Ending 3G Service Sparks Fears of an 'Alarmaggedon'

[Ron Obvious]

AT&T's planned shutdown of its 3G network Tuesday has sparked fears that home security systems, medical alert monitors and a range of other devices will stop working. From a report:

Carriers have previously retired networks, but this transition is proving more complicated because the pandemic hindered companies that rely on 3G services from making upgrades. Plus, there are just more devices to manage. AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon are all planning to shut down their 3G networks this year to support new 5G services. AT&T, which first announced plans to sunset its 3G network in 2019, says less than 1% of its mobile data traffic runs on that network. The company has offered customers free and discounted 4G LTE phones to help them upgrade, totaling about 2 million replacements. What to watch: AT&T says phone coverage will not be affected, but it's not just phones that use the company's 3G network.

https://slashdot.org/story/22/02/22/1722242/ending-3g-service-sparks-fears-of-an-alarmaggedon

Well, it had to happen one day. I've refused to update my (T-Mobile) phones after year after year of warnings about 3G shutdown. but I think it's real now. This also includes our home security system this time.

Bah! Fuck 5G. Who needs it? I've seen people watch HD video on their stupid little smartphones on 4G now. I can't see the point.

[Hugin]

1. There are a bunch of automobiles out there with built in...

Hotspots that are going to go dark.

I predict a rash of service departments wondering, "Now why don't he write?"

[Thunderbeast]

2. The carriers hope that 5g will replace your home internet.

Cheaper to provision than cable or fiber. Will bring broadband to the hinterlands.

[Hugin]

4. It also opens up competition beyond the legacy...

twisted pair and cable drops most residential homes have.

Is it a good thing? I'm not quite Larry, but, we'll see.

[Ron Obvious]

5. No doubt

But I understand 5G has a lot of technical issues with penetration, going around or through walls, etc. I have cable internet and a home WiFi router and I don't see the point.

Maybe the more remote parts of the planet will benefit, as you say. I'm sure the internet companies, including Facebook and the like would hate to see potential markets untapped.

[Sympthsical]

33. Yeah, it really depends

When I'm in my house, my phone has two bars of 5G - which is totally fine. The down speed is about 110 Mps, which works for just about all things. If I go outside, it hooks into 5G UW with a 400Mps down speed.

Given our home wifi network typically runs devices at 450Mps down speed, I don't imagine I'd be eager to peel off cable any time soon.

[jcgoldie]

24. broadband to the hinterlands

I wish but as of now there just aren't enough 5 G towers anywhere outside large cities. I have had to rely on expensive satellite internet for years with low datacaps. I tried the T-mobile 5G hotspot just last year and it didn't work. Was told the reception too poor because the 5G towers too far away. I live 10 mi outside of a town of 35 k and 35 minutes from downtown STL.

It isn't the speeds that are the problem for rural users, but the range.

[hunter]

26. They are advertising 5G heavily in our community as a primary service...

... replacing landlines, cable, and satellite.

Some of our neighbors have already switched.

5G equipment is everywhere -- on streetlights, random poles, the sides of buildings, etc.

My children have moved to places with fast optical fiber connections direct to their homes. I think that was their first criteria in choosing places to live. No optical fiber, no sale.

I'm not sure optical fiber will ever come to our neighborhood. Our neighborhood was built before high speed internet and has cable television, telephone lines, and power lines buried directly in the ground, not in any conduit. Running optical fiber or higher capacity coaxial cable to each house or apartment building would require a lot of digging. Our children live in neighborhoods with overhead utilities. The optical fiber is simply strung on the poles.

There's been a lot of digging in our neighborhood previously to build out the 4G LTE system. The 5G system seems to be branching off of that fiber infrastructure.

Any day now I'm expecting a notice telling me our ancient DSL service will be discontinued.

[Chuuku Davis]

38. No

5g does not have the range of 4g, which means more towers needed

[Mr.Bill]

46. I seriously doubt that making internet access cheaper

for us is very high up on their list of priorities.

