How would it go if I praised Ted Nugent around here.

[edhopper]

We know what would happen.

So while I liked Meat Loaf's music as much as the next person, I can't praise or mourn a man who was an anti-vax, anti-mask Trump supporter who brought on his own death.

We routinely ridicule people here who railed against COVID measures and then die.

Is Meat Loaf different from a pastor or politician or radio host because he had a good voice?


(Was he vaccinated? They won't say. But based on his public comments and how rare deaths from COVID among the vaccinated are, the assumption is, he was not)


And yes, Nugent is way more of an asshole than Meat Loaf, but I am making a point.

[PJMcK]

1. Mostly, I agree

Meat Loaf was a Republican idiot who died from his own stupidity.

I, for one, am not a fan of his music. Sorry, but his songs never appealed to me.

[underpants]

6. Never was a fan either

“Paradise” was almost a parody song just because radio stations wouldn’t play it or only late at night.

“Anything for Love” was, to me, another LEGEND taking their last shot with lame synth top 40 80’s music drivel. I’m including Greg Allmann and Heart in that too - who I actually love.

[ARPad95]

12. Meat Loaf gave credit to John Belushi and Gilda Radner for insisting he be invited on SNL

as the musical guest in 1978. Two of his best friends. After that, the BOOH album took off.

He shared that info in an interview he did with Dan Rather in 2016 (at 19:50 minute mark):

[ARPad95]

2. Meat Loaf voted for Democrats as far back as 1972 when George McGovern ran for president.

Along the way, he enumerates who he’s voted for: McGovern, Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Obama the first term but not the second. As for Trump, whom he met several times while filming Celebrity Apprentice, he’s been reluctant to talk about him. It’s the same today. “I’m not gonna tell ya,” he says, mulishly, when asked who he voted for in 2016.

But if you shout at him loud enough, maybe moan something like, “Oh, come on!” he’ll once again demur, only to shrug, lower his voice and say, “I voted for Trump.” But that’s all he says. He doesn’t say why or how he feels about him now, which just about says it all regardless.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/the-sound-and-the-fury-of-meat-loaf-i-am-not-a-rock-star-201874/

Maybe he realized he made a mistake in 2016? We'll never know, I guess.

Also he has 2 daughters. His 1st wife's daughter from a previous relationship whom he adopted and raised and their daughter together.

[iemanja]

58. He performed for Mitt Romney

[ARPad95]

62. Yes, he did.

He performed at the 1997 pre-inauguration ball for President Bill Clinton.

[iemanja]

63. so what?

He's not a Democrat now. People don't get points for past votes when they are anti-vaxx Trumpers. Besides, his music is shit. I'm not dancing on his grave, but this white washing is ridiculous.

[gay texan]

3. I'm in the same boat

Ted Nugent is a pretty decent guitar player. he can write some good licks.

Aside from that fact, he's a bully, a child rapist, a wanna be tough guy, a draft dodger, racist, and an unpleasant person to be around.

[2naSalit]

9. I can't say he was much of a talent in his prime...

And all the other parts about him make him unworthy of my gaze or attention. In the early days, when Ted was an unknown, My former BIL was his musical rival. My ex and the BIL told me some stories that made me despise wangotangoman way back then.

[yaesu]

39. plus he likes to do a lot of killin and grillin

I've spent a lot of time, mostly snowmobiling, in the area his MI ranch was. It was pretty secluded and well guarded. Wasn't sad when he moved to Texas.

[brewens]

4. I thought I slammed "Uncle Ted" by saying he was backup for Meatloaf on the Nugent Free For

All album. I didn't praise Meatloaf either, but that is where I first heard the guy. It was a joke but some didn't take it that way. I picked the worst song too. Hammerdown. There's another slower song that's really pretty good.

[Tommymac]

5. Liked the music, not so much the man.

Agree with OP.

[MissMillie]

7. Recently, I have stopped saying "I like (enter name here) . " because I am too often disappointed

I have changed my language to " ( enter name here) seems very likeable" or make statements about the music or the acting performance or athletic achievement.

I did like Meatloaf's voice, but didn't like the "I would do anything for love but I won't do that" song. and I knew nothing about him personally.

There's absolutely nothing I like about Ted Nugent.

I thought Aaron Rodgers did a GREAT job guest-hosting Jeopardy. He seemed very likeable. Fooled again!

From now on... I won't make a blanket statement that I like some famous person. It turns out they can disappoint you every bit as much as non-famous people do. They're human.

