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CNN: Putin willing to negotiate! (Original Post) Tomconroy Feb 2022 OP
Putin wants Russia in NATO this has all been a Putin game. sarcasmo Feb 2022 #1
If they become a democracy, that's great. Uncle Joe Feb 2022 #3
If Russia becomes a democracy, NATO doesn't need to exist anymore. lagomorph777 Feb 2022 #16
"An attack against one being an attack against all" Uncle Joe Feb 2022 #20
Sounds like a page from the Joe Manchin playbook... Fiendish Thingy Feb 2022 #2
+1 Claustrum Feb 2022 #10
right ?! uponit7771 Feb 2022 #11
Security guarantees for European Russia against China? roamer65 Feb 2022 #4
Pootie-Poot, if you want to negotiate, you gotta offer something in return. C_U_L8R Feb 2022 #5
A sociopathic bully threatening to blow up the world to get his way. Irish_Dem Feb 2022 #6
This is NOT a "blink." This is a distraction! nt Samrob Feb 2022 #7
Wrong...it is a blink. Demsrule86 Feb 2022 #25
I hope you are correct. nt Samrob Feb 2022 #27
It is just a feeling...I hope I am right also. Demsrule86 Feb 2022 #28
Where is the love . . Lovie777 Feb 2022 #8
I call BS! BigmanPigman Feb 2022 #9
Tiny little bully cries "Uncle" when his B.S. is exposed? Generic Brad Feb 2022 #12
Of course he does WillUSAF Feb 2022 #13
His behavior up to this point contradicts your claim. lagomorph777 Feb 2022 #17
Actually, what he doesn't want relayerbob Feb 2022 #19
That won't happen...Putin gets no say in who joins NATO. Demsrule86 Feb 2022 #24
true...but WillUSAF Feb 2022 #29
I don't see any signs of buckling. Demsrule86 Feb 2022 #31
More likely, reality is setting in relayerbob Feb 2022 #14
Great points relayerbob! Too bad our media doesn't do as good a job PortTack Feb 2022 #15
Thanks and def why I love it here, also relayerbob Feb 2022 #18
Welcome!! Such a knowledgeable post PortTack Feb 2022 #21
It also occurred to me that Xi may have given support for not expanding NATO relayerbob Feb 2022 #26
Excellent summary,. Demsrule86 Feb 2022 #32
Give him some useless face saving gesture...don't blink. And let's move on. Demsrule86 Feb 2022 #22
NATO and Western governments said they had seen no signs of de-escalation dalton99a Feb 2022 #23
This is all posturing. After Napoleon and Hitler, NO ONE considers invading Russia from the west DFW Feb 2022 #30

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
16. If Russia becomes a democracy, NATO doesn't need to exist anymore.
Tue Feb 15, 2022, 12:31 PM
Feb 2022

If they don't, NATO can't admit Russia.

Uncle Joe

(58,524 posts)
20. "An attack against one being an attack against all"
Tue Feb 15, 2022, 12:55 PM
Feb 2022

is still a nice security blanket.

As for NATO's needs, the world is an ever evolving place.

Fiendish Thingy

(15,703 posts)
2. Sounds like a page from the Joe Manchin playbook...
Mon Feb 14, 2022, 08:13 PM
Feb 2022

“I’ve always been willing to negotiate!…I just won’t agree to anything other than total capitulation to my position…”

Claustrum

(4,846 posts)
10. +1
Mon Feb 14, 2022, 08:48 PM
Feb 2022

That's my first thought when I saw the story. Though, I will add, it's a page from the republican playbook as well.

roamer65

(36,748 posts)
4. Security guarantees for European Russia against China?
Mon Feb 14, 2022, 08:17 PM
Feb 2022

Is that your worry, Pootie?



Tired of being Xi’s poodle?

Which you are, Pootie.

C_U_L8R

(45,035 posts)
5. Pootie-Poot, if you want to negotiate, you gotta offer something in return.
Mon Feb 14, 2022, 08:19 PM
Feb 2022

Your armored dick-wagging will get you nowhere.

Generic Brad

(14,276 posts)
12. Tiny little bully cries "Uncle" when his B.S. is exposed?
Mon Feb 14, 2022, 09:03 PM
Feb 2022

Nope. Not good enough.

First he needs a couple purple nurples, a few snakebites on his arm, an extra hard noogie, and an epic snuggie with his underpants pulled over his head from behind. Then we should maybe consider cutting him some slack - maybe.

He destabilized the world. He needs to learn how it feels first hand.

 

WillUSAF

(91 posts)
13. Of course he does
Mon Feb 14, 2022, 09:16 PM
Feb 2022

ultimately he wasn't going to do anything. He knew that the world would punish him seriously if he did anything. He will negotiate keeping Ukraine out of NATO. THat is his end goal. He doesn't want NATO missiles in his back yard.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
17. His behavior up to this point contradicts your claim.
Tue Feb 15, 2022, 12:34 PM
Feb 2022

He's still occupying part of Ukraine that he stole with a previous invasion.

But you've expressed his propaganda well. RT couldn't have done it better.

relayerbob

(6,561 posts)
19. Actually, what he doesn't want
Tue Feb 15, 2022, 12:36 PM
Feb 2022

Is a functioning democracy on his doorsteps. He’s not worried about missiles, he knows we’re not going to invade Russia.

Demsrule86

(68,788 posts)
24. That won't happen...Putin gets no say in who joins NATO.
Tue Feb 15, 2022, 01:00 PM
Feb 2022

Stand up to bullies...Biden will give him some facing gesture, but I would be willing to bet that is all.

