Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
Tue Feb 1, 2022, 04:33 PM Feb 2022

Here's an Unfortunate Fact: Most People Do Not Agree with You.

Whatever you believe, most other people don't agree with that. It's just the fact. Whether you have truly progressive ideals or are an arch conservative, you're part of a small minority. That is always true.

I remember the 1960s. I was fired up. I was involved in the civil rights movement as a young man in my late teens and early 20s. A few years later, I was fired up about the Vietnam War. I participated in a wide range of protests and activism. Many others were part of the same movements. It was easy to believe that we were the "wave of the future."

So, why didn't those things come to fruition? Yes, civil rights improved. Yes, the Vietnam War ended, but the problems that caused those issues did not go away. In more recent years, we're still seeing voting rights being fought. We're still seeing race-based economic inequities. We just got out of a stupid war that went on even longer than the Vietnam War.

The truth is that, while those movements I was part of were justifiable and right, most people didn't get it. Any success we had was based on shifting a majority more or less toward what we were fighting for or against. A majority, but most of that majority wasn't really committed. They just went along and things changed a little.

Since our country is ostensibly a democratic one, every movement for good or bad is simply striving to get a majority to go along with one set of ideals or another. Things swing one way and then swing back. Like a pendulum, every movement has its period and then the pendulum swings the other way.

Idealism is a wonderful thing, especially when it targets equality of opportunity and fair treatment of all. However idealists are always a small minority. At best, idealists sometimes manage to shift enough people far enough to make some progress toward the ideal. But, the vast majority of the population just doesn't care all that much. That vast majority will sometimes go along with an ideal, but can just as easily be shifted to the opposite position.

I remain a progressive person. I am, at heart, a socialist. What I am not, however, is someone who believes that the majority of people will be convinced by my arguments and become as progressive as I am. I've seen too much to expect that at this point. I've seen things swing left and right again and again, and do not expect that to change.

So, I don't insist that everyone believe as I do. I only hope that I can convince enough people to go along for a long enough time to make some progress. However, there are others who want desperately to convince a majority to go in the other direction. I cannot insist that people follow me or my ideas. They will not. All I can do is hope that enough people will go along to form a majority that will vote in progressive ways. If I demand too much, they will not. If the other side makes false promises, a majority might go along with them.

It's all a matter of balance. The social teeter-totter can move in either direction. We can work to shift the weight to our end, but that's about as much as we can expect. Further, we need to keep shifting weight to our end, or the other side will gradually shift it to their end of the teeter-totter. It's a constant battle and it's not one that can be won once and for all. The struggle never ends.

We must always work to shift people to our side. We must never expect them, however, to agree completely with us. They will not.

21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Here's an Unfortunate Fact: Most People Do Not Agree with You. (Original Post) MineralMan Feb 2022 OP
And sometimes reality does have a liberal bent The Blue Flower Feb 2022 #1
I read this and thought True Dough Feb 2022 #2
I don't accept that lame54 Feb 2022 #3
It doesn't matter whether you accept it or not. MineralMan Feb 2022 #5
How ironic... lame54 Feb 2022 #7
Of course you can disagree. MineralMan Feb 2022 #8
The thing is... lame54 Feb 2022 #10
. Scrivener7 Feb 2022 #9
++ nt Grasswire2 Feb 2022 #18
Infallibility cannot be disagreed with Doc Sportello Feb 2022 #19
And your take on history is infallible? Doc Sportello Feb 2022 #21
Yes, Elessar Zappa Feb 2022 #4
Thanks. Unfortunate, but absolutely true. MineralMan Feb 2022 #6
Golly. Jerry2144 Feb 2022 #11
The difference is that you have high scruples, as do most of us on DU FakeNoose Feb 2022 #12
I have always been fascinated with the political pendulum texasfiddler Feb 2022 #13
Another unfortunate fact: most people are idiots Silent3 Feb 2022 #14
Yes. That Is Arguably True. MineralMan Feb 2022 #15
Which is one good reason I personally should never run for office Silent3 Feb 2022 #16
Been married for 30+ years. Throck Feb 2022 #17
This message was self-deleted by its author traitorsgalore Feb 2022 #20

