Long story short: I just walked to Poland.

[L. Coyote]

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[cilla4progress]

1. Saw this.

THIS CANNOT STAND

[dalton99a]

2. Kick

[I_UndergroundPanther]

3. That sunrise

Is stunningly beautiful and I am glad you made it to the EU.

[dchill]

4. Thank you for posting.

[L. Coyote]

8. Follow him here also:

Last edited Fri Feb 25, 2022, 12:38 PM - Edit history (1)

Link to tweet

[Freethinker65]

5. Am assuming it was not a male Ukrainian relaying this?

[AZSkiffyGeek]

6. Bio says it's an American journalist nt

[Freethinker65]

16. Yes, but he posted it from someone

Who was the person that sent the journalist the original text and photos?
It could not have been a Ukrainian male from what was said.
There are lots of personal narratives and photos being posted to Twitter that are not confirmed to even be from Ukraine, less so from the last 24 hours.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

18. I'm mistrustful of random Twitter accounts with names like "Ukraine Freedom"

But this person seems to have been in the caravan leaving Ukraine, and other Tweets indicate he's being interviewed all over the place.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

7. It's an American.

https://twitter.com/MannyMarotta

[bigtree]

9. where's separate confirmation that the Ukranian govt. is conscripting men?

....I find that series of tweets misinforming.

I have read of Russian soldiers conscripting men in Russian hld areas of Ukraine.

[LisaL]

10. Ages 18 to 60.

"Ukraine on Wednesday has started conscripting reservists aged 18-60 following a decree by President Volodymyr Zelenskiy, the armed forces said in a statement."

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-starts-drafting-reservists-aged-18-60-after-presidents-order-2022-02-23/

[bigtree]

11. where does it say Ukrainian soldiers are forcing men off of busses and such

...as was described in this man's tweet?

[LisaL]

12. Government ordered conscripting men aged 18 to 60.

Tweet is saying men aged 18 to 60 were forced off buses to conscript in the army. Makes sense to me.

[bigtree]

14. it sounds like propaganda

...Ukraine forcing their people to fight, etc.

Like I said, I've seen no major reports of forced conscription by Ukrainians as described in the tweets. I do see scattered claims of this, but they are mostly confirmed reports of Russians forcing conscription in the areas they hold.

If I see a credible report of Ukrainians doing this, I'll post it, but this is just rumor without confirmation. maybe credible, but such an inflammatory charge, I'd be certain of it's veracity, beyond reports that Ukraine has a draft, before asserting this as fact.

[Bayard]

15. Same here

I AM seeing a ton of people volunteering to fight for their country.

[Freethinker65]

17. Yep.

[LisaL]

19. You can believe it or not.

Government ordered conscription of men 18-60.
Again, this tweet makes sense to me.

[bigtree]

26. I just asked for independent confirmation

...that's what makes twittered reports believable.

[wnylib]

30. I can understand your wish for verification.

Truth is a casualty of war.

I find it very believable, though. In time of war, when a nation has been attacked and is fighting for its life, it declares conscription. That much is verified in several news reports about men 18 to 60. Under the circumstances, it is likely that men fleeing the country would be literally grabbed off of buses and out of cars to be sent to the army.

In the US war in Vietnam, the battle was not on our home territory. We were not under attack. Yet young men who tried to avoid conscription were arrested in their homes or places of work. So they went underground. I knew one person who was arrested twice for not reporting when called up.

[bigtree]

36. the majority of reports say Ukrainians are enlisting in large numbers

...this would be in contradiction of those reports.

Videos shared online show the long lines of people signing up for the military.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/thousands-ukrainians-sign-fight-country-163342883.html

[Lasher]

50. Not mutually exclusive.

I was drafted during the Vietnam era. It was not fun, but I went when my name was called.

So I can tell you from personal experience it happens. I think the report is true.

[Dan]

46. Of course it makes sense, if we were invaded - what do you think we would do?

[Farmer-Rick]

21. Yeah, I am very doubtful about this Twitter account

Something about it comes off as dismissive and casual. Like hay, fleeing Ukraine ahead of radioactive armed Russian soldiers ...fun times. But look at mean Ukraine soldiers dragging off poor kids.

Maybe I'm wrong. Try posting Putin slurs to the account and see if you get blocked.

Oh by the way Shorty Putin is only attacking the Ukraine because he has the smallest, tiniest.........err...........ego of any man alive.

[calimary]

35. Um ... I went there, too, Farmer-Rick.

Regarding Putin’s - um - motivation.

Putin’s “Peter Principle.”

[BlackSkimmer]

38. Yes, and there's another thread showing men pulling a person out of a car.

All of age to be drafted, but no sign of any conscription gangs lurking nearby.

[BlackSkimmer]

39. I'm not believing random tweeters.

This is irresponsible.

I don’t mean you specifically, but it sounds like Russian propaganda that this tweeter is either engaging in himself, or being used to spread it.

[Ms. Toad]

47. You're skipping over a key word -

"reservists."

In other words, the official report is conscription of people who have already made a commitment to the military - not random men aged 18-60.

