Infrastructure Bill gives PA $1.6B to repair bridges. Total repair costs: $18.5B

[wellst0nev0ter]

Of the 23,166 bridges in the Commonwealth, 3,198, or 13.8 percent, are classified as structurally deficient. This means one of the key elements is in poor or worse condition.

...

The state has identified needed repairs on 12,112 bridges at an estimated cost of $18.5 billion.

https://artbabridgereport.org/state/profile/PA

[sheshe2]

1. Sad so many voted against said bill.

I think it was 200 GOP and 6 Dems. Go figure.

[wellst0nev0ter]

3. See my previous threads on this exact topic

The Squad rightly recognized that the BIF was only going to be passed alone, leaving much more money on the table

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100216135424

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100216152195

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216160419

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100216269105

[sheshe2]

4. Sorry, no time to read your four threads.

We have a northeaster coming in tonight and burying my mom on Monday.

I know all the reasons why they did what they did. Hm, two from NY and one from MA. This storm can rec havoc in both states. It is massive with hurricane force winds, flooding and a possible 24" of snow. Hope we can survive it...Fugg infrastructure.

[wellst0nev0ter]

5. Threads are right there if you ever change your mind

The biggest threat to real infrastructure reform is thinking that "less is more."

[sheshe2]

8. I know where they are.

Something is better than nothing.

Thank you for you kind response to my mothers death, it was appreciated...oh wait. Never mind.

[wellst0nev0ter]

19. Had to bury my father last year

So believe me, I sympathize.

[sheshe2]

32. TY.

[wellst0nev0ter]

37. And I thank you for your condolences

[sheshe2]

52. I don't need your snark.

It is really not necessary. I forgot to give you my condolences because I am still in shock with my mom dying in my arms on Thursday evening.

In my arms, after 4 years of 24/7 home care. That means a baby monitor by your pillow and a cell phone in your hand for 4 years. My sister and I shared this responsibility and it was very difficult. It is going to take a lot to resume a regular life again. I feel lost and confused right now in the midst of a nor'easter and trying to bury my mom on Monday.

You have my heartfelt sorrow on the loss of your dad.

[wellst0nev0ter]

75. You did nothing wrong

You may say you forgot to give your condolences, but I know that in your heart your thoughts have always been with me.

The pain never goes away, and it was a sudden death from this politicized disease called Covid. I will admit that I am still uncomfortable talking about death because it puts me in a bad place.

If my comments caused you hurt in any way, I apologize.

[herding cats]

71. You do realize all of us here can see this, right?

This was neither the time, nor place for such a comment.

[betsuni]

15. "Less is more" is a choice of less being better than more. The Biden administration didn't

choose less, of course.

[George II]

60. Three points:

1. It's not "less" - less than what?
2. Is anything > 0 better than 0?
3. If the answer to 2 is "no", how much is "anything"?

[spanone]

6. So sorry to hear about your mom, sheshe2

♥️

Stay safe & warm in the storm...

[sheshe2]

9. Hey you, lots of shoveling ahead.

TY

[Docreed2003]

11. So sorry to hear about your mother's passing sheshe

[sheshe2]

12. Thank you, Doc.

Appreciated.

[Celerity]

22. very sorry to hear about your mum passing, sheshe, all my condolences to you and your family

[sheshe2]

33. Thank you, Celerity.

[Chili]

31. oh Sheshe, I'm so sorry about your Mom

I just read your other post on the "stawm" thread, & I was thinking, maybe you guys can put off your family gathering until next weekend, when the weather calms down, but no... you can't put this off.

Love & peace to you & your family, & please stay safe.

[sheshe2]

34. Thank you, Chili.

[mcar]

49. I'll be thinking of you on Monday, she

Stay safe.

[herding cats]

68. I'm so deeply sorry for your loss, she!

I'm not here a lot anymore and I didn't know until just now. My whole heart to you and your family tonight and in the coming days. ❤️ ❤️

Please, feel free to reach out if there's anything I can do for you. I'll ne checking in if you need to talk.

