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[WarGamer]

This message was self-deleted by its author (WarGamer) on Tue Jan 18, 2022, 01:10 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[TheRealNorth]

1. I wouldn't bet the bank on it...

But i suspect that is true. In fact, of the non-Republican unvaccinated that die, I would suspect that most are non-voters.

[hlthe2b]

5. Correlation study NPR performed for both vaccination rates and deaths by county vs Trump support

pretty compelling. Scroll down.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/12/05/1059828993/data-vaccine-misinformation-trump-counties-covid-death-rate

[Phoenix61]

11. Thanks for posting. nt

[Kingofalldems]

30. Excellent.

[captain queeg]

37. Interesting. Seems to coincide with expectations

Also noted some counties I checked weren’t the big trump supporters i’d expected.

[WarGamer]

75. Check this out

[SKKY]

2. Neal deGrasse Tyson posted something on Twitter about...

...Republicans dying from COVID at an 8-1 clip compared to Democrats. I don't know if that is an actual number, but it's hard to believe, given the politics surrounding vaccines and masks and whatnot that it isn't something close to that number.

[WarGamer]

4. I'd need to see... actual... facts.

[hlthe2b]

7. You know, you really can research these things. I provided a link to the NPR study.

[WarGamer]

14. YOu're relying on death rates which are irrelevant to the gross numbers

[hlthe2b]

16. No. They are not, but you seem only to want to be combative towards those trying to answer you.

I've found that with discourse with you prior so I won't bother again.

[WarGamer]

21. And I see some people moving goalposts or changing the content of statements I make

I simply made the assertion of fact that the vast majority of deaths are still in big blue counties.

That's a fact.

So people are assuming that it's the GOP'ers in NYC, Indianapolis, Chicago or Memphis that are dying of COVID.

[The Magistrate]

50. What You Seem To Fail To Take Into Account, Sir

Is that there are a good many of the smaller 'red' counties, and they do add up.

This link is to an article where, on scrolling down a ways, you will find a reliable table on total deaths in New York State, broken down by county:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_New_York_(state)

It looks to be roughly sixteen thousands out of sixty thousands have died in the city's counties, so about three quarters of the deaths occurred elsewhere in the state. I've no idea how this squares with the city's proportion of the state's population. These figures, note, are for the entire course of the outbreak, and a great fraction of urban deaths occurred early, before vaccines and improved methods of treatment.

It is well established that rates of death are higher in 'red' counties, but if these are taken in aggregate, the population subjected to the higher rates is of comparable size to urban populations. It is also well established that vaccination rates are lower among the 'red' populace, and that the greatest proportion of deaths are of unvaccinated persons.

I would consider a wager more persons who voted Trump are dying at present of the disease than persons who voted for Mr. Biden to be of investment grade.


"Talk abut some gamblers, oughta see ol' Richard Lee. He shot one thousand dollars, and come out on a three."

[WarGamer]

53. For your statement to be true...

You're stating that in Bright Blue Counties... the fatalities are 75-80%+ GOP'ers.

So when NYC lost 700 people last week...

You think that a majority of those 700... were Trump voters?

[The Magistrate]

61. That, Sir, Is A Mischaracterizaton Of My Comments

I am not going to repeat myself. In that state there are some fifty-seven counties, five of which are in the city. There are about eight millions in the city, and the states total population is about twenty millions. There may be a few counties outside the city that did not go for Trump, but it's a pretty common pattern that Democrats get the cities and Republicans get the rest. I am sure you can do the arithmetic, and see that as many if not more of the state's population are subject to the higher rates of death associated with a solid vote for Trump.

[WarGamer]

64. I'll just finish up my thoughts by saying...

When this is all over I think we'll all see that the poor and particularly minorities bore the brunt of C19 and no political advantage was gained.

That's all.

[The Magistrate]

65. Which Bears No Relation Whatever, Sir

To the argument you originally stated.

Your opening statement was the higher rates of death in 'red' counties did not reflect any great portion of the total loss. That is refuted.

The rest does not interest me.

[WarGamer]

76. Sometimes graphics make the best argument

[William769]

78. Game over, you lose.

[WarGamer]

79. Hmmmm

Urban fatalities far greater than rural.

As I've said since the first post.

[William769]

80. I fight & spar with people on the right.

I am at Peace & harmony with people on the left.

