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LymphocyteLover

(5,684 posts)
Sat Feb 12, 2022, 01:24 PM Feb 2022

Why hasn't Trump ever been charged for the Mueller obstruction of justice counts?

This piece addresses something that I've been curious and frustrated about for a long time-- why Trump hasn't been prosecuted for the Mueller report obstruction counts-- is really important and worth a read.

TL;DR-- Bill Barr screwed it all up & he also interfered with the prosecution of other crimes by Trump. Barr did this in a way that makes it very difficult for the DOJ to revisit those charges.

Also John Durham continues to blow smoke around and screw up the prosecution of other Trump-related crimes.

https://www.emptywheel.net/2022/02/10/on-unrealistic-expectations-for-mueller-report-obstruction-charges/

21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Why hasn't Trump ever been charged for the Mueller obstruction of justice counts? (Original Post) LymphocyteLover Feb 2022 OP
Because he was impeached and let off? LakeArenal Feb 2022 #1
Rhetorical question? But clearly it was Republican corruption LymphocyteLover Feb 2022 #7
Mueller wasn't an independent special prosecutor. Perhaps that needs to be fixed. L. Coyote Feb 2022 #2
Yes, absolutely! LymphocyteLover Feb 2022 #8
It would be so much easier to go for obstruction if Mueller had found trump responsible for Hoyt Feb 2022 #3
Remember Bill Barr made sure any damning evidence was kept hidden LymphocyteLover Feb 2022 #9
Wish there were hard evidence of that. Hoyt Feb 2022 #13
what do you mean-- it took forever to get the unredacted Mueller Report because of him LymphocyteLover Feb 2022 #15
Mueller said 20+ times that there was no evidence trump or campaign conspired with Russians. Hoyt Feb 2022 #16
Did you write all this or was it taken from somewhere? What a strange post. LymphocyteLover Feb 2022 #17
Quotes come from Barr's relatively short memo, which you obviously haven't read. Hoyt Feb 2022 #18
I did. Obviously the quotes come from his memo. I meant the whole thing LymphocyteLover Feb 2022 #19
Because nobody punishes Trump... BlueJac Feb 2022 #4
It's a good theory with a lot of evidence but now he's in deeper shit than before LymphocyteLover Feb 2022 #11
Why hasn't TFG ever been held accountable for any of his criminal behavior his entire life? RockRaven Feb 2022 #5
Why hasn't Trump been charged with anything? blueinredohio Feb 2022 #6
I bet he's worried. L. Coyote Feb 2022 #10
God I hope that is the epitaph on his political career LymphocyteLover Feb 2022 #14
that's what the article is about-- for the old stuff, it's because of Bill Barr LymphocyteLover Feb 2022 #12
AG problems. Continuing AG problems. librechik Feb 2022 #20
Yeah, I feel your pain. I really hope that Garland steps up. LymphocyteLover Feb 2022 #21

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
2. Mueller wasn't an independent special prosecutor. Perhaps that needs to be fixed.
Sat Feb 12, 2022, 01:31 PM
Feb 2022

Ken Starr brought down the special prosecutor law by turning it into a political tool to carry out his Clinton inquisition. Time to make sure any inquiry by DoJ of politicians are both independent and apolitical at the same time.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
3. It would be so much easier to go for obstruction if Mueller had found trump responsible for
Sat Feb 12, 2022, 01:34 PM
Feb 2022

collusion/cooperating/conspiring/whateveryouwanttocallit with the Russians.

Unfortunately, Mueller stated over 20 times in his so-called "report" that there was insufficient evidence that trump or his campaign conspired with the Russians. Mueller even bent himself into a pretzel by saying that trump Jr and others -- at the infamous trump tower meeting -- were too stupid to possess the requisite intent to break the law.

After that, the chances of getting a conviction was close to zero. What might have led to prosecution is if Mueller had said 20 times "while we find no evidence of wrongdoing, the MFer trump was obscuring the evidence by obstructing justice at every turn." He didn't.

LymphocyteLover

(5,684 posts)
15. what do you mean-- it took forever to get the unredacted Mueller Report because of him
Sat Feb 12, 2022, 03:25 PM
Feb 2022

Also Barr wrote a memo that greatly distorted the Mueller report and set the perception of the investigation results, that they found nothing.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
16. Mueller said 20+ times that there was no evidence trump or campaign conspired with Russians.
Sat Feb 12, 2022, 04:07 PM
Feb 2022
That was pretty much the end as far as indicting trump, with or without a formal rule on charging a sitting Prez.


Barr is a POS, but his letter of March 24, 2019 was reasonably factual.

Beginning top of page 2, Barr said:

Russian Interference in the 2016 U.S. Presidential Election.

"The Special Counsel's report is divided into two parts. The first describes the results of the Special Counsel's investigation into Russia's interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election. The report outlines the Russian effort to influence the election and documents crimes committed by persons associated with the Russian government in connection with those efforts. The report further explains that a primary consideration for the Special Counsel's investigation was whether any Americans – including individuals associated with the Trump campaign – joined the Russian conspiracies to influence the election, which would be a federal crime. The Special Counsel's investigation did not find that the Trump campaign or anyone associated with it conspired or coordinated with Russia in its efforts to influence the 2016 U.S. presidential election. As the report states: “[T]he investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.”"