Be safe in this storm! Again, my heart is heavy for you.

[sheshe2]

69. You and yours have been through so much. {hugs}

Love you and thank you.

You are one of the best on DU. All of you have been so kind to me.

[herding cats]

70. I can say the same of you, she. ❤️

Just remember to take care of yourself, ok?

You're so used to doing all the giving, I know it'll be difficult, but right now try and remember to take some recharge time when you find a moment.

You'll be in my thoughts daily.

[sheshe2]

72. You are so sweet.

You know. Take care of you as well.

[George II]

23. What did voting against it accomplish?

[orleans]

2. they're getting 1.6 & they need 18.5

well, every billion helps

looks like pa. is gonna need to pony up the rest of the billions

[sheshe2]

7. Not looking it up...

Yet I wonder who voted for and against it. Biden asked for so much more.

[orleans]

20. i just saw the post upthread about your mom...

i'm so very sorry for your loss. my heart goes out to you.

[sheshe2]

36. Ah, thank you orleans.

So kind of you.

[George II]

24. That's exactly right. It was never the intention that BIF would pay 100% of the costs.

[EleanorR]

10. blame the republicans

Link to tweet

[sheshe2]

13. Exactly.

WE could have had so much more. Yet we got something which is far better than nothing and we had no GOP support and lost 6 Dem votes.

I don't get it.

[betsuni]

16. Well, blaming Republicans because they are to blame is clearly not going to happen.

Republicans are innocent bystanders as the bad corrupt mean "less is more" Democrats destroy the country.



Don't know why we have to keep seeing this on DU.

[Klaralven]

14. The $1,200 billion BIF included $110 billion for roads, bridges and other major projects

The $1,750 billion BBB had no additional money for these purposes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Build_Back_Better_Plan

[bigtree]

17. that $1.6b is not the entire funding amount Pa. is getting from the federal government

...

PENNSYLVANIA — About 15,000 bridges in poor condition, including 3,353 in Pennsylvania, are targeted for repair and improvement under a five-year, $27 billion program announced Friday by the U.S. Department of Transportation.

The administration is releasing nearly $5.5 billion to states, Puerto Rico, the District of Columbia and tribes this fiscal year to fund the program, which the administration said is "the single largest dedicated bridge investment" since the interstate highway system was authorized in the 1950s.

Pennsylvania will receive a total of $327.2 million in the current fiscal year and $4 billion over five years, including $1.6 billion through the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law.

Nancy Singer, a spokeswoman from the Federal Highway Commission, told Patch the $27 billion is authorized under the dedicated Bridge Formula Program to replace or repair highway bridges. It is not the only pot of money available to states to fix bridges.

States receive the money according to a needs-based formula, and state transportation departments will decide how the money is used, whether for major highway bridges that are part of the federal highway system or bridges under local jurisdictions, Singer said.

https://patch.com/pennsylvania/norristown/pa-get-4-billion-finally-repair-bridges

...Pa.'s plan is to pay for the rest through tolling and other state revenue measures.

[WHITT]

18. It Will Become Clearer Over Time

how much of the BIF will come up short in numerous areas, because it is so jam-packed with Corporate Welfare.

Separately, the reason the state Repubs voted against their state infrastructure bill, is because they think any work should be done by the private sector, which gives them political contributions, and then the bridge be tolled, so those that use it pay for it. I doubt most will publicly admit that now.

[Celerity]

21. worst in the nation in terms of % of structurally deficient bridges.. good old West Virginia - 20.4%

[George II]

29. Percentages are misleading. According to each state's DOT, there are 25,400 bridges....

....in Pennsylvania and only 6,636 in West Virginia.

So even though the percentage is higher, Pennsylvania has more than 2.5X as many deficient bridges as West Virginia - 3505 in Pennsylvania and 1353 in West Virginia.

