This should be a bigger news story.

[fightforfreedom]

It was lawyers who were the driving force behind the coup.

It was lawyers who committed crimes for Trump.

It was lawyers who filed over 60 fake law suits. All thrown out because they had no evidence the election was stolen. How in the hell do they still have their law license's?

It was lawyers appearing on the news everyday spreading the Big Lie.

It was lawyers who told the fake electors what they were doing was fine, perfectly legal.

A lawyer was sitting next to Trump win he made his infamous Georgia phone call.

It was lawyers who came up with the idea of fake electors.

It was lawyers who told Trump and many other people Pence could over turn the election.

I don't know the people who are in charge of oversight for lawyers. Whoever they are they should be fired.

I would like to see Maddow do a show about the all lawyers who tried to over throw our government. They were Trumps army, not the people who stormed the capital

Nixon had a few lawyers who were corrupt. Trump had a army of lawyers who tried to end our democracy.

[hlthe2b]

1. Also lawyers who are fighting back and investigating/prosecuting these a'holes

Just sayin... before we smear an entire profession. Likewise, it is lawyers and state legal boards/bars who have suspended the licenses and initiated disbarment for Giuliani and a few others (thus far).

[fightforfreedom]

5. I did not say all lawyers were behind the coup.

It is a fact Trump had a lot of lawyers committing crimes for him, Lying for him, giving him illegal advise.

[hlthe2b]

10. Your eleven point (accurate, but one-sided) excoriation of attorneys without a single comment

about those fighting back would suggest otherwise. I have the same issue with those who excoriate all physicians, epidemiologists, virologists, immunologists, infectious disease specialists because of the minority MD a'holes that grift and appear on RW media playing the "contrarian" or pushing BS COVID "cures."

Oh, btw, I'm one that has reported abuses to medical boards in my own state (and some other states) and I have joined with attorneys doing so over COVID misrepresentation for attorneys with their own boards. I know many attorneys doing so with respect to those lawyers about whom you speak. So, if you won't acknowledge their efforts, I will.

[Maraya1969]

17. I didn't read that into the OP at all. What I read is the TFG's lawyers are not being held

accountable.

[Ferrets are Cool]

20. This

[secondwind]

36. This is how I read this also....... and it's fine the way it is.

[onecaliberal]

55. That.

[orangecrush]

62. The other thing.

[Myrddin]

69. Absolutely! n/t

[NurseJackie]

50. We don't always agree... but on this we do.

You described perfectly how it presented itself to me as well.

[Trueblue Texan]

30. Thank you! nt

[Sanity Claws]

2. Some of us have noticed

Complaints have been filed with state bars. Giuliani's license is suspended in NY and DC. It won't be revoked until after a disciplinary hearing.
A judge has referred Powell to the TX state bar for disciplinary purposes.
I'm sure there are others too.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

6. Interesting thanks! Wow even disciplinary hearings take a long time

Seems like it's been a long time since Rudy lost his license.

[NanceGreggs]

3. Yeah, it was all about the lawyers.

No one else was involved.

[KS Toronado]

16. Not even FailedCoupGuy

[agingdem]

22. No one else except maybe

Trump and his reptilian spawn (Ivanka, Don Jr, Eric), Trump’s inner circle (Navarro, Flynn, Lindell, et al.), the Proud Boys, QANON, Julie Fancelli, Hawley, Cruz, Gosar, Jordan et al, thousands of rioters…and the list goes on…

[no_hypocrisy]

4. Lawyers created the constitutional republic of the United States of America.

It is equally conceivable that lawyers can dismantle it using similar tactics, through the Legislature, the Executive Branch, and the Judiciary.

[dameatball]

7. My son is a lawyer, but he has been trying to remodel his house for the past year so I don't

think he has time to overthrow the election. I'll keep an eye on him though. You know anything about tile work?

[Wicked Blue]

8. Shakespeare said it:

“The first thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyers.”

Henry VI, Part 2

[intheflow]

29. Beat me to it! n/t

[jaxexpat]

31. That quote is usually referenced out of context, this, an example.

In the play's script, it was a conversation between two villains plotting to overthrow a government. The idea being that without lawyers, the "laws of the land" would be unrepresented, leaving the community vulnerable.

Lawyers are like anybody else. Some are good and others corrupt. The US has a peculiar attitude about lawyers in that so many of us think their purpose is to prevent one from being punished for wrongdoing or to facilitate fraud. The attorney/client privilege thing is, in my mind, a portal through which crime is, perhaps often, facilitated. Certainly, a debatable concept.

