'I want you to see what a s***show America is': Frank Luntz warns the UK

[Mr. Sparkle]

Last edited Fri Jan 28, 2022, 08:42 AM - Edit history (2)

But during his more recent sojourn there, he said he had a chance to reflect on the trends that have shaped US politics over the last several years and compare them to those on the other side of the “special relationship”. He told his guests the clip they were about to see demonstrated the difference between the two countries right now in a way that did not reflect well on his homeland. “I want to show you what a s***show America is,” he said. What followed had more in common with an old episode of The Jerry Springer Show than the focus groups for which Luntz has become known over the years. Instead of a calm, thoughtful moderated discussion, the participants screamed at each other.

One elderly man ranted about how “God chooses the colour of our skin,” while another droned on about how “economic opportunity for Blacks just has increased dramatically” because “they” were “all over Hollywood” and in “every other commercial”. The clip ended before things degenerated even further, at which point Luntz explained why he’d wanted to put that shocking material on display. “This is what I hear. I don't hear this in the UK … I don’t want to hear this,” he said. Luntz said he had brought that horrific video clip with him to meetings with “a number of shadow Labour” leaders, as well as with prominent Conservatives and Liberal Democrats. “This is my warning to you,” he explained. “This is s***, this is a disaster, and it will come if you let it happen”.

Many Democrats trace the “disaster” Luntz spoke of back to 1994, when Republicans used language and talking points he had crafted for them to convince US voters to give them control of the House of Representatives for the first time in decades. Four years before that, the then-leader of the House GOP, Newt Gingrich had enlisted Luntz to develop talking points for his political action committee, Gopac. A memorandum he allegedly wrote for Gopac called Language: A Key Mechanism of Control lays out “contrasting words” for Republicans to use when talking about Democrats. But in a 2019 interview with Mother Jones, he denied having anything to do with the document, calling it “as cynical and evil as anything that’s been written in American politics and “the most destructive political memo written in modern politics” because “all it did” was “teach hate and division”. The result, he said, was that America’s democracy had “seized up”.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/frank-luntz-polls-us-boris-johnson-b2002106.html

[gab13by13]

1. He should be doing this presentation in the US not the UK.

He loaded the bullets for the crazies.

[Wingus Dingus]

37. Yes.

[PCIntern]

2. I love how these educated right wingers

Last edited Fri Jan 28, 2022, 10:12 AM - Edit history (1)

All of a sudden have developed a conscience, and are decrying the nature of political speech and American society in general. These bastards didn’t just sow the seeds, they watered the plants and harvested them, sold them at a premium to every asshole who owns a computer or watches TV in the United States of America. We are all victims of their propaganda and as bad as the Red scare was, this is arguably worse. Guys (and ladies) like Frank Luntz should be metaphorically drawn and quartered for what they did.

[tavernier]

5. He created the shit show

and now claims total innocence. I have no interest in his crocodile tears. Go away Luntz.

[Cosmocat]

13. Yep - until he says "this is the mess I played a big role in creating"

he can go fuck himself.

[GoCubsGo]

3. Frank Luntz quotes Steve Urkel.

"Did I do that? Hee hee hee hee. Snort. Snort."

[betsuni]

4. Thanks, Dr. Luntz-Frankenstein. Whatever.

[Klaralven]

6. It seems like the natural consequence of a two party system

If you form people into two opposing teams, thing are likely get intensely competitive in the absence of any external factors like a Cold War to force them together.

[TigressDem]

9. Competition is a natural consequence of a two party system. Lying and cheating is just that.

Lying and cheating is something all together different than honest competition.

Competition is inherently rough and tumble at times, even aggressive and violent - from the Olympics to Wall Street and up to and including war if we go to the end of the spectrum on it.

However, the dishonesty and cheating the system to win is all about winning without earning it.

THAT is not a natural consequence of a two party system. It's fraud.

THAT is the criminal element dressing up and selling themselves as legitimate because their crimes are only "white collar" crimes that don't "really hurt" anyone, except about 99% of us who have to live with the results of their decisions to turn the country upside down on a whim.

IMHO

[Klaralven]

12. Politicians have been lying and cheating forever

[whathehell]

18. Sounds like false equivalence..

Anyone paying attention knows that today's Republicans, together with their mouthpieces on Cable News, have surpassed all previous records in terms of political lies.

[Klaralven]

20. The Democratic Party, pre-Civil War, would probably be right up there

[whathehell]

21. Yes, well, that WAS over one and a half centuries ago..

[Klaralven]

24. William M. Tweed -- more recently

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_M._Tweed

I could go on.

[whathehell]

27. William M.Tweed, 1823 - 1878?

"More recently"?

