I am not following closely the Olympics, but about that 15yo Russian skater charged with doping...

[Stinky The Clown]

... what is the general consensus? Should she be banned? Should her earlier gold be forfeited? I have some thoughts.

My wife was cruising the TV this morning and landed on NBC showing this woman just starting her skate. I was in the kitchen getting coffee and stayed to watch her. She made a few minor faults and still gets a nice high score that put her in first place. I see that she's a cute little pixie type that the media so love to gush over. And poor them. Gushing denied cuz doping Russians. Again. And again and again.

Anyway, first, she's 15. A 15 year old could well know and decide to participate in a doping effort. But . . . . .

. . . . I look at her coach and the Russian skating commune or whatever they call it. I think her coach should be banned from skating. To think she didn't know is preposterous. I am sure I will be schooled on why this can't be done. Save your breath, I am almost certain it would be so difficult as to make it not worth the time and effort. But still, that SHOULD be done, even if it can't actually be so.

. . . . I am disgusted by the entire governing body of the Olympics. I started losing faith when they let pros compete. It was supposedly to counter Russians. WELL HOW ABOUT YOU STOP THE CHEATERS INSTEAD OF LEGALIZING THE CHEATING!!!!! Enforce the rules. Hell, make the rules tougher. Be a drug free amateur or you're out. Period. The IOC is a big business. The cost to host the games is an astronomically high amount of money that winds up being a huge waste.

How about we build a summer venue and a winter venue and be done with it?

And keep the media in check. No more little pixie skaters and hero hockey players singled out for the spotlight based on looks.

And tell Savannah Guthrie to just shut the fuck up.

But anyway, sorry about the rant. What are your thoughts about the skater?

[MiniMe]

1. I feel bad for the kid, she is just 15. But there is a reason that Russia competes under ROC

(Russian Olympic Committee) and it is the same reason that is going on now. Russia tends to cheat with doping. So while I feel bad for her, I feel worse for the other skaters.

[dv421]

2. There have been a few threads on this

I posted my view in [link:https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216357058#post25| as a former athlete who has had to deal with testing and the politics involved.

But in summary, I think the COA was wrong to reinstate her based on country and coach history.

[Irish_Dem]

3. If she is not banned, Russia will keep drugging children.

Russia targets children on purpose because they are a protected class and get reprimands.

[ProfessorGAC]

4. Out For This Olympiad

No long term punishment.

[LisaL]

6. 15-16 is the peak age for female figure skaters.

Chances of a 15-year-old making it to the next Olympics are slim to none. I am for raising the age to be able to participate in Olympics. Of course we then will have to forget about watching quadruple jumps. But the intense training these young girls are subjected to are very damaging to the body.

[ProfessorGAC]

11. I'm Including...

...all the events, not just this Olympics.
Besides, Nancy Kerrigan was 23 & Oksana Baiul was nearly 17 when they were in the Olympics.
Peggy Fleming was 16 for her first games. She finished 6th. 4 years later, at 20, she won gold.
I don't take as fact that the prime ends at 18.

[LisaL]

14. Back then they didn't do quad jumps.

NT

[ProfessorGAC]

16. Because They Weren't Using PEDs

Also, that's a specious argument.
Those jumps require leaping ability. World class high jumpers for both men & women peak in their mid to late 20s.
Leaping ability does not begin to diminish in one's teens.
In my junior year to high school, my standing vertical leap was 42+ inches. I was 16.
The year after I graduated college, now 20, it was 44 inches. And, I wasn't training 6-8 hours a day.
You're out over your skis on this topic. Moving the goal line doesn't change that.

[LisaL]

21. The drug is not going to make someone to jump quads.

In other words, you can't take it and expect to start jumping quads. I don't know why you think you know so much on this topic.


"Even back at the 2014 Sochi Olympics, it was clear that the women’s figure skaters being called to compete were getting younger and younger each year, especially in countries like Russia. So…why is this happening?

Part of it comes down to the strain of difficult competitive jumps like triple axels and quads combined with puberty changing an athlete’s center of gravity and ability to withstand the physical stress."

https://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/celebs/a38976411/womens-figure-skating-ages-younger/

[phylny]

26. Leaping ability, as you call it, to do a quad or even a triple axle

Diminishes in female athletes once they go through puberty and their hips widen. There’s a reason that even some of the triple jumps were difficult for females to do. Puberty changes everything.

[unitedwethrive]

5. Whenever there is cheating on such a large scale, there will be innocent victims.

I too feel badly for her, but it is the cost of getting caught. It happens in many other areas of life as well.

[2naSalit]

7. Started losing my interest in these events...

About the same time as you. Chris Evert to be specific.

Anyway, I think this issue illustrates that the Olympics, as we've known them, are about to collapse under their own weight due to the rampant corruption.

I think that upcoming world events will make competitive sports a thing of the past, as most currently practiced luxuries will, in most places due to the cost of the whole thing.

[Deuce]

8. NYT is saying she had a couple of other substances in her test that could be heart treatments...

[mcar]

9. She should not be allowed to skate

She broke the rules. Period. Her age is irrelevant WRT the rule, otherwise it sets a double standard that the Russians will exploit (and are exploiting).

What about all the other figure skaters who have worked their tails off to get there, cleanly? Now the top performers will have to wait to get their medals - no ceremony, nothing.

That said, she is 15 and if her gorgon of a coach or other adults doped her without her knowledge, they should be banned from the Olympics for life and prosecuted.

