General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsA young black doctor accused of fraud & refused service when she tried to deposit her
first paycheck from her new employer:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-black-doctor-says-she-was-refused-service-at-a-bank-because-of-her-race-i-felt-like-a-criminal/ar-AATqS3Y
With a $16,000 check in hand, Malika Mitchell-Stewart walked into a JPMorgan Chase bank near Houston in December, proud and excited to open a bank account and deposit her first check as a newly employed physician.
But her elation quickly faded when employees refused to open an account for her and accused the doctor, who is Black, of attempting to commit fraud, court documents say.
On Wednesday, Mitchell-Stewart sued JPMorgan Chase Bank, First Colony Branch in Sugar Land, Tex., along with two employees, in federal court for racial discrimination.
The discrimination she faced is pattern and practice when it comes to Black people engaging with financial institutions in this country, Mitchell-Stewarts attorney, Justin Moore, said in a statement to The Washington Post. For a Black female physician to be treated this way by Chase is a devastating reminder that no matter how hard we try and how far we climb, major corporations in this country still view us as if we are nothing.
Snip
MLAA
(17,281 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)liberalla
(9,238 posts)banking and financial institutions. A big settlement would do that.
Thomas Hurt
(13,903 posts)nor it seems can a black woman be qualified to sit on the Supreme Court.
The Pig kicked over the rocks and emboldened the fascists, but then again this has always been the position of the conservatives in this country.
Diamond_Dog
(31,979 posts)About a black Air Force veteran who went to his bank to deposit a check that was money he was awarded from a lawsuit, and the bank treated him the same way.
Just astonishing that this happens here in the year 2022. And right wingers grouse about woke culture
Caliman73
(11,730 posts)Right wingers try to keep the conversation focused on singular, bad actors. They do this because they can write the situation off and deny that there is anything systemic, anything collective about the attitudes that are held about Black people and other out groups. It is similar to the concept they tout about Unions. They HATE Unions because of the collective action. You can fight and defeat one or two workers that claim their wages are unfair, but when 20,000 workers threaten to walk off... that is a different problem.
Black people and others, claiming discrimination in a single instance, write it off. Systemic racism and collective negative ideas about Black people? Well then we need to examine our attitudes. Where are they coming from? How are they being disseminated so that they exist within the collective? If they can muddy the idea of these systemic and collectively held attitudes, then there does not have to be any kind of examination of our society. "It is just some random, bad people" they say, and so Black people just need to toughen up and not be so sensitive.
It happens in 2022 because no one wants to really take a look into how pervasive these attitudes are and how frequently they are propagated in our media, language, and other signifiers.
orwell
(7,771 posts)...who claim there is no systemic racism or that African Americans get special privilege.
"If everything else in your life was equal, would you be happy to wake up tomorrow as a black man or woman?"
Nobody has answered yes.
Caliman73
(11,730 posts)Jane Elliot, the inventor of the "Blue Eyes / Green Eyes" study has asked that same question to audiences of White people taking her course and has gotten the same result.
Mr.Bill
(24,281 posts)He says there isn't one white person in this theater who would trade places with me, and I'm rich.
orwell
(7,771 posts)...or in Mr. Rock's case many $$$$$$$$.
Love Chris Rock.
Probatim
(2,525 posts)It was funny and sad 20 years ago and still is.
Mr.Bill
(24,281 posts)Always liked him.
Lancero
(3,003 posts)Anymore.
JustAnotherGen
(31,810 posts)Folks better get used to Black Women of means.
We are the single most highly educated group in America.
https://www.thoughtco.com/black-women-most-educated-group-us-4048763
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)OMGWTF
(3,951 posts)At least, I fking hope. I'm old; I remember JFK and RFK and it's exasperating to think about all of the corrupt people in government since. They commit horrendous crimes (starting fake wars, climate denial, enriching their Oil/Rx/Bank overlords while we don't have healthcare, etc.) against our country and all of humanity and get away with it. It's profitable for them. They have no shame and know no limits. Until some of these evildoers are sent to prison the floggings of the people will continue.
The hoarding of money is the root of all evil.
JustAnotherGen
(31,810 posts)I seriously delight in Ms. James and Ms. Fani taking down the TCM.
MineralMan
(146,286 posts)No doubt this is not a Chase Bank policy. Instead, it is almost certainly some moron at that branch who can't stand that a Black woman has a check that large with which to open a new account. So, she must be committing some sort of crime, that person thinks.
Such a thing almost never happens to a white person. It simply doesn't.