[TigressDem]

47. Yep.

The propaganda is so thick, you can lay it down and walk on water with it.

Or at least that's what they say.


Who the H### ever "THEY" are.

[whathehell]

51. Hi Tigress

Yes, betcha. I'm old enough to remember when broadcast media was subject to the Fairness
Doctrine....Like Civics classes in schools, it went away during the Reagan Administration. We could certainly use both of those now.

[TigressDem]

46. Well, that was what tar and feathers were for.

Last edited Mon Jan 31, 2022, 07:12 AM - Edit history (1)

The idea of American Democracy is that if our elected officials can't do the job we elect them to do, we boot them out and get someone who will.

Being jaded and just giving up on Democracy isn't actually what the DU is for, is it?


WTF is wrong with people these days?


I know it is a sh## show out there, but do we have to do all the work for the rethugs on our own bulletin board?

THAT** IS A RETHUG TALKING POINT.

Step away from the stupid.


**Politicians have been lying forever or some sort of both sides do it

[C_U_L8R]

7. Is he signing his work?

What craftsmanship, Luntz. Your GOP is the shittiest of shitshows.

[Omnipresent]

8. Our National loonesy stems from the British.

Our founding father’s were of of British descent and spoke with english accents, just like Prime Minister North and King George.

Nevermind that they were also greedy, rich, white men that thought slaves, women, and all animals were put on this earth for their disposal.

[BannonsLiver]

19. And we've now Lapped them 10 times.

Nobody does batshit crazy like we do. America is peerless in that regard.

[whathehell]

23. Nah, they've been at it longer..

and despite a short relapse, seem now to be catching up.

[Wingus Dingus]

36. Lunacy.

[Baitball Blogger]

10. "Contrasting words"

Well, that explains how we ended up in a bizzaro rabbit hole. The only way out is to sue where the wording is slanderous or libelous. Methinks.

[Takket]

11. Yeah because the UK is a bastion of racial and ethnic harmony

Brexit anyone???

[geardaddy]

32. Bingo.

[sop]

14. Luntz is a professional corporate media liar. We need to change the Libel laws in the US.

In the US if the media lies about you and you sue, you must prove what they said was false. UK libel law reverses the burden of proof for media; they have to prove what they said was true.

To win a libel case in the UK, the plaintiff only needs to demonstrate the statement damaged their reputation. The plaintiff doesn't have to show the statement was false, the defendant must prove what they said was true.

[Carlitos Brigante]

15. He, his lame tup and his stupid ass shoes can all go fuck themselves. He created this, along

with that fucking biscuit head Gingrich, with his "patriotic" mini Vienna sausage.

[Chernevog]

16. I have been discussing this

It is still working rather well because Republicans still use one of the main insults created in this document created by Gingrich and Luntz... but I still constantly call Democrats either socialist or communist and first thing that Democrats do is they jump to try to defend socialism

My response is always to point out that these social programs that Democrats tried to create were actually first created in Europe by European conservatives in the Christian Democratic party applying Christian principles to Democratic Government...
This is actually true and it diffuses the constant Republican attacks on Democrats as being socialist. You can go back to the history of all of these social programs in Continental Europe and you're always going to find out that it was Christian Democratic politicians who started them... of course Mitt Romney started his own health insurance mandate by copying European Christian Democratic model and Obama followed suit with Obamacare Republicans still call it socialism and Democrats respond by trying to defend socialism...

It would actually be a better strategy to point out that all of this stuff was created by European Christians trying to create a more Christian Society than trying to defend socialism...

It doesn't matter how factual all of this is because there is some wiggle room in the role social democrats played, but by and large I have use this strategy during a debate and it has left conservatives flummoxed...

When you point out that the concept of social security was created by Otto von Bismarck one of the most conservative figures of the 19th century they just don't know how to respond

[ProfessorGAC]

40. Good First Post, But...

..you "constantly call democrats socialists"?
You think that's a habit that fly here at DU?
Not sure i see the value of that, though your historical basis for promoting or defending social programs seems valid.

[Mr. Sparkle]

45. Nice post, welcome to DU!

[TigressDem]

48. You know who would be the party to string Jesus up in our time and call him a traitor, RIGHT?

Jesus walked up to "the woman at the well" who was "not married" but still enjoying some activity.... maybe a prostitute and he turned her into a devoted follower who left that life behind.

He said, "Feed my sheep" multiple times just before he was crucified and he wasn't just talking about food for thought.

There ARE a lot of Christian programs that help the downtrodden, BUT if the REICH WING wants to call US One Nation Under God, then WE THE PEOPLE should quit whining about our tax dollars going to help the poor. Especially anyone with 4 - 5 houses and people to clean them.