I don't know why you have that picture of Senator Manchin, he voted for the infrastructure bill, as did the other 49 Senators in the Democratic caucus.

Perhaps a light should be shined on those who voted against the bill, in BOTH Houses.

[wellst0nev0ter]

35. So West Virginia's excuse is "At least we're not PA"

But at least the infrastructure bill gives WV half a billion dollars to fix the $3.3B worth of needed bridge repairs. That's better than the 10th of a loaf PA is getting, right?

[George II]

44. How did you arrive at that conclusion? Read my post again to see what my point was. Thanks!

[Celerity]

50. sophistry, pure and simple

If a smaller number in absolute terms, then far less to fix, so even less of an excuse for WV.

Perhaps a light should be shined on those who voted against the bill, in BOTH Houses.

Number one, we do not have two Houses, we have a Senate and a House of Representatives, and the ONLY Democratic caucus members of either chamber who actually BLOCKED huge swathes of Biden's agenda at the end of the day were Manchin and Sinema. Those two also gutted the hell out of Biden's original BIF new spend, slashing it down from $2.8 trillion to only $550 billion.

Together, Manchin and Sinema have axed (so far) over 90% of Biden's original new spending proposals for the 2 infrastructure bills, taking it from $6.1 trillion in toto in new spend down to only $550 billion, plus they have also blocked all the new voter right/protections bills so far.

[George II]

56. The U.S. Capitol Visitor Center begs to differ:

Congress is divided into two institutions: the House of Representatives and the Senate. The two houses of Congress have equal but unique roles in the federal government. While they share legislative responsibilities, each house also has special constitutional duties and powers.

https://www.visitthecapitol.gov/about-congress/two-bodies-one-branch#:~:text=Congress%20is%20divided%20into%20two,roles%20in%20the%20federal%20government.

Now about your "sophistry", a "smaller number" belies the argument of percentages, which can be misleading as I pointed out. Let's say a state has only two bridges (facetious, but demonstrative of my point) and one is deficient. That would mean that FIFTY PERCENT of the bridges are deficient. Wow, 2.5X the % of West Virginia!

The fact is that there are 3500 bridges requiring repairs in Pennsylvania and only 1350 in West Virginia. On top of that, there's no definition of the extent of repairs required OR the size of the bridges in question. In Pennsylvania it could be that most of the bridges needing repairs are large and in West Virginia they're small. Without delving into the deep details, which I'm not going to do, we don't know.

As an illustration, here are two bridges. If both have serious structural issues, guess which one would cost more to repair (a LOT more)?

[Celerity]

58. they are usually referred to as the 2 chambers/parts of Congress, and your capitalising Houses

is what threw me off. That is a minor quibble, and I shall drop that part.

That said, you are now, ex post facto, adding in 'what ifs' (including an absurdist example of a State only having 2 bridges) to try and negate/minimise a simple fact stated (WV has the highest of all 50 states in terms of the percentage of its bridges in need of repair).

[George II]

59. Okay, let's go back to the percentages (I've learned to not rely on them over the years, but....)...

Using those numbers, West Virginia has only 3.1% more structurally deficient bridges than the second state, and only 6.6% more than Pennsylvania.

See how percentages can be used to maximize or minimize the actual difference?

Now, you may consider my "what ifs" ex post facto (which they're not), but I consider them "why nots", or ex-anti facto - why aren't ALL factors considered in the evaluations and comparisons of each of the 50 states when conclusions are drawn? The so-called ex post facto aspects of the discussion should have been included in the first place.

[lapucelle]

64. That excerpt is a direct quote from the US Capitol Visitor Center at www.visitthecapitol.gov

Any quibble concerning the characterizations in the "Two Bodies, One Branch" section of the official website is best brought to the attention of the web content administrators.


=========================================================================



=========================================================================

https://www.visitthecapitol.gov/about-congress/two-bodies-one-branch#:~:text=Congress%20is%20divided%20into%20two,roles%20in%20the%20federal%20government.

