So @NYPD deleted this before I could ask if they arrested the babies as accessories after the fact

[Celerity]

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[childfreebychoice]

1. Shoplifting is a crime, leading to higher prices for the rest of us. nt

[WhiskeyGrinder]

2. .

[The point, of course, is not that shoplifting isn’t a legit charge, or that it should be condoned — it’s that posing for “we got 12 people stealing formula and diapers” victory photo is deeply pathetic.]

[stopdiggin]

10. good point. and probably why they took the post down. -(nt)-

[Sherman A1]

18. To be resold likely by an organized theft ring

This is not some desperate mother trying to feed and cloth their child.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

20. Who are they selling to, do you think?

[Sherman A1]

22. Formula and diapers have been shoplifting targets for decades

Along with deodorant, batteries, liquor, meat, razors, Tide and and cigarettes. They are stolen by a theft ring, resold to small rather unscrupulous merchants and trafficked on the black market.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

25. right but who uses them in the end

[Sherman A1]

37. One assumes that it would be mothers with children of the appropriate age group

That however does not justify the operation of organized theft rings that steal these items causing losses to the stores.

I'm not sure what you are driving at perhaps you could explain better.

[inthewind21]

46. Not sure

What you are either.

[Sherman A1]

51. So I can only assume that you support theft from retail stores?

[70sEraVet]

29. But they arrested 12 people!

$1800 divided by 12 = $150.00!
This doesn't indicate a big black-market operation -- sounds more like 12 poor mothers.

[stopdiggin]

75. at $150 per incident?

I coming at this from the opposite direction. That sounds like more than a little 'impulse' pilfering. You gotta' be wearing some real baggy pants ...

[bearsfootball516]

5. Nobody is saying that shoplifting is good.

But when what's being shoplifted is diapers and formula, that's a pretty clear sign that there's a bigger problem here.

[NJCher]

8. At Newark Penn station

Men are living in the bathroom stalls. I learned this yesterday from a friend who took the train from Newark to Philadelphia. He said that if you want to use the restroom you have to knock on the door and the person vacates the stall for you to use the bathroom.

Upon leaving, the person resumes living in the bathroom stall.

[Sherman A1]

21. No, it is a sign of an organized theft ring

Nothing more.

[ck4829]

28. What makes it "nothing more"?

Single cause fallacy right there.

[Sherman A1]

39. Why?

It is theft and nothing more than theft.

[wellst0nev0ter]

62. Addresses of the suspects were at a homeless shelter

[Sherman A1]

65. That doesn't mean they were not recruited by a shoplifting ring

That would be precisely the folks who would be targeted to do the stealing by them.

[wellst0nev0ter]

67. So punish the exploited

[Sherman A1]

68. They are the ones who stole the product

Are you indicating they don’t understand right from wrong?

Do you support stealing or shoplifting?

[wellst0nev0ter]

71. Am I Objectively Pro-Saddam?

I'm saying these people need help, not prison.

It'll cost a lot more to put up the suspects in Riker's Island than what those items cost.

[Sherman A1]

73. If they didn't want to go to jail perhaps not stealing would be a better option?

[gab13by13]

4. My college professor back in 1969

taught me that when poor people shoplift they are called thieves, but when rich people shoplift they are called kleptomaniacs.

[ashredux]

7. Bingo!

[Ferrets are Cool]

16. Bingo!!!

[ck4829]

17. The vocabulary has expanded for all the things they do too

Kleptomaniacs, job creators, savvy businesspeople, they're just smart and know the loopholes

[uponit7771]

56. +1

[stopdiggin]

9. baby products are a target (in part)

because they are readily re-marketable. Formula has been a reliable standby for years.
(and, yes - that does say something about where we're at as a society. probably not good.)

[oldsoftie]

12. And NOBODY is paying attention to that fact!! EASILY sold items on the black market

Razor blades used to be another one. Now those are usually locked up. All expensive items

[WhiskeyGrinder]

11. PrOtEcTiNg AnD sErViNg!!111!!11!!1!!!!!

[brooklynite]

13. Taking baby formula and diapers doesn't indicate need...

...it indicates knowledge of a salable product.

[Sherman A1]

19. Precisely

And it is a big problem for retailers.

[Hortensis]

33. Right. These are standard black market items.

[George II]

38. Exactly. And who gives their babies Mucinex? It will kill them. This looks like a black market ring.

[haele]

14. It's pathetic, but so Is the fact that baby formula and diapers are too expensive

Ten years ago, when kidlet and SIL were starting out with oldest grandchild and living with us, we bought the diapers and formula because living with us, she couldn't get WIC.
It was f'n expensive at the commissary, which was at least half the cost of even Walmart or Food for Less, if you wanted quality formula that wouldn't be spit up or diapers that wouldn't leak over everything before you could pull over to change the baby if you were going somewhere.
About $70 a month then at the commissary. Now, it's twice that. And from what I hear, the WIC allotment tends to run a week short on months, so poor parents have to keep a can of formula or bag of diapers on hand to make it to the next month, which might be an extra $50 they don't have until the baby is weaned and potty trained.
But at the swap meet, or "vendor on the corner", a parent might be able to find a reseller selling bag of diapers and can of formula for $5 - $10 each, no questions asked. This is where the shoplifters are selling their loot.