P.S. Your little dig at me does not help your argument at all.

Bless your heart & have a nice day.

[WarGamer]

81. So you come at me with "Game over, you lose"

Then come back like this???

That makes no sense.

Like I've been saying... the chart doesn't lie

[William769]

82. I live in the reddest of red counties in S.W. Florida.

Our hospitals are overwhelmed right now with Covid patients that are unvaccinated so overwhelmed right now that it's putting non Covid patients at a very high risk. Yes, the majority of deaths here are unvaccinated and yes I am saying they are republicans (it's there M.O.)

I spotted your OP to be total BS.

Yes, I have said my peace and am done here.

[WarGamer]

83. so no comment?

Your anecdotal observations in your County probably don't represent the nation as a whole.

Like I said in my OP... There may be more GOP'ers dying of C19... but you have to believe that it's GOP'ers in Urban areas because factually most deaths come from Urban areas.

[Kingofalldems]

39. Yes, it's puzzling an OP was made

when a little research will find the answer.

[WarGamer]

44. The OP is factually correct.

Higher rates doesn't translate into higher gross numbers.

[Kingofalldems]

45. You posed a question in which you already had an answer?

[Beartracks]

48. Maybe they looked it up AFTER posting?

That sounds like something I would do. Lol

=========

[former9thward]

38. It was nonsense and when called on it he immediately deleted it.

[SKKY]

60. And yet, NPR stands by their research that basically said the same thing...

...So, I'm not sure it can be classified as "nonsense". It actually makes a lot of sense given the politics involved. Unfortunately, everyone I know (4 and counting) who has passed on from COVID are in fact, Republicans. Just sayin'...

[former9thward]

63. The CDC says Blacks and Hispanics die at twice the rate of whites due to Covid

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investigations-discovery/hospitalization-death-by-race-ethnicity.html It is facts like that which caused him to delete it. If it is factual then why did he delete it?

[LetMyPeopleVote]

73. The demographics of those dying from Covid have shifted too, according to data from the CDC

Propane Jane has been looking into this and has found that now more older white persons are now dying from COVID

Link to tweet

[WarGamer]

77. or not?

Rates don't tell the whole story. Raw numbers do. Don't believe everything you see on Twitter

[hlthe2b]

3. Only population correlation studies showing people in counties that voted Trump more likely to die

of COVID. These are in epidemiological terms referred to as "ecologic" studies so that we don't know specifically that those who voted for Trump were likewise more represented among the COVID dead. It is the comparison of trends for both. Still, pretty compelling when you overlay both deaths and low vaccination rates against death rates by county from COVID=19.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/07/trump-voters-counties-more-likely-die-covid-study

Pro-Trump counties now have far higher COVID death rates. Misinformation is to blame
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/12/05/1059828993/data-vaccine-misinformation-trump-counties-covid-death-rate

[WarGamer]

8. Rates are meaningless.

If 500 die in Blue Urban Counties...

And 75 die in 40 combined counties...

500 is greater than 75 no matter the death rate.

Don't believe me. Look at the CDC data. Big blue Counties deaths make up the VAST majority of State deaths

[hlthe2b]

13. No, that's not true. Not when the correlation holds by county on a national level.

Look. I have taught statistics and epidemiology to medical students for years. I'm not going to do it here, but I laid out some principles if you would merely read what I took the time to present to you. If you don't wish to then I won't waste my time further.

[WarGamer]

17. I'm going to make it REAL simple for you.

A State might have 400 deaths in the last week.

320 are from big blue Counties. 80 are from the remaining 90% of Counties combined.

Death rates are irrelevant because the vast majority of fatalities in ALL States are from big blue counties.

Fact.

[hlthe2b]

20. No. But, your combativeness, rather than civil discourse is something I don't have to tolerate

So, bye.

[karynnj]

57. However, a logical conclusion of your examples would be that Democrats far outnumber

Republicans. Yet we know it I'd pretty close to even, with slightly more Democrats. If the study referred to is well done, the rate of getting Covid, being hospitalized, and dying is higher in areas that had more Trump support, then it very likely is true more Trump voters are dying.

Your example biases the results by selecting a huge Democratic urban area and smaller rural counties that do not add up to anywhere near the population. Yet, the sum of all the Trump areas is not the tiny counterpart to the big city.