Response to tblue37 (Original post)
malaise This message was self-deleted by its author.
malaise
(268,930 posts)Rec
Journeyman
(15,031 posts)that would legitimately raise concern.
But when a hold can be put on a check until it clears it seems unnecessarily paranoid, and legitimately raises concerns about discrimination (if not outright racism), for a bank to refuse to do business with her.
It's a shaky road to judge people by their looks, and serious harm can be done when you do, but if I were across a desk from this woman I believe I'd give her the benefit of the doubt and let her open an account. Sure, put a hold on it until the check clears, that's standard operating procedure. But until someone proves they're a risk, best to take a risk on them.
FakeNoose
(32,633 posts)The bank employees were being the racist dicks in this case. It's not the Chase bank's policy to discriminate against Blacks or any other minority. This doctor did the right thing by shining a spotlight on the racist employees, embarrassing them and the bank. Hopefully they're be fired or at least retrained.
As I mentioned on the other post, make deposits by ATM. As far as I know, no ATM has ever called the local police over a black person depositing a check.
Whiskeytide
(4,461 posts)
the real problem/reality. Besides, in her case, she could not have opened a new account thru the ATM.
FakeNoose
(32,633 posts)But it's possible to make a small deposit to open the account. Even cash or a small check that doesn't raise anyone's eyebrows.
Then once the account is open, make deposits and transfers via ATM or online. (Most banks have online check account management now.) I remember that I made a deposit online and sent a digital scan of the check as proof of receipt. It went through the bank and the check cleared, just as if I had deposited it in person. Nowadays I'm more likely to deposit checks through ATMs because my bank has been closing local branches near me.
IbogaProject
(2,804 posts)She should have tried to not stand out as much and all would have been fine.
elias7
(3,997 posts)yardwork
(61,588 posts)Why should she have to sneak around instead of depositing her first paycheck like everybody else?!
FakeNoose
(32,633 posts)I use the ATM all the time and so do a lot of other people. Banks are closing their branches everywhere to cut down on labor costs. but they install the ATMs in convenient places where they formerly had a branch. The ATMs are open 24 hours per day, 7 days per week (in some cases.) Where do you get that it's "sneaking" to use the ATM?
yardwork
(61,588 posts)So, instead of depositing her first paycheck she should have deposited a small amount first, to avoid the possibility of being descrinated against?
I'm sure it was unintentional, but it sounded to me like you were suggesting that this situation was the customer's fault. Nobody should have to go through life worried about "not raising eyebrows" for doing what white people do without being questioned.
I agree that ATMs are convenient, but I would hesitate to deposit a large check by ATM.
This physician accepted a job in this community, providing a desperately needed resource for them. The bank treated her poorly. There's no excuse and it's not her fault.
Rabrrrrrr
(58,347 posts)she shouldn't have to do so, either.
Is it the reality that she should have? Sadly, yes. But to offer that as advice just perpetuates the bullshit.
Like telling the black kids that they need to raise their hands nice and high and be super careful with cops - no, we need to tell cops to not be assholes.
We need to tell banks/white folk to stop being such racist fucks, and punish them harshly when they are.
The onus shouldn't be on the minorities to "tread carefully". I hate that shit.
yardwork
(61,588 posts)This and other threads on DU are full of this kind of "advice" to people being discrkmated against. "She should have, why didn't he, I would have..."
Unintentional or not, responses like that perpetuate racism.
The bank employees were being the racist dicks in this case.
Stinky The Clown
(67,789 posts)PEOPLE should . . . . no, MUST . . . . be able to participate fully in daily life without discrimination.
P E R I O D.
benfranklin1776
(6,443 posts)What you described should be the norm not the exception.
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,916 posts)There has been one time when I needed access to the money quicker and they made changes. But I get putting a hold on it. Not the rest of the racist nonsense of course.
FakeNoose
(32,633 posts)I hope Black people understand that banks do this to everyone, it's not something against minorities. I'm white and it has been done to me rather often. The only time they don't put a hold is when you cash the check at the bank where it's drawn. They can verify immediately that the check-writer has the funds to cover, and the bank will withdraw funds immediately.
Thirty-five years ago I worked for a company in Manhattan (NYC) and my paychecks were drawn from the Bank of New York. No problem there, except when I would deposit my paycheck into my suburban New Jersey bank it would take EIGHT DAYS for the funds to be available. Aaaah! It was highway robbery, those banks were just playing the float. The laws have been changed since then, thank God. But at the time I was desperately short of cash until I found out that I could take my check to the Bank of New York (even though I had no account there), cash it, and walk out the door with cash. There was a small fee for cashing the check, but I didn't even care about that. (Banks are no longer allowed to hold checks for longer than 48 hours, unless there's a special circumstance.)