It's recently had a gang break into a church food pantry and what they took was diapers, formula, baby food and fresh produce. Guarantee this theft was going to go in the back of a van to cruise through poor neighborhoods and the working homeless encampments and "resell" to those who can't afford to get it at a grocery store.
Still, stealing from a food pantry is low.

These shoplifting gangs aren't Robin Hoods, because they are stealing to make profit off the poor and reduce inventory for the working class as they go along. They just don't.make as much profit as the big corporations do.

Haele

[cannabis_flower]

26. I was very lucky with my daughter.

She was petite. The small size diapers have more in the package than the medium. The large have even less. My daughter was in the small size for a long time. And when she was about 6 months old. I was contacted by a market research company for a diaper study. I was given 3 huge boxes of diapers and was supposed to report on how well they worked. There were a lot left over so I didn’t have to buy diapers for about 6 months.

[treestar]

15. We need to work toward the society we want

not just blame cops for not stopping law enforcement where we feel it is not necessary.

It's up to us to vote in the right people. And not stay home out of cynicism or because we didn't get all we want. And stay on top of the legislators, rather than just say I voted and that's all I have to do.

[Farmer-Rick]

23. Wow, that's worth $1,800?

Is it a typo, or they're not showing it all? That's one months worth for me back when I had 2 kids in diapers. That's only 5 boxes of diapers.

OMG, no wonder people can't afford to have kids. No wonder the birth rate is plummetting. And now the Christian Taliban wants to force women to carry unwanted fetuses that they can't afford to keep.

And cops are busily killing and beating black people and arresting people for one month's worth of baby needs. But they are happily ignoring mobsters and Nazis. Their crime solving statistics have plummeted and they are busy chasing diaper shoplifters.

I understand shoplifting is bad but you need 3 cops and a pat on the back for diaper shoplifters?

We are seeing more and more of this because capitalism is sick and dying.

[70sEraVet]

31. Its a shame I don't have a heart to give to you, Farmer-Rick!

[Sherman A1]

42. If you were the Retailer that just lost that $1800 worth of merchandise

you might feel differently.

[inthewind21]

47. I doubt it

Then again life for me is not all about money and damn everything and everybody else.

[Sherman A1]

50. Nice to know you are so well off

But not are as comfortable as you appear to indicate that they can ignore the loss of that amount of goods or money.

[Farmer-Rick]

55. Geez, there is so much wrong with assuming the chain store runs like

A mom and pop operation.

The corporation makes a calculated risk by allowing people to pick up and carry their own shopping items in a store the size of an aircraft carrier. There is a reason the fancy stores and expensive jewelry stores lock up things and provide sales staff. Because that guarantees practically no loss. It's more cost effective with cheap items to let customers handle it themselves, push the responsibility and work on to the customer. The store doesn't have to pay for workers and loss thru shoplifting is added into your price. Their huge size guarantees they can never have enough security staff to stop losses and that's calculated in too. They could just provide abundant staff like they use to but they don't want to pay for labor. And if you think you're getting the cheap prices because of the stores labor savings think again. Nothing has changed in stores after COVID yet prices are up.

They have insurance for large losses. So, they really didn't lose $1800.00. When I worked for a big named grocery store we would routinely write off 10 percent of stock due to spoilage, damage and expiration. I doubt the big chain store lost any money. Even diapers have expiration dates.

And why should a parent have to pay so much to care for their children. It's crazy. When corporations are making huge profits, the customer still has to pay the equivalent of a poor person's monthly salary. This is capitalism gone crazy.

Do you want a shrinking, older population? Well keep doing this. Do you want women to be so stressed out they can't feed their children? Just keep jacking up prices. Do you want to just use coercive methods like stopping abortions and jail time so your population starts popping out children again? Seems like a really stupid idea to me, when you could just control and regulate prices.

[Sherman A1]

59. I did 43 years in retail grocery for a chain

and your assumptions are interesting, however not really correct.

[wellst0nev0ter]

63. You didn't know?

[Sherman A1]

64. Yes, in fact I do know, however that isn't the point being discussed

In the OP.

[wellst0nev0ter]

69. Police was making a big deal over a mickey mouse shoplifting bust

Showing how the carceral state inefficiently targets the poor is very much part of the discussion.

[Sherman A1]

70. Wage theft still isn't the point of the OP

If you want to discuss wage theft perhaps a separate OP would make more sense.

[wellst0nev0ter]

72. Just say you don't want to discuss it

No need to dictate the discourse.

[Sherman A1]

74. I agree

Perhaps not trying to hijack the thread is an option as well?

