When were Russians

[cilla4progress]

ever free?

The Russian people?

[Walleye]

1. I think Putin is afraid they might find out what freedom actually is

[OAITW r.2.0]

2. I know, right?

So much hope when Gorbachev was running the show. For a moment I believed the Russians had finally rid themselves of political leg-irons. Then the Putin Crime Family took over......

[cilla4progress]

4. Ah yes -

Gorbachev...

[OAITW r.2.0]

7. Appears to me that Russia suffers the same population % that inflict us.

30% are racist nationalists 70% are social democrats. In both cases, the minority is funded by the extreme capitalists.

[orangecrush]

11. +1

[CanonRay]

14. Excellent point

[Tommy Carcetti]

3. Maybe if the February Revolution and Kerensky had succeeded...

…some sort of democracy might have evolved. Unfortunately it seemed doomed for failure in the shadow of Lenin and the Bolsheviks.

I would want to say there was a chance in the early 90s, but the oligarchs were already divvying up the kleptocracy pretty early on. And Yeltsin’s showdown with his legislature in 93 signaled political instability to come, a situation Putin no doubt was ready to pounce on when the time was right.

[cilla4progress]

5. Ah yes -

Yeltsin!

Going to have to go back and review this history!

[Tommy Carcetti]

9. Yeltsin was popular after the failed 91 coup on Gorbachev...

…but as a leader was too volatile, corruptible and, well, drunk to lead Russia to the Promised Land.

[OAITW r.2.0]

10. The fact that Yeltsin was a clown on the world stage did not help.

Sad there wasn't a younger Gorbachev waiting to carry the essential ideas forward. Of course, we had a Republican actor in office that reacted for the kudo's he received in defeating the "Evil Empire" than giving Gorbachev the real political and financial support to allow Russia to evolve in a more democratic way.

[Bucky]

6. Under Boris Yeltsin they were more free than they are now

Last edited Tue Feb 22, 2022, 06:18 PM - Edit history (1)

Of course his more open political leadership led to further fracturing of central authority & a degradation of their political clout.

Of course a Russia with the size it is, with the diverse composition that it has, surrounded by the neighbors as it is, you really can't have a liberal tolerant society. It wants to fall apart. Russia needs a strong man.

[cilla4progress]

8. Interesting.

Always wondered why they have always struggled it seems with their governements.

Tyrants, dictators, autocrats, Kings.

[OAITW r.2.0]

13. Russia has a lot of landmass, but not that many humans.

Tough life, as it always has been, for the the typical Russian. It's economic output is less than California's. Putin can have a show of force in his backyard, but that really doesn't project power. If it turns bloody, it's on Putin. And then, watch how we take down the Russian Oligarch's ability to use their ill-gotten riches.

[cilla4progress]

20. God,

I hope you are right!

[Bucky]

21. They're in for a hard ride, that's for sure.

You're on-point about population density, of course.

However this particular conflict is happening in a place where Russia and its neighbors have a typical population density compared to the rest of eastern Europe

[Hekate]

12. Never, really. The Tsars ruled for centuries upon centuries. Then the Communists came along...

Whatever good intentions the Revolutionaries started with, they ended up with immense cruelty and no freedom.

[3catwoman3]

15. In the summer of 1981, I spent 2 weeks in...

…what was then still the USSR. It was a trip of nurses, and the purpose was to compare health care in the US to health care in the USSR, specifically to look at whether or not there was anything comparable to the nurse practitioner role we have here. Short answer - no. Not even close.

We went to the capitals of 5 of the republics - Russia first, then Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Georgia, and finally Ukraine. While going by bus from one of the southern republics to another (can’t now remember which), we saw women washing their clothes in a river, beating them on the rocks on the shoreline. We saw men driving horse-drawn wagons with wooden wheels - solid wooden wheels, not even wheels with spokes.

It might as well have been 1881, if that. Shockingly primitive.

[OAITW r.2.0]

16. If you went back today....

I wonder how much significant change has happened? Under Putin, why would they want everyone connected?

[3catwoman3]

17. I think I would be afraid to go back today.

In some of the very rural areas, I would not be surprised if things haven’t changed much.

All in all, it was an interesting 2 weeks, but not much fun, and I was very glad to get back home.

[OAITW r.2.0]

18. I would bet that was the case.

Saw a lot of weird shit, but probably best not to express your opinion in the moment. I had those moments as well, in China.

[radius777]

19. There is a pro-Western/pro-democratic element

in an around the large cities, especially amongst the younger people. The internet basically has shown them how the West lives and they want that for themselves. That's why Putin's dream of returning to the Soviet way is not going to work in the long run.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

22. What do you mean by "free" in this question?