Solomon
(12,310 posts)yardwork
(61,588 posts)They're being sued because they DIDNT follow standard practice.
AverageOldGuy
(1,523 posts)Puts a hold on any check above ????? (I don't recall the amount) HOWEVER they make a portion of the deposit available immediately.
cinematicdiversions
(1,969 posts)Um that is pretty normal... even if you are an established customer and are white...
I mean, if you open a new account with a check, they are going to hold it till it clears?
niyad
(113,259 posts)cinematicdiversions
(1,969 posts)I certainly have had WTF interactions with banks in the past, however. It isn't always about race. They treat people of every race like crap on occasion.
forgotmylogin
(7,527 posts)It isn't like she asked for $16k counted out in cash! Starting an account is the best way to do deposit a large sum, and I would have to suspect there are already standard verifications in place to determine fraud.
In any normal case, they would go through the process to open the account, and notify her later if anything was wrong. Large amounts routinely get the disclaimer "These funds may not be available for (some period of time) while the deposit is verified..."
DeeNice
(575 posts)"In another case in January 2020, a 44-year-old Black man from Detroit who had just settled a discrimination lawsuit with his former employer was accused of fraud when he tried to deposit the settlement check. He, too, sued for racial discrimination and, according to CNN, reached a settlement with the bank."
Apparently these deplorables don't mind paying to have people on a merry-go-round of violations & lawsuits instead of oh you know, living and letting live and everyone's better off.
Sapient Donkey
(1,568 posts)I understand needing to verify a $16k check from a unknown person, but I don't understand not verifying the check. Someone who comes in with a $16k check is probably going end up being a good customer for the bank over time.
You'd think these bankers would learn by now that when they pull this shit, it never works out for them in the long wrong. Stop letting bigotry get in the way of them doing their jobs.
COL Mustard
(5,897 posts)My employer (US Government) requires it.
Beaverhausen
(24,470 posts)with the check. Get it?
COL Mustard
(5,897 posts)But she's a professional. Not excusing the bank at all, but in most cases you can open an account online. Get that?
CloudWatcher
(1,846 posts)I think banks require photo-id now. Ever since some of the new laws that require them to report transactions over 10k to the feds.
Not sure if they're willing to do that remotely.
COL Mustard
(5,897 posts)But you can open an account online with a lot less than that and set up direct deposit so it's there when you need it.
Edited to add: I just went to look at my bank (Truist, formed by a merger of BB&T and SunTrust), and right on the landing page is "Open Account". www.truist.com
Beaverhausen
(24,470 posts)Maybe read the whole post where it said she was very proud to be taking her first paycheck to the bank to open the account.
Direct deposit doesn't really have the same thrill.
COL Mustard
(5,897 posts)Don't put words in my mouth, please...it's not sanitary.
It just didn't have to be that way. I get being proud of getting a first paycheck too...but $16K? Gonna draw scrutiny at most banks.
That is all...Have a nice day.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Not to excuse that bank, but wouldnt you use your existing account for a check that large?
Then transfer or whatever?
I took my first paycheck to open an account when I was 16.
Hekate
(90,644 posts)yardwork
(61,588 posts)Honestly, that community is fortunate to have a highly skilled physician accept a position there.
NYC Liberal
(20,135 posts)to go through. Thats definitely the case where I work now. I set up direct deposit the day I was hired but I got a paper check for the first two cycles before direct deposit started.
COL Mustard
(5,897 posts)I've had DD forever and will have it forever. It's required. US Gov't doesn't mail paychecks anymore, as far as I know.
yardwork
(61,588 posts)Direct deposit takes effect in subsequent cycles.
COL Mustard
(5,897 posts)I'm very surprised.
yardwork
(61,588 posts)Sapient Donkey
(1,568 posts)Usually just upload the documents and they will give you a "test" about your own financial history to make sure you're who you claim to be. They also have a lot of those online banks like Chime and Simple. Those are 100% done online. My CapitalOne account was all done online a few years back, and someone told me they went into open an account Capital One, but they were told to open it up online. Not sure if that's a thing, or something unique to his situation.
electric_blue68
(14,882 posts)Bc I'm missing my debit card in the house i've had to got to my bank to get money.
So I'm using my passport. The tellers have been patient w me cuase they have to ask extra questions I am also a quite a polite, and considerate person in general fam, friends, on line, strangers, and workers. So usually helpful.
