Should vaccine disinformation, denial, and out-right lies about vaccines be protected free speech?

[Imallin4Joe]

Should it be protected under the 1st Amendment?

The Covid pandemic is a world-wide public health crisis. It is also a crisis within our own country.

The unvaxxed are spreading this highly contagious Omicron variant like wildfire. Vaxxed/boosted people are not the spreaders of this disease.

The unvaxxed are.

The so-called "right" to disinform has proven once again to be DEADLY.

Whenever their forked-tongues barf out their antiscience babble, people die. Joe Rogan, Fox etc.

Anti-vax disinformation kills people. Anti-science babble kills people.

Should disinformation be able to overwhelm our medical system and cause some medical professionals to leave the medical field for good?

Disinformation IS overwhelming our medical system.

Is that what free speech is all about?

Speech that kills people should NOT be protected under the 1st.

Most hate speech isn't protected under the first and is often a felony. We can't run into a theater and yell fire.

[CommonHumanity]

1. NO

No free speech for lies that kill.

I don't think this can apply to the misinformed and misled individual. They should face a virtual avalanche of truth from public sources.

It should apply to public media platforms and the spreaders of propaganda.

[elleng]

4. They should face a virtual avalanche of truth from public sources, YES, IMMEDIATELY.

Dems MUST NOW develop a FAST response approach.

RAPID RESPONSE

[elleng]

2. Has to be 'protected,' and ALSO has to be responded to/kicked BACK from IMMEDIATELY.

[littlemissmartypants]

3. Isn't there a expression that says something like

You're entitled to your own speech but you're not entitled to your own facts?

I think it's something like that...

[GoneOffShore]

7. Pretty close, but I'm going with Harlan Ellison.

“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.”

― Harlan Ellison

[cadoman]

9. what poor Harlan wasn't prepared for was the age of "muh own research"

I may suggest a small revision:

"You are entitled to your own expert-endorsed, informed opinion."

Meaning, your opinion is valid as long as some sort of accredited expert shares it, or if perhaps you are an accredited expert yourself. Opinion making in this age involves seeking out accredited, fact-checked experts, and picking the one that best matches your gut feel for an issue.

Speaking of Harlan, wouldn't it be great to see a revised version of the TickTock Man where the main character is conscientious of the desire of his fellow man for order, predictability, and safety? I've always thought that work was a bit of a sly endorsement of whimsical tomfoolery.

[GoneOffShore]

15. Good point. I'm going to use your revision. Thank you.

[LetsGoBiden]

5. Free speech

As ignorant as some people are it is free speech 🎤 f covidiots want to kill them self let them only Republicans would be reading that drivel anyway

[Polybius]

6. Yes

Sometimes I enjoy watching a nut for a good laugh. I don't like when they're censored.

[GoneOffShore]

16. I do. I like hate speech and nonsense to be shut down. Preferably with a stick.

[Polybius]

18. I wasn't talking about hate speech

I was talking about conspiracy nuts.

[GoneOffShore]

24. Okay. Conspiracy nuts do real harm.

YMMV

[cadoman]

8. FUCKING FUCK NOOOO

It is even more dangerous to criticize the vaccines than it is to not take them, because it undermines confidence in them.



I was furious to hear that barely even 50% of Democrats are supportive of mandates. (Oh, because we may need "camps" to do the mandates means we can't do mandates? Stop being fools!). We have huge numbers of pregnant women succumbing to fear and utterly failing to understand the basic facts and science that these vaccines are 100% FDA tested and vetted for safe and effective use at ALL stages of pregnancy. BIPOC are still not pulling their weight on vaccinations and need a massive education and mandate campaign to bring them up to speed. We may even literally need to refund the police to vaccinate massive numbers of science-resistant brown bodies.

What on earth is wrong with us? We are supposed to be leading by example but there's no educating the vaccine hesitant (a.k.a shitheads) at this point. We need to proceed to the Australia solution and that is to mandate this shit before it's too late. We got damned lucky with Omicron. The next variant will be even more damaging and spread more rapidly, with even more deaths to the obstinate unvaccinated unless we act.

MANDATE the damn vaccine. Ban Putin-directed PROPAGANDA that is occurring against it! Declare WAR and FULL STATE OF EMERGENCY against it if necessary!

[Celerity]

10. Yes, and the OP is incorrect. Most hate speech IS protected. De-rec.

[Corgigal]

11. Can't be protected

if it can hurt or kill others.

See yelling fire in a crowded theater.

[SheltieLover]

12. Exactly!

[WhiskeyGrinder]

19. "Yelling fire in a crowded theater" is not the standard.

[Kaleva]

26. Yelling fire in a crowded theater is protected

One may be liable for damages but I think it was in 68 that the Supreme Court reversed it's earlier decision where the yelling fire in a crowded theater came from.

I'm on my phone and I don't know how to cut and paste links with it

[Emile]

13. FRAUD is not free speech! Only a con man would think it is!

[Busterscruggs]

14. If it could be

Proven that the speech harmed or killed someone, the person making that speech should be punished the same as if they shot the victim. Words are like bullets, once they are out, you can't control the damage they do.

[Sgent]

17. Yes and no

defamation against vaccines shouldn't be free speech (so false statements of fact), but if people want to opine on not getting shots go for it -- they just can't use false statements of fact to back up their opinions.

In theory, this is already the case if the vaccine makers wanted to pursue this against everyone on the internet, and I don't think having the government step in for the common law rights of the vaccine makers (or Fauci, etc.) is a free speech problem.

[Lurker Deluxe]

21. how does that work?

Never buy a RAM truck.

Allowed.

Never buy a RAM truck because they do not have catalytic converters.

Not allowed as includes a false statement of fact.

There are not enough courts in the world.

[Sgent]

22. As for not having enough courts

yea, that's a problem. That said, I don't see any other way of shutting people up than doing it in court -- even if we adopt some sort of "speech code" someone would have to enforce it.

The other half of this could be changing S230 such that the platform becomes a publisher if they continue to monetize defamatory videos and possibly authors (although this is more circumspect).

[Sympthsical]

20. Authoritarianism under the guise of "health and safety" rarely goes well

The First Amendment is what it is.

We have done just about what we can to convince people to do what is in their own interests. Yes, it creates a strain when idiocy reigns, but idiots are going to idiot.

Once you start carving out exceptions for our rights - even if you think it's a good idea - the next carve out will become easier. And you may not think that next one is such a good idea. But what if it's for your health and safety?

Let's not go down that road. The First Amendment is first for a very good reason.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

23. Well said n/t

[RobinA]

25. Yes

There are other ways to combat it without attacking the Constitution.

[scarytomcat]

27. NO is like shouting fire in a crowded theater

when there is no fire