[viva la]

8. Ever since I loved Pound's cantos...

only to read more about him and find he had actually done propaganda during wartime for Mussolini (and he was an American, so this was treason during wartime-- he's lucky he wasn't executed)....

I decided that I would prefer to enjoy art and music and literature without regard for biography. Probably very many great artists had blemished pasts or terrible politics or quisling attempts to get patronage from oligarchs.

Maybe creating great music and art and literature is their souls' way of subconsciously atoning for their life rottenness.

So it matters to me that Ted Nugent is a lousy musician AND a rotten human being.

It matters to me that Meatloaf became so terrible and Trumpy. But it also matters that I like his music a lot. It makes me laugh and sing along.
I don't mean to make this some kind of general rule, because everyone has every right to weight their priorities. And certainly there are artists who even I utterly reject for their politics, especially when they used their art to push the bad politics.

Meat Loaf paid a price for his terrible allegiance -- far more than Trump himself will probably ever pay. BTW, from what I read, Meat Loaf was resentful and felt unappreciated as a musician... and resentful people seem to be the most willing to be seduced by Trump. What a execrable talent-- to make resentful people more bitter and violent.

[Jerry2144]

10. That is a real challenge

Appreciating the art without endorsing the person and any odious viewpoints that person holds. I enjoy his music but refused to contribute to him financially. So I still have the original CDs of a couple of his albums that are ripped to my cloud accounts and I listen to when I want to, but I will not stream his stuff from any streaming service (so no royalties from my listening).

[LENNY0229]

11. Meat Loaf had some flaws in this vein but not like Ted.

Deserves credit for his art. I never heard of Meat Loaf being like Ted who has
made a second career out of being an ultra right wing racist scumbag.

I can still admire Meat Loaf's art even if I disagree with his politics. Great vocalist and performer.

As to Ted, a Covid death would be too good for him. He's beyond the pale.

[Demsrule86]

15. I met MeatLoaf in Connecticut years ago, he lived in a town near mine...a friend of mine who

was a realtor and did childcare for extra money babysat for him. He wanted an adult no a teen...very protective of his kids-daughters as I remember He agreed to meet me since I was a fan and signed an autograph. He was very nice- completely gracious. He is nothing like child rapist Ted Nugent

[Piasladic]

42. This story softens me.

I usually just say good riddance when anti-vaxers die, but your story of his humanity makes me feel a bit sad too.

[2naSalit]

13. Never liked his music...

Seeing that he was on tfg's stupid teevee show only makes me think even less of him.

[Baltimike]

14. He was certainly anti-vax, so he was either not vaxxed or a complete hypocrite.

https://www.gbnews.uk/news/meat-loaf-died-from-covid-after-speaking-out-about-vaccines/210443

[GaYellowDawg]

16. I've never liked Meat Loaf.

Neither the singer nor the dish. He got what he deserved.

[panader0]

17. Good voice you say? Check out him "singing" with Mitts:

As another DUer pointed out, the guy can sing in all keys in just one song. I never thought he
was good or cared for him, long before I knew he was a trumper.

[Jilly_in_VA]

18. Music is one thing

Politics are quite another. I'm kinda fond of Big & Rich's music ("Save a Horse, Ride a Cowboy" never fails to make me laugh, and I love "Holy Water" ) but politically they're assholes and I'll be the first to say it and I WON'T go to their concerts or buy any of it.

[BlackSkimmer]

19. I didn't care for his music much.

I won’t praise him, nor will I rejoice in his death.

[stopdiggin]

44. where I'm at

thought his music was pretty mediocre - and thus won't be singing any praises. But his politics (and anti-vax derangement syndrome) are not enough for me to be celebrating his death either.

Nugent and Charlie Daniels (et.al.) - can go quietly , and without comment.

[BlackSkimmer]

48. Exactly.

No one’s death gives me any joy.

Tfg? Relief, probably.

[hamsterjill]

71. Well said.

I actually liked his music but not his political stance.

It’s simply not necessary for anyone to rejoice in another’s death. Death is finite and the end.

Refraining from that is called “decency”. Those who can’t refrain in my opinion show me more about “them” than the dead person they mention.

[kcr]

20. Agreed

But some people get off on the holier-than-thou finger wagging. Everyone needs a hobby.

[Fullduplexxx]

21. Let's go darwin... he wins the herman cain award for genius

[empedocles]

22. Maybe we've had enough reheated meatloaf here?

[senseandsensibility]

23. I guess the difference is that Nugent didn't just die.

Don't speak ill of the dead and all that, a philosophy I pretty much subscribe to.

