Some of Europe has been a disappointment.

[Dirty Heads]

Specifically Germany. The US stepped up hard to support significant sanctions against Russia but Germany playing a tepid approach to support, both financially and militarily to Ukraine, and toward sanctions on Russia, and Italy carving out an exception for luxury goods, is extremely disheartening.

I know it's easy to bag on the US but when we have solid leadership (FDR, Truman, Clinton, Biden), we can be a beacon of greatness internationally.

The fact is, the US stepped up. But Germany and Italy and Hungary have not.

Biden should seriously look at overriding them and kicking Russia out of SWIFT himself.

[PoliticAverse]

1. It isn't a surprise about Germany considering their trade relations with Russia.

"Follow the money".

[Dirty Heads]

3. Yup. Isn't one of their former Chancellor on the board of a Russian corporation?

Maddening.

[PoliticAverse]

9. Yes, Gerhard Schroeder. n/t

[lagomorph777]

2. Agreed we should pull the plug on SWIFT.

[uponit7771]

6. Belgium runs the Swift Network not the US

[lagomorph777]

10. I didn't mean "we" as the US alone (though, yes, OP implies that).

We have a lot of financial clout in Europe. Europe has a lot to lose if they allow Putin's tanks and planes to keep going. We can do this.

[Happy Hoosier]

4. Biden needs to travel to Germany....

And make the Germans own up to their position.

He cannot lead behind the scenes here. Russia wants to make this about U.S. Leadership? Fine. Let's show it.

Time to show that steel backbone Joe. I KNOW you have it. Time for it to shine.

[uponit7771]

5. Belgium runs the SWIFT network not the US

[greatauntoftriplets]

8. details!

[Ohio Joe]

7. That would be an act of war...

And it is why President Biden is not looking to do anything of the sort at this time.

[lagomorph777]

11. Uhhh, the war has already started.

[Ohio Joe]

12. Between Russia and Ukraine... Yes

Between NATO and Russia... No. And locking Russia out of SWIFT would be NATO declaring war on Russia.

[lagomorph777]

13. More than the massive sanctions already being put in?

It's a quantitative difference, not qualitative. And if Putin considers it war, well, let him fight 15 countries who collectively have 40x the military he has. And let him fight it without being able to buy or sell anything outside his own piddling corrupt stunted economy.

[Ohio Joe]

14. So... You want NATO to declare war on Russia?

Sounds pretty insane to take such action at this point. I'll stick with President Biden and the rest of NATO that it is too early for such action.

[lagomorph777]

15. So you are ignoring my point.

Piling on one more sanction is not a declaration of war.

[Ohio Joe]

17. Yeah... It is...

For the U.S. and its European allies, cutting Russia out of the SWIFT financial system would be one of the toughest financial steps they could take, damaging Russia's economy immediately and in the long term. The move could cut Russia off from most international financial transactions, including profits from oil and gas production, which account for more than 40 percent of the country's revenue.

Allies on both sides of the Atlantic also dangled the SWIFT option in 2014, when Russia annexed Crimea and backed separatist forces in eastern Ukraine. Russia declared then that kicking it out of SWIFT would be equivalent to a declaration of war. The allies shelved the idea.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/swift-banking-system-used-sanction-russia-rcna17533

Bolding is mine. President Biden knows it and our NATO allies know it. They would prefer not to declare war at this time and I agree with them.

[Xoan]

18. If what you claim is true, it's no wonder ...

putin thinks the 'allies' are cowards.

[Ohio Joe]

19. You think now is the time for NATO to declare war on Russia?

I'm still going to stand with President Biden and our NATO allies. Putin may think they are cowards... And you seem to agree with him, but I do not. Depending on where things go, it may be required but that time has not yet come.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

16. So you want to turn Europe into a nuclear wasteland?

There are pretty significant factors to consider beyond "We outnumber them." Especially since Putin has already threatened nuclear retaliation.

[58Sunliner]

20. I have no idea how you make such a leap.

Please do not respond. Hyperbole is not fact.

[Ohio Joe]

21. Fact is fact

For the U.S. and its European allies, cutting Russia out of the SWIFT financial system would be one of the toughest financial steps they could take, damaging Russia's economy immediately and in the long term. The move could cut Russia off from most international financial transactions, including profits from oil and gas production, which account for more than 40 percent of the country's revenue.

Allies on both sides of the Atlantic also dangled the SWIFT option in 2014, when Russia annexed Crimea and backed separatist forces in eastern Ukraine. Russia declared then that kicking it out of SWIFT would be equivalent to a declaration of war. The allies shelved the idea.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/swift-banking-system-used-sanction-russia-rcna17533

Bolding is mine. President Biden knows it and our NATO allies know it. They would prefer not to declare war at this time and I agree with them.

[58Sunliner]

22. Russia declared then that kicking it out of SWIFT would be equivalent to a declaration of war.

Ha ha ha ha ha.... Russian talking points. There you go!

[Ohio Joe]

23. It's a Russian threat, not a talking point...

Biden and our NATO allies take it seriously... What are you saying about them?

[58Sunliner]

24. It is not a threat. And Putin voiced that opinion in 2014.

[Ohio Joe]

26. You think it's changed?

And yeah, it is a threat... Just saying 'nuh uh' does not change that fact. Care to address why President Biden and our NATO allies are taking it seriously?

[58Sunliner]

28. LOLLOL please stop.

[Ohio Joe]

29. So... No

I'm shocked.

[JoanofArgh]

25. Ruth Ben Ghiat who wrote Strongmen

said that there are still a lot of Putinistas in Italy left over from Berlusconi's regime.




https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/07/24/silvio-berlusconi-and-vladimir-putin-the-political-bromance-that-endured/

[mcar]

27. Question: Had you ever heard of SWIFT before this week?

[Dirty Heads]

30. Yes. Trump blocked Iran from it a few years ago.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/05/business/dealbook/swift-iran-sanctions.html

[Voltaire2]

31. Sure.

It’s not obscure, it is the mechanism for all international bank transactions.

[Bettie]

32. Yes.

Iran was knocked off of it by TFG.

No one thought it was beyond the pale then.