It all seems to come down to the definitions of truth, absolute truth and our trust in truth, always an entertaining subject and the center of our fascination with politics. How could people, informed by identical experience and witnessing identical phenomenon, draw totally different conclusions about what they'd witnessed? Surely, it's not just as simple as "believing your lying eyes". Right?

[JudyM]

44. This right here.

We can impact justice by contributing to and/or volunteering for organizations that support it. These organizations all have legal teams that are trying their damndest to right the wrongs.

[rsdsharp]

60. "The attorney/client privilege thing" is subject to the crime/fraud exception.

It doesn’t apply if the attorney is involved in perpetrating a crime or fraud with the client.

[jaxexpat]

77. A wide grey-ish line.

[Baitball Blogger]

9. Absolutely. Same thing with the debacle in my local Florida community.

It was lawyers who created the greatest obstacles to clean up the situation properly, in a timely manner. One lawyer after the other made it worse. It's what they do. That's the "freedum" that De Santis is pushing in Florida. A state where the recklessness of a white community is protected by the lawyers who are also benefiting from the chaos.

[Oppaloopa]

54. I know I live in Florida too

[snowybirdie]

11. Methinks someone

might be having a problem with lawyers. Who do you think has been fighting the corrupt PEOPLE who side with rtump? Generalization once again negates any argument a person may have. Very lazy logic.

[Dustlawyer]

18. Thank you!

[fightforfreedom]

24. I only have a problem with lawyers who try to overthrow our government.

Methinks you should read my post again. It's pretty clear I am talking about certain lawyers.

[Aviation91]

12. Right!!

[calimary]

70. Welcome to DU, Aviation91!

Gotta say, I've never seen the legal and historic and political boundaries under siege like they are these days. For years I've disliked Republicans as far as what they've stood for and how they seem to be hellbent on pushing against everything I believe in. But I've never seen that party hellbent on being a Constitutional wrecking crew. It's almost as if they've heard the mob shouting "burn it all down!" and their response is - "COOL! Where ya wanna start?"

[empedocles]

75. Years back, law firms were allowed to employ lobbyists directly.

[randr]

13. Where the fuck is the American Bar Association?

[JohnSJ]

15. That is my question. At a minimum there should be disbarments

[madville]

35. That's up to the individual State Bars, not the ABA

The ABA is just an association, the actual regulation of licenses and disciplinary actions are conducted by the State Bars.

[randr]

53. Where the fuck are the State Bars?

[dchill]

68. If you're lucky, just inside the state line!

[madville]

33. What would they do?

The ABA doesn’t regulate licenses to practice law or conduct disbarments. That falls on the individual state bars that have the authority to regulate licenses and take disciplinary actions.

[Mr. Ected]

14. Eh, yes and no

Trump isn't a details guy. He demanded a result and left it to his lackies to make it happen. Many of those lackies are lawyers. They too will have their day of reckoning.

But lawyers weren't the driving force behind the coup. Trump was, Trump is, and everyone else had their own agenda. Power and greed.

[fightforfreedom]

26. This is why I would like Maddow to do a show about the lawyers involved in the coup.

Maddow and her staff could put together a list of all the lawyers who were involved one way or another in the coup attempt, the Big Lie. I believe the list would number in the dozens, perhaps scores.

Lawyers in the Whitehouse, outside the Whitehouse, lawyers in organizations like the amistad project. It's incredible, I believe it would shock the American people.

[lostnfound]

57. You're on to something, maybe. They have reputations and careers to protect

[Captain Zero]

19. FEDERALIST SOCIETY

They have more.

[summer_in_TX]

63. If Maddow does such a show, I hope every tie to the Federalist Society

is exposed. That group seems to me to have a corrupt intent behind its founding.

[Joinfortmill]

21. You are so right - And then there were the millionaires funding it all.

[Samrob]

23. I reuse to blame ALL lawyers but I do condemn those who actively pursued breaking the law in

support of Trump. Those who wrote plans to engage in unlawful obstruction of counting votes, or instructions for overturning the election and any other unlawful activity related to the Trump administration. Those lawyers should be disbarred for life. Their activities were not merely working for crime bosses and advising them on a defense strategy for winning legal cases against them. These were lawyers and some judges and some governors actively engaged in overthrowing an election. None should ever be able to hold public office or receive any benefits from the government they tried to overthrow.

