Did your miliitary services change the way you eventually lived your life. Was it different than...

[usaf-vet]

.... your high school predicted where you were headed?

Note 1: This was originally posted as a comment on this Atticus OP earlier today.

Here: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=16343970

Note 2: It now is offered as an OP on its own, prompted by this comment in the Atticus thread above.

This should be an OP on its own, because its thought-provoking in a different direction.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=16344995

My story: the school's views and the military experience.

The schools told me not to expect to go to college. Find a job working with your hands: mechanic, laborer, carpenter, or factory worker. I was five year HS student just squeaking by.

It was 1965, and my dad was a WW II vet and his dad a WW I vet. So it seemed to be that my best option was the military. So I enlisted the week after graduation in the USAF. Of course, Vietnam was raging then, and I was surprised at how vehemently opposed my dad was to my 18-year-old independent decision to enlist. I should say I was opposed to the war then and still believe in my decision now.

Well, here is the question I would like to pose to others. Did the military change your outlook toward your ability to do more than what the school experts predicted? I chose the USAF because the recruiter asked me what job I wanted. My Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery (ASVAB) test scores were respectable and opened many options. I told the recruiter I wanted to be a medic, and he said that that was a viable choice based on ASVAB scores.

Two months later, I left for basic training. At the time, 57 years ago, I was in great physical shape, having worked through high school in physical jobs. Basic training wasn't a breeze, but it wasn't overly challenging either. I started to realize that you knew exactly what the military expected of you, and if you met those expectations, you succeeded and advanced.

We the day came to see counselors about your job wishes. There was a bit of a surprise waiting for me. The counselor said, so you want to be a medic? I said yes, sir! He said, tremendous so, your first choice is medic, your second choice is air traffic controllers, and your third choice is air police. This was the moment I found out the recruiter wasn't completely honest with me. I didn't realize there were three choices. You got one; the military got the other two. Ok, so let's see, the counselor said as he shuffled through the papers. Hey, you are in luck; medics it is. You will get orders shortly and will be headed off to medics school.

Ok, off to the question with one summary statement.

I graduated from introductory (basic) medics school, 2nd in the class. I graduated 2nd in an advanced specialty school. I went on to put in my four years loved the job. I got discharged in 1969, married in 1970, and started a family. Earn two college degrees. Fifty years later, my wife and I are still married (she has a BS degree). We are retired and financially comfortable. She spent her career working as a specialist in public schools. And I became a school board member and worked for those eight years to try and change how we teach in schools. Along with eight other board members, my name is on a plaque in the newest elementary school at the school's front entrance.

My question. Did your time in the military become a turning point in your life and your own expectations of what you were capable of doing in life? My time did.

I know that the Vietnam war created a lot of pain and sorrow for eight families in my hometown community. I like to think that I have tried to honor my eight high school classmates that were KIA in Vietnam by doing all I could do to make life better for those in my community today and every day.

[Aristus]

1. I was already a neat-nik years before I joined the Army, so that didn't change at all.

But when I was in, I learned what I've come to call "mission mode", getting the job done as quickly and as efficiently as possible. Gives me more time to crash and vedge out.

[William769]

2. I tried to get into the military, but they would not accept me.

One of the questions I was asked was something to the effect was I a homosexual? This was 1982.

I spent the rest of my life fighting for LGBTQ rights. I will admit before this moment, I probably would not have fought like I did, but this one instance really pissed me off.

[usaf-vet]

3. Interesting.. not serving did change your life. Good for you. You fought a battle worth fighting.

[Aristus]

19. Fuck 'em.

From a straight ally...

[11 Bravo]

4. It imbued me with a contempt that occasionally morphs into rage directed toward ...

chest-pounding chickenhawks who have no concept of the horrors of combat, yet are more than willing to employ the thinnest of pretexts to send someone else's kid into the meat grinder.

[usaf-vet]

5. Oh I have plenty of that as well. See the last paragaph in my post. That is the origin of my anger.

[DVRacer]

6. My story has some similarities

Dad’s dad spent 30 years in the Marine Corps April 1942 he turned 20 in June of that year he hit the beach at Guadalcanal and changed according to family.