The Blue Flower

(5,442 posts)
1. And sometimes reality does have a liberal bent
Tue Feb 1, 2022, 04:38 PM
Feb 2022

Throwing lives and treasure into the flames of SE Asia never was a good idea. Depriving people of their civil rights in what's supposed to be a representative democracy has obvious drawbacks politically and economically. Sometimes the blinders do fall away and others can see what you've seen all along.

lame54

(35,287 posts)
10. The thing is...
Tue Feb 1, 2022, 04:47 PM
Feb 2022

I never your post
I was giving a smart-ass reply to the thread title
It really should never have gotten this far

Doc Sportello

(7,517 posts)
19. Infallibility cannot be disagreed with
Tue Feb 1, 2022, 05:55 PM
Feb 2022

Perhaps you missed that. However, your irony meter is spot on.

Elessar Zappa

(13,975 posts)
4. Yes,
Tue Feb 1, 2022, 04:40 PM
Feb 2022

progress will always come incrementally. As you say, the goal is to get the majority to move a few inches forward every once in a while.

FakeNoose

(32,634 posts)
12. The difference is that you have high scruples, as do most of us on DU
Tue Feb 1, 2022, 04:54 PM
Feb 2022

... but those who oppose us - the ultra-conservatives, fascists, racists, etc. - well I don't think their scruples are so high. In fact I'm not even sure they have any at all.

We can be patient, but our patience will undo us when those who oppose won't hesitate to be evil or use force for their own selfish ends. There are different ways of being forceful, and the economic force of a paycheck can be very persuasive, perhaps even more than physical or moral force.

I do understand your point Mineral Man. And I think that your philosophy is similar to my own. However I turned 70 last year, and I'm seeing that our patience and understanding are not getting us where we need to go. I don't know how many more years I'll have left to try and turn this ship around.

texasfiddler

(1,990 posts)
13. I have always been fascinated with the political pendulum
Tue Feb 1, 2022, 04:57 PM
Feb 2022

This is the first time in my life I’m worried it will be forcibly and undemocratically held to one side. The GQP is now an autocratic party. “Do unto others as you would never allow them to do unto you” (GQP 7:12)

Silent3

(15,210 posts)
14. Another unfortunate fact: most people are idiots
Tue Feb 1, 2022, 05:03 PM
Feb 2022

Their idiocy may or may not have anything to do with why they disagree with you. And, of course, all of us are idiots about at least a few things.

But even starting out with a fairly low opinion of common sense and common intelligence, the years since Trump have taken my low bar for what to expect from humanity and dropped it down a few notches.

I always knew since childhood that there were nutty people out and about in the world with kooky, irrational ideas. The phrase "your crazy uncle" has been around for a long time, for good reason.

What has changed is my sense of how many crazy uncles and aunts and sisters and brothers and parents and grandparents and people you used to go to high school with are out there.

Most people can't think their way out of a fucking paper bag. Most people are bereft of solid logic and merely rely on mental shortcuts that can mimic logic well enough for most common tasks, but really don't cut the mustard in the face of an onslaught of misinfo and disinfo. Confirmation bias reigns supreme. Emotion overrules reason. Lists of informal logical fallacies become a guidebook to how most people think rather than being treated as things to avoid.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
15. Yes. That Is Arguably True.
Tue Feb 1, 2022, 05:05 PM
Feb 2022

However, that is not a good argument for getting people on your side, I'm afraid. And that is the challenge. Always.

Silent3

(15,210 posts)
16. Which is one good reason I personally should never run for office
Tue Feb 1, 2022, 05:13 PM
Feb 2022

There are things I can help with, like donations to people and causes I support, and I've occasionally done some groundwork like canvassing.

But I'm not cut out for the mental gymnastics it takes to put on a smiling face, beam out appealing hope and optimism, and figure out a the best ways (where I don't feel like I'm lying to myself or cynically manipulating people) to win irrational people over to my side in great numbers.

Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Here's an Unfortunate Fac...