[uponit7771]

57. +1

[KS Toronado]

24. Shoplifting would be almost nonexistent if minimum wage was $15

[Hortensis]

30. No. $15 isn't exactly wealth. Those who had to would.

Also, theft isn't all about desperation. The income range where most people inclined to theft get too satisfied to bother, and it doesn't fit their image of "people like us" is much higher and allows a good amount of discretionary income.

[George II]

34. A number of rich people over the years have been arrested for shoplifting in NYC....

$15 minimum wage isn't the cure all for all the ills of society.

[Sherman A1]

41. I wouldn't count on that

[ck4829]

27. Sounds like stuff that *should* and *could* be provided for

That would eliminate the motive of shoplifters for these particular products.

[Hortensis]

36. There are always programs, public and private, that provide diapers

and baby food. Many organizations also help people get signed up for assistance programs.

[ck4829]

40. True, but I wonder how utilized they are

And if they were more utilized, would they suddenly feel a lot of strain?

[Hortensis]

44. :) A question, sure, but not these thieves' problem.

The usual pattern, of course, is that government assistance is underfunded in states controlled by conservative government, or at least significant areas of them.

Conservatives tend to distrust government and prefer to give through private charitable programs, especially churches, though, and red states tend to have a lot of those to take up some of the slack anyway.

[inthewind21]

48. And there in lies the problem

Most think well, there are many programs to help, just run out and grab them. Go try and get some of those benefits that are so abundant you speak of then get back to me on your success.

[Hortensis]

49. Maybe you should first find out that thieves couldn't find them,

even if they aren't as obviously available as the local supermarket and dollar stores they are managing to get to?

Before insisting thieves have no honest alternatives, we should know that's true. For those thieves.

It occurs to me that claiming that it's perfectly understandable for people in need to turn to theft is also an enormous insult to all the people who refuse to do that. Also, that endorsing shoplifting as long as you're poor is an extremist view, out on a distant limb from where compassion takes most Democrats -- which is to aid programs and restructuring the flow of wealth to greatly reduce income inequality.

Speaking of limbs, I'm going to go out on one here and assume that no deserving needy people have broken into your home to equalize the wealth because it's closer, and also much easier and safer, than hitting a commercial operation. When you think of it, why haven't they and when does that start?

[uponit7771]

58. THIS !!!! ☝🏾☝🏾☝🏾

[George II]

32. No background to the story, so I'm guessing the arrests were warranted. Hard to see but....

....not all the items on that table are diapers and baby wipes. Nor is that worth $1800.

Does "HatIsNotLiable" know for sure those items would not have been resold at gouging prices?

On top of that, the tweet mentions 12 people and 23 warrants - this certainly wasn't a case of poor parents unable to buy supplies for a baby.

[70sEraVet]

35. But it doesn't say that they arrested the 12 people all at one time, or all at the same place.

Like you say, no backstory.

[Hortensis]

43. Everyone on this thread knows shoplifting has become big crime. For profit.

Yet many posts insist on styling all these thieves of standard black market items as in desperate need and pretending it's all redressing society's inequities. How's that for "entitled" people? Entitled to steal. From others of course.

There's such a thing as balance. Extremism and grievance can turn what should be caring and compassion into something else entirely.

Extreme tolerance for crime -- in a nation where no one's starving and almost everyone can find programs to provide diapers -- is yet another manifestation of societal breakdown, a variation on anger at being asked to wear masks and losing elections.

And of course it's not just LW hearts bleeding for a whole nation of victims. RW grievance culture is even stronger and more ruthless, and more broadly radicalized. I'm only surprised they haven't called for the thieves to set the stores on fire as they run out.

[Archae]

45. This sort of thing has popped up before.

And in Green Bay I remember seeing an article about just such a theft ring.

They were *NOT* "desperate mothers needing supplies."

When they got caught, inside their van were many cans of formula, diapers and other baby stuff.

Also cocaine and meth.

They were shoplifting hundreds of $$$ worth, fencing their goods, and using the money to buy dope.

[Sherman A1]

52. Precisely

This ain’t about desperate mothers and babies.

[jmowreader]

53. There is a thriving black market in baby products

If you’re not paying for your supply, you can easily undercut store prices…which is attractive to new mothers of all income levels because baby products are expensive.

[Sherman A1]

66. Precisely

But it appears that some folks don’t understand that point.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

54. In the meantime, the cop on the far left in the deleted tweet has cost the city more than $300K

in settlements and has more than 35 allegations of misconduct.

https://www.50-a.org/officer/9049

[stopdiggin]

76. you keep veering off onto these tangents

are you implying the theft of goods should be ignored because - baby products - or bad police? Where exactly are we going with this line of reasoning?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

60. Another update: At least two of the people arrested are currently living in homeless shelters and

one is in their 60s. NYC estimates it costs about $1,750 to arrest someone on a misdemeanor, meaning NYPD spent more than $20,000 to arrest poor people over $1,800 of stuff. Protecting and serving!!!1!!11111!!!

[stopdiggin]

77. So, this is really an anti-enforcement, anti-police thread? -(nt)-

[IcyPeas]

61. If only we could put all TFGs crimes on a table. /nt