What we do know, from many analysts, in many states, is that the rate per 100,000, of getting covid is higher for the unvacinated. Even more startling is that for every age group, the portion of people who test positive that end up hospitalized is far higher for the unvacvinated.

If people who support Trump really are far more likely to be unvaccinated, it COULD be true more Repunlicans have been lost to covid than Democrats. Before claiming that, it would have to be directly studied.

[madville]

29. What many fail to realize in the South

Many of those “Red” counties have significant Black populations. A county I used to live in for instance was 40% Black and 55% White, it went for Trump by about 57% if I remember right. Last time I looked at the stats, 38% of Black people there were vaccinated and 58% of white people.

So in this rural “Red” county, a significant number of folks having bad COVID outcomes are very likely to be traditional Democratic voters since Black people in this area vote over 90% Democratic.

It may very well be true that it’s all white Trumpers in a rural Wisconsin county or somewhere that has very different demographics, but for whatever reason Black people in the South are the least vaccinated group and also make up significant chunks of many rural Red counties, like 20-40%.

[maxsolomon]

42. I've been observing that all along.

minorities make up an outsize proportion of the total deaths.

[live love laugh]

6. Yes there is political gain to be made from people dying. Just look back at how Trump encouraged the

spread of this disease first allowing that it was affecting minorities and thereby encouraging his people to basically kill them by not wearing masks.

[WarGamer]

10. So it's cool to be like a GOP Jackal making a party of the death of RBG?

That's far beneath me and beneath anyone of substance...

[live love laugh]

15. You said no political gain is to be had. I provided an example of Republican efforts to capitalize

politically.


You’re totally off base in your response.

[ZZenith]

23. LMAO!

Substance, indeed.

[Mr.Bill]

36. Not unlike in the 80s

when some people thought only gay people and drug addicts caught it.

[Phoenix61]

9. There have been lots of articles looking at Covid

death rates by county and comparing them to Biden/Trump vote counts by county.

[WarGamer]

12. Rates are meaningless.

Look at gross numbers

[Phoenix61]

18. I'll try again, more people are dying of Covid

in counties that voted for Trump than are dying in counties that voted for Biden.

[WarGamer]

24. higher rates but not higher NUMBERS.

For example, 80% of NY deaths come from the 6 counties in and around NYC.

[Phoenix61]

26. I'm done. You can goggle as well as I can. nt

[madville]

47. Which is a meaningless statistic from a political angle

A “Red” Trump county in the South could easily be 20-40% Black people. But Black people in these rural “red” counties are the least vaccinated group and have higher rates of COVID risk factors (obesity, diabetes, heart disease). Just saying Trump counties have higher COVID numbers doesn’t mean it’s mostly Trump voters suffering from COVID.

[Phoenix61]

67. Have fun arguing with statisticians. nt

[Ferrets are Cool]

19. Does it really matter?

[ornotna]

31. It does not

Fact!

[Haggard Celine]

22. Most of the people in the hospital with Covid have been

unvaccinated and most of the deaths have been the unvaccinated. People think that the unvaccinated are far more likely to be Republicans than Democrats. Don't know if that's accurate or not, although I do know Republicans who are vaccinated but I don't know any Democrats who aren't.

[WarGamer]

25. Then it's unvaxx'd GOP'ers in Chicago, Milwaukee, Philadelphia and NYC?

Because big blue counties are where most of the fatalities are coming from.

[Haggard Celine]

32. It's possible.

If, say, 85% of the deaths were unvaccinated and most of the unvaccinated are Republicans, then it seems that Republicans must be dying in disproportionate numbers. I don't know for sure if Democrats in big blue counties are getting their vaccines like they should, however. If not, that would certainly change the statistics. Also, how many of the unvaccinated are actually nonpolitical? I think it's likely that Republicans are dying in greater percentages than Democrats, but I don't know that for sure, nor do I know how much higher the percentage might be. All I know is that vaccines are working well, and that should be obvious to everyone by now.

[WarGamer]

34. Good reply, thanks!

[madville]

33. Look at Florida

The least vaccinated group is Black people at 41% statewide, a group that traditionally votes about 90% Democratic. Death rates actually line up pretty close here with Demographics across the board. I’m sure someone will say “All those Black deaths were part of the 10% that voted for Trump!” or something like that.

