I had forgotten about Berger. Remember what he did?

[Mosby]

Link to tweet

[Blue Owl]

1. K and freaking R

Sounds like once again, the spoiled toddler is getting special treatment

[dalton99a]

2. Kick

etc.

[True Dough]

3. K&R for the double standard that cannot stand

Outrageous.

[L. Coyote]

34. Not to mention the level of hypocrisy. I haven't forgotten about Oliver North's conviction.

Link to tweet

[certainot]

52. as long as americans ignore the 1500 coordinated putin-manipulated radio stations that double

standard will continue to be the norm - for more than 30 years now

[madinmaryland]

4. Absofuckinglutely! LOCK HIM UP!

[Walleye]

5. I remember Fox News mentioning every time that Berger had smuggled out the documents in his pants

Anything to put a crude slant on it

[bullwinkle428]

6. Right-wingers went ON AND ON about "Sandy Burglar" for months, shortly

after the revelations about this.

[Hoyt]

7. If only they could show trump went to the National Archives and stuffed documents in his pants.

In any event, a fine and PROBATION ain't gonna make folks happy.

[Scrivener7]

12. A whopping fine (commensurate to this one, but accounting for inflation and the larger number

of documents) plus a strictly monitored probation, also commensurate and accounting for the larger number of documents, would be fine with me as the FIRST penalty against him. There are many others that should be raised against him.

It would be SOME indication that the Rule of Law is not gone forever.

[KS Toronado]

30. Did the National Archives have to call plumbers in after any trump visit?

[mrsadm]

44. Good question!

[fwvinson]

45. He stuffed them down the toilet. About like putting them down his pants.

[Hoyt]

46. According to some guy hawking a book. Will need evidence unfortunately.

[bigtree]

8. the Justice Dept. investigation into Berger's offense in Oct. 2003 was revealed in Jul. 2004

...with Berger pleading guilty to a misdemeanor in 2005.

I'm thinking it's a bit early to start calling out the Justice Dept. for inaction.

...but, yeah, Trump's is much worse, even though part of Berger's offense was (also?) lying about the docs he moved.

[gab13by13]

16. C'mon man, all of the stolen documents aren't even returned yet,

the FBI should be at Mar-el-Loco with a search warrant. It's being reported by Maggie Habberman that Trump waved the classified documents in front of Mar-el-Loco guests.

I believe one of the penalties for not preserving documents is either 2 or 3 years in prison, plus the fine.

[L. Coyote]

33. You are correct, and the instant gratification bullshit is really tiresome.

Those who are asking why there isn't an arrest yet are either poorly educated on how justice works or just knee jerking without thinking at all. They are also damaging and dragging down the very people they want to dispense justice, really a stupid response given the outcome desired.

[ShazzieB]

35. Thanks for pointing all of this out.

I get sooo tired of all the gloom and doom posts around here, about how Garland is (supposedly) worthless and the DOJ (supposedly) isn't doing a thing and never will, and TFG is never going to face any consequences and blah blah the sky is falling and nothing good will ever happen again blah blah. For a while, I made a lot of comments about how in actuality none of us has any idea what's going on, and how about we just hang on and wait and see what happens, instead of aking pronouncements about stuff that we actually have no earthly way of knowing.

But it gets exhausting after awhile, and sometimes I even catch myself starting to get sucked into the pessimism a little bit, and that's when I have to back away from the negative comments for a while, because giving up serves no freaking purpose and I just refuse to allow myself to do it. When a post like the one I'm responding to comes along, it's such a breath of fresh air.

Thank you for reminding me that I'm NOT nuts for feeling just a little bit hopeful. Thank you for reminding me that I'm NOT stupid for thinking it's too soon to throw in the towel, and that I'm NOT a blithering idiot for thinking that it's actually not over till it's over, and it's not even almost over yet.

Thanks, I needed that.

[L. Coyote]

37. You are welcome. There has always been this need to push back around here. Archive:

Towards a Taxonomy of Political Trolls OR Filling a Neologism Vacuum.

L. Coyote - Sep-18-07 - Response to Original message
3. WTF, is it Blemmings over the Cliff Week at DU again? Or Make Trolls Rejoice Day?

We are drowning once again in irrelevancies, old, worn-out isues, and deep doo doo while the War on Iraq wages on. Imagine being a soldier in Iraq ttoday and reading DU, or an Iraqi citizen in a refugee camp. And all you read is tasers, Kerry bashing ... If one more damn post on this starts, it will officially be over the cliff week.

=======================
Blemming, noun, a blog lemming, a nuisance person or thread calling attention to and enthusiastic about a distracting topic

Blemming, verb. to distract from an important issue with irrelevancies, to blemish or inundate a reasonable discussion with extraeous issues

Usage: Blemmings often lead the herd over a cliff to drown in a sea of irrelevancy.

