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[traitorsgalore]

This message was self-deleted by its author (traitorsgalore) on Sat Feb 26, 2022, 08:28 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[uponit7771]

1. America can be imperfect and ***STILL*** better than what the Putin's of this world are offering.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. How does that help the Ukranians?

[jmbar2]

3. All the more reason to try to stop any more tragedy

[GaYellowDawg]

4. Did you support that?

I know I didn’t. I didn’t support the invasion of Iraq, I didn’t support torture, and I wanted us out of Afghanistan a long time ago. Most of the Democratic Party did, so yes, we can object to Russia’s actions.

Wrong is wrong. Our past wrong actions do not invalidate the fact that what Russia is doing is wrong, and calling it out is still an obligation.

[lagomorph777]

31. +1000 OP looks like a backdoor support of Putin.

[JohnSJ]

5. Oh please. Most people here at DU were against what bush did by invading Iraq based on a lie.

Afghanistan was a different story. Not for an all out endless war, but to get Osama bin Laden who the Taliban was giving refuge to

[marie999]

22. The US invaded a country to get a terrorist.

Why didn't the US invade Pakistan when it knew he was there? The US didn't even wait a month to invade Afghanistan.

[JohnSJ]

26. Tora Bora is in Afghanistan. After they screwed up and missed bin Laden at Tora Bora that is when

they should have pursued him in Pakistan.

There objective was to disable al queada.

Al queada was NOT in Iraq, and bush and company knew that, but went anyway, and destabilized the entire middle east by that action.

[milestogo]

34. but but but

they tried to kill his dad

[JohnSJ]

35. Most of us here knew Iraq was because of oil, and he used the WMD lie as an excuse to do it

[JI7]

37. No, Iraq was about W wanting revenge for the threat on his dad .

[JohnSJ]

39. We disagree, and Project for a New American Century (PNAC), whose associates were all part of the

bush administration, made it very clear what their objective was:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

[Zeitghost]

40. We did go in to Pakistan to get him...

n/t

[marie999]

42. Yes, but we didn't invade Pakistan.

[Beastly Boy]

6. But you obviously ARE feeling high and mighty making profound statements about invading.

You are making statements about Afghanistan and Iraq as Russian rocket fall on Ukrainian civilians.

Bad timing. Really bad timing.

[tirebiter]

7. The injustice was true then and the injustice is true now.

Going with truth now would be a wiser decision than not doing so, IMO.

[PSPS]

8. LOL. There's no escaping whatboutisms

You would have gathered a crowd yelping about "Sudetenland" 75 years ago.

[leftstreet]

9. DURec

[stopdiggin]

10. it's necessary to be high and mighty

to have a negative response to Russia crushing it's smaller (democratic) neighbor?

You know - we jump all over 'whataboutism' whenever that inane and silly game it is played out by our opponents and in the media. Maybe we could call a moratorium for the time being here on DU?

[JI7]

11. Then we shouldn't have Criticized Hitler Either.

[Raine]

12. This sort of rant helps no one! 👎 nt

[Samrob]

15. It helps me. nt

[pecosbob]

13. America is by definition an association of self-interested individuals

The fact that we ever get around to doing the right thing at all is amazing to me.

[eShirl]

14. Two wrongs don't make a right.

There's that.

[kcr]

16. Whuddabout! Whuddabout! Whuddabout!

Squawk

[hlthe2b]

17. Those here in 2003 were across the board in opposition to Bush* going into Iraq..

in opposition to Bush* going into Iraq. You weren't here. I was (since 2001). Nothing was decried more than the WMD lies and waterboarding/torture excuses by Cheney et al.

No one here was defending this then--as you are apparently defending Putin and his egregious actions today.

"Traitorsgalore," I find your post to be nothing more than another Putin-supporting/defending and potentially intentionally trolling rant. If that is the case, your screen name is like a neon sign. I hope I am wrong. We agree on the past re: Iraq, but I will not support your attempts to excuse Putin's actions today.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

18. Indeed

I joined DU when the mainstream media was amplifying Bush's "We need to invade Iraq" drumbeat . This site was a haven from that mindset.

[AngryOldDem]

21. +1

What is up with some of this crap?

[JohnSJ]

27. Absolutely.

[PA Democrat]

43. I joined DU in January 2004 because of my opposition to the Iraq invasion and the subsequent

actions of Bush/ Cheney.

I also find the OP to be a completely inappropriate exercise of whatabouterism.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

45. Yup.

I was here in 2003 also and I do remember the universal condemnation on DU, I suspect other reasons from this OP.

[betsuni]

19. "We"?

[BannonsLiver]

54. The OP is a Putinite and it's plain to see.

[AngryOldDem]

20. There is one hell of a difference between Ukraine and Iraq and Afghanistan.

If nobody can see that, then that’s on them.

Tired of these “whatabouttery”, self-righteous posts. This is the gravest threat Europe had faced in 75 years. Nothing is ginned-up about this. All the intelligence called this almost perfectly, almost down to the day. Nothing was exaggerated or made up about this.

Oh, and by the way, there’s never been a perfect government in all the history of the world. If you’re expecting that, good luck.

The U.S. was WRONG in Iraq and Afghanistan. There. It’s been said. Now, let’s turn our attention to the very real crisis at the West’s doorstep.

Jesus.

[Mosby]

57. We weren't wrong to take on al qaida in Afgahnistan.

The UN security council resolution 1368 approved the intervention in Afgahnistan. Same with UNSCR 1441 with Iraq and that monster Sadaam Hussain. This was supported by the Democratic establishment, President Obama, VP biden, Secretary Clinton, Secretary Kerry.