[ShazzieB]

59. I condemn anyone and everyone who actively pursues breaking the law in support of Trump.

Don't care if they were lawyers, doctors, house painters, or grocery store clerks. Certain behavior is deserving of condemnation no matter who is doing the behavior.

[malaise]

25. Every one of them must be disbarred

for starters.
That is all.

[The Jungle 1]

27. I never thought about it this way.

I always think of lawyers just doing what they are told. You are saying trump was being led.
I would like to hear more also.

[ancianita]

28. Since Trump's ascendance, this has been lawyer wars. His side is losing.

Koch's use of law to advance fascist minority rule and racial capitalism -- along with the corporate legal side that has fought across generations to establish its equal protection standing under the Constitution -- the corporate lawyer side has come out of the Koch network stealth zone; their PR machine has supported Trump.

Finally seen by lawyers who practice Rule of LAW, they are losing ground.
Except for their capture of SCOTUS.

Sheldon Whitehouse wouldn't mind listing all the amicae writers from the Federalist Society and other orgs.
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/amy-coney-barrett-rose-corporations-crusade-power-over-supreme-court-ncna1243251

Do we see headlines id'ing the lawyers are for the Oath Keeper guy and the other ten indicted with him? No.
Do we know who Meadows' lawyer is? No.
Do we even know who Trump's lawyer is? No.

You'll never see any of this revealed in corporate media, which is pretty much all of US media.
While you'll see headlines on Eastman or Cohen, the general list of legal advisers of fascist insurgents will never be in news headlines. Because it's usually understood that all parties of lawyers wars are entitled to legal representation.

The US Constitution was written for humans, not fictional personhoods.

This lawyer war has always been Corporate v The People of the United States.

[jaxexpat]

38. "This lawyer war has always been Corporate v The People of the United States." Interesting.

Then they have already won a great victory that has the "supremacy of the rights of individual citizens" on its heels. Perhaps even, an extinct concept, a "dead idea walking" just enough to keep the rabble's hopes up. Such exquisite cynicism.

[ancianita]

41. Yes, they have. Because citizens were misled into thinking THEY were the reason for the U.S.

Because, as writer/researchers like Ibram Kendi, Thom Hartmann and Congressman Sheldon Whitehouse now tell us, US settlers were not supposed to know that the American project was really a corporate project of European monarchs, given that
-- the U.S. Constitution was written to define human personhood for whites, 3/5 personhood for Blacks, and no equality under the law for anyone not white and male;
-- slave trade was the commodification of black bodies to build agricultural dominance worldwide.
-- eleven of the first twelve presidents were enslavers
-- public education was never written into the US Constitution as a fundamental right.

And so, institutionally and by design, "American" settlers were not to know their real standing until after the Civil War and WWI. They were sold on "this land is my land" blah blah, along with all the patriotic culture of fighting for some "crisis" when it was in the corporate interests for them to do so.

Blacks just got equality since 1965, and US women -- 52% of the entire US population, no less -- have yet to even get the ERA passed!

The fact that the GOP doesn't care about democracy has long standing roots. If we think hard about our corporate history, the bought GOP's lack of commitment to democracy is really not unsurprising. We've called them a wholly owned subsidiary of Big Corp for good reason. They'll even rewrite the Constitution in an Article V convention so they can finally win the corporate government that's been bought, bit by bit, for our entire lives. Yet we keep up the shock and outrage.

But we need to remember our side's claim: There will still be HUMAN consent of the HUMANS governed.

Our lawyer wars are as important as the Fascist war of Spain. Its outcome will change the West.

[Geechie]

51. Thank you!

That’s some heady stuff to think about. I like your signature line, btw.

[ancianita]

79. ...

Thanks, Geechie!

[jaxexpat]