[rockfordfile]

10. She should've been banned.

[onecaliberal]

12. She should have been banned from these games as well as her doping country

[GoCubsGo]

25. Her doping country IS banned.

Which is why she and others are competing under the "Russian Olympic Committee (ROC)" banner. It's been this way since they were exposed at the Sochi Olympics, and includes the summer games. It's disgusting that they're being allowed to skirt the ban this way.

[onecaliberal]

32. They're banned from carrying a flag and playing the anthem. Big deterrence wasn't it. Not.

Banned means you don't compete, you know like our girl for the summer Olympics.

Until banned means banned. This is what we're getting. Doping while training is an unfair advantage and those caught doing it should be banned in the traditional sense of the word.

[Johnny2X2X]

13. She has no control

She's part of the Russian doping machine, she probably has no idea what they're putting in her body. Her trainer and team docs give her shots, they control her diet, they control everything she puts in her body. So it's no wonder she's surprised.

She should not be competing, more than that the entire Russian Olympic Committee should not be there, they are cheaters, every one of them.

[onecaliberal]

33. What do you mean, she accidentally took her grandfather's meds. That's the story they're telling.

[Hekate]

15. Coach Eteri has a long record of doping her young athletes. She should be banned for life.

My previous OP
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216355388

Link to article inside
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/winter-olympics/could-doping-spell-the-end-for-russian-skating-prodigy-kamila-valieva/ar-AATFGzN?ocid=entnewsntp

[Sogo]

17. I've soured on the whole skating competition because of this.

It doesn't matter if she does a hundred quads in her program, it's a fraud.

"Irreparable harm" if she's banned? What about the other skaters whose careers are "irreparably harmed" because they have to skate against (and lose to) a fraudulently manufactured winner?

I won't be watching. There would be no satisfaction in watching her "win."

[MagickMuffin]

18. Russia should be banned after all they can't even compete using their country name

Funny thing is her story keeps changing. Ya know like trying to hide the facts.

First it was a mix up with grandpa's heart medication, then the narrative changed to she drank water after her Grandpa.


She is selfish spoiled brat.

Don't want to cause her any Irreparable Harm. Unfortunately, that term isn't applied to all skaters. Especially the ones who medal. They will be denied the opportunity to stand on the podium to receive their medals, if Doper girl is awarded a medal.


She has already denied the Team Event medalists that opportunity.

[Greybnk48]

19. Johnny Weir said he knew the rules practically verbatum as a 13 year old.

He said everyone does, even in Russia. He has spent time in that country himself. The notion that this 15 y/o girl was clueless about the drug they were giving her to qualify is an unbelievable stretch of the truth.

I believe Johnny Weir. He knows.

The Russians have always been cheaters and should be banned from the olympics for several years. The clean athletes can compete for another country.

[hippywife]

20. My thoughts are...

the powers that be will do whatever in the hell they fucking want, regardless of what's fair, moral or ethical; there's very little anyone can do to stop them and they know that, so WTF. This is the way it is on so many levels in both government and the private sector, locally, nationally and globally. I just keep getting mad about all of it and it threatens to send me spiraling back to a place I don't want to be.

[Amishman]

22. banned, no medals

IOC should never have let her complete at all, but the IOC is a highly corrupt mess and probably was bribed.

[WarGamer]

23. IDK... the test was administered at the Russian Nationals...

Later, she tested CLEAN at the European Championship and CLEAN at the Olympics.




I'd be for SOME kind of sanction but NOT the sports version of "Life in Prison".

[GoCubsGo]

24. She and the rest of her team shouldn't have even been there in the first place.

And, by her team, I mean anyone competing under the "ROC" banner. The Russians are currently banned from competing because of their state-sponsored doping program. Why ban them if you're just going to let them back in under a pseudonym? The whole Olympics are becoming a joke. If you're going to ban a country, then fucking ban ALL of them. The more you make exceptions, the more opportunities you give the cheaters to find loopholes to exploit. At this point, the Russians need to be banned permanently, or for at least the next 25 years. Enough, already.

I agree that the media is out of control, particularly when it comes to figure skating. However, I'm not sure of whom these "hero hockey players" you speak. I haven't seen a lot of hockey. If you talking about the US Women's team, there ain't an unattractive one in the lot, and I doubt their looks are why they're being spotlighted. Lots of accomplished players on that team. Many of them are among the best in the world. I'm thrilled that they're getting a lot of attention.

Yes, Savannah Guthrie needs to shut the fuck up. So do a whole bunch of others.

[beaglelover]

27. she should have withdrawn from the competition. But now the fucker is in first place after the

short program. If she medals, there won't be a medal ceremony at the Olympics so the other 2 skaters who medal are denied one of the greatest experiences of their lives. she really is a selfish person to keep competing under this cloud.

[LisaL]

28. There is a good chance the other two are going to be Russian skaters.

All three are trained by the same coach. Now tell me how concerned you are about the other two not being able to have a ceremony.

[beaglelover]

29. So what. There was a chance it could have been skaters from other countries.

This miserable human should have withdrawn from the competition if she had any class, which she does not. The IOC allowing her to compete is a joke. Taints this and all future Olympic competitions.

[LisaL]

30. IOC didn't exactly want to allow her to compete.

A panel of three judges decided she should be allowed to compete. One of those judges was an American.

[beaglelover]

31. Well those judges are pieces of shit, especially the American judge.