Synonym: Online ratf*cker.

Gooooogling blemming: I was surprised to see a usage for "blemming" online. And one so suited to what I thought would be a truly fresh neologism. This from Jan 25, 2004. - http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=blemming

1. blemming
To be a nuisance to;
To call attention to;
To be enthusiastic about;
To bring on a trip .....

[dchill]

9. Who you gonna call? Merrick Garland!?

I ain't 'fraid of no GOPs!

[Botany]

10. The bush White House & company attacked Sandy Berger in order to distract from the fact that ...

.... he had warned the incoming administration about the dangers from al Qaeda, bin Laden, and the Taliban
which they blew off and we then got 9-11, Afghanistan, Iraq, ISIS, refugee crises ....

[TeamProg]

11. Sandy Berger took home a few 911 docs "to study" before a Senate hearing. He also RETURNED THEM - He

did NOT DESTROY, FLUSH, TEAR THEM UP OR EAT THEM.

[gab13by13]

17. So the moral of the story

is IOKIYAR.

[TeamProg]

19. I don't understand what you are saying.

Moral of the story for who?

[gab13by13]

22. It's OK if You're a Republican.

[TeamProg]

27. Ah.

[LymphocyteLover]

41. that was his excuse but not clear why he needed to sneak them out

which he surely know would illegal.

I do know that for years rightwingers used that incident as proof that somehow Bill Clinton was behind 9/11...

[louis-t]

43. They never proved he actually stole original documents.

He took copies where there were copies already in the file. I still believe one of his reasons for taking them was because they thought the bushes might hide them. They were already trying to blame Clinton for 9/11. I believe the documents he was interested in pertained to what Clinton had done to stop al-quaida.

[former9thward]

53. If that had been the case there would have been no criminal charge.

Security cameras showed him stuffing the documents in his underwear and socks. Later he returned the documents when he was called on it.

[TeamProg]

54. Yep, he returned them. Just as I said. Trump destroyed docs. n/t

[paleotn]

13. A damn good question!!

Lets hope it's coming. I have no reason to believe it's not, but I'm just as impatient for justice as the rest of you.

[spanone]

14. Sandy Berger

Sandy Berger-2003

Fifty-eight year old Sandy Berger, the former National Security Adviser under the Clinton Administration, illegally took classified documents from the National Archives on more than one occasion. During his visits to the Archives, it was determined that Berger folded the documents in his clothes, walked out of the National Archives building in Washington, D.C., and placed them under a nearby construction trailer for retrieval later on. Two years later Berger was sentenced to 100 hours of community service and probation and fined $50,000. He also also had to pay $6,905 for the administrative costs of his two-year probation. Berger also lost his security clearance and license to practice law.

https://www.archives.gov/research/recover/notable-thefts.html

[LetMyPeopleVote]

15. I remember Berger

Link to tweet

[Fiendish Thingy]

18. Berger's case was not a Presidential records act case.

The PRA has no enforcement mechanism, despite the act stating that a violation can carry up to 3 years in prison.

Some other laws may have been violated besides the PRA, we’ll have to see. Also, it should be noted that it took 18 mos. for the DOJ to investigate Berger, and almost another year after that before he plead guilty.

So the foaming at the mouth “WHERE THE HELL IS HIS PUNISHMENT!?!?” tweets are just a bit premature…

[reACTIONary]

21. +100 ...

... thanks for pointing out what should be obvious.

The other aspect of this is that the POTUS has ultimate authority to decide what is and is not classified. If he didn't consider them classified, then they were not. Regardless of what was rubber stamped on them.

[stopdiggin]

24. That is the opinion

(you're quite correct as it now stands) - but I'm not sure if this absolutely went to the mat, that opinion would be upheld.

Let's postulate say, top secret military weapons development - passed on directly by presidential hands? Not classified?

[LymphocyteLover]

40. I don't think is quite right. There's a process for declassifying documents. POTUS doesn't just

say it's declassified and it's done, and I really doubt he can do that after the fact of taking them away from their proper storage mechanism. It'd be one thing if he went through the process of declassifying and then took them, but another to just take them and later say he declassified them.

But I agree the legal process here will take a while and may not ever prosecute him.

[reACTIONary]

47. The process to classify and to declassify....

... is established by Presidential Executive Order 13526. Given that it is a dicta of the president, it seems that the president would have the final say in matters pertaining to classification or declassification. In fact, the president is designated in the order as the final arbitrator of any question regarding classification.

https://www.archives.gov/isoo/policy-documents/cnsi-eo.html#three

The executive order has a section pertaining to declassification. It does not prescribe a process so much as it lays out who has the authority to do so. Included is "a supervisory official of either the originator or his or her successor in function, if the supervisory official has original classification authority". The president is the supervisor of them all, and certainly does have original classification authority.