[edhopper]

24. Except when any Covidiot dies

we are full of threads ridiculing them.

Is Meat Loaf exempt because people had his albums?

[GoneOffShore]

25. He was anti-vaxx. And as to his music, well....

A little bit torn on this, but not enough to find the cellotape.
When his stuff came up on the radio, I wouldn't change stations, but neither would I turn up the volume.

Aural wallpaper with a pattern I wouldn't want in a closet.

[WA-03 Democrat]

26. I am sad

I want to see Mr. Nugget struggle on the Trump Pump (ventalator) and if someone had to go either him or DJT should logically go first. Meat Loaf was not on my Covid Bingo Card.

[Ohio Joe]

27. And what is that point?

You have zero tolerance for political disagreement?

[Initech]

28. Anti-vaxxers don't get sympathy from me for many reasons.

First they are clogging up our hospitals and ICUs that could be better spent helping actual people who need our medical resources the most.

Second, when they start comparing vaccine mandates to the holocaust because, show me your papers, that is extremely racist and very disrespectful to actual holocaust victims.

And finally third, they deliberately *CHOSE* to be assholes about the vaccine. Meat Loaf definitely fell into the second and third categories about this.

So that said...

[marie999]

29. Wagner is not banned in Israel but very seldom is his work ever played.

I listen to Wagner a lot. I guess I will play music I like written or played by an anti-Semite as long as they are dead.

[Progressive Jones]

30. Related Trivia. Meatloaf sang on Nugent's "Free For All" album, and did a great job.

I don't care much for Meatloaf's music, but he certainly pulled off the hard rock stuff on this Nugent album.

More related trivia. Meatloaf's son in law is Scott Ian, a founding member, songwriter, and guitarist
in the Metal band Anthrax.

[jcgoldie]

31. A deep dive into meat loaf...

Found this and it sort of made my morning...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/01/04/meat-loaf-here-are-his-claims-about-greta-thunberg-and-climate-change/?sh=330fc68c59ea

[NNadir]

32. Meatloaf is another of those famous people about whom I know nothing who gets commentary when dying.

If he was a Trumper antivaxxer, well, look, I don't have much against Darwin awards.

I probably heard some of his music somewhere but didn't know who he was and never cared enough to find out who he was.

[Dukkha]

33. I never believed death to be a universal exoneration

If you want people to say nice about you when you're dead, then you better do nice things when you're alive to warrant it. Always be respectful and polite of course, but honesty should never be taboo for the deceased.

[highplainsdem]

34. I was never much of a fan of Meat Loaf's music, but IMO anyone who is has every right

to mourn his passing as an artist.

People are multifaceted. Most of us are flawed in some ways. I've never met any saints, including political ones.

We routinely overlook or minimize bad behavior by politicians we agree with, while often loudly condemning similar behavior from RW politicians.

I don't know which singers and musicians you admire, but I think it's a safe bet that many of the male singers and musicians have treated the women they've met in ways feminists would disapprove of. But we overlook that because they're artists.

So unless you're sure everyone you've praised here has led a perfectly exemplary life with views that could withstand any interrogation by liberals, I think you might consider tolerating people praising Meat Loaf's music.

I haven't seen anyone praising his political and anti-vax views.

[BannonsLiver]

52. Terrific post

Last edited Wed Jan 26, 2022, 11:55 PM - Edit history (1)

I always come back to the fact that hate is exhausting and I try to pick my spots.

[highplainsdem]

66. Thanks! And I agree with you completely about hate being exhausting.

[AverageOldGuy]

35. Never heard of Meatloaf . . .

. . . until last week when PBS Nightly News had a segment on him. Wife and I looked at each other and asked: "Who?"

[packman]

36. I agree - May hate his politics, but Meat was a unique artist

Now, Ted, that's a horse of a different color.

I find myself listening to his songs now with a different outlook - he was good at his energy and style - one of a kind.

[dameatball]

37. I knew who he was and that's about it. Never paid much attention to him. For whatever reason he just

never made much of an impression, but that is sort of how I am with music anyway....hit and miss I suppose.

[paleotn]

38. Never liked his music. Never liked him.

He may not be the ultra scumbag Nugent is, but anyone stupid or wicked enough to befriend Trump can kiss my ass. Period.