[Thunderbeast]

47. Notice I said cost to PROVISION!

Price to customers will be what the market will bear.

Cellular service in the IS s a tri-opoly. Two of the three infrastructure carriers (who operate their own towers) are children of the Bell System monopoly (Google that one children). The third has roots in it's German government monopoly structure.

It is a very profitable business. I see no reason why THEY would want to change that.

[Mr.Bill]

48. I did notice that, and I agree with you. n/t

[Celerity]

3. 'on their stupid little smartphones'

way to insult most of the planet (and for what reason, I have no clue)

https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/how-many-phones-are-in-the-world#

[Ron Obvious]

8. I know they're everywhere

I just think they're crappy little computers with a shit interface. They're no replacement for my home computer, and I don't have a need to be online everywhere I go. I also don't like that they appear to be turning the whole world into captive, passive consumer zombies with no attention span.

Yeah, yeah, go ahead and "OK, boomer" me. I hear it all the time.

[Celerity]

17. I do not do 'OK Boomer' as it would make me look like a hypocrite when I object

to the negative framing of younger people/voters that is all too common by some here (not you, just to be crystal).

I also realise that I am on a Boomer and up dominated (and surely first half Gen X and up utterly dominated) board and have zero desire to start a gen war (I am right on the cusp of Millennial/Gen Z, born late summer 1996) that would likely end in my demise as a poster here, if not in loss of account (although that is very likely), then most certainly in terms of loss of credibility and respect with the majority of my fellow DU'ers (and rightly so).

[JudyM]

40. And also

because you genuinely aren’t ageist, I’m guessing.

[Celerity]

43. well, yes, that too!

[Sympthsical]

34. One of the problems is that many workplaces developed an expectation of online presence

My job knows I have my smartphone on me. It's just expected I can access various things at a moment's notice. With my partner, who often has to do go to different locations for his work, his phone is his life. Even when he's home, he's communicating through his phone for a large majority of his multi-person meetings.

I far, far, far prefer to use my PC for just about everything. I do not like trying to type long e-mails or messages into my phone.

But, that's just how it is now. Notifications, messages, requests. It all goes through the phone. Same with school. Professor communications, grades, announcements, etc. Phone notifications.

I work and go to school from home, but my phone is always in a wireless cradle where I can see the screen, because I am expected to be relatively on top of any notifications I receive.

I actually like being out of touch. I usually use my phone for practical things. The youtube/reddit crap in public doesn't happen unless I'm waiting in line somewhere or on public transit.

But, the world has shifted. We're expected to be connected at all times.

[Blues Heron]

14. I have several smartphones, flips etc. and Im not even slightly insulted!

I agree with Ron, this shit is for the birds.

I just had to upgrade to 4G from my 3G flip, and now I cant text at all. These fiddly little things are just straight up annoying most of the time, albeit totally useful every now and then.

[Celerity]

18. limited spectrum means limited recourses as tech marches on, and that was not what I commented

on (or at least not what I intended to comment on)

[Blues Heron]

20. no prob!

I was just commenting on people being insulted at the thought that cellphones suck the big one most of the time, im no insulted at all, i despise this shit, but you have to have it.

basically its unreliable most of the time so you cant rely on it

[MineralMan]

6. Progress often sucks.

I give 4G a couple more years before they start shutting it down, too. My Samsung A10e is already obsolete. On the other hand, those smart phones are designed to age out after three or four years anyhow, so, I'm already thinking about my next phone. One thing's certain, though: The next one will be 5G. Verizon seems to have cut back on 4G service already, and I have a lousy 4G signal strength these days. They know how to move people to new phones, it seems.

[Celerity]

10. 4G to 5G: How Long Will 4G LTE Be Available? (much longer than a couple years)

https://www.digi.com/blog/post/4g-to-5g-how-long-will-4g-lte-be-available

snip

Our current generation of cellular technology, 4G LTE, was introduced in 2008 with Release 8 by the 3rd Generation Partnership Project (3GPP), which is an organization that develops standards for mobile communications. The 3GPP issues standard releases with incremental improvements about every other year (up to Release 14) and guides the evolution of the 4G standard.