Dad spent 30 years in the Army in Special Forces his 20th birthday he was in Viet Nam as an advisor at first he was different afterwards.

I got a little ahead of them because at 19 I went to Bosnia in the Navy as an Intelligence Specialist. I saw the best and worst of humanity in that deployment and it too changed me. I saw genocide first hand in mass graves also people sharing the last bit of food to a stranger because they were hungry. I understand even in our struggles here things can be much worse. I learned to listen more and offer solutions once I have evaluated the consequences heavily. The 2000’s were hard for me to watch and I have not forgotten them as quickly as some. I just want a better world for my children like most but I see dark clouds on the horizon in many forms. The biggest threat I see is Authoritarianism and absolutism in politics around the world here at home the tribalism. Trump was a power hungry idiot I’m more concerned about what comes next if it’s smarter.

[comradebillyboy]

7. I lost my student deferment in 1970 when I got my BS

degree. My draft board told me I would be conscripted in the fall so I enlisted in the Air Force. I was a neurotic loner type and military service didn't really agree with me. Still I did my job to the best of my ability, served overseas for a while and was honorably discharged after four years of active duty. I didn't care for the military but I very much respected the people I served with. It was a positive socializing experience for me and I learned a lot about working cooperatively with others. I used my GI Bill benefits to get my masters degree in engineering and for a VA loan for my first house.

All in all my military service was a net positive for me and made me a better, although far from perfect, person.

[usaf-vet]

8. When I look at todays kids with thousand of dollars of school debt. I think GI bill.

My son and his wife in their forties just paid their loans off.

[PBC_Democrat]

9. 1000% YES!

I was a bit of a lost soul at 18 with no future and was a disappointment to my parents. During a rare moment of lucidity I decided my life needed some drastic change.
I joined the US Army in 1975 and stayed for 20 years.
The Army taught me punctuality, responsibility, accountability, and
to do the job right the first time.
The military paid for my 4-year degree from a great private college in Boston and a Masters degree from a school in NH.

Throughout my 2nd career in the business world I could usually spot the former military people.

[usaf-vet]

10. Me too!

Your quote:

I could usually spot the former military people.

[cloudbase]

11. I don't know if it was a turning point,

but it was very influential in a number of ways.

I still keep my leather shoes shined, and still properly tuck my dress shirts. My gig line is always straight. I still do PT five mornings a week, and still occasionally curse up a storm.

[marie999]

12. I was about the best thing I could have done for myself but didn't know it at the time.

In the third year of my enlistment, I started to have mental health problems. It was not caused by being in the army, but I did see a psychiatrist once. I got out after 4 years with an honorable discharge. In 1995 it got worse. I ended up with a 100% service-connected disability and Social Security disability and full medical. If I hadn't joined the army I would have ended up getting about $900 a month from Social Security.

[lpbk2713]

13. It was 1969 when I was released from active duty.

I thought I knew what I could expect from friends and family. I'd rather not elaborate.

[Chainfire]

14. I brought nothing to the military and I took nothing back with me.

I joined to avoid being prosecuted for avoiding the draft. I gritted my teeth, did my time. I refused the offer of OCS and Nuclear Power School; I went in as an E3 and came out as an E3. I stayed out of trouble, but I was mildly resistant to the whole thing. I had an officer tell me that I just didn't understand the traditions of the Navy. I understood, I just chose to participate at the minimum level of cooperation. They got my body, but not my soul.

I do need to correct one thing, I did take something out of the service; my first home was bought with a VA loan.

[jackcrow2001]

