senate, Member of the House of Representatives, Delegate from the District of Columbia, or Resident Commissioner, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.
Response to L. Coyote (Reply #16)
malaise This message was self-deleted by its author.
Lock them up!
Hekate
(100,133 posts)Why is bringing them to justice (apparently) a hard thing to decide to do? If I forged an ordinary check, I would be in a world of legal trouble. Wouldn’t I?
I’ve been watching Rachel’s reporting unfold with my jaw dropped. Or rather, my jaw would be dropped if I weren’t so numb from the blows.
LetMyPeopleVote
(179,822 posts)Hekate
(100,133 posts)Take care of yourself. We need you around here.
rpannier
(24,924 posts)For one, according to several sources, "Most of the slates openly acknowledge that they will have no legitimacy unless a court rules in their favor."
Many of these people, like the ones from New Mexico (Why New Mexico? I have no idea), never expected to be able to count their votes. They even said they didn't.
Also, with the exception of Wisconsin, all of these "potential wanna-be electors" were chosen after the deadline under the Electoral Count Act of 1887 had passed. This means the process was over
Also, no official state agency sanctioned them. In some cases, like New Mexico, they simply created a list themselves -- which is likely closer to Cosplay than a crime
They filed their documents with the National Archives as if they were the real documents from their states which listed the real electors for the validly-elected candidate.
At the very least, that moves it from cosplay into some variety of fraud.
dalton99a
(94,109 posts)
MissMillie
(39,652 posts)But the article does not indicate that state actors were responsible for these forgeries. In fact, what the story says is:
Both crimes should be prosecuted, certainly. But there's nothing that indicates that election officials sent anything other than valid certificates.
monkeyman1
(5,109 posts)they won't distract their way out on this one ! then again , not sharpest tool's in the shed !
Rhiannon12866
(255,525 posts)
llmart
(17,615 posts)This news is just infuriating me to no end. How is this even not headline news on the three major television news programs? Here in Michigan, why aren't the local news stations making this a more important story? They briefly reported on it yesterday or maybe the day before that, but I've heard nothing since.
I'm at a loss for words at what is happening to our country.
Emile
(42,282 posts)
underpants
(196,490 posts)I understand that they are in lockstep with their fealty to him. There’s no way there’s this coincidence of independent thought and action.
Nevilledog
(55,078 posts)We're gonna find out the boilerplate language in these forgeries came from the Trump camp.
LetMyPeopleVote
(179,822 posts)This is part of a conspiracy or coordinated effort
Link to tweet
The fake certificates were created by Trump allies in Georgia, Arizona, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Nevada and New Mexico, who sought to replace valid presidential electors from their states with a pro-Trump slate, according to documents obtained by American Oversight.
The documents contain the signatures of Trump supporters who claimed to be the rightful electors from seven states that President Joe Biden won. But these rogue slates of electors didn't have the backing of any elected officials in the seven states -- like a governor or secretary of state, who are involved in certifying election results -- and they served no legitimate purpose.
The documents were first posted online in March by the government watchdog group. But they received renewed attention this week, as the January 6 committee ramps up its investigation into Trump's attempted coup, including how his allies tried to stop states from certifying Biden's victory, in part, by installing friendly slates of electors who would overturn the will of the voters.
Kid Berwyn
(24,375 posts)…of the people who filed these fraudulent documents?
I have a good idea who for whom they conspire.
Wednesdays
(22,593 posts)Pigs are cute and very, very intelligent.
Unlike TFG...
Kid Berwyn
(24,375 posts)The late Harry Harrison, the great SF author, wrote about the future Porcine Interstellar Guard…
https://www.risingshadow.net/library/book/11281-the-man-from-pig
It should have been a major epic miniseries at least by now.
LetMyPeopleVote
(179,822 posts)Kid Berwyn
(24,375 posts)by Matthew Chapman
Alternate, January 13, 2022
On Tuesday, Arizona state Rep. Jake Hoffman, one of the Republicans who signed a fake election "certification" alleging that he was a Republican elector appointed for former President Donald Trump's nonexistent victory in Arizona, turned away from a reporter with 12 News trying to ask him about his role in the forgery.
The reporter caught up with Hoffman and demanded he explain how he had authority as an elector, he said, "in unprecedented times, unprecedented action does occur."
When the reporter asked if Hoffman received any direction from anyone, he tried to deflect.
"I was one of the electors, I'm not in charge of the electors," Hoffman said.
Snip…
Two days ago, another Republican official involved in the forged election certificates, Kathy Berden, defended the plot because "that was a long time ago."
Continues…
https://www.alternet.org/2022/01/arizona-republican-certification/
Traitors and cockroaches have a lot in common.
jmowreader
(53,193 posts)The official certificate of ascertainment must have the State Seal, which is made of foil; the signature of the governor; and the signature of the Secretary of State of the submitting state. Without all three, the certificate isn’t valid.
PatSeg
(53,214 posts)Did they really think, "It's okay, no one will notice"? That is so reckless and dangerous.
LetMyPeopleVote
(179,822 posts)
panader0
(25,816 posts)Once the individual states votes have been certified by the SoS, why must the extra step of
electors be taken? Whoever wins the state gets the electoral votes, period. I don't think this is the
first time that electors, legal or not, have tried to vote differently from the actual vote totals.
Just eliminate them altogether. I ask you because of your legal knowledge.
LetMyPeopleVote
(179,822 posts)
oasis
(53,692 posts)
moondust
(21,286 posts)LetMyPeopleVote
(179,822 posts)LetMyPeopleVote
(179,822 posts)Rachel's blog is still at five
Link to tweet
That led to three relatively straightforward questions. The first is whether this was legal. On this point, George Conway wrote this morning, "Anyone who prepared or submitted, or aided, abetted or conspired in the preparation or submission of, false electoral-vote certificates, would presumably be guilty of a host of federal and state criminal offenses.".....
And the third question is whether the list will grow beyond Wisconsin, Michigan, and Arizona. The answer, not surprisingly, is yes: Republicans in Nevada and Georgia did the same thing. As Rachel explained on last night's show:
"It's not like they created these documents to hold close to their chest and fantasize that this had been the real outcome. It's not like they created these documents just to keep themselves as a keepsake. They sent them in to the government as if they were real documents. And it's not like they sent them in saying, 'We know they're not the real electors, because Biden won here, but here's our names for posterity. Here's our names for your records.' No, they actually created these fake documents purporting to be the real certifications of them as electors."
Indeed, in the forged election materials, these Republicans literally described themselves as "the duly elected and qualified electors," despite reality.
She will no doubt update this tonight
Wounded Bear
(64,323 posts)
ecstatic
(35,075 posts)I heard that a black woman in Texas received 5 years for mistakenly voting. I'm sick and tired of the racist double standards.