Also is included is a provision regarding information "that the need to protect such information may be outweighed by the public interest in disclosure of the information". "..in these cases the information should be declassified". This is to be done by an official who "will determine, as an exercise of discretion, whether the public interest in disclosure outweighs the damage to the national security that might reasonably be expected from disclosure" Note that this is a matter of discretion.

[LymphocyteLover]

55. that may be, but there is still a process and if he wanted to declassify docs

he needed to have done it ahead of time and not retroactively.

[reACTIONary]

56. It would have to be proven...

... that he didn't follow "the process", and since "the process" includes "at the discretion" of the president, that would be hard to do.

I don't think there is any way under the law to prosecute him for a violation of retaining or mismanaging classified material.

[LymphocyteLover]

57. I grant that it would be hard and probably no prosecutor would try it

but I think technically this is a violation. Of course the dude is a walking violation of everything decent, so not really surprising if he did this.

[reACTIONary]

58. You are right. nt

[stopdiggin]

23. thank you.

you'll of course gain no traction with the 'hair on fire' crowd - but thank you nonetheless for pointing out the circumstances are considerably different - and any analogy a poor one. That said, I think the revelations are damaging (pointing to an absolute disregard for anything resembling 'rules' or 'law' - and, equally concerning, 'intelligence') and I hope the media and Dems continue to run with it. But I have to think the "He should be in jail - right now!" folks are destined to be disappointed. Per usual.

[reACTIONary]

39. +100 nt

[XacerbatedDem]

51. At least they could take away his security clearance seeing as how he doesn't know how to handle

secure documents, and without a security clearance, could he still be elected president? If not, case closed on 2024.

[greatauntoftriplets]

20. I read something about that Sandy Berger episode recently.

Can't remember where, though. It made the comparison.

[world wide wally]

25. I get the point, but who's fault is that?

And we need to correct it!
Every Dem that gets a format should be pointing this out.

[calimary]

26. Hmmmmm... sounds like a MOST timely ask.

My Indivisible group is writing up our asks today for next week’s Call to Action email…

[George II]

28. He stashed them down there for more than a year. Had it not been for the Jan 6 Committee....

...we may never have known they were stolen.

[Rebl2]

29. Exactly!

Guess only Democrats get punished

[smirkymonkey]

31. What is going on right now w/ Trump and the republican party is unacceptable.

I can't even believe we are talking about this like it's business as usual. Asses need to be hauled into prison NOW. Enough of this shit!

[uponit7771]

32. There will be investigation only after admission and a video is found of him or staff taking docs

[Stuart G]

36. K and R..Now that this has made .".The News.." More will be coming. and it will be "A LOT MORE"

A WHOLE LOT MORE...AND MORE....AND MORE...AND MORE..

And when you have thought that you have seen it all,,, .THERE IS ALWAYS ...........!!!!!

[SWBTATTReg]

38. Indeed. Why all of the special treatment, the sidestepping of charges that would be slapped

onto anyone else in a heartbeat, etc. versus trump? Mueller and Barr were dealing w/ tRump issues way back then, where are the hell are these charges still? When will the co-conspirator 1 be indicted finally? This pampering needs to stop for it seems like I've seen state and / or federal cases get slapped onto people for crimes far more recent, age-wise.

[Joinfortmill]

42. Justice is coming.

[monkeyman1]

49. which life time ?

[Rhiannon12866]

48. K&R! And same here! This was brought up on the news yesterday.

And what TFG is guilty of is many, many times worse! Expecting a commensurate punishment forthcoming!

[gab13by13]

50. According to the Archivist,

all of the documents haven't been retrieved, restored, found. Now that The National Archives has referred the case to DOJ shouldn't the FBI be looking for those missing documents?

Who investigates Trump and his fellow traitors use of personal email accounts, burner phones, and encryption around 1/6?

ps/ I am one of the people who feel that DOJ should be doing more and I have proof. DOJ allowed a bogus pro-Trump fake company have access to ballots, voter information, and election equipment and materials, in violation of federal law. Those items should have remained in the possession of election officials. DOJ only wrote a stern letter that was ignored by the Cyber Ninjas. A citizens group has recently filed a FOIA request for Cyber Ninja documents to explain its fraudit procedures, a judge has ruled in favor of the FOIA and is fining the fake company 50,000 dollars a day until the fake company turns over documents. There is no Cyber Ninja company, it is a mail box location, the fake company is ignoring the fines and this is a concrete example where DOJ failed to act because the fraudits then spread across the country and resulted in spreading of the Big Lie and excuses for firing honest election workers and replacing them with Magats.

The real problem is with people who sit back and proclaim that everything is going fine, don't worry, if worse comes to worse we will just GOTV.