I'm not fond of the military - but if you are a member of the reserve, you have received benefits in exchange for exactly what the formal reports describe: being conscripted to serve in active duty.

[Grasswire2]

59. THANK YOU

I was about to point that out.

RESERVISTS.

[LisaL]

65. Everybody is a reservist if at 18 you are expected to spend time

in the military. In the Soviet Union, all men were expected to serve two years in the arm forces unless they had some sort of exemption (usually medical).

[Ms. Toad]

70. Do you have any support for that assertion?

This comment from the Ukranian President would seem to indicate that being called up as a reservist is different from being conscripted. If all men are reservists, there would not be a separate need for conscription.

In calling up the reserves, he added that general conscription was not yet necessary.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/22/world/europe/ukraines-president-calls-up-reserves-urging-ukrainians-to-fight-for-their-country.html

[LisaL]

64. No, men are not allowed to leave the country.

In the Soviet Union (which Ukraine was a part of) all men were expected to have a commitment to a military. It's not like US where you receive benefits.


"Still reeling from the violence, many say they don't know where to go next. It's a question that's been complicated by a new Ukrainian martial law that's been rolled out. Among other restrictions, it prohibits men between the ages of 18 and 60 from leaving the country."

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/25/europe/lviv-refugees-ukraine-war-intl-cmd/index.html

[Ms. Toad]

69. I was not addressing anything beyond the Reuter's quote

which you repeatedly insisted supported the OP's tweets, while ignoring the limtation in the reputable source to "reservists aged 18-60"

Other information, which has come to light AFTER the series of tweets, may support the OP, but the Reuter's quote limiting the restriction to reservists does not.

[ancianita]

20. Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine

February 24

...Shortly after 23:00 (UTC+2), President Zelenskyy ordered a general mobilization of all Ukrainian males between 18 and 60 years old; for the same reason, Ukrainian males from that age group were banned from leaving Ukraine.[208]

[ancianita]

22. Interfax-Ukraine

https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/801769.html

In the wake of the situation surrounding Ukraine, in order to ensure the state's defense and maintain combat and mobilization readiness of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and other military units, based on a proposal by the Ukrainian National Security and Defense Council, and in line with Article 102, Part 2, and Article 106, Part 1, Clauses 1, 17, and 20 of the Ukrainian Constitution, the president ordered declaring and conducting general mobilization, the statement published on the Ukrainian presidential website says.

[bigtree]

27. that's a draft

...not dragging men out of houses and busses as described.

[wnylib]

31. How is a draft carried out when people

do not respond to the call? They are seized and sent for training. We're you around during Vietnam?

[bigtree]

34. again, show me confirmation

...by any major source.

I'm only seeing random tweets claiming this.

The anecdotal asserted as fact amounts to misinformation without confirmation.

[ancianita]

37. Reuters

Poland's deputy interior minister Paweł Szefernaker said Ukrainian bus drivers were unable to drive across the border as conscription-age men were being held back in Ukraine.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/we-pray-ukraine-people-flee-war-into-central-europe-2022-02-25/

[bigtree]

40. thanks

...that one sentence is anecdotal, second hand, but may be confirming.

[ancianita]

42. More Reuters.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-president-calls-up-reservists-launches-programme-economic-patriotism-2022-02-22/

[bigtree]

48. this is about a general draft

...not about men dragged out of cars and homes.

[ancianita]

51. It's not fair to want general news modified to satisfy your criticism of some personal report

from civilians on the front whose job is to survive, not live up to your journalistic standards. There can't possibly be multiple on-the-ground eye-witness corroborations for every atrocity or violent act. Not during emergency evacuations and treks across borders.

Conscription, it turns out, has been debated since it was announced by Zelensky in Dec; it got overturned by petition shortly after; now it's back in full force, and rightly so.

Here. Try DW. It's a German broadcast network. It won't have the dramatic moments you want, either, but it does have information.

https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-president-orders-general-mobilization/a-60908996

https://www.dw.com/en/russia-ukraine-crisis-who-supplies-weapons-to-kyiv/a-60772390?maca=en-AS-content-outbrain

[bigtree]

52. where did I say I was looking for 'dramatic moments,' or news 'modified?'

...I was clear enough, so I'll just end my part in this exchange.

[ancianita]

53. Thought I read that you wanted confirmation of men dragged out of their cars. We're cool, though.

[bigtree]

54. I didn't see another report of men dragged out of their cars

...“it was just tragic – fathers being torn from their kids to go fight in the war," is how Marotta described it.

He's dramatized something he says he's observed, and there may be truth in it. If those men were subject to the announced draft, they would certainly be restricted from crossing the border, so it's plausible.

Plausible, like if I wrote that people were being dragged out of stores for refusing to wear a mask, and as proof I pointed to a policy that said masks would be required in stores.


edit to add: The problem I have with this anecdotal reporting is the way this journo generalized his account in a way that suggests this is something pervasive instead of incidental. In the only other account I read that was similar, it was suggested, like this one, that forced conscription was the primary way Ukraine was supplying troops to defend their country.