4G LTE (Long Term Evolution) is a technology that has now been proven in both consumer and commercial applications. 4G LTE is flexible. It accommodates, for example, low-power LTE-M and NB-IoT devices that typically transmit only a few KBs of data, as well as devices capable of high-speed Gigabit data transmission. Because of its widespread adoption, 4G LTE is also very affordable, especially compared to the cost of the newest, high-end 5G technology, which earns the term “bleeding edge” in terms of cost and capabilities, as well as support.

The Transition from 4G to 5G

With the exponential growth of IoT devices in recent years and the aforementioned limited spectrum, the lifespan of cellular technology is getting shorter. 2G and 3G have been sunsetted to make room for the more spectrum-efficient 4G LTE and emerging 5G technologies. 4G is expected to last for at least another decade, and possibly longer with the help of Dynamic Spectrum Sharing (DSS), which shares available spectrum between 4G LTE and 5G devices. DSS provides improved coverage for 5G devices and greater longevity for 4G LTE devices. The first 4G LTE sunset announcements are expected after 2030, which means that companies can safely invest in 4G-based IoT solutions today and for the foreseeable future.

[MineralMan]

29. Yeah, OK, but I'll be replacing my phone within a year anyhow.

So, my next phone will be a 5G one. As soon as Verizon offers me one, preferably a Samsung A or S-series phone, at a reasonable price, I'll swap my current one out for a new one. Mine is 3 years old now. Why wouldn't I upgrade to the faster data transfer mode?

The Verizon offers keep going down in price, and Verizon isn't installing more 4G towers, so...

[Celerity]

32. yes, around 3 years is the amount of time I normally keep a phone, so coming up in May

I will start looking for a new one. I currently have a Samsung Galaxy S10 5G (SM-G977B ), the first 5G Galaxy. It has been great, but is starting to bog down a bit on certain apps and streams.

Probably will roll with the Samsung Galaxy S22+ 5G (the Ultra is overkill)

[MineralMan]

35. I like the size of my A10e. My wife has one of the S series

Samsungs, and it's a little to large to fit in my shirt pocket. I'd rather have a smaller form factor, frankly.

I have no trouble reading DU in normal desktop display mode on mine, so a smaller version for the next phone will work just fine.

I hope they have a smaller one when I'm ready to buy.

[Celerity]

37. The S22 (non +) would be fine, but the battery is a wee small

[bucolic_frolic]

7. I didn't want to do it either, but I'm glad I did

I didn't go fancy, but got a 4G month over month that piggybacks on one of the 3 biggest carriers for peanuts. I did find the learning curve steep though.

[Johnny2X2X]

9. My elderly father still has a 3G flip phone

He keeps it just for the occasional call when he's on the road.

Might have to buy him something just as simple in 4 G.

[a kennedy]

12. Is there ANY simple phones anymore?? I am not a tech geek, just really use my phone to text

phone and internet look, take photos and that’s about it. Simple needs, simple uses.

[Mariana]

25. Yes. nt.

[hunter]

28. I have a 4GLTE flip phone.

My cell phone provider essentially paid me to replace my old 3G flip phone.

They started pestering me with discounts on expensive slab type phones which I ignored. I didn't jump until they offered me a replacement flip phone and a $35 gift card as good as cash.

I'm a klutz with simple needs. I've broken borrowed slab phones. I don't need to break more. I've dropped my flip phones multiple times and it hasn't harmed them.

[Ron Obvious]

13. They do (or did) make 4G flip phones

A friend bought this one from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Plum-Volte-Unlocked-Rugged-Tmobile/dp/B09QV4HVD4/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=plum+ram+plus+4g+volte+unlocked+rugged&qid=1645552992&sprefix=plum+ram+plus%2Caps%2C172&sr=8-3

[fightforfreedom]

15. I have a 3G flip phone. It costs me $7 a month.

It's all I need. I don't need a 4G or 5G or a smart phone. Call me old fashioned and I will thank you.