[Paladin]

40. X 1000. Thank you. (nt)

[kenisgod1]

41. They're both great musicians, but horrible human beings...

[left-of-center2012]

43. I was no fan of Meatloaf

And based on the few clips I've seen on the news in the past few days I don't know how anyone could be.

Each clip they showed had his singing voice drowned out by loud music.

And if he was an anti-vaxxer who died of covid,
why is he being praised?

A 'singer',
drowned out by loud music,
who mocked vaccines.

In my humble opinion, of course.

[KS Toronado]

45. It's OK to praise Ted Nugent all you want on DU

everybody includes this....

[SCantiGOP]

46. You can't find a worse anti-Semite than Richard Wagner

but that won't stop me from listening to his music.
His music was not allowed to be performed in any publicly-owned venues in Israel until the rule was changed in the last decade. His music is some of the greatest and totally transformed his era.
I can listen to him, or to Meat Loaf, without giving a passing thought to their politics.
I can understand, and support, boycotting performances while they are alive, but once they have passed on I don't see the point.

[Advrider28]

47. First Impression:

Music has been my passion for most of my life. I can remember when "Born to Run" blew me away in the 70's. SNL was a go to for new artists. Meatloaf's performance was forever branded in my mind as well as Elvis Costello! Meatloaf faded pretty fast , but "You took the Words Right Out of my Mouth" still lives on my playlist.
Aztecjaguar

[fescuerescue]

49. Some people do that. Not everyone

"We routinely ridicule people here who railed against COVID measures and then die. "

Personally, I think it's pretty low class to ridicule people who got sick and died. I guess it makes some people feel better about themselves when they do that.

But that's just me.

[ripcord]

50. But we make exceptions

FDR signed a racist executive order that sent U.S. citizens to concentration camps based set on their skin color and refused to support the anti lynching act. We aren't calling for the statue at him at his memorial to be taken down, sometimes our respect at a person's other accomplishments causes us to consider that person as a whole rather than just that bad acts.

[EX500rider]

55. "FDR signed a racist executive order...."

.... that sent U.S. citizens to concentration camps based set on their skin color"

It was based on national country of origin, not skin color, other Asians weren't rounded up.
They also rounded up a lot of Germans & Italians and put restrictions on the ones they didn't.
The first persons “relocated” under Executive Order 9066 were over 10,000 German- and Italian-Americans, beginning in February of 1942. These people were also forcibly removed from the West Coast, because the military commander for the region believed there were Axis agents among them who would provide material aid to a Japanese invasion.

[ripcord]

56. It was different for those that were white

The German and Italian Americans were investigated individually and no executive order was issued rounding them all up.
Whole families weren't put in contration camps with no evidence of wrong doing, perhaps you can show me the pictures of German and Italian children being rounded up and sent to concentration camps.

[EX500rider]

59. The Japanese were allowed out of the camps to live elsewhere

if they would renounce the Emperor of Japan and swear allegiance to the United States.
The West coast was still off limits though.
Many of the Japanese-Americans interned were disloyal, many openly so. Of those military age males who spent the war in the camps, only six percent volunteered for military service. And many of those interned were, by their own admission, loyal to Japan, not America.

[ripcord]

61. You are very ignorant of the facts

Only about 8,500 of the 120,000 Japanese Americans interred refused to renounce Japan and swear allegiance to the U.S. Many of the military aged that were held in camps didn't enlist because the U.S. shit on them, would you help someone who had imprisoned your family for no reason? You need to do some research.

[EX500rider]

64. The Japanese-American case for loyalty wasn't helped by the Niʻihau incident..

..on the 1st day of the war. The 1st time a Imperial Japanese soldier comes in contact with Japanese Americans they help him escape and fight.

The Niʻihau incident occurred on December 7–13, 1941, when Imperial Japanese Navy Air Service pilot Shigenori Nishikaichi (西開地 重徳, Nishikaichi Shigenori) crash-landed his Zero on the Hawaiian island of Niʻihau after participating in the attack on Pearl Harbor. The Imperial Japanese Navy had designated Niʻihau as an uninhabited island for damaged aircraft to land and await rescue.

The pilot shared information about the Pearl Harbor attack with island locals of Japanese descent. Native Hawaiian residents were initially unaware of the attack, but apprehended Nishikaichi when the gravity of the situation became apparent. The pilot then sought and received the assistance of the three residents of Japanese descent on the island in overcoming his captors, finding weapons, and taking several hostages

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niihau_incident


Nearly a quarter of the internees left the camps to live and work elsewhere in the United States, outside the exclusion zone.