That inference isn't backed by anything other than the word of the writers, and I don't think it's an innocuous description of events, but that's just my hunch.

I really don't have any problem with this man reporting what he observed. I'd just like some confirmation that this is something as pervasive as he suggests. It's not a trivial distinction, because most reports show Ukrainians have been eager to volunteer to stand in defense of their country.

Indeed, you will see this account repeated as if this incident was the norm. Here's the publication who took this journo's report verbatim, without any qualification:

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/world-news/ukrainian-men-conscripted-spot-refugees-23218859

I think this is lousy journalism, maybe fit for a blog, but not verifiable news.

[ancianita]

55. Okay. I hear you.

I didn't either, but I did read more than one report about grieving, crying women who had to leave their men. To me, the spirit of the situation still merits belief about how, at best, this attack is terrifying to all.

Imagine what we'd be going through if Trump were still prez. Know who'd already have gotten over the border?

[bigtree]

56. so right, ancianita

...we're very fortunate to have adults in charge.

[PatSeg]

13. K&R

[AllyCat]

23. Yeah, so this guy is being followed and retweeted by every Trumper

On Twitter. They think it shows how evil the Ukrainians are.

[LisaL]

24. He is describing what he saw.

Whether people like it or not. He is advocating for humanitarian aid.

“They should turn their eyes right now to the fullest possible humanitarian aid for those on the road right now."

https://www.thenational.scot/news/national/19952584.i-walked-poland-thousands-embark-harrowing-43-mile-walk-border/

[AllyCat]

25. Not sure I believe him. Every other tweet I have seen is

Ukrainians volunteering. Videos of people volunteering. Ukraine needs to defend itself and we have a draft as well. If this happened here, the same thing would happen. (Whether we like it or not). If the order has indeed come from their leaders, then they are deserting and being stopped from leaving.

Doesn’t mean Ukraine is evil as this persons other tweets seem to suggest.

[LisaL]

29. There will be people who are volunteering and there will be people who are not.

I don't find that strange.

[cab67]

44. I agree it might make sense, but...

...other reports I've heard either flat-out contradict this mass-conscription story or are at least inconsistent with it.

[LisaL]

62. Men are not allowed to leave the country.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/25/europe/lviv-refugees-ukraine-war-intl-cmd/index.html

[alittlelark]

57. U R up the right Alley with your thoughts.........

PURE russian Propaganda.

[LisaL]

63. No, it's accurate representation of what is going on.

"Still reeling from the violence, many say they don't know where to go next. It's a question that's been complicated by a new Ukrainian martial law that's been rolled out. Among other restrictions, it prohibits men between the ages of 18 and 60 from leaving the country."

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/25/europe/lviv-refugees-ukraine-war-intl-cmd/index.html

[BobTheSubgenius]

28. "inconsolably happy"

I don't know what to make of that phrase. It's possible that it's poetic.

[stage left]

45. I noted that too

It seems odd.

[BobTheSubgenius]

58. English As Second Language, I reckon.

[stage left]

71. Yeah

[onetexan]

66. My family & i have been in war. I would use that descriptor

Inconsolably happy myself. He is right - the escape is a hellish journey. To find freedom & safety at last is pure relief.

[BobTheSubgenius]

68. That seems to be the only interpretation.

It just seems very odd to put those two words together, especially as the second at the very least blunts the first, if not contradicts it.

Anyway, I just found it odd, and a wee bit profound in its contrariness.

[KS Toronado]

32. This could easily be Russian propaganda

[L. Coyote]

43. FFS! This IS the real life experience of an American journalist on the ground in a war.

Maybe do a tiny bit of research before speculating. Like, give him a phone call or something.
Or just one simple search online, is that too much for you before doing a hit and run?

Time for another report, this one from Manny Marotta who worked at JURIST, a publication specializing in law and human rights”

Between August and December of this year I was fortunate enough to work at JURIST, a legal news journal that acts in companionship with the University of Pittsburgh school of law. It was one of the first online legal journals in the nation and it presently ranks among the largest, and so I was proud to be in its employ.

Link to tweet

[LisaL]

67. Some on DU are just as prone to conspiracy theories as

Q people.

[FakeNoose]

33. Let's hope it's temporary, and they can return home SOON!

[cab67]

41. I don't entirely buy it.

Several reports I heard on NPR this morning indicated that reservists have been ordered to stand by, but not all have been mobilized. That argues against mass conscription of the type described here.

[LisaL]

61. Men are not allowed to leave the country.

"The government announced the general mobilization order — which included the male travel ban — while he was on the train. It is a curve ball that could upend his family's future, he said. "And then [we] got off the train and the sirens went off," he said. "I was shocked, because we weren't even told where to take cover. I was shocked because this place is supposed to be safe.""

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/25/europe/lviv-refugees-ukraine-war-intl-cmd/index.html

[TygrBright]

49. Use of the term "commissar" raises some credibility flags, for me. n/t

[Mike Nelson]

60. Hmm...

... toddlers were "forced" to walk... 20 hours? Nobody told toddlers what was "going on"?