I'm pissed, however,

[Cyrano]

there's not much we can do militarily. But Biden should loudly and strongly state that any incursion by Putin, of any sort, into the territory of any member of NATO, will be treated as an act of war and we will respond accordingly.

And there's one more thing Biden and NATO can do. Declare Putin an international criminal who must be brought to The Hague to stand trial for crimes against humanity. And anyone who aids and abets Putin will be treated in the same manner.

Do you suppose Tucker Carlson and Trump can be viewed as aiding and abetting Putin? I don't think that's too big a jump to make, but you know that neither of them will suffer any consequences. When are Democrats going to get a pair of balls and mercilessly rip into these fuckers? (Whew, just lost it there for a moment.)

[Atticus]

1. I, for one, totally understand your "pissedoffness". Hang on. Your anger is shared and needed. nt

[Moostache]

2. NATO and the UN should declare Zelensky must be allowed exile

Russian capture and torture or outright assassination should be an equivalent attack on the western world order to trigger a full military response. This is not a simple dispute on borders or access or ideology, it is an outright attack on the governing balance that held peace from 1945 to 2022 and produced the greatest influx of wealth and living conditions in human history. We cannot stand by and idly watch that attacked without a response.

If Zelensky is killed, then the war must proceed until Putin is captured, tried and imprisoned or takes his own life like the coward he is - and YES, THAT hyperbole is meant to rattle Putin's anonymous squad of trolls too..,.

[dalton99a]

3. Biden Says U.S. Will Defend 'Every Inch' of NATO Territory

[Bayard]

4. I think Biden already said that

And is sending more troops to the borders.

[Cheezoholic]

5. Biden and NATO have warned putrid

Thats part of the reason they are moving forces into forward positions in the NATO nations bordering Ukraine along with re-assuring those nations NATO has their back. Biden said in his speech yesterday that the US and NATO will protect every inch of NATO territory along Ukraine with all the power they have.

[uponit7771]

7. "putrid" 👈🏾

[Ocelot II]

6. Biden doesn't have to say anything; Putin knows that under NATO's Article 5,

an act of aggression against any NATO member will be considered an act of aggression against the entire alliance. As far as prosecuting TFG and Carlson for statements in support of Putin, that's stickier. It depends on whether making those statements can be construed as giving aid and comfort to an enemy. The legal definition of treason is in the Constitution: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court." What, exactly, is "aid and comfort"? Is flapping your gums on TV enough? "Aid and comfort" is generally defined as: "Any act that deliberately strengthens or tends to strengthen enemies of the United States, or that weakens or tends to weaken the power of the United States to resist and attack such enemies is characterized as aid and comfort." Nothing will shut up TFG because he's nuts, but Tuckyo Rose is basically just a performance artist and he might get enough of a clue to step back from the edge.

[Ohio Joe]

8. NATO has made a strong statement

From the end of NATO's statement on the attack on Ukraine:

Throughout this crisis, NATO, the Allies, and our partners have made every effort to pursue diplomacy and dialogue with Russia, including at the highest levels, and made many substantive proposals to enhance the security of all nations in the Euro-Atlantic region. We have repeatedly invited Russia to talks in the NATO-Russia Council. Russia has still not reciprocated. It is Russia, and Russia alone, which has chosen escalation.

Russia’s actions pose a serious threat to Euro-Atlantic security, and they will have geostrategic consequences. NATO will continue to take all necessary measures to ensure the security and defence of all Allies. We are deploying additional defensive land and air forces to the eastern part of the Alliance, as well as additional maritime assets. We have increased the readiness of our forces to respond to all contingencies.

Today, we have held consultations under Article 4 of the Washington Treaty. We have decided, in line with our defensive planning to protect all Allies, to take additional steps to further strengthen deterrence and defence across the Alliance. Our measures are and remain preventive, proportionate and non-escalatory.

Our commitment to Article 5 of the Washington Treaty is iron-clad. We stand united to defend each other.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/official_texts_192404.htm

[Cyrano]

10. Yeah, but

most people don't have a clue as to the details of the NATO alliance.

It's time for Joe Biden to dig deep into himself and (perhaps during the State of the Union address) show some passion, and make it clear that he's not going to put up with Putin's aggression (or his American sympathizers).

Churchill didn't say, "We're going to fight the Germans." He said, "We shall fight them on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, ... "

Joe, people need to be inspired. Turn off the teleprompter and display some strong emotions. Especially anger.