The "loyalty questionnaire" results:

Question 27: Are you willing to serve in the armed forces of the United States on combat duty, wherever ordered?
Question 28: Will you swear unqualified allegiances to the United States of America and faithfully defend the United States from any and all attack by foreign or domestic forces, and forswear any form of allegiance or obedience to the Japanese emperor, or other foreign government, power or organization?

17 percent of the total respondents answered "No" to both questions.

[ripcord]

65. There is a reason the U.S. gave reparations and a formal apology to the internees

Because the actions locking them up were wrong and anti American, you need to read what the national archives has on this.

https://www.archives.gov/research/japanese-americans/justice-denied

You would think that the first place they would have interred Japanese Americans would have been Pearl Harbor but that never happened, thankfully the officials there were sane and not racist.

[Sympthsical]

51. Then don't be outraged when the Right does it

When the Right celebrates the death of a liberal or laughs at one of us getting Covid, let's just leave that anger unpublished.

What was it called here? I believe the word sociopathic was thrown around several times when someone on the Right engaged in the behavior. It did with Laura Ingraham last week. All kinds of descriptive words for her laughing and clapping at someone getting Covid.

Ok. So her behavior is ok by the rules and standards being set out. Let's abide by them.

There's no dispensation because of party ID or ideology. There's no, "It's ok if I behave poorly, because I think the correct way!" 1984 wasn't intended as a lasting guide.

If shitty behavior is fine, and you're good with the people around you celebrating death of people who think differently than you - even if they were minor in their expression of it or not at all in the case of a 19 year old who died in an accident - then we can cork the outrage of superiority when the Right are being awful people.

Because we're signalling that being awful people is kind of ok as long as it's towards the Other.

Side note: I laugh about the Nugent thing. What a poor comparison. Most people had no idea about Meat Loaf's politics until he died. I know I didn't. And all my liberal and Democratic friends who liked him are mourning him. Only in this sandbox is the dirt being kicked around like this. Everyone knows about Nugent. Not all of us are so obsessed that we run artists and celebrities through Correct Thinking monitors before we allow ourselves to enjoy them. Again, 1984. Wasn't meant to be a suggestion.

[BannonsLiver]

53. Does the hate ever become exhausting?

[edhopper]

57. For Trumpers?

No

[ProfessorGAC]

54. Meatloaf Had A Decent Voice

Nugent was never the best guitar player in his own band, unless he was the only guitar player.
His playing is pedestrian, at best, and his song writing is nothing to get worked up about.
So, the comparison doesn't really work.
But, I get your point.

[cadoman]

60. we are progressing to the point where we understand the unvaxxed are not humans

At least, not in the sense we've traditionally thought of humans. Being human requires a sense of decency and willingness to participate and help society. Understanding that the unvaxxed don't pass that threshold will really open up some new techniques to deal with them.

Look to Australia, Israel, Canada, and NZ. They are leading the way towards a new global Democratic society, founded on science and reason rather than slavery, religion, and Freedumb.

We are the party that will bury the mistake of Freedumb in the past where it belongs. Absolute trust in, and respect for the scientific consensus is the litmus test for participation in this new global society. Needless to say, there won't be any unvaccinated walking abouts in this new world.

Oh yeah, and fuck Ted Nugent. Hope he joins Meatloaf soon.

And lastly, masking was up BIGTIME in the stores today. Think I feel a wind of change blowing in. Wear a mask and get boosted--it's the only way out of this!

[fishwax]

67. I don't think meatloaf and nugent are in the same league in either music or lunacy

I wasn't really a fan of meatloaf, though there are a couple of songs I like. But in terms of talent and pop culture impact I think meatloaf is in a different class than nugent (who would be mostly forgotten today but for the attention that his political views provide him via appearances with other right wing heroes). And apparently he's been off his rocker with the covid stuff, but his political shift seems to be a more recent thing (dating back to Romney or something). Again, Nugent is in a totally different class when it comes to objectionable views. It's just not a fair comparison. If DUers feel like mourning him they should. If DUers want to talk shit about his recent political views, they clearly have cause. I'd expect an entirely different balance here wrt to meatloaf than for Nugent's eventual passing.

Similarly, when Van Morrison dies, I'm going to be sad because his amazing run from "Gloria" through Veedon Fleece produced a lot of great music that has meant a lot to me over the years. But he's covid crazy too, alas.

[canetoad]

69. Dial it down will ya.

[Raine]

70. OK sure ... don't want to upset anyone

overly .