Have any of you read Tom Clancy's Red Storm Rising?

[sir pball]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Storm_Rising

For the uninformed, it's generally considered the most accurate depiction of a conventional, cross-Europe WW3 ever written. IIRC it was even required reading at the military academies for a while.

Anyway, for my fellow milgeeks, is it currently accurate and where do you think we are?

For me, it's now a 50-50 shot. We've fulfilled the prequel, the tank attacks in Germany are next.

[Pachamama]

1. Great book

I think that like the story in the book - Putin has dark plans

[sir pball]

5. I agree, but everyone is screaming "Nuclear"

While ignoring the far bigger threat conventional forces form.

[Pachamama]

14. Everyone should always scream when it comes to Nukes being used

But I don’t get the sense that there is no awareness or concern about the threat from conventional weapons.

Or chemical. Or “sonic” weopons.

Which there should be no doubt about whether Russia would be willing to use.

[Best_man23]

2. Read it years ago

We're at the prequel. I think the US and UK Navies need to put battlegroups in the North Sea and Mediterranean to contain the Russian Navy to prevent one part of the Red Storm Rising story, the invasion and occupation of Iceland.

[sir pball]

3. As I said, it was required reading at the Academies...

We will not be neglecting Iceland this time. It is critical to control Red sub movement.

[Pachamama]

15. I was thinking about the reports from the Norwegian military recently about sabotage of the

….devices and systems for detecting submarines.

Also the “exercises” that Russia had been planning off of Ireland….

[sir pball]

16. Yeah - Russia is trying to sabotage the GIUK, but unsucessfully.

As Clancy knew then and as we know now, the Greenland-Iceland-UK Gap is critical to controlling the deepwater subs coming out of Russia, and we will *never* allow it to be compromised.

There are three Borei-class nuclear missile subs in the Russian "Navy". We know where they all are and can sink them on two minutes notice.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

17. You can bet that every Russian SSBN is being shadowed by a Los Angeles class, Seawolf class,

or a Virginia class Hunter/Killer sub, along with NATO Hunter/Killer subs.

[BGBD]

4. Skeptical

Russia doesn't have the capability to wage that kind of war I'm the face of NATO anymore. 1986 was a long time ago.

I don't believe Putin is interested in self destruction and I don't believe he's literally crazy. He's not going to launch nuclear missiles because he knows more would be coming back at him. He's not going to push into NATO because he knows he'd lose.

[sir pball]

6. Ok, I can buy that

But then given how limited Putin's options are what is he gonna do!

[BGBD]

10. I don't think he does anything

NATO forces aren't going to come after him if he doesn't provoke it with an attack.

I think he has more than a handful with Ukraine anyway. Taking and holding it are going to be costly and probably impossible in the long run. The people there will never submit to Russian control. It'll be an insurgency and there are plenty of experienced insurgents who would make their way into Ukraine for a shot at killing Russians.

[Calista241]

7. Great book. One of the best.

I listened to Alexander Vindman discuss an American ambush of Russian contractors in Syria several years ago, and his deductions were that the Russian military, throughout their chain of command, is terrified of having to face the US military in a protracted engagement.

It also doesn't look like this invasion of Ukraine is going exactly to plan. I'm not predicting a Russian loss, but I don't think they're performing as a 1st rate military should. If Russia gets bogged down in the Ukraine, all of Putin's future plans are for nought.

[BGBD]

11. Russia doesn't have the conbat experience that

NATO countries have from decades fighting in the middle east.

At best Russia has pilots experienced in dropping bombs and some experiences special forces soldiers. But what kind of combat experience do these guys going in to Ukraine have? I doubt it's much and they are fighting against a military and population who believe they are fighting for their lives and homes.

And if they get control they are going to be dealing with a determined and entrenched insurgency. One directly on their border.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

8. Yes,

Excellent read and very believable.

I think what happened to the Politburo in the book can very well happen to Putin and his inner circle.

[Dial H For Hero]

9. Read it when it came out. Accurate for its time, but the geopolitical situation today is

quite different.

[sarcasmo]

12. Poland next then Germany.

[sir pball]

13. And we respond how?

The book is very accurate, IMO.

[Volaris]

18. I read it once, in high school, bout 1993?

Sequel (of sorts) to Red October. I remember enjoying it a lot it was a good read. Might be time for for a reread/refresher

[Celerity]

19. Never read it but some of the responses on other threads about what courses to take

read like poor fiction. Not just poorly written, but poorly conceived, poorly thought out, with little apparent understanding of a multiplicity of subjects that are fundamentally germane to the entire situation.