[Celerity]

65. Go for three replies (after finishing the doubles on each one) on each of my posts. I have faith

you can get there if you truly flex.

[lapucelle]

67. Flex? What happened to "pettifogging"?

[Celerity]

74. One has nothing to do with other. Glad to see I am living rent free in your head though. Stockholm's

fairly pricey these days.

[lapucelle]

77. To recap...

- Both senators from West Virginia voted for President Biden's infrastructure bill.

- Democrats don't cry when Democrats win.

- No primary challenger has filed in NY-14.

- It is NY-16 with 100 structurally deficient bridges, not NY-14 where there are "only" 63 structurally deficient bridges.

- Any quibbles with descriptive characterizations on .gov websites should be addressed to the web content administrators rather than blamed on someone simply quoting the information.

:

[lapucelle]

43. Joe Manchin voted for the infrastructure bill as did West Virginia senator Shelley Capito.

West Virginia Rep. David McKinley was one of the thirteen Republicans in the House who voted for BIF.

The other two representatives from WV were among the 200 Republicans and 6 Democrats in the House who voted against President Biden's bill.

[Celerity]

51. that reframe/excuse/deflection dog doesn't hunt

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216297908#post50

[lapucelle]

54. The majority of the WV national delegation voted for BIF, including its only Democratic member

and two Republicans. Facts are facts.

As for any "reframing dog that will not hunt" (?), I'm sure some could argue that a screenshot of random information above a giant photo of a Democratic senator does not comprise a particularly cogent frame to begin with.

[Celerity]

55. it wasn't random, it was from the OP's link

That one Democrat (Manchin) helped the gut the hell out of the BIF, has blocked the entire BBB so far, and has blocked all the voter bills so far, along with other actual, substantive obstructionist, Sinema.

Facts are facts.

yes they are

[lapucelle]

61. I'm sure that the voters of West Virginia are aware of exactly who voted for President Biden's bill

and exactly who voted against the President's infrastructure package.

I know that we New Yorkers are aware of who stood with President Biden and who stood against President Biden and voted against infrastructure funding for their states and districts.

Pity a link wasn't included with the screen grab. That website is full of fascinating information.




=====================================================================


=====================================================================

https://artbabridgereport.org/congressional/district/NY/14

[lapucelle]

62. Imagine a congressman having 100 structurally deficicient bridges in his DISTRICT voting against

a trillion dollar infrastructure package.

=======================================================================


=======================================================================

https://artbabridgereport.org/congressional/district/NY/16

[Celerity]

63. Imagine the tears that will be shed by some on here when she cruises to re-election in 2022, same as

2020.

Her symbolic protest votes have blocked and gutted nothing from passing. Sinema and Manchin have actually blocked and gutted incredible amounts of Biden's and the rest of our Party's agenda.

[lapucelle]

66. Wait...what? Do you think that some "on here" (I have a quibble with that locution)

cry when Democrats win?

Some may cringe a bit if it takes the opposition to step up and ensure the passage of a Democratic president's bill in the face of "symbolic protest votes" or shake their heads and roll their eyes when "votes of conscience" inexplicably evaporate into votes of "present", but I'm pretty sure no one "on here" cries when Democrats win.

[Celerity]

73. The primary.

Go look at the assortment of potential 'bright shiny things to slay the AOC beast with' here pushed on here.

Just for starters:

1. A ghost candidate that never did any more than file to run, yet was touted by a few as a sure thing. Jose Velazquez (dropped out)

2. A radical anti-LBTQ nut job who was gaining support from certain people until I pointed out he was a member of an actual hate group and who openly supported the Ugandan government's anti gay pogroms. Fernando Cabrera (dropped out)

3. A Republican in Dem clothing, backed by the RW US Chamber of Congress, who was living for 9 years in a multi million dollar Trump flat ($15K a month rental, in the Trump International Hotel and Tower at Columbus Circle, where multiple 2 or 3 bdrm flats costs over 7, 8, 10 million usd) then moved into the district, in Sunnyside, Queens, in late 2019 to run), and who had a few years before (2016) switched parties from R to D, and who was still hawking, less than a year before she entered the race, her RW book that advocates for the privatisation of Social Security and Medicare, and for the closing down of the Department of Education, etc. Michelle Caruso-Cabrera (18.2% in the primary, ran as a sore loser on the neoconservative, centre right Serve America Movement ticket, got 0.9% in the general).

