Hey Mourdock! If rape pregnancy is god's will, then

[Lionessa]

so is cancer, infections, broken bones, depression, anxiety, bad teeth, small boobs, ... yes I know I'm heading into the ridiculous, but the point isn't.

Mourdock, have you or any of your relatives ever received medical attention for ANYTHING? Because if you did, then you went against god's will.

This is one of the things that pisses me off the most regarding xians and the like. Supposedly god knows all and all is god's plan, until it affects you, then you all want medical attention to an astounding level in the US, to correct and to save you from going to heaven when your god apparently thinks it's time.

Bunch of f'ing hypocrites.

[HockeyMom]

1. Forget Viagra, guys

God's WILL.

[Lionessa]

2. Ding ding ding! There's another good example.

[ProudProgressiveNow]

9. Double ding! nt

[napkinz]

23. No condoms, no Viagra, ban it all!

Let God do his job!

[darkangel218]

3. I really dont know how such fundies get to hold seats in the government

It's obvious they can't use their rational minds.

[cognoscere]

18. They can't use what they don't have. N/T

[NightWatcher]

4. but when his dick goes limp (according to god's will) why does he take a Viagra?

He's clearly going against god's will and should face the wrath of eternal damnation and hell fire




I dont want anyone making decisions for my reproductive parts, so I wont make decisions that affect yours.

[Kelvin Mace]

5. Actually

the gaping problem with his "God's" view:

If life is a "gift from God", then that would mean that "God" creates some life with the intent of killing women. Mourdock accepts the need for abortion when the mother's life is at risk, oblivious to the fact that his "God" willfully allowed a pregnancy to happen so as to place the mother in a position of choosing between her own life or that of her child.

Aside from being something that only a sadistic psychopath would do, it is logically incompatible with Mourdock's reasons for allowing abortion in this instance.

The unwilling rape victim was given the unwanted "gift" of pregnancy, and this gift may not be revoked. However, the wanted, but fatal "gift" given to to the willing mother may be refused?

Huh?

It would seem to me that if an unwilling rape victim may not refuse the "gift", a woman who wanted the "gift" has ZERO grounds for refusal. After all, she set about getting pregnant fully aware of the risks, with the express intent of becoming pregnant.

[Lionessa]

6. All medical intervention is against god's will. Period. Anyone claiming to be pious in anyway who

utilizes the medical system is a hypocrite.

[demwing]

24. That's complete nonsense

I don't care how you feel about religion in general, but to say that anyone who is religious in any way and who seeks medical attention is a hypocrite, well that's bullshit.

[Lionessa]

25. No it isn't, you folks just rationalize your way out of believing in god's will when it suits you.

[demwing]

26. I understand you want to score argument points

But you really do not know what you're talking about ...

What do I believe? Since you think you know so much about me, tell me what you think you know. Tell me what I believe.

[Lionessa]

28. I don't need to score points, I'm right, about all folks that claim religion then run to doctors.

Period. You can blow whatever smoke you want up your ass, either you believe, or you don't. If you go to a doctor, you're interfering with the plan your supposed god had for you. Therefore you are a hypocrite in my book.

[demwing]

29. You undermine your own credibility

by using big, sweeping statements that push people into narrow, little boxes.

Saying "either you believe or you don't. If you go to a doctor, you're interfering with the plan your supposed god had for you." reveals ignorance of the complexity and details of many philosophies. Worse, it shows a stubborn, willful ignorance of a simple fact: that spiritual beliefs are broad, diverse, and not easily boxed in by your simplistic generalizations. Generalizations are not designed to reveal the truth, they are designed to obscure it.

Pretending that such simplifications are true may help you maintain your criticisms, and insisting that people who disagree with you are just blowing smoke up their asses may stroke your ego, but all that your harsh words and attitudes really proves is that it's more important for you to flash your snark than it is to get the answers right.

And by the way - your failure to answer my question, prove your point, and tell me what I believe is noted. You won't answer because you can't answer.

Hell, you can't even support your original point, which was "All medical intervention is against god's will."

You don't know what you're talking about.

[Lionessa]

30. Fortunately the opinions of those who believe in mythical bs are in no position to effectively rate

my credibility. You can type as much as you want, it will not alter the facts of reality. Your being offended by the recognition of a 21st century embracing person as to the flaws and hypocrisy of clinging to myths is your problem, not mine.

[demwing]

38. No, your not knowing what the hell you're talking about

is very definitely your problem.