I do it bc that's how I was raised.
(I can be nasty, but I usually have to be provoked I'm a not Zen master)
So I haven't gotten any extra checks in several months to know. Hmmm , ah, I'll call up my bank about it.
Thanks, for the heads up.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Following is a partial list of banks that can open an account entirely online, with no need for a customer to visit a branch.
BayVanguard Bank*
Altamaha Bank
Androscoggin Bank*
Axos Bank*
BankFive
Bank of America*
Bank of Travelers Rest
Bank Independent*
Brinks Money Bank*
The Cape Cod Five Cents Savings Bank*
Capitol Federal Savings Bank*
Centennial Bank
Centier Bank
Chase*
Chime Bank*
Citibank*
Community Bank & Trust*
Community First Bank*
Community State Bank
Discover Bank*
Dollar Bank
Eclipse Bank
Essex Bank
Exchange Bank*
Farmers & Merchants Union Bank*
First Arkansas Bank & Trust*
First Community Bank
First Federal Bank of Kansas City
First Federal Savings and Loan
f1RST Financial Bank*
First Horizon Bank*
First Merchants
First National Bank
First National Bank and Trust
First National Bank Texas*
Frontier Bank*
First Arkansas Bank & Trust*
First State Bank St. Charles*
Franklin Savings Bank*
FSNB*
Great Southern Bank
Green Dot Bank*
Guaranty Bank*
Home Federal Savings & Loan Association of Grand Island*
HomeBank*
Independent Bank*
Kearny Bank*
LCNB National Bank*
M&T Bank*
Malvern Bank*
MCNB Bank and Trust Company
Merchants Bank*
Metairie Bank
Netspend*
Northwest Bank*
Park National Bank
Progressive Ozark Bank*
Republic Bank & Trust Company
Sound Community Bank*
South State Bank*
Springs Valley Bank & Trust Company*
State Bank*
Synchrony Bank*
TD Bank*
TS Bank
UCB Bank
U.S. Bank
United Bank*
United Community Bank*
Vista Bank
Washington Trust Bank
Wells Fargo
West Plains Bank and Trust Company*
Wood & Huston Bank*
Woodsville Guaranty Savings Bank
AllyCat
(16,177 posts)I get that that she could have opened the account online. Opening an account in person is still an option and she should not have been treated this way
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)The reason for my response was to illustrate that opening an account online (and with a zero-balance, too) was to enlighten person who had previously posted this statement:
Not sure if they're willing to do that remotely.
AllyCat
(16,177 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Sapient Donkey
(1,568 posts)And as was discussed down below, she was trying to open a new account. Sure she could have created the account before she planned on depositing such a large check, but she didn't do that and it shouldn't matter. And since it's a sign-on bonus, the direct deposit stuff likely wasn't set up yet. It's still common for even the first paycheck to be sent out as a paper check.
I don't understand why they didn't just verify the check. They setup the account and they start the process to get it deposited until the funds are verified. If it turned out to be invalid then they close the account and report it to the authorities.
yardwork
(61,588 posts)All they had to do was put a hold on the check and wait for it to clear. Instead they accused a prospective customer of being a criminal and refused her business.
Generic Brad
(14,274 posts)The rest - nope. That information is private and financial institutions do not have access to other financial institutions account data.
calimary
(81,220 posts)patphil
(6,169 posts)What the f**k is wrong with these people. Now they're going to lose a lawsuit that will cost them a huge amount of money.
The world of the right wing is populated by idiots.
roody
(10,849 posts)usaf-vet
(6,181 posts)Volunteer and travel the world with Doctors Without Borders.
Jim__
(14,075 posts)It can be difficult to protect children from CRT.
Solly Mack
(90,762 posts)CaptainTruth
(6,588 posts)...& within a year Chase bought Wash Mutual so I was right back with those incompetent bastards. At that point I gathered up enough cash to pay off the mortgage so I wouldn't have to do business with them again.
CloudWatcher
(1,846 posts)I used to have an account with Chase. I would always get a kick out of their
"on hold" computer repeating (over and over and over again) something along
the lines of "Chase ... where the right relationship is important".
... coming from a disembodied computer :/
electric_blue68
(14,882 posts)I've almost never had problem in about the 40 years I had an account. Once I got a smart phone I do on line banking auto system. I also check up by phone, too.
Quite rare that I need a rep.
The phone service reps have been very patient and helpful when the rare or weird stuff happens once last week, in fact.