[lapucelle]

76. I'm not aware of any Democratic primary challengers in NY-14 in this year's election. N/T

[aocommunalpunch]

25. LMAO

What’s gonna get us? A falling bridge? Crazy storms? Motherfuckers with guns? What a shithole.

[tavernier]

26. Covid? Sinkholes? Flooding?

High fructose corn syrup in every food?
For me it’s probably the last.

[aocommunalpunch]

30. I've starting reading ingredients to stay away from it, as possible.

The United States of Cognitive Dissonance, that's us.

[Demovictory9]

27. 23k bridges in that little state?

[Tickle]

39. I guess it is

ones definition of a bridge that determines how many bridges you have 🤷‍♀️🤷🤷‍♂️

[MissMillie]

28. I've been saying since the beginning that the bill wasn't big enough

and neither is BBB.

I know it's important to get what we can. I'm just wondering which of the projects will be neglected by not spending enough, and who is affected most by the lack of funding.

[Tickle]

38. Let's do bbb in pieces

If the rest of the bridge money is in the BBB why not take that out and pass it? Repubs up for re-elections would have to sign on to it.

[wellst0nev0ter]

40. Remember, we really only have one shot at reconciliation per fiscal year

There is no splitting the BBB in pieces.

[Tickle]

41. That's my point

Repubs who are up for election would have to vote for it. They would get destroyed in November if they didn’t allow all bridges to be financed

[wellst0nev0ter]

42. Most republicans voted against the BIF without repercussions

It's not going to change this year.

[lapucelle]

47. The infrastructure bill already passed and has been enacted.

19 Republicans in the Senate joined 48 Democrats and 2 Independents and voted for President Biden's infrastructure bill.

31 Republican in the Senate voted against.

13 Republicans joined with 215 Democrats in the House and voted for President Biden's bill.

200 Republicans and 6 Democrats in the House voted against President Biden's bill in the House.

[George II]

45. The rest of bridge money isn't in BBB. In fact very little, if any infrastructure money is in BBB.

[Ron Green]

46. The car- and truck-based transportation system ought to be

questioned, carefully examined, and shrunk to the size absolutely necessary for a more sustainable future.

No new roads!

[mcar]

48. Oh, are we back to the "nothing is better than something" DU phase?

[iemanja]

53. Then the state of PA better allocate some taxes to pay for them

Everything isn't up to the federal government. States have responsibilities too.

[Nevilledog]

57. Guess they should have thought about it before they pulled infrastructure money to pay cops

Link to tweet

https://whyy.org/articles/pa-fuel-tax-meant-for-bridge-repair-went-to-state-police-instead/


In theory, Pennsylvania could be spending billions more to update aging roads and bridges.
But instead, the money is being rerouted to help fund State Police operations. The convoluted funding scheme has long been criticized by Harrisburg. But a new audit has given a more detailed picture of where the money is going.

Pennsylvania has almost 3,000 bridges classified as structurally deficient, though state Auditor General Eugene DePasquale said Thursday that tally has actually been halved since 2008.

Over six years, $4.2 billion that could have helped fix those bridges has instead gone to State Police, he said.

The money mostly comes from the commonwealth’s fuel tax; at 57.6 cents, it’s the highest in the nation.

“There’s an inherent deal,” DePasquale said. “You’re going to have this high gas tax, but it’s going to go to fund roads and bridges. And now when they find out it’s not happening, I think that gets people upset.”

*snip*