The fact we are cooperating with Russia on the space program is madness

[DemocratSinceBirth]

That is all. Carry on....

[JHB]

1. While we're carrying on, can you suggest how our astronauts on the ISS...

...are supposed to get home without walking?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. The person in charge of it threatened to blow it up.

For rhe second time. The first time was in 2014. I don't think they've been up there eight years.

[JHB]

3. That doesn't answer the question.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. Once it returns to earth we go our separate ways

The NAZIS were interested in rocketry too. Space exploration isn't synonymous with rocketry but it's close enough. I wouldn't have recommended working with them either.

[JHB]

11. I don't think that part is in dispute anymore, since the ISS is being retired and...

...NASA's new heavy-lifers are starting to come on line.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. Our weapons are killing their soldiers.

I don't know why they would like to continue working with us either.

[former9thward]

5. Should we end the space program?

Until very recently we have had to depend on Russia to transport astronauts to the station.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. If it's dependent on working with a fascist regime that invades its neighbors I would say yes

[electric_blue68]

6. No... Not every Russian is going along with Putin... The Astronauts and Cosmonauts are there to

do their work and advance human knowledge in various ways.

The Association of Space Explorers consists of
current, and former astronauts, and cosmonauts. It was formed by both groups.
The bulk in the earlier years were Americans AND Russians. In fact it started about 5+ years before the fall of The Soviet Union.

Now it has 400 astronauts, and cosmonauts from
35 different countries.

[denbot]

7. Didn't one of the "Indy" company jut dock at the SST?

[JI7]

8. Why ? The scientists most likely don't even support Putin

Russia is not the enemy . Putin is .

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. Then they should emigrate.

Their government has invaded an infinitely weaker and smaller neighbor and implicitly threatened destruction of any nation that intervenes.

[JI7]

12. THat's easy to say . Not so easily done . People have family and lives. How about telling that to

Americans when Bush and Trump were in office ?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. If we would have invaded Canada or Mexico I might have emigrated.

And if terrorists killed 4,000 Russians and Ukraine was harboring them I would have supported a Russian invasion of them.

[CrackityJones75]

51. Simplistic thinking.

why doesn’t a massive country just get up and leave if they don’t like it.

Gimme a break.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

52. No need to get personal. This is a beloved community.

As an aside Russia and Belarus are banned from the Beijing Paralympics. Those athletes are more worthy of our.sympathy.

[USALiberal]

31. Lol, ok!! Nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

34. I'm ecstatic I interrupted your ennui.

[LisaL]

32. Emigrate where?

Is US going to take them?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. They are leading engineers and scientists. Multiple nations would offer them refuge.

[BlackSkimmer]

40. Most people don't want to just up and leave their country, their home, their relatives, their lives.

It’s not that easy.

[Bobstandard]

14. Nations should be working together...

Not going to war. Examples of international cooperation should be honored and emulated. Examples of international conflict condemned, resisted, and ended.

Call me Pollyanna

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. The NAZIS were interested in rocketry.

Should we have cooperated with them?

[former9thward]

22. If we had not used Nazi scientists after WW II we would have been decades behind the USSR

in missile development. That would not have worked out too well...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. I'm familiar with the work of Werner von Braun and how he was treated like a hero here.

A Faustan Bargain for sure but in that instance you could at least argue the end justifies the means. I'm not convinced that argument can be made in the current instance.

[former9thward]

24. Actually as far as the space station goes i agree with you.

I don't think much useful is being done anymore there and we should end it. If Ukraine is needed for an excuse then so be it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. When Bush and Obama reached out to Russia I supported it, of course.

It's better to make friends than enemies but our interests diverged . Putin has said the disollution of the Soviet empire was the greatest catastrophe of the twentieth century.In retrospect maybe we will say it was inevitable. I don't see how two nations as diametrically opposed as we are can cooperate on something as sensitive as space exploration. I don't think they want to work with us anymore either.

[raging moderate]

16. Or maybe we could just become less dependent on the Russians?

I have always thought that we should have built our own space station (or our own wing of the space station), built by the US and maybe our allies. It feels like we are not pulling our own weight in this program, in the infrastructure and transportation aspects. And it was sad, several years ago, when Putin was angry at the US and was able to threaten to stop our scientists from being allowed to travel to the space station. NASA should have been more fully funded, a long time ago. They have done magnificently, with what they have been given. Imagine what they could do with a little more funding. Plus, if the first space station suddenly got disabled, wouldn't it be good to have a second space station nearby?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. The loon in charge of the program mused about letting it fall from the sky.

Last edited Sun Feb 27, 2022, 01:27 AM - Edit history (1)

I assume it's idle musings but should we work with those people?

[BlackSkimmer]

41. When did this happen?

I was unaware of this. Is there a link?

[FSogol]

42. see below. The Russian Space chief gave a rant about it on twitter.

https://gizmodo.com/dmitry-rogozin-roscosmos-us-sanctions-iss-crash-into-ea-1848599213

[BlackSkimmer]

44. Thanks, I'll check it out.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

43. Voila

After President Joe Biden announced new sanctions Thursday that “will degrade their (Russia’s) aerospace industry, including their space program,” Roscosmos Director General Dmitry Rogozin said on Twitter that the station’s orbit and location in space are controlled by Russian engines.

“If you block cooperation with us, who will save the International Space Station (ISS) from an uncontrolled deorbit and fall into the United States or…Europe?” Rogozin said. “There is also the possibility of a 500-ton structure falling on India and China. Do you want to threaten them with such a prospect? The ISS does not fly over Russia, therefore all the risks are yours. Are you ready for them?”

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/24/politics/russian-space-agency-us-sanctions-international-space-station/index.html

[BlackSkimmer]

45. Thanks! nt

[Spider Jerusalem]

19. No, it's simple common sense, or was

since Russia