76. I've read your post several times and have this:

Perhaps the essence of the "New World" (US), project was to allow an environment wherein various known "styles" of socialization were encouraged and given rein to expand as European economic markets allowed/dictated. I'm sure some thinkers in that age considered the long view of those potentials but I'm not certain their conclusions were considered or rubber-stamped by any of the political powers in that European era. Great trading corporations of the day, financiers of the "project", were a relatively risk-free means toward prosperity for the monarchial class but they were not their creation or innovation except, perhaps, incidentally. I expect those royal PTB's thoughts on the matter, even in an "age of enlightenment", were more preoccupied with their own contemporary reactions and aspirations regarding the challenges of survival and maintenance of the trappings of power, luxury. Further, that the existence of those social forces we term "conservative" was the natural, if you will, emergence of the contemporarily successful, acting out on maintaining their own predominance. (It's not by coincidence that the "grandfather" of the world's stock exchanges squats in "new Amsterdam", a second home of the tulip market. It's more like a coincidence of nature, in a fit of schadenfreude, smirking at its little joke on humanity's limited scope of relevance and reverence.) The "if it works don't fix it" POV and ethic, enshrined in manufactured anecdotes and convenient folklore, is the antecedent and backstop of today's "Republican"-ism. It's not a fertile set from which to draw innovation and initiative toward the improvement or enhancement of anything with no readily salable value. And that is where I am brought to be in great agreement with your statement, "The fact that the GOP doesn't care about democracy has long standing roots." Indeed, they have no care or consideration at all for it, finding only threat and menace in the inherent liberality of democracy in any of its forms. Weeds in their garden, so to speak. Roundup is, after all, held as a US patent.

[ancianita]

78. Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I can raise the issue of our sources, but will leave it.

You get the general drift of history here but not the origins of corporations, and my emphasis of how their stealth power had threatened our democracy even before the GOP became their wholly owned subsidiary.

I do want to say that corporations did, in fact, originate with European monarchs, from the House of Orange (Dutch East India Company) to the House of Stuart (The Virginia Company of London, & the Royal African Company) in London, the latter being the largest slaving corporation on the planet until 1861, which bought and sold black bodies as commodities in their international trade in the Americas.

Jamestown and Plymouth were corporate projects. By design, humans who settled here over the last two centuries were not supposed to know that, and were allowed their own reasons for "freedom." Instead, they and we have always gotten a grand story of ownership, when on the land we "bought," we've only just been tenants (joint or in common) on.

Well run democracies REGULATE fictional personhoods, and hold them accountable for harm, loss or damage to humans through charter death, if necessary. The U.S. doesn't do that, and corporations are, right now, pulling out all the campaign candidates and messaging stops (any divisive issues will do, from immigration to abortion & ERA, to masks and gerrymandering to shoot for minority rule) to make sure we are distracted enough and fearful enough so that regulation does not happen to them.

[czarjak]

52. Pro bono too?

[spanone]

32. trump was the driving force behind the coup.

[Midnight Writer]

34. Lawyers, doctors, politicians, LEOs, largely police themselves. Lack of consequences is a problem.

As we have seen with police, they are loath to turn on each other. It gets ludicrous, as when a doctor goes on TV and declares that demons are the cause of disease, and that same doctor continues practicing. We see judges with outrageous conflicts of interest, but they decide for themselves if they will recuse, with no repercussions either way.

Not all doctors, lawyers, politicians, and police are "bad", of course. But self-regulation is a weak solution for those that are.

[Jarqui]

37. Last I checked, these lawyers were not likely working on this pro bono

A bunch of folks bankrolled this.

As well, how could it proceed without the assurance that the GOP would go along with it.
They had to have substantial assurance Trump wouldn't get impeached for example.

There was massive enabling by many for what Trump tried to pull.
Those people should be in the media's and DoJ's crosshairs.
All that is as stake is the United States being able to continue as democracy.
That's all.

[WinstonSmith4740]

39. Ever watch "Breaking Bad"?

When the character of Sol was introduced, he was referred to as a Criminal Lawyer, emphasis on "Criminal".

That's what we're dealing with here, criminals who happen to be lawyers. The real ones are going to get us out of this.

[lame54]

43. Do you want a criminal lawyer or a "criminal" lawyer?

[UT_democrat]

40. Whoa

DU do you not see what you’re doing? OP never said “all lawyers” or “only lawyers” and yet half of the replies are vehemently defending the profession as a whole. We get it, “Not ALL lawyers.”

OP clearly meant DRUMPFs LAWYERS. Stop making everything muddy.

You’re better than that.

Carry on.

[lame54]

42. From the party of NO frivolous law suits

[BobTheSubgenius]

45. Shakespeare was right.

Although there are some good ones.

[flying_wahini]

46. Yes, we need Faster responses to bad attorneys and doctors that break the law;

and all other professionals that try to bend the rules for themselves.

[garybeck]

47. True but....

All the lawyer activity you mention began with an idea that came from a non-lawyer. and you know who that is.

if the man in charge hadn't been pushing for all this none of it would have happened.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

48. Live by the Lawsuit, Die by the Lawsuit...

I hope!