[WarGamer]

35. Don't muddy the waters with actual facts...

[Scrivener7]

46. Unvaxxed, yes, and the unvaxxed are MUCH more likely to be GOP. But it doesn't seem like

you want to hear this. You will, no doubt, tell me that "rates don't equal numbers."

[SKKY]

27. Boy, this post turned into a shit show even quicker than normal...

...GD is really turned up today.

[Kingofalldems]

43. Sure did.

[cinematicdiversions]

28. Most people who die are older, poor, unvaccinated and overweight.

That fits better into the Trump demographic than the Democratic demographic.

Democrats on average, are wealthier and have better access to health care. And with some outliers they tend to be in better physical shape as well.

Of course, democrats also have much higher vaccination rates.


But this is hardly a hard science. The higher rates of deaths among older Hispanic groups certainly hurt republicans but we would be remiss to ignore the high rates among older African Americans which are a very solid group likely voters for us.


In reality, it would be best if less Americans die no matter their political orientation and this type of thinking is shunned as it really ought to be.

[madville]

40. The largest Democratic voting bloc in the Southeast

Is Black people. It is also the least vaccinated demographic in those areas and they also have higher rates of poverty, obesity, heart disease and diabetes.

The grave dancers tend to ignore also that many “Red” counties in the South have large Black populations, like 20-40% and they are the least vaccinated group. Then they see a study that says Red counties have higher death rates of COVID and celebrate because in their fantasy, it’s all white GOP rednecks dying…..

[MichMan]

49. City of Detroit votes 95% Democrat and it doesn't seem wealthy to me when I drive through it.

[cinematicdiversions]

58. As a group Blue states are richer than the red states.

Often By a large margin....

[Kaleva]

85. It may be safe to say that a majority of Trump voters live in the richer, blue states.

5 times as many people in LA County, CA voted for Trump then in the entire state of Wyoming.

https://www.cnn.com/election/2020/results/state/california

https://www.cnn.com/election/2020/results/state/wyoming

[bullwinkle428]

41. Okay, if you want to have a discussion on statistics, let's talk SHEER NUMBERS,

not rates, and look at the state of Illinois, for example.

In very blue Cook County, Trump received 558K votes. In four small, very red counties near me (Carroll, Whiteside [LOL], Henry, and Mercer), Trump received a TOTAL of around 40K. So, sure, Cook County is "blue as fuck", but there are still TONS of Republicans that live and vote there.

When it comes to looking at deaths due to COVID, I can't make even the slightest claim that "Trump is losing this many voters per day" but we absolutely know two things for sure.

1. When broken down by party affiliation, Democrats have been much been at getting vaccinated.

2. The hospitals are not getting filled up with vaccinated people.

Here are the voting numbers if you want to verify.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election_in_Illinois

[Kaleva]

86. The great majority of TFG voters in MI live in the urban and mostly urban counties

Trump got as many votes from Wayne County (Metro Detroit) as he did in all the counties of Upper Michigan and much of northern lower Michigan put together. About 43% of the vote TFG got in the state came from counties Biden won.

[Sympthsical]

52. It's an extrapolation

And probably not an off-base one. 90+% of the deaths are unvaccinated. Republicans are unvaccinated far more than Democrats.

In raw numbers, it is not even a slight reach to say Republicans are probably dying far more than Democrats to Covid.

However, where people err is the political glee from it. As you note, most of those deaths are coming from heavily blue areas. People seem to be salivating at the prospect "They're killing their voters!" Ok, but a lot of those voters aren't going to make much difference outside of closely purple areas. If a bunch of Republicans die in New York and California, what electoral difference does it make?

And that's where the unsavoriness comes in. Not just because gleefully celebrating the death of fellow citizens is exactly the kind of callous, inhumane shit that leads to worse polarization, Otherizing, and generally the mark of being a not great person.

But it also ignores that minorities - you know, our base - are still getting far worse outcomes, typically lower vaccination rates, and continued lack of access to health care during all this.

So those high fives include many of our friends going down with the other side we detest so much.

Covid has really revealed some people. It's not a good look. And for many, the illusion, "We're better people!" holds only through an absolute lack of self-awareness. Which, it's social media. If we ever reached a baseline of self-awareness, it would all collapse in on itself.