Chicago1980
(1,968 posts)"Racial discrimination in banking, a phenomenon sometimes called banking while Black, is a common experience in the United States"
It's not phenomenon if it's a "common experience".
OMGWTF
(3,951 posts)twodogsbarking
(9,732 posts)But they didn't.
aggiesal
(8,911 posts)This happened to me in 1995 ...
Moved down from the bay area to San Diego when I purchased a home in a highly (R) area predominantly white.
Back in 1995, paychecks weren't automatically deposited when you start a new job. It would take 2-3 pay periods before auto deposit kicked in.
So the first 2-3 paychecks were live checks.
Went to the local branch of the bank I'd been using for about 10 years in the bay area to deposit the first live paycheck.
The teller looks at the check and then looks at the Mex/Am standing in front of her, then back to the check , then says "I'm going to need a fingerprint."
I told her, "Absolutely not!" She insisted. I asked to speak with the branch manager.
He tells me it's policy, yet I mentioned that none of the other customers had supplied their fingerprint, how was that policy?
I told him that if he didn't deposit my check, that I would close my account and take my services elsewhere.
They deposited the check and I started using a different branch.
Emile
(22,669 posts)peggysue2
(10,828 posts)Disgusting behavior by these bank employees. At the very least, they should be called on the carpet by supervisors and have their employment records noted.
Good for this young doctor for calling the bank out and exposing the incident. Shame the hell out of them!
lame54
(35,284 posts)lame54
(35,284 posts)cbabe
(3,539 posts)professional black woman?
llashram
(6,265 posts)less inclined, for years, to NOT, show their bias for the last few decades. Their loser TPOSFG has told them to hate who you will, I'll pay your court cost ect. Blacks, Hispanics, Native Americans??? Open season...again. African-Americans specifically as a point to be made also. is a-coming. Goddamn militias-white supremacists-nationalists-racists ARE NOT the only ones with a grievance. AND IT's A grievance, that carries no weight. Wanting to put all not white back in the box. And those black faces at trumps rallies? Deceived self-hating idiots. When I run into one at the vet's meeting. I just ask, how did that work out for herman CAIN?
electric_blue68
(14,882 posts)Dog Whistles, and full on Fog Horns!!!
Letting them out of their non-racist facade!
electric_blue68
(14,882 posts)probably even bright eyed before she was racistly rejected bc depositing her first check as a Dr. Ready to do good work and make difference!
Obviously 😔 Black people've been telling these stories for decades or more to each other! Argggggg!
I would have have believed you 40
yrs ago bc I learned enough by then.
mahina
(17,645 posts)I mean in terms of business only as they obvs have to capacity for remorse.
They fd up good. I expect a lot of people are going to be closing accounts and it will diminish future business
Ive been thinking about closing my card with them and now I will do it.
That poor lady. How disillusioning. They took happiness and accomplishment and made the whole thing a shame for all Americans.
tblue37
(65,328 posts)CatWoman
(79,295 posts)peppertree
(21,624 posts)phylny
(8,379 posts)if she gets a settlement that wipes out her med school loans?
peppertree
(21,624 posts)Depositing while Black.
Picaro
(1,517 posts)How in the hell does keep happening?
This is not perceptible to we white folks. But the level of overt suspicion that blacks have to contend with is disgusting.
Hope they write her a large check. Theyll never go to court.
They need to fire everyone at that branch that had any hand in this idiocy in addition to the pay out.
spanone
(135,823 posts)Accused her of attempting to commit fraud?
Living while Black?
WHAT THEE FUCK?
live love laugh
(13,100 posts)SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)$1M won't deter Chase from doing this again.
napi21
(45,806 posts)in some other financial institution. Chase doesn't deserve to gain ANYTHING from her, whether it would come from adding to their investments, or from one of their credit cards. She also should spread the word to family, friends, co-workers, and even patients about Chase's treatment of their customers so they also will not deal with that bank.
I've been retired for20 years, but even when I was in the workforce, no one I worked with, or even knew would have treated any minority individual that badly! Most of my working years were in Pa. but even after I was transferred to SC, open, blatant, discrimination just wasn't done. shame on the people in that town for not accepting society's rules.
Blue Owl
(50,349 posts)soldierant
(6,847 posts)present a strong argument for reestablishing Postal Banking (once we have e Postal Service again.)
I don't deal with banks any more if I can help it. Credit Union all the way.
PCIntern
(25,532 posts)In The Heat of the Night?
Rod Steigers question of Sidney Poitier
.
It never ceases to amaze me how stupid these idiots are.