Let's not throw out Democratic leaders under the bus.

[Sunsky]

23. We who?

There were many objections. With that said, what's your solution? Sit back and do nothing/ say nothing because supposedly "we" have done this before?

[Demsrule86]

32. This in a sense defends Russia and all socipathic 'bad guys' who because of our imperfections

are now free to do anything they want. Well, I hate war and was against Afghanistan, but Bin Laden and his cronies had to go. Clinton had the right idea ...drag the bad actors out of Afghanistan and try them either here or at the world court. But this defense of Russia as they enter Ukraine with moveable crematoriums to hide the bodies I suppose is ridiculous.

[ibegurpard]

24. This board was united in condemnation of the Iraq War

Shove your whataboutism

[JohnSJ]

28. +++

[BannonsLiver]

53. It's actually Putinism

[Amishman]

25. Not remotely comparable.

There are a million way it is different, but the largest and easiest to explain is the goal of the military action.

Our actions in Iraq and Afghanistan had the end goal of creating a more free and stable country, afterwards we would leave. Dismal failure, but that was the goal.

Russia's actions are territorial annexation.

Time for more than these weak sanctions; total trade embargo and forfeiture of overseas assets needs to be on the table.

[JohnSJ]

29. Our goal in Afghanistan was to eliminate bin Laden and AQ. Iraq was to control the oil. AQ was not

in Iraq and we knew it, so the bush administration lied to us about WMDs, and almost everyone here at DU saw right through that lie, and were against bush and us going into Iraq.

[Demsrule86]

30. Oh please...Afghanistan harbored Bin Laden and we were attacked...not the same at all. I was

against the war...thought we should have dragged Bin Laden and his buddies out of there and tried them for their crimes...but we sure had more justification...you trash the US and in a sense defend Russia...so here goes Russia is run by a sociopath name Putin...he invaded a country that did nothing to him and he is a piece of crap and we should make his life a living hell with sanctions and whatever else we can throw his way.

[Hav]

33. Oh please...who upvotes this shit?

At a time when Ukraine is under attack?
This isn't about having the moral high ground, it's about a brutal dictator attacking a sovereign nation. Ukraine isn't in that privileged position to debate who has the moral high ground.

This whataboutism and moral high ground excuse is so annoying because it doesn't even attempt to offer any kind of solution.
The only point of this is to say US is bad and should shut up. It's a miserable attempt to deflect and find excuses for Russia and daddy Putin who can do no wrong cuz communism or similarly dumb rationalizations that are never spelled out by the pro-Putin crowd here.

[Fix The Stupid]

36. Oh please...who upvotes this shit?

At a time when Iraq is under attack?
This isn't about having the moral high ground, it's about a brutal dictator attacking a sovereign nation. Iraq isn't in that privileged position to debate who has the moral high ground.

This whataboutism and moral high ground excuse is so annoying because it doesn't even attempt to offer any kind of solution.
It's a miserable attempt to deflect and find excuses for the USA and daddy GWB who can do no wrong cuz "terrorism" or similarly dumb rationalizations that are never spelled out by the pro-Bush crowd here.

[Hav]

41. Find a single post from me

making the moronic argument the day the Iraq war started that countries criticizing the Iraq war don't have the moral high ground.
I was against the Iraq war. I have no clue why DUers who joined later somehow believe that DU supported that war.

[nini]

38. Oh..you must be the one who opposed those actions!

Because of course no one else did!

Such a bullshit hit and run post.

[JI7]

44. This sounds like someone that votes their "conscience" by not voting for Gore

and helping Bush get into office .

[MarineCombatEngineer]

46. Ok.

Thanks for your concern.

[PA Democrat]

47. "WE"???????? Please spare me the collective "we" as you know NOTHING about many of us who have been

here for YEARS and have been outspoken opponents of much of America's militarism and have worked our asses off to elect leaders who will work to build an America that more closely reflects the ideals we cherish.

I'm sorry, but I find the scolding tone of your whatabouterism post to be absolute BS.

[MineralMan]

48. Great Idea, There. Attack the US When Russia Attacks Ukraine.

Great move! Really! I mean...WTAF?

I suggest you refocus.

[BlueLucy]

49. Russia is taking Ukraine for their own. We did not do that.

Wrong or right, we want to spread democracy worldwide. Putin wants the opposite. The USA is still a better place to live than most places. People here are allowed to dissent and that's not true in Russia or China.

[Voltaire2]

50. We don't spread democracy anywhere.

We never have. We barely have a democracy here. What we do is install client regimes that almost invariably fail over time, but that serve some larger purpose in our goal of global hegemony.

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is a war crime, so were our invasions of other nations. None of them are justified.

[uponit7771]

51. BULL FUCKIN SHIT !! We can be hypocrites, imperfect and STILL be correct when it comes to Putin

[BannonsLiver]

52. Putin talking points 101

Last edited Thu Feb 24, 2022, 02:58 PM - Edit history (1)

Americans don’t get to have an opinion because America has done bad stuff too.

And you bought it, hook, line and sinker.

And look at all the Putinites who rec’d it too.

[Mosby]

55. They weren't illegal wars, that's just anti-American propaganda.

UNSCR 1368 and 1441.

Saddam Hussain had violated 17 SC resolutions by the time UNSCR 1441 was passed.

Do you think PBO is a war criminal? Should he, HRC and Kerry be tried at the Hague?

[hlthe2b]

58. Posted Wednesday &"single hit & run" apparently. I guess my original instincts (upstream) correct..