[live love laugh]

55. Extrapolation error: "We're better people!" ... said who? High fives ... where?

You make some good points but the questions of the “we” you are referring to take away from that.

[Sympthsical]

59. If I linked every instance

We'd be here all day. And it's against rules to call out.

But, considering I loathe the sentiment, I notice it almost every time it crops up. Which is on a constant daily basis.

[live love laugh]

62. "Rhetoric paints with a broad brush." -George Carlin

[Takket]

54. here is a study.......

doesn't look like they have raw numbers but maybe this will give you something you are looking for?

I didn't read the whole thing........

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-021-12063-2#Sec3

[Stinky The Clown]

66. Ohferkrissakes

[dsc]

68. It is likely to be more GOP than Democrats given how much less likely the vaccinated are to die

but direct proof would be hard to find. I will say your numbers don't even necessarily suggest that it isn't true. Blue counties have lots of red voters in them, and in point of fact, even in comparison to other counties, those red voters will out number the red voters in small red counties. Thus even as big blue counties lead the death list, it doesn't mean, or even imply, that blue voters are more likely to be dying.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

69. Nearly all COVID deaths in US are now among unvaccinated

This study is very interesting https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-941fcf43d9731c76c16e7354f5d5e187

An Associated Press analysis of available government data from May shows that “breakthrough” infections in fully vaccinated people accounted for fewer than 1,200 of more than 107,000 COVID-19 hospitalizations. That’s about 1.1%.

And only about 150 of the more than 18,000 COVID-19 deaths in May were in fully vaccinated people. That translates to about 0.8%, or five deaths per day on average.

The AP analyzed figures provided by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The CDC itself has not estimated what percentage of hospitalizations and deaths are in fully vaccinated people, citing limitations in the data.

Among them: Only about 45 states report breakthrough infections, and some are more aggressive than others in looking for such cases. So the data probably understates such infections, CDC officials said.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

70. Monitoring Incidence of COVID-19 Cases, Hospitalizations, and Deaths, by Vaccination Status -- 13 U.S

Here is a CDC study that shows that it is the unvaccinated who are dying from COVID https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7037e1.htm?s_cid=mm7037e1_whttps://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7037e1.htm?s_cid=mm7037e1_w

In 13 U.S. jurisdictions, rates of COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations, and deaths were substantially higher in persons not fully vaccinated compared with those in fully vaccinated persons, similar to findings in other reports (2,3). After the week of June 20, 2021, when the SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant became predominant, the percentage of fully vaccinated persons among cases increased more than expected for the given vaccination coverage and a constant VE. The IRR for cases among persons not fully vaccinated versus fully vaccinated decreased substantially; IRRs for hospitalizations and deaths changed less overall, but moderately among adults aged ≥65 years. Findings from this crude analysis of surveillance data are consistent with recent studies reporting decreased VE against confirmed infection but not hospitalization or death, during a period of Delta variant predominance and potential waning of vaccine-induced population immunity (4–6).†††

The findings in this report are subject to at least five limitations. First, combining unvaccinated and partially vaccinated persons resulted in lower IRR and VE estimates. Second, variable linkage of case surveillance, vaccination, hospitalization, and mortality data might have resulted in misclassifications that could influence IRR estimates; no substantial differences in ascertainment of outcomes by vaccination status were noted in jurisdictions that were able to assess this. Lags in reporting of deaths might have affected the second period differentially. Third, this was an ecological study in which IRRs lacked multivariable adjustments and causality could not be assessed (i.e., possible differences in testing or behaviors in vaccinated and unvaccinated persons). VE is being assessed through ongoing controlled studies. Fourth, the period when the SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant reached ≥50% overall prevalence was assumed to be the first week when most cases were infected with the Delta variant, but the week varied by jurisdiction. Finally, the data assessed from 13 jurisdictions accounted for 25% of the U.S. population, and therefore might not be generalizable.

