MAGA argument is "Putin didn't invade Ukraine under Trump. Which means he saw Trump as strong."

[CousinIT]

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Common MAGA argument is “Putin didn’t invade Ukraine under Trump. Which means he saw Trump as strong.” Nonsense. Under Trump he didn’t have to invade. Trump was doing more to remove the NATO threat than an invasion could.

Trump sought to draw down the US troop presence in NATO by a lot. Trump had plans to pull out of NATO altogether in term two. Trump regularly attacked NATO allies and sowed dissension.

(See the relations between Trump’s ambassador to Germany and the Germans.) And recall Trump was actually impeached for withholding vital aid from Ukraine.

Putin didn’t invade Ukraine under Trump because during his term of office Putin’s best plan for weakening NATO was Trump.

And don’t give me this nonsense Trump was strengthening NATO by forcing them to pay more line. He didn’t even understand how NATO financing worked. He attacked their spending as a way to attack the idea of the alliance. And the 2% commitment idea preexisted Trump by a lot.

And don’t say Trump was tough on Russia (he was the opposite). Or that he gave Ukraine weapons. That was done on the initiative of others and often against his protests behind the scenes.

In fact senior officials who wanted to be tough on Trump often tried to work those issues behind his back/without his involvement. No, for four years Trump was Putin’s wrecking ball for the Western Alliance—on many levels.

[DemUnleashed]

1. Aside...

Aside from everything Mr Rothkopf is saying, we can now, in present day, know that things would not have been better under Trump. Trump is currently saying what Putin is doing is genius and savvy. That means Trump likes what Putin is doing. So if he likes it, why in the world would he have done anything to stop it??

[FakeNoose]

2. Except for the fact that none of this is true

Pootie didn't invade because he KNEW that Chump was going to pull the US out of NATO as soon as he was safely re-elected. Had Chump actually done that, it would have been the end of NATO. I believe it was what they discussed in that secret 2018 Helsinki meeting. Remember the one I'm talking about? To this day NOBODY knows what was discussed in that meeting.

After the election was over and Pootie knew that Chump had failed to be re-elected, then he started making other plans. Joe Biden will never pull out of NATO of course, nor will any US president ever in the future.

Pootie had all his evil eggs in the basket called Chump. And just like that ... it was over.

[JasonMain]

3. Trump would have armed the Russians and handed over Europe by now.

Putin was coming for Ukraine regardless and was just waiting for a Trump re-election.

[doc03]

4. Well didn't Manafort work on installing the last pro-Russia

dictator in Ukraine before joining the Trump campain.

[J_William_Ryan]

5. Putin didn't invade Ukraine under Trump

because he knew it would have the effect of undermining and destabilizing Trump, whom Putin perceived as an ally and supporter.

Putin invaded Ukraine under Biden because he knew it would have the effect of undermining and destabilizing Biden, whom Putin perceives as a threat.

Putin’s invasion of Ukraine is in part, and in essence, an effort by Putin to interfere in both the 2022 Midterms and the 2024 General Election, intended to put a Republican in the WH sympathetic to Putin.

[JasonMain]

10. Putin was going to invade Ukraine regardless...

Whether it was a Trump 2nd term or a Democratic president 1st term. He literally believes Ukraine is not an actual country and that it is Russias destiny to take it back.

[EarlG]

6. Trump spent four years undermining Ukraine and promoting Russian interests

Trump's campaign manager was a pro-Putin stooge who previously helped the Kremlin install a puppet government in Ukraine.

Trump repeatedly stated that Putin was a stronger leader than U.S. presidents.

Trump changed the Republican Party platform to water down support for U.S. assistance to Ukraine.

Trump attempted to extort Zelenskyy by refusing to provide assistance to Ukraine.

Trump repeatedly praised Putin on the world stage and wanted him back in the G8.

Trump publicly stated that he trusted Putin more than he trusted U.S. intelligence agencies.

Trump undermined NATO to the point where he was threatening to completely pull the U.S. out of the treaty, which would have been Putin's dream scenario.

Even now Trump is sitting on the sidelines cheering on Putin as he invades Ukraine.

Putin didn't need to invade Ukraine when Trump was president because Trump was already giving him everything he wanted on a silver plate. If Trump had won re-election, there's a good chance that he would have actually tried to pull the U.S. out of NATO, which would have left Europe completely at Putin's mercy. Why would Putin invade when there was a chance that could have happened?

Putin only chose now to invade because after four years of Trump's weak leadership, Biden was rebuilding international support against Russia. Putin's invasion is an act of desperation.

[gratuitous]

7. SOP for these nitwits

Throwing all kinds of shit at the wall to see what sticks. The notion that the former guy was tough on Putin can be blown away by a simple citation to Helsinki, where the former guy explicitly said he trusted Putin's unsubstantiated word over his own intelligence agencies.

[Firestorm49]

8. Correct, because eventually, Trump would have found a way to amass billions by

“selling” Ukraine to Putin without a battle. Yes, I know. Stupid comment, but it is meant in jest.

[gulliver]

9. Yep, Putin's not going to fight someone who's on his side

Putin sees Biden, NATO, and the free countries of Europe as his enemies. Trump he sees as a friend. Trump, of course, sees Putin as a friend and an inspiration.

[oregonjen]

11. Not as a friend, a puppet

Just how much money does trump owe to Putin and other Russian oligarchs?

[gulliver]

13. True

And I do hope we find out just how much the Trump org, Putin, and the Russian oligarchs scratched each other's backs

[Eyeball_Kid]

12. The further in time we get from Trump's presidency,

the more solid the assertion that Trump is/was, indeed, a Russian agent. The proof will continue to bubble up. The meme that Trump was the worst president ever will no longer appear as hyperbole. He is a traitor who helped the US' enemies. He intentionally destroyed alliances to strengthen Russia. He tried to elevate Putin onto the world stage. Further, he strengthened anti-US sentiments and political alliances in our own country. The damage he did will be felt for decades. The only question that will remain is: why wasn't he arrested for the crimes of seditious conspiracy and fraud against the United States?

[Johonny]

14. No one but them sees Trump as a strong leader

Most see him as a moronic con-artist that is way past his prime. He's always been all show, no tell. And his show isn't that hot.

[Midnight Writer]

15. Trump's National Security Advisor was on the phone with Russia as Trump was being sworn in.

Trump tried to sabotage NATO, fired our country's top Russian experts, put Putin's paid buddy Flynn in charge of National Security, removed our entire Joints Chiefs of Staff, negated our weapons treaties with Russia, fought against any sanctions against Russia, publicly groveled for Putin on the international stage, and put Russian sympathizers in top government positions.

Tough on Russia, my ass.

[Johnny2X2X]

16. First impeachment

The first impeachment was about Trump undermining Zelensky and withholding weapons that Ukraine needed to defend itself.

Trump would have pulled us out of NATO and helped Russia invade Ukraine.

[irisblue]

17. Thanks for this. My nephew by marriage is not much for critical thinking skills

I'm sure this will eventually come up.

[tanyev]

18. Which means he saw Trump handing Ukraine to him on a silver platter.