Whether we believe it or not, Mueller said over 20 times in his report that his investigation found NO EVIDENCE trump or his campaign conspired with Ruskies. A law student could have defended trump with those comments.


Beginning top of page 3, Barr said:

Obstruction of Justice.

"The report's second part addresses a number of actions by the President – most of which have been the subject of public reporting – that the Special Counsel investigated as potentially raising obstruction-of-justice concerns. After making a “thorough factual investigation” into these matters, the Special Counsel considered whether to evaluate the conduct under Department standards governing prosecution and declination decisions but ultimately determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment. The Special Counsel therefore did not draw a conclusion - one way or the other – as to whether the examined conduct constituted obstruction. Instead, for each of the relevant actions investigated, the report sets out evidence on both sides of the question and leaves unresolved what the Special Counsel views as “difficult issues” of law and fact concerning whether the President's actions and intent could be viewed as obstruction. The Special Counsel states that “while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him."

Whether we like it or not, that is what Mueller's wimpy report said.


From that point, Barr essentially stated that since there was no evidence of an underlying crime, obstruction would have been difficult to prove. Mueller would have done us a favor if he had said, "Hell, how do we know what trump did, the MFer was covering his tracks at every turn." But, Mueller didn't say that.


Beginning bottom of Page 3:

"In making this determination, we noted that the Special Counsel recognized that “the evidence does not establish that the President was involved in an underlying crime related to Russian election interference," and that, while not determinative, the absence of such evidence bears upon the President's intent with respect to obstruction. Generally speaking, to obtain and sustain an obstruction conviction, the government would need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a person, acting with corrupt intent, engaged in obstructive conduct with a sufficient nexus to a pending or contemplated proceeding. In cataloguing the President's actions, many of which took place in public view, the report identifies no actions that, in our judgment, constitute obstructive conduct, had a nexus to a pending or contemplated proceeding, and were done with corrupt intent, each of which, under the Department's principles of federal prosecution guiding charging decisions, would need to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to establish an obstruction-of-justice offense."
______________

Look, I despise trump. But I can't argue with Barr's assessment, although we [DUers] would have concluded differently.

I can't imagine any AG -- even one who despised trump -- would have tried to indict him after Mueller's wimpy report absolved him. I do think we would have had trump if Mueller had just added a report footnote to those 20+ times he absolved trump and his campaign. Mueller should have added something like "We couldn't find any evidence because the MFer obstructed justice."

Unfortunately, Mueller did not in his report, congressional testimony, or his news conference. So here we are.

LymphocyteLover

(5,684 posts)
17. Did you write all this or was it taken from somewhere? What a strange post.
Sat Feb 12, 2022, 11:30 PM
Feb 2022

In any case, I don't think you fairly summarize what Barr did in his memo or the actual Mueller report.

The report and investigation could have gone further, and was overly cautious, but Mueller clearly was constrained by the worry of getting fired.

The obstruction was clearly what kept the criminal conspiracy from being uncovered!

And Mueller SHOWED obstruction-- the problem is Mueller was constrained by the OLC memo on indicting a president and was basically handing it to the Dems to do with what they would, presumably impeach, but there were other concerns unfortunately.

And most importantly, Barr totally misrepresented the nature of the Mueller findings!

CHRIST-- I CAN'T BELIEVE I AM ARGUING ABOUT THIS HERE AT DU.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
18. Quotes come from Barr's relatively short memo, which you obviously haven't read.
Sat Feb 12, 2022, 11:37 PM
Feb 2022

Read it and the Report, then come back.

LymphocyteLover

(5,684 posts)
19. I did. Obviously the quotes come from his memo. I meant the whole thing
Sun Feb 13, 2022, 09:48 AM
Feb 2022

was so carefully formatted, it was odd. And it's even more odd that you buy Barr's blatantly dishonest spin.

I mean, just this part--
"Generally speaking, to obtain and sustain an obstruction conviction, the government would need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a person, acting with corrupt intent, engaged in obstructive conduct with a sufficient nexus to a pending or contemplated proceeding."

MUELLER CLEARLY DID DO THAT.

LymphocyteLover

(5,684 posts)
11. It's a good theory with a lot of evidence but now he's in deeper shit than before
Sat Feb 12, 2022, 03:22 PM
Feb 2022

However, if we don't see any actual criminal charges brought against him in the next 6 months or so, it seems like he's immune for whatever reason, as awful and crooked as he is.

RockRaven

(15,151 posts)
5. Why hasn't TFG ever been held accountable for any of his criminal behavior his entire life?
Sat Feb 12, 2022, 02:05 PM
Feb 2022

This particular injustice is one piece of an enormous mosaic of injustices.

LymphocyteLover

(5,684 posts)
12. that's what the article is about-- for the old stuff, it's because of Bill Barr
Sat Feb 12, 2022, 03:23 PM
Feb 2022

we'll see if any of the new stuff sticks

librechik

(30,681 posts)
20. AG problems. Continuing AG problems.
Sun Feb 13, 2022, 10:02 AM
Feb 2022

This probably sounds crazy at this point but I wish Biden had appointed Harris AG and somebody like Alex Padilla as vice. Garland was a sentimental bad pick worse than Mueller's appointment.

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