Monitoring COVID-19 outcomes in populations over time by vaccination status is facilitated through reliable linkage of COVID-19 case surveillance and vaccination data. However, interpreting state-level variation by week might be challenging, especially for severe outcomes with small numbers. The framework used in this analysis allows for comparisons of observed IRRs and percentages of vaccinated cases, hospitalizations, and deaths to expected values. The data might be helpful in communicating the real-time impact of vaccines (e.g., persons not fully vaccinated having >10 times higher COVID-19 mortality risk) and guiding prevention strategies, such as vaccination and nonpharmacologic interventions.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

71. COVID-19 Cases and Deaths by Vaccination Status

This is from the Texas health agency https://www.dshs.texas.gov/immunize/covid19/data/vaccination-status/

From September 4 through October 1, 2021:
Unvaccinated people were 13 times more likely to become infected with COVID-19 than fully vaccinated people.
Unvaccinated people were 20 times more likely to experience COVID-19-associated death than fully vaccinated people.
Vaccination had a strong protective effect on infections and deaths among people of all ages. The protective impact on infections was consistent across adult age groups and even greater in people ages 12 to 17 years. The protective impact on COVID-19 deaths, which was high for all age groups, varied more widely. In the September time frame, unvaccinated people in their 40s were 55 times more likely to die from COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated people of the same age. Unvaccinated people aged 75 years and older were 12 times more likely to die than their vaccinated counterparts.
Overall, regardless of vaccination status, people in Texas were four to five times more likely to become infected with COVID-19 or suffer a COVID-19-associated death while the Delta variant was prevalent in Texas (August 2021) compared with a period before the Delta variant became prevalent (April 2021).

[LetMyPeopleVote]

72. Journalist States The Obvious: COVID Is Killing Trump Supporters By The Hundreds Each Day By Dems La

This analysis is based on the three studies posted above https://10ztalk.com/2022/01/17/journalist-states-the-obvious-covid-is-killing-trump-supporters-by-the-hundreds-each-day/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Former New York Times journalist Donald G. McNeil Jr. wrote an article on Medium that stated what everyone with an ounce of intelligence knows but don’t dare put in print: Not only is Trump losing hundreds of voters each day to COVID, they are already surpassing the margins the GOP can hope to attain in the swing states. This hasn’t been printed because it’s ghoulish to post the political ramifications of a human life, to which I reply that Democrats aren’t the ones killing these people—their own right-wing disinformation machine is. Hell, we are trying to save them despite the political ramifications. Trumpists don’t believe in wearing masks, hate social distancing, and are so anti-vaxx that they won’t even listen to Trump as he tried to tout the vaccines. GOP leaders are also undermining public health directives aimed at protecting people. Trump did have a change of heart about promoting the vaccines only because someone impressed upon him that the deaths are his voters. He really needs as many as possible in 2024, but it’s too late—and getting worse.

Multiple studies from the AP, CDC, and even Texas’ health services have shown that the deaths are almost entirely among the unvaccinated, and most of those identify as Republican. The profile of a typical COVID victim is now an older unvaccinated person who is obese and lives in a rural area—in other words, the same profile as a Trumper. This is already having a major poltiical impact. McNeil did the math:

As of this week, about 1,800 Americans a day are dying of Covid; the C.D.C. expects that number to rise above 2,600. Virtually all are adults. If 95 percent were unvaccinated and we assume that 75 percent of those were Trump supporters, that’s 1,300 to 1,900 of his voters being subtracted from the rolls every single day. Donald Trump lost Arizona by a mere 10,000 votes. He lost Georgia by 12,000, He lost Wisconsin by 21,000. He lost Nevada by 33,000. Right now, about 60 Arizonans, 36 Georgians, 34 Wisconsinites and 14 Nevadans are dying of Covid each day. Seventy five percent of 95 percent of that would be minus 103 Trump voters per day — just in those four swing states. Week after week. That adds up.

[WarGamer]

74. those numbers don't add up.

Being a NYT Journo doesn't mean he's not a moron.

So 1800 deaths a day. Ok

95% unvax'd, OK

75% Trump voters

Unlikely.

1) Only 59% of Voting Age adults voted in 2020.

So over 700 of those deaths may have been non-voters.

2) CDC reported that minorities dying at higher rate than Whites.

3) Look at NY CDC data.

Vast majority of deaths in NY State in the 5-6 Counties in/around NYC

Lots of rural overweight Trump supporting voters in Brooklyn, Queens, Long Island and Manhattan, right?



The main point to this thread is that people shouldn't be ghoulish and root for the deaths of others.

And secondly, the idea that 75% of deaths are Trump voters is statistically... impossible.