[JudyM]

41. My mother has a Lively flip phone, supposedly for seniors

The user interface is horrible, have to wade through screen after screen after screen to do anything, setting an alarm is a real PITA… I wish Apple would develop one!

[jmowreader]

11. 5G allows far more devices per square kilometer than 4G

The Internet of Things is coming, and quickly.

5G gives terminal density of 1 million stations per square kilometer vs 4000 stations per square kilometer in 4G…which sounds like “so what?” until you realize those stations could be a firefighter’s helmet, a cop’s body cam, a dog collar, your car, my refrigerator, an over-the-road truck or anything else you need to check on.

[JCMach1]

21. But it gets blocked a lot easier from my experience...

So that density + only works if you are out in open with clear line of sight to tower.

And that's from an urban environment. I can't imagine how awful the rural experience is

[Ron Obvious]

23. No Internet of Things ever for us here at Obvious Manor

Seriously, put my thermostat, coffee maker and refrigerator on the net? For what? The benefits seem so utterly minor and the hazards enormous (surveillance, hacking, firmware upgrades making features unavailable or only available on subscription, etc).

I'm fine with turning my thermostat up when I get up in the morning as I don't want a hacker being able to tell when I'm home or turning my thermostat up to 110.

I'm not a Luddite. I enthusiastically embraced WiFi and Bluetooth, for example. I do, however, need to weigh benefits vs risks and drawbacks with technological advances, and more and more I find myself unable to justify new technology these days.

[jmowreader]

27. I'm not planning for it either

However, I would love for my newspaper press and platesetters to be on it. There have been lots of times when we had something drastic go on and the brass perched themselves in the shop waiting for plates to come out and the press to start running. It would be much better if they could sit at home and watch their phones.

[AnyFunctioningAdult]

39. I cannot tell you what a relief it was when traveling

for work to have the ability to check in on my dog with cameras, be able to adjust the thermostat in case of unexpected weather or if someone forgot to change it before leaving the house.

I started seeing the benefits when my dog started to go blind and I installed ioT light switches so I could make sure if I was out of the house when it got dark I could turn extra lights on for him. It also meant not having to leave lights on all day in case I was home late or out of town and the dogsitter was late. It also meant being able to turn the AC/heat on for the zones the dog was not in 10-20 minutes before getting home so I was not walking into a sauna/ice bucket when I got home.

Having a remotely programmable door lock where I did not have to give a copy of a key to a dogsitter, just a 6 digit code to enter which could be disabled when they were not working was awesome. Being able to open/close my garage from anywhere (and have a camera to make sure it was closed when I was away) was great. That the door lock documented when the door was opened and closed so I could always know when the dogsitter arrived and could verify by camera was a huge stress reliever. If there was an emergency, I could give a friend or neighbor a code to get in or open the door remotely. Kid forgot to close the garage? I get an alert and can close it. Leave for vacation and someone left the AC on? No $1000 bill.

I take the hacking/big brother stuff seriously so I do see the point there. I never use cloud services to store video of sensitive areas, I built my own servers that are at home for file backup and video. I am not going to use Alexa and let my conversations be recorded though. Yes, there is always a chance someone could hack into one of the devices, just like when people used to drive down the street with universal garage remotes trying to get one to open, but at the end of the day they could also just break a window and get in. I would rather risk a hack (if there was a hack of a major iOT device, it would be discovered and I would remove the affected device) than risk someone breaking in and not getting an alert on my phone that a motion sensor had gone off or have video evidence of someone in my home. If someone hacks a popular thermostat, I would just disconnect it until it was patched.

I do not see much benefit of having a coffee pot or refrigerator on the internet though...but I do see one day where everything in said refrigerator would have an RFID/NFC tag so that you would always know what was in there/needed to buy. I probably agree that is overkill, but might be useful.