[PufPuf23]

49. Lawyers are a problem in our society.

For at least a decade I have opined to folks that people who have been to law school or are the member of a bar lose permanently lose the privilege to run for and occupy public office. Concurrently, staff attorneys should be provided to each pol.

Lawyers are more a confounding presence in our society than anything positive on whole.

[ancianita]

82. Not true. Your broad swipe at lawyers sounds like a sophomoric argument against Rule of Law.

Make this argument to Marc Elias and get back to us.

[Ford_Prefect]

56. Two organizations directly responsible for these predations are the Federalist Society and

the Council for National Policy (CNP). They both serve to coordinate, groom and finance the promotion of RW conservative lawyers of the White Christian Nationalist persuasion. Both groups have written and promoted model legislation for the GOP state legislative erasure of voting access and franchise.

Both organizations represent material threats to democracy and US Federal government. Both took part in actions to assist in the attack on Congress and the ongoing insurrection including financing events and individuals directly involved.

Both organizations are involved in a criminal conspiracy to rewrite US laws and the Constitution in order to construct a Christian Nationalist State from the USA. To do so they have arranged that many of their pet lawyers and judges were appointed by W Bush and Trump to federal posts including the US Supreme Court. They have likewise promoted RW conservative Christian candidates to populate school boards and state legislatures alike.

Like the GOP as a party and an entity dangerous to the health of our nation they should be exposed for what they are and eliminated from American politics as the NAZI party was in Germany, along with the ultra-rich financiers who created them, directed their goals and financed their activities.

[FakeNoose]

58. This deserves an OP of its own

Thanks friend! I know we talk about Federalist Society and CNP occasionally on DU, but a lot of people don't realize how EVIL they really are. I hope we have moles in both orgs checking everything out and writing it all down. These groups are evil and fascist, probably treasonous as well.

[Ford_Prefect]

64. They quite literally define the terms. They are exactly the kinds of people and attitudes

the Framers were trying to keep out of government and out of American society. The First Amendment speaks to this forcibly and directly in the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause.

They falsely claim America was founded as a Christian Nation in the most RW interpretation of what we would call Neo-Fascist Dominionist Theocracy.

https://constitutioncenter.org/ic-2019/big-question/freedom-of-religion-the-establishment

These groups are evil and fascist, probably treasonous as well.

[FakeNoose]

65. Yes - Dark Money by Jane Mayer tells a lot of this story

[calimary]

61. Wonder how many lawyers TFG has run through by now?

He probably can’t count that high.

[FeelingBlue]

71. Excellent point

I think this is an important thing to draw our attention to. It’s like coming across Nazi physicians experimenting on people. All of them should face disciplinary action. The states should look into this; the feds should look into this and the ABA should definitely look into this and disbar any attorney who contributed to the degradation of our election and our government.

[Poiuyt]

72. Aren't lawyers supposed to adhere to some code of ethics?

I'm sure that most attorneys are upstanding citizens, but obviously some are corrupt.

[Liberty Belle]

73. Many of them should be disbarred.

That's the best way to dissuade other crooked lawyers from following this path in the future.

I did not interpret your post to mean all lawyers are bad, and obviously many are fighting this.

Not everyone who worked for Trump committed crimes. He was entitled to his day in court for lawful challenges, unless the cases met the standard for frivolous litigation, which has sanctions.

Disbarment and any non-criminal discipline (such as a temporary suspension from practicing law or license restrictions) are generally up to state bar associations. I am not sure if the ABA has any disciplinary power.

But for those actively involved in plotting a coup to unlawfully takeover our government such as with fake electors, seizing voting machines to destroy or tamper with voting evidence, plotting violence at the capitol, etc. should be disbarred and in some cases face criminal federal and state charges.

[Ford_Prefect]

81. Personally I prefer good old-fashioned banishment. If you cannot love it leave it alone, or you will

be invited to leave forthwith. It's a bit outré but I like my democracy messy and non-specifically religious.

[duforsure]

74. And guess who TFG will blame for his actions,

He'll just say he did everything on the advise of his lawyers. In reality he shopped around for conspiracies to use to promote his lies with , and undermine the truth with. They all should be disbarred for taking part in this. All these lawyers will get screwed by him one way or another.

[crickets]

80. Given 8958 views I doubt many have missed this topic, but

just in case: kicking a fascinating discussion that everyone should see. I love this place.