This might help you


https://ibb.co/qdXQwT4

[muriel_volestrangler]

84. You keep posting a graph of "metro" v. "nonmetro", but that's not about voting

that's about where people live. And you haven't given, as far as I can tell, what the definition of "metro" is; but "nonmtero" appears to be only rural. The claim is made about the deaths after mass vaccination - so it's the October peak that counts, and the current increase (but, by comparison in your graph, in the third wave, metro deaths peaked at about 4 times the nonmetro, but in the 4th wave, it was down to about 3 times; this indicates rural vaccination was lower).

From KFF in November: "Republicans and Republican leaning independents, who represent 41% of adults, now make up 60% of the adult unvaccinated population across the country"



So, that section makes up 60% of the 95%, which is 57%. So, yeah, most of the fatalities. You've confused yourself by looking at "metro" and minority figures.

[WarGamer]

87. And you've made my point.

Even in your example, the GOP'ers are only 57% of deaths and people talk about "reducing the ranks of the GOP" through C19 deaths.

Here's where the lack of CDC data hurts us.

We don't know how many of the dead were even voters.

Here's the bottom line.

People shouldn't be ghoulish.

The idea of a D vs R fatality scorecard is disgusting.

Since I've PROVEN that most C19 deaths have been in Urban areas... those cheering fatality numbers are cheering a lot of OUR own folks dying.


And BTW, here's the text from my OP (100% consistent with all my replies here):

Between the fantasizing and wishing/hoping there seems to be a lot of people under the impression that Rural whites (apparently believed to be GOP'ers) are most of the recent victims.

Having not seen any actual... you know, evidence of that... I checked out the CDC.

They have these cool interactive graphs and data to access.

Total deaths and death rates are not the same thing.

700 people may die of C19 in the NYC area in a week... and that is a far lower death rate than the 15 that die in some upstate NY County but in gross numbers... NYC leads the State, by far.

But in the larger States I looked at... it seems like 75%+ of the fatalities (in the State) are in the big blue counties.



So... I guess some are theorizing that in big blue Counties, it's actually just the GOP'ers that are dying.

I'd need to see evidence of that because it sounds laughable, actually.

How about people stop rooting for the deaths of others?

There is NO political GAIN to be made from people dying.

[muriel_volestrangler]

88. Now that's what I call "moving the goalposts"

Your OP wanted data of GOP deaths; in the face of that data, you've now switched to "it may be 57%, ie a majority, but I feel it's ghoulish and disgusting to talk about it".

CDC data, of course, would never record how someone voted. You need polls for that. That doesn't "hurt us".

So, no, it doesn't "make your point". Just give up. You're not arguing in good faith. At least it looks like you'll stop spamming the thread with your irrelevant graph now.

[WarGamer]

89. One last question... if you'll answer it

500 people a week die in NYC.

How many Rural, overweight, Trumpists are in that batch... from Brooklyn, Queens, Long Island and Manhattan?

And you need to read what I've written. I've never claimed that GOP'ers aren't the majority of people dying today.

I simply said (consistently) that it's not a silly number as has been quoted in the thread... like 75% of deaths.

Even your 57% number is certainly wrong. You don't take non-voters into account OR comprehend that the raw number of unvax'd DEMS in an Urban area are high.

Did you read my OP? All my replies have been consistent. It's other people refusing to talk about raw death numbers bringing death rates into the discussion

Between the fantasizing and wishing/hoping there seems to be a lot of people under the impression that Rural whites (apparently believed to be GOP'ers) are most of the recent victims.

Having not seen any actual... you know, evidence of that... I checked out the CDC.

They have these cool interactive graphs and data to access.

Total deaths and death rates are not the same thing.

700 people may die of C19 in the NYC area in a week... and that is a far lower death rate than the 15 that die in some upstate NY County but in gross numbers... NYC leads the State, by far.

But in the larger States I looked at... it seems like 75%+ of the fatalities (in the State) are in the big blue counties.



So... I guess some are theorizing that in big blue Counties, it's actually just the GOP'ers that are dying.

I'd need to see evidence of that because it sounds laughable, actually.

How about people stop rooting for the deaths of others?

There is NO political GAIN to be made from people dying.

[WarGamer]

90. self deleting because so many really want/need their opinions to be fact.

And discussion just isn't fruitful, even when trying to convince people that a D vs R fatality scorecard is ghoulish and certainly beneath all of us...