[Ron Obvious]

44. I've used WiFi security cameras as well

But those cameras were on our own network, which I made accessible from the outside through port forwarding. I don't think that's generally what's considered to be the Internet of Things, though, which seems to involve 3d parties controlling and maintaining your equipment, at least as an intermediary.

For me, the moment of clarity came when I bought a Ring doorbell. I liked the idea of having a camera by the front door which I could check before opening the door. However, I found out that it required a subscription to a service to access the camera images. That's where I opted out.

I thought the idea ludicrous that I would have to subscribe and pay money to a third party to be able to get the data from my own equipment. Additionally, that third party had the right to view and share those images as they saw fit. No thanks.

I understand that a lot of people wouldn't have the tech savy or interest to manage those devices themselves, but I do. I want to be the one in sole control of my own equipment. Call me a paranoid control freak.

[AnyFunctioningAdult]

45. I agree 100%

And you are right, most of the devices lean toward either requiring you to subscribe to a service and/or store data/video on their system or providing minimal features when you do it yourself. That is the reason I never got a Ring. If I cannot 100% maintain it on my internal network, I do not want it.

[dalton99a]

16. And cars:

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/3g-wireless-network-shutdown-impact-on-car-safety-a2215482633/

3G Wireless Network Shutdown Means Your Car May Lose Automatic Crash Notification
As 3G networks shut down in 2022, some cars can be upgraded—but others will lose the feature for good
By Keith Barry

As wireless carriers prepare to shut down their 3G networks over the coming months, millions of cars may lose the ability to automatically contact first responders after a crash. Some vehicles just need a software or hardware upgrade, but others—including vehicles from Chrysler, Dodge, Hyundai, Jeep, Lexus, Nissan, Ram, and Toyota—will lose their connections permanently.

Automatic crash notification, which alerts first responders after a crash via a built-in cellular connection, often relies on aging 3G cellular networks to connect drivers with emergency services and share a vehicle’s location. Even though automakers have been aware that these networks are shutting down permanently between February and July, many manufacturers still relied on it until as recently as the 2021 model year. ...

In addition to crash notification, many vehicles also have an “SOS” button to contact emergency services, and a lot of those buttons still use a 3G network. It’s usually red and located near the vehicle’s dome light or rearview mirror. Some cars may also use 3G connectivity for convenience features such as remote unlocking, remote start, emergency roadside assistance, navigation map updates, and vehicle diagnostics. These and other features will no longer work without an upgrade to newer 4G or 5G technology—but because of the way many of these vehicles are designed, it can be difficult or even impossible to upgrade the technology to work with the newer networks, Lanctot says.

[JCMach1]

19. Can I just post my review of 5G here?

It's only faster when you are close to tower and gets blocked easier than 3G and 4G

It sucks!

[spinbaby]

22. I have a Comcast security system

They sent me a letter about two weeks ago telling me to go online to order a new part because my system would be unable to communicate when 3G goes down. I duly ordered said part, which will now arrive approximately three months after my system becomes obsolete.

[Ron Obvious]

30. No response yet from our security system tech guys either

I suspect they're overwhelmed. It's not inconceivable that the 3G shutdown will be delayed yet again because of this. We'll see.

ETA: Incontheivable!!

[Wounded Bear]

31. Spent some of my Biden Bucks on a new phone...

It's not technically 5G, but it is 4GLTE and I should be good for a while.

Hell, my old phone was several years old and crapping out anyway.

[brooklynite]

36. From the folks who brought you Y2K

FWI, I update my phone every two years, and my computer every three.

[Torchlight]

42. I was stuck to the false pride of my old flip phone until last summer.

Finally upgraded to a smart phone and am the happier for it.

Do I need a smart phone? No more than I needed my flip phone the past fifteen years. Or the second land line I had in my first place 30 years ago. Or the one land line my family had when I was growing up in the seventies and early eighties.