[MineralMan]

9. I'm hesitant to make statements about what Biden should or must do.

I'm always mindful that Russia has a major arsenal of nuclear weapons and that Putin is, at least, mentally unbalanced. No doubt all of those things are part of considerations about what should or must be done or threatened.

Like most people, I have only very limited knowledge of what our intelligence agencies are presenting to the President. As for Carlson and Trump, they are not actually real players in international affairs - only pretenders. Carlson is a right-wing pundit and Trump is just a former President with no current powers at all.

No doubt, President Biden is listening to experts and taking advice from people with vast experience with Russia, Putin, and international affairs. So, I'm just here watching to see what transpires.

NATO, too, is its own thing, and I have precious little knowledge of what NATO leaders are thinking. On the other hand, President Biden is in contact with all of them and is a principal in their discussions.

As I said, I'm not competent to suggest what should or must be done, so I do not make such suggestions. I'm not sure "a pair of balls" is of much use at the moment, frankly.

[Cyrano]

11. Please read post #10 above,

which I didn't get posted before your take on the situation.

[MineralMan]

12. Again, I do not advise Presidents about doing anything.

I'm not qualified to do so, nor are you, I suspect. Now, I don't know that you are not qualified, but I do suspect that to be the case.

I have read your #10, and it's just more of the same.

[Cyrano]

14. Sorry. I guess I thought that charisma and

the ability to inspire people were valuable assets.

[MineralMan]

16. Well, those things might inspire you and some others.

However, it's not you who is involved in the current situation in real time. So, inspiring you will not alter the situation one bit. President Biden has been speaking almost daily about this misbegotten invasion by Putin's military. That is his public response. What he is doing that is not public is not public for a very good reason.

Truly, what is happening in Ukraine is not a matter of politics and posturing. It is a real conflict, led by someone who is mentally unbalanced. That makes it a very dangerous situation, indeed, since that unbalanced person also controls a large arsenal of nuclear weapons. Much thought is going into the responses from NATO nations, including the United States. You and I are not privy to the planning, nor will we be consulted in any way.

Our advice, in short, is not needed.

[Wounded Bear]

13. No need for talk, no matter how 'strongly worded.' We have moved troops...

to NATO countries bordering on Russia. Been doing that for a couple of weeks.

We've done our talking to our allies, bringing them in and getting help and getting them to make similar moves.

Pres Biden is doing well so far.

[MineralMan]

15. People are frustrated because they feel helpless to do anything.

So, they start giving advice to Presidents, for some unknown reason.

Seems to me that our President is busy right now doing things and setting the stage for things. I don't think he needs any amateur advice at the moment. If he does, he can come to DU, where plenty of it can be found.

[Wounded Bear]

17. Everybody is an internet genius these days...

all mousing around and doing their own "research" on science, medicine, sports, politics, world events, etc. It permeates all fields and disciplines. This is just another example of it.

[MineralMan]

18. I'm not. I do not know what the best plan of action is.

Despite having a background in military intelligence many years ago, what I learned from that is how much I do not know.

On another thread, there is someone who is saying, more or less, "Let's put all the cards on the table and, if there is a nuclear conflict, so be it." That's just reckless nonsense, from someone who has no clue as to what that would mean.

That's sort of the nature of amateur advice. Such advice is almost always poorly considered, lacking in real information, and given off the top of someone's head who is completely unqualified to offer any advice at all.

I'm never surprised to hear it, but am always ready to say that it is stupid advice, based on nothing but an emotional response.

So, since I do not know all of the information that is available to our nation's leaders and military experts, I have no advice to offer. I know the limits of my information and background knowledge. I'm necessarily leaving it to those who have more information and knowledge than I do. I'm just glad that it's Biden and not Trump in the White House.

[Wounded Bear]

19. Indeed! I'm the same...I'm just glad we have some adults in charge for this...

[MineralMan]

20. Yup.

[chowder66]

21. It would also be difficult to give advice because there are many members in NATO and

they have to be taken into consideration.
I can't begin to imagine the type of coordination that would take between countries and yet they do it.

[MineralMan]

22. I think there is a system in place with NATO.

Everyone involved has a voice. Fortunately, everyone also has some common goals, so that helps, too.

[iemanja]

23. Biden did announce that yesterday

He said that if there were an invasion into a NATO country, NATO, including the US, would respond with all their military might. Did you not think the statement strong enough?

I disagree about proclaiming that Putin should be put on trial at the Hague. If he thinks that's already a certainty, he will go scorched earth in Ukraine. He'll think, "If I'm already declared a war criminal, I might as well go for it."