 

WillUSAF

(91 posts)
29. true...but
Thu Feb 17, 2022, 04:29 AM
Feb 2022

I'm thinking that the EU countries that are involved will buckle to some of his demands. I do think that some European countries are terrified by him (which is a mistake).

relayerbob

(6,561 posts)
14. More likely, reality is setting in
Mon Feb 14, 2022, 09:40 PM
Feb 2022

Putin's really got far more opportunities to fail than he does to succeed. And the risks are very high to him, personally, if he does fail. Reasonable chance that if this goes south, he ends up in a ditch with a bullet in his head. And if he does win, what will he really gain? A nearly constant state of civil unrest and a HUGE drain on his ecnonomy and military strength. So, yeah, time to talk, Vladdy.

1 - NATO is more unified now than it has been since the end of the Cold War, so that part of the plan has failed miserably.
2 - Finland is right at the edge of joining NATO, and Sweden is also making noises about joining NATO. An invasion will push both over the edge, and Item 1 even more of an issue. NATO will be stronger than ever and closer than ever.
3 - Belarus could well collapse, since the opposition would almost certainly start getting weapons from Lithuania and Ukraine, and their leader is pretty universally hated and hanging on by a thread. That could result in not only losing in Ukraine, but losing Belarus also.
4 - Ukraine has new anti-ship (and anti-land) cruise missiles they claimed would be deployed in the spring, but may well have enough now to cause a lot of damage to things like amphibious landing ships.
5 - Ukraine also has a good number of soviet era AA missiles, not counting the Stingers etc we've sent. Putin's prestige will be seriously hit if he's losing ships and planes at an unexpected rate (which is likely). His armor will be taking major hits and Ukraine will likely blow most of the bridges, slowing the Russians down and creating bottlenecks to fire Javelins into.
6 - They have no idea of what Ukraine's cyber abilities really are, but some of the cyber attacks in the West have emanated from Ukraine as well as Russia. You can be sure they'll be getting US/Western help, if not direct US involvement using Ukrainian cyberspace without making it clear that we are involved. There already are active hacker groups in Belarus that have fouled up the train system, but intentionally went light to prevent causing problems with the civilian population.
7 - Then there are the sanctions, which are what people are talking about, because that will cost Russia billions and is easy for most people to understand.
8 - Putin's advisors all know an attack on Ukraine will destroy their honor and leave them as outcasts for at least a generation or more. Putin may not give a shit, but there will be those who will care a lot. They also know that Putin has enriched himself on the backs of the Russian people, meaning they have strong political leverage over him, if the military or some other entiry chooses to take him and his cronies out. Lots of free money to be had once Putin is dead. Lots of opportunity to declare him a corrupt and evil leader who has led the country into a ditch.
9 - Russia has inadequate forces deployed to hold all of Ukraine. They may well be able to overrun their defenses, but holdng on to their prize will be very tough. This isn't Afghanistan, and they are motivated and recall what the Russians have done to them in the past, in particular in the 1930s. They also used Ukraine as cannon fodder in WW2, to gain time to make their stands in Stalingrad and elsewhere. The Ukrainians really have little reason to like the Russians, and seem quite motivated to fight to the bitter end. They are arming their civilians very rapidly, and we may well not know how many flights (and trucks and trains) have gone into Ukraine loaded up with weapons. The number of US flights in have been reported inconsistently, and only in a few cases has their been any specific indication of what has been sent beyond generic accounts of Javelins, Stingers, artillery rounds and small arms/ammo (not counting what other countries have delivered).
10 - They may well fly their planes to Romania or Poland, meanging Russia either can't attack them or will have to risk real war with NATO to get to them. After the inital waves are over , they could go back in to bases in the western part of the country and start causing major trouble.
11 - And then there are the nukes that went missing at the end of the USSR. While unlikely, they may well have a few of those, or other nasty surprises, stashed away, and if faced with the existential threat of being annihilated, would have little reason to hold back. Remember that Ukraine was one of the industrial bastions of the Soviet Union, and they retained an enormous amount of technical know-how and industrial capacity. They operate 15 nuclear reactors. Also, remember that centrifuges are only required for separating U235 from U238, and inefficient process producing lower grade weapons. Plutonium can be removed chemically and makes much better fissile material. They could have been processing material for the last eight years with virutally no one knowing about it. They know this. So, while not being discussed publicly, this does indeed represent a (probably small) likelihood of a threat.


PortTack

(32,820 posts)
15. Great points relayerbob! Too bad our media doesn't do as good a job
Tue Feb 15, 2022, 12:28 PM
Feb 2022

This is why I always read the comments on DU. We have so many smart smart ppl we can learn from

relayerbob

(6,561 posts)
26. It also occurred to me that Xi may have given support for not expanding NATO
Tue Feb 15, 2022, 01:22 PM
Feb 2022

But told Putin he was on his own if he invades Ukraine.

dalton99a

(81,700 posts)
23. NATO and Western governments said they had seen no signs of de-escalation
Tue Feb 15, 2022, 12:58 PM
Feb 2022
NATO and Western governments said they had seen no signs of de-escalation yet Tuesday, despite the Russian Defense Ministry’s announcement that it is pulling back forces from maneuvers that had heightened concerns about an invasion. Russia gave no details on where the troops were pulling back from, or how many.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-russia-london-europe-moscow-b158645ccf222e05aede08e26b9f62c1

DFW

(54,502 posts)
30. This is all posturing. After Napoleon and Hitler, NO ONE considers invading Russia from the west
Thu Feb 17, 2022, 04:39 AM
Feb 2022

The only territorial threat to Putin is if China is eyeing some of the vast natural resources in Siberia, and the western border with Ukraine is hardly the place to start defending against that.

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