[hatrack]

17. "I helped turn America into a shitshow and got PAID to do it - want to see?"

Pillsbury Ho Boy can go fuck himself.

[LakeArenal]

26. The problem is that Luntz was extra good at formulating talking points.

Like SS becoming an entitlement.

He opened the pandorian box and now his shit has spread world wide.

[hatrack]

50. And so now he's . . . what, begging forgiveness? What's the point of this schtick?

He pimped bad ideas for GOP hacks for decades.

He made a shitload of money in the process.

And now he's trying to convince us he didn't really mean any of it/is a good person/has earned our attention and/or respect because he's not like those Republicans?

[LakeArenal]

52. I guess. Maybe he could turn some good talking points against "THEM".

[Boomerproud]

22. Own it or go home Frankie.

[skip fox]

25. Luntz is the problem.

He spent two decades feeding the Republicans ways to spin their repressive and regressive and hateful positions by testing phrases and ideas on focus groups. He;s the one that came up with "death tax" and supported Gingrich and his divisive politics,

Now he's decrying the division? . . . For f's sake!

And every time he's confronted, his face looks like the face of a freshly strapped child in a Dickens novel.

[UTUSN]

28. All his presentation needed to be was him standing there. He created the "DemoCRAT" as adjective

meme, with the ungrammatical sound grating.

How dare him compare his *real* damage to Jerry, who for all his spectacle and his eons-ago personal fracas, is a real gentleman and treats his guests with understanding and humanity. Jerry is the first one to mock his spectacle, while LUNTZ does the wingnut trademark thing of pointing to a out there instead of looking inside.

[poli-junkie]

29. And his toupee looks goofy as well

[peggysue2]

30. Luntz has gall to narrate a cautionary tale to the UK

The man was one of the top right-wing scribes using language to provoke, confuse and spread hate across the country.

He owes Americans a massive mea culpa for his propaganda efforts, all of which poisoned minds and hearts.

For profit.

[inwiththenew]

31. The United States is an open air insane asylum

with insufficient mental health resources.

[Initech]

33. Well he's not wrong!

We are completely fucked up as a country, and Trump and Fox News are primarily responsible.

[geardaddy]

34. Fuck Luntz

and the Karl Rove he rode in on.

[Marcuse]

35. A Trumpery lawyer bears false (presumably) witness against Luntz. He can't get work in the US.

[chia]

38. I looked for the list of "contrasting words." Here it is, from 1995:

Contrasting Words

Often we search hard for words to help us define our opponents. Sometimes we are hesitant to use contrast. Remember that creating a difference helps you. These are powerful words that can create a clear and easily understood contrast. Apply these to the opponent, their record, proposals and their party.

decay… failure (fail)… collapse(ing)… deeper… crisis… urgent(cy)… destructive… destroy… sick… pathetic… lie… liberal… they/them… unionized bureaucracy… “compassion” is not enough… betray… consequences… limit(s)… shallow… traitors… sensationalists…

endanger… coercion… hypocrisy… radical… threaten… devour… waste… corruption… incompetent… permissive attitudes… destructive… impose… self-serving… greed… ideological… insecure… anti-(issue): flag, family, child, jobs… pessimistic… excuses… intolerant…

stagnation… welfare… corrupt… selfish… insensitive… status quo… mandate(s)… taxes… spend(ing)… shame… disgrace… punish (poor…)… bizarre… cynicism… cheat… steal… abuse of power… machine… bosses… obsolete… criminal rights… red tape… patronage

https://fair.org/home/language-a-key-mechanism-of-control/

[Hekate]

39. Frank Luntz & Newt Gingrich brought this on. Isn't this what they wanted?

Yeah, “Language: A Key Mechanism of Control,” was indeed cynical and evil.

[Grins]

41. Imagine if a Democrat had done this...

Hannity, Carlson, Ingraham, all of soon-to-be-history OANN, would shit cinder blocks.

[Slammer]

43. Hannity

Obviously you've never heard Hannity talk about Rules for Radicals.

[krkaufman]

42. classic takedown of Luntz

Samantha Bee "Hall of Same" Daily Show segment from April 2005

https://www.cc.com/video/rkzsml/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-bee-hall-of-same

[mahina]

44. It wasn't us vilifying them. It was straight one-way Mr. Luntz.

I did appreciate it when he came on our Franken show and talked about how crazy it was to be anti-vaccine and now he kicked students out of his class who wouldn’t take the shot or he wouldn’t talk to them at least.

[TigressDem]

49. You KNOW it's BAD when the guy who invented it is trying to distance himself from it. nt