15. Retired Navy

When I finished High School I was well read, but had poor work habits. In the Cleveland public school system in those days you could miss/cut classes at a horrific rate as long as you could pass exams you could get by and graduate with decent grades. Even if I had found a way to get into some form of higher education, at best I would have wasted money, at worst developed a substance abuse problem along with wasted time and money. While still in high school I was aware of this personal shortcoming, not that I stopped skipping classes and applied myself, but I did make an appointment to see the Air Force recruiter.....he was willing to see me the week after I called, when I showed up he was on the phone with his girlfriend, after a few minutes without being acknowledged, I looked down the hall where AO1 Bolden was waving me over with a big smile...........Sooo I enlisted in the US Navy delayed entry program leaving Cleveland 11 months later for Boot camp. Asked for and was enrolled in "A" school for Aviation Electronics Technician, while in that program one of the instructors asked me if I wanted to be an Aircrewman, I replied ummm whats that? he told me I'd work on big planes while in flight to keep on mission, I said ummmm OK? And that's how you spend 21 years in the US Navy without ever being assigned to a ship..... I'm not sure if I would have been a slacker loser without the military service, I am sure that I made it through a lot of youthful screwups and potentially life altering errors alot better because of the Petty Officers in charge of me keeping me from being dumber than I already was. My work habits got better, I still make a living in electronics and I lived in Europe for 13 years on active duty, where I met my wife an aircraft electrician AE still my best friend and partner.... So yes I believe that Military service took a kid with some potential but a lot of flaws and gave me what I needed to become much more than I could imagine.
Later days

[sarisataka]

16. Yes, I think it made me better

But there are some things that stick with you that are not so good.

[maxrandb]

17. Since I ended up doing 28 years in the Navy

I would say...maybe.

So, I had about the best job for a kid with a High School diploma in 1980. I was full time stock in a midwest grocery chain. We had stores in Ohio, PA and WV. I started at what was the first large grocery stores in the country. It had hard wood floors. I think it was built in any old skating rink in Columbus, OH, right across the street from The Ohio State University.

In 1980, I was making $12.60 an hour, time and a half for overtime, double time on Sundays and Holidays, and got 8 hours of pay on my Birthday, whether I worked, or not.

I also met the love of my life that year. I wanted something more our of life, so I quit that job and joined the Navy.

I found my niche. It got me out into the world. I touched every continent in the world, including Antarctica.

The Navy was good to me. I found that I enjoyed what I was doing, and that I could advance. I started as an E1 and retired as a LCDR Mustang Officer.

I say maybe, because I think luck had a lot to do with it. I was fortunate to work with really good people and good leaders. Some of the folks I went to Boot Camp with weren't so lucky. Some worked for some complete asspickles.

So luck, how I learned to handle adversity from my parents, all the people that helped me along my way, even those that served as bad examples and seeing the world changed me.

But more than anything, it was my bride that changed me, challenged me, inspired me and helped me grow.

Maybe just one different choice I had made would have stymied me.

I do know this. Some of my friends, when I go back home, are sitting at the same bar stools they were sitting in 40 years ago.

Nothing wrong with that. I just happened to be really good at a job I enjoyed doing.

I think it was Woody Hayes who said that "being successful in life is easy. All you have to do is find something you enjoy doing, and then find someone to pay you to do it."

[madville]

18. I needed a job I couldn't easily quit

I had 10 different jobs between 18-21 years old, finally joined up, needed something I was required by law to show up to I guess.

It taught me some work ethic I guess, stuck with it 21 years. I was mostly focused on maximizing my benefits when I stayed after my first enlistment, I got a degree at no cost with Tuition Assistance, my son used 13 months of my GI Bill and graduated technical college debt free. I have my retirement pension, worth about $2400 a month, get another $1997 a month in tax-free VA compensation.

I also worked some years as a federal civilian for the same service I retired from and got vested in the FERS pension, that will only be a few hundred bucks a month when I turn 62 though. I have a second(or third) career now in the technical field I was trained for in the military, I am building another pension with it and will also take social security at age 62.5.

I think more than anything it taught me to set myself up for retirement with government pensions and health plans, by 62.5 years old will have 5 different checks coming in (not counting my TSP, 401k, and Roth withdrawals) sorry for driving up the deficit lol.

[FakeNoose]

20. Do you know the story of John Kerry?

(link) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kerry

John Kerry graduated from Yale in 1966. He had other career options, but he chose to enlist in the U.S. Navy directly after college. Kerry eventually served in Vietnam as a swift boat captain and saw a lot of action. You could say that his life was changed forever by his military service, since he went on to found the VVAW - Vietnam Vets Against the War - and he became one of our most influential war protestors of the early 70's.

Several books have been written about John Kerry, but I suggest taking a look at the Wikipedia write-up. His life took a dramatic turn when he realized how immoral and unwinnable the Vietnam War was. His political convictions led him to eventually run for office in Massachusetts.