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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHere's an Unfortunate Fact: Most People Do Not Agree with You.
Whatever you believe, most other people don't agree with that. It's just the fact. Whether you have truly progressive ideals or are an arch conservative, you're part of a small minority. That is always true.
I remember the 1960s. I was fired up. I was involved in the civil rights movement as a young man in my late teens and early 20s. A few years later, I was fired up about the Vietnam War. I participated in a wide range of protests and activism. Many others were part of the same movements. It was easy to believe that we were the "wave of the future."
So, why didn't those things come to fruition? Yes, civil rights improved. Yes, the Vietnam War ended, but the problems that caused those issues did not go away. In more recent years, we're still seeing voting rights being fought. We're still seeing race-based economic inequities. We just got out of a stupid war that went on even longer than the Vietnam War.
The truth is that, while those movements I was part of were justifiable and right, most people didn't get it. Any success we had was based on shifting a majority more or less toward what we were fighting for or against. A majority, but most of that majority wasn't really committed. They just went along and things changed a little.
Since our country is ostensibly a democratic one, every movement for good or bad is simply striving to get a majority to go along with one set of ideals or another. Things swing one way and then swing back. Like a pendulum, every movement has its period and then the pendulum swings the other way.
Idealism is a wonderful thing, especially when it targets equality of opportunity and fair treatment of all. However idealists are always a small minority. At best, idealists sometimes manage to shift enough people far enough to make some progress toward the ideal. But, the vast majority of the population just doesn't care all that much. That vast majority will sometimes go along with an ideal, but can just as easily be shifted to the opposite position.
I remain a progressive person. I am, at heart, a socialist. What I am not, however, is someone who believes that the majority of people will be convinced by my arguments and become as progressive as I am. I've seen too much to expect that at this point. I've seen things swing left and right again and again, and do not expect that to change.
So, I don't insist that everyone believe as I do. I only hope that I can convince enough people to go along for a long enough time to make some progress. However, there are others who want desperately to convince a majority to go in the other direction. I cannot insist that people follow me or my ideas. They will not. All I can do is hope that enough people will go along to form a majority that will vote in progressive ways. If I demand too much, they will not. If the other side makes false promises, a majority might go along with them.
It's all a matter of balance. The social teeter-totter can move in either direction. We can work to shift the weight to our end, but that's about as much as we can expect. Further, we need to keep shifting weight to our end, or the other side will gradually shift it to their end of the teeter-totter. It's a constant battle and it's not one that can be won once and for all. The struggle never ends.
We must always work to shift people to our side. We must never expect them, however, to agree completely with us. They will not.
The Blue Flower
(5,442 posts)Throwing lives and treasure into the flames of SE Asia never was a good idea. Depriving people of their civil rights in what's supposed to be a representative democracy has obvious drawbacks politically and economically. Sometimes the blinders do fall away and others can see what you've seen all along.
True Dough
(17,304 posts)I don't agree with you.
lame54
(35,287 posts)MineralMan
(146,288 posts)History demonstrates that it's correct.
lame54
(35,287 posts)We're not allowed to disagree with this
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)That, however, will not change society. Study history.
lame54
(35,287 posts)I never your post
I was giving a smart-ass reply to the thread title
It really should never have gotten this far
Grasswire2
(13,569 posts)Doc Sportello
(7,517 posts)Perhaps you missed that. However, your irony meter is spot on.
Doc Sportello
(7,517 posts)Ahhh, think I'll disagree. Whether you accept it or not.
Elessar Zappa
(13,975 posts)progress will always come incrementally. As you say, the goal is to get the majority to move a few inches forward every once in a while.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)Jerry2144
(2,100 posts)I dont even agree with me.
Yes I do.
No I dont.
FakeNoose
(32,634 posts)... but those who oppose us - the ultra-conservatives, fascists, racists, etc. - well I don't think their scruples are so high. In fact I'm not even sure they have any at all.
We can be patient, but our patience will undo us when those who oppose won't hesitate to be evil or use force for their own selfish ends. There are different ways of being forceful, and the economic force of a paycheck can be very persuasive, perhaps even more than physical or moral force.
I do understand your point Mineral Man. And I think that your philosophy is similar to my own. However I turned 70 last year, and I'm seeing that our patience and understanding are not getting us where we need to go. I don't know how many more years I'll have left to try and turn this ship around.
texasfiddler
(1,990 posts)This is the first time in my life Im worried it will be forcibly and undemocratically held to one side. The GQP is now an autocratic party. Do unto others as you would never allow them to do unto you (GQP 7:12)
Silent3
(15,210 posts)Their idiocy may or may not have anything to do with why they disagree with you. And, of course, all of us are idiots about at least a few things.
But even starting out with a fairly low opinion of common sense and common intelligence, the years since Trump have taken my low bar for what to expect from humanity and dropped it down a few notches.
I always knew since childhood that there were nutty people out and about in the world with kooky, irrational ideas. The phrase "your crazy uncle" has been around for a long time, for good reason.
What has changed is my sense of how many crazy uncles and aunts and sisters and brothers and parents and grandparents and people you used to go to high school with are out there.
Most people can't think their way out of a fucking paper bag. Most people are bereft of solid logic and merely rely on mental shortcuts that can mimic logic well enough for most common tasks, but really don't cut the mustard in the face of an onslaught of misinfo and disinfo. Confirmation bias reigns supreme. Emotion overrules reason. Lists of informal logical fallacies become a guidebook to how most people think rather than being treated as things to avoid.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)However, that is not a good argument for getting people on your side, I'm afraid. And that is the challenge. Always.
Silent3
(15,210 posts)There are things I can help with, like donations to people and causes I support, and I've occasionally done some groundwork like canvassing.
But I'm not cut out for the mental gymnastics it takes to put on a smiling face, beam out appealing hope and optimism, and figure out a the best ways (where I don't feel like I'm lying to myself or cynically manipulating people) to win irrational people over to my side in great numbers.
Throck
(2,520 posts)What's your point?
Response to MineralMan (Original post)
traitorsgalore This message was self-deleted by its author.