You continue to assume you know what I believe, and your stubborn insistence that your flaw is my problem is foolish.

[Lionessa]

40. "knowing", really you're going to try to suggest that those that believe in myths have "knowing"

compared to those of us who embrace the real world without mythology to support us.


I've said nothing about you personally except that your propositions toward this conversation are complete and utter garbage. Whether you "believe" or not is besides the point, you're attempting to mitigate on the behalf of those that do, which is what my focus has been on. If you have some reason your personal belief is pertinent then you'll have to be specific, however, to argue against the bs you type, I don't need to be "knowing" of your personal preference, I just have to read the crap you type and respond.

[demwing]

41. I don't care what others believe - that's up to them

what I care about in your post is the ridiculously sweeping statement that all people who believe, believe alike, and share the same flaw as the ass hat Mourdock.

There are very progressive Christians, Jews, Hindus, and Muslims on this board that would absolutely disagree, and you insult them with your broad, hateful attack. You should be embarrassed,

[Lionessa]

42. Sweeping statement or not, I stand by it.

They may and in my opinion should be embarrassed about their hypocrisy and the backwardness.

Just because Mourdock has an extreme case of ignorance, doesn't exclude the fact that most that still believe in skydaddies are pretty ignorant to some extent, and hypocritical to the extent that they don't adhere to their supposed belief.

I shall never be embarrassed for calling out reality. You're welcome to don that for yourself trying to suggest that I should.

[demwing]

43. I see, you don't give a damn

about people with different beliefs. You're just using this whole thing about Mourdock as an opportunity to feel superior and get your hate on.

I have a solution a solution for that.

[Lionessa]

46. I don't deal in beliefs, I deal in facts and knowledge. Giving beliefs credibility is essentially

why so many lies, political, religious, social, etc are "accepted" even though there are absolutely no facts to back up those "beliefs." So I think though you must've done a quick edit....(on edit: no, it was me that is misreading your signature as part of the post, and then in reply mode it was gone. I misread that as you accusing me of being intolerant like FNC, hence my comment here whch I am correcting now, my apologies) If I pretend to give credibility to religious foolishness, then I have to do the same with the FNC and give all their beliefs credibility. If I did, I have to respect people who believe Obama is not a citizen, for one small example.

I understand you want me and I guess everyone to respect hypocrisy and mythology regarding religion, but not for any other aspect of life? Wow, just can't go there.

It truly scares me the religious level in this country. But I'm learning that it is time for atheists to quit giving respect and courtesy when none is really deserved.

If you find the disturbing and provocative to your life, EXCELLENT, that's the point to my not being silent. It'll make you think even if for now you continue to stand exactly where you do.

[demwing]

47. Please try to understand the distinction - there's respect for a belief

and then there's respect for the right to believe. The right to believe is what makes freedom of speech sacred. Speech is just a verbalization of an idea, and ideas are beliefs.

For example, take this discussion we've been having. You refuse to give respect for people who are religious, and insist that all who do so are automatic hypocrites. You rationalize this by saying that things not based in fact aren't worthy of respect.

Yet presented with the obvious truth that you cannot simply lump all people (not even most people, but all people!), you refused to change your statements. Your idea (that all "believers" are all alike) is very enthusiastically held, despite evidence to the contrary.

Your idea is your belief, and not based in fact.

Quit acting as if the religious want to convert you when they ask for respect. Everyone has the right to believe.

Not just the religious, but me as as well. Even you.

[Lionessa]

48. I understand completely, you're just wrong, Good day.

[demwing]

49. lol

[RagAss]

7. Where the fuck is Jim Jones when we need him?

[H2O Man]

8. I am not sure

how "small boobs" made this list.

But the overall point of the OP is on target, and thus "recommended."

[Lionessa]

10. There is a huge push these days to alter one's boobs size.

One would think, if one were religious, that god wanted one's boob to be a particular size and not bigger nor smaller.

[H2O Man]

35. Yes, I am aware

of this trend, which is a sad part of the unhealthy plastic surgery fad.

[Lionessa]

36. Of course, but that doesn't address what I'm commenting on,

which is that most "religious" folks, particularly Americans, are hypocrites for not either accepting "god's will" or embracing the realities of the 21st century, which really has no room left for such foolish mythology as god, or allah, or Athena or Zeus for that matter.

[libodem]

11. All ailments

Should be able to be prayed away if it is God's will.
What religion is it that won't allow medical intervention of any kind?
Maybe all the pubs should join it. If that is how they really feel?

[Lionessa]

12. Tell me please which religion, in it's pure form, according to it's doctrines

allows interference with god's will? My point is, since they don't honor god's will in any other ailment, it's ridiculous to apply it to pregnancy.

And MORE IMPORTANTLY, if one is not going to embrace god's will, one should give up on such mythical bullshit and enter the 21st century of science, technology, and medicine fully.

[libodem]

17. I understand

And I agree with your point.

[mysuzuki2]

13. Maybe it is god's will that I come to his house and kick him in the balls?

I will have to pray on it!

[Jumping John]

14. More examples of Children pregnancies that God intended to happen according to

Dick Mourdock:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youngest_birth_mothers

[RichGirl]

15. If rape is God's will...then...

Why pray?

Does Mourdock know that 2 year olds get raped. Is that God's will too?

[Lionessa]

16. In fairness,

he doesn't say rape is god's will, he says the impregnation due to rape is god's will. A little different.

[salin]

19. Also... the election of Obama to the presidency of the United States.

If everything is preordained.

[Lionessa]

20. That has nothing to do with this topic.

At this point Obama was elected, I don't believe anyone has claimed he wasn't or that somehow god didn't want it or whatever. And as for his re-election, we don't know yet, though the alternative is beyond frightening.

This OP however is about religious stupidity and hypocrisy as it relates to medicine and science, not the election.

[salin]

21. I was speaking to logic. I appologize for taking such a far jump, but the logic is the same.

I am not discounting the topic. If you look back a few days of posts, I was one of the first people to post on Murdoch's comment (I am in Indiana, and I am a rape survivor. I couldn't help but comment.)

However, a few days later, the logic of having a Calvinistic view of the world (esp after Murdoch starting attempting to righteously simultaneously denounce the act of rape, while claiming the blessing of a preordained pregnancy resulting from that rape), I had to move out of the space of outrage from a rape survivor (in my healing which took ten years to even begin to address) and into the space of looking at the ridiculousness when one extends the belief of everything being preordained (which is the root behind Murdoch's statement, if we accept that he is being sincere, and which we can mock, if it is not than he is pandering to the rightwing taliborniagain which also can be mocked.)

My point, is that if everything is preordained, than Murdoch and his followers have to swallow the reality that Obama was elected as president in 2008. It is a logical parallelism, per the Calvinist belief system. It is a confrontational idea, not to my fellow Duers, but to those who oppose us and use Calvinist views to support extreme positions, but do not apply their views to events that they do not agree with. I was attempting to point out the flaw and hypocrisy of the view point. Which seemed in line with your point.

I apologize for appearing to hijack your thread. In the short time that I had to post (had to get up before 5 am), the logic made sense to me, but I didn't spend the time to explain the jump in logic. Apologies.

[rustydog]

22. If it is God's Will, then even when the woman's life is at risk, wouldn't aborting

be AGAINST God's will?
How could you be ok with an abortion to save the mother? Isn't that against His will?

Wh do you, Ryan, Willard and other MEN get to make this "God's will" decision instead of a woman?

[FieryLocks]

27. The GOP Plan For Women

[StarryNite]

32. Wow!

That sums it up!

[StarryNite]

31. His "logic" is so full of holes a sieve would hold more water.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. Mark Twain wrote about this.

In "Letters from the Earth" he talks about how God created mosquitoes and they carried the bug that caused Yellow Fever. Then Walter Reed discovered the bug and that mosquitoes carried it. Then measures were taken to eliminate it.

So, what did the people say when it was eradicated? "Thank God!". Walter Reed just happened to be around screwing up God's Will but..of course...that was God's Will also.

[Lionessa]

34. They should've thanked Walter Reed, and realized that if their god actually existed, he was a

complete asshole for putting yellow fever in mosquitos. Or Bubonic plague in rats, or the devil in witches (don't forget, many said thank god when they were burning those too.)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

37. Which is exactly what Mark Twain was getting at.

[Lionessa]

39. Good. That's what I thought, but wasn't quite sure.

[demwing]

44. Here's another - If rape is God's will, so is Terrorism

and whatever results from that terrorism should be considered a divine gift...

[Lionessa]

45. True dat.

Unfortunately, those creating the terrorism whether it be muslims against xians, xians against jews, or jews against arabs, or whatever, those that create the terrorism (and understand fully I think we, the US, actually create a form terrorism with drones and Gitmo and rendition, etc) each indeed believe the aggression and hatred are god's will.

The "hurt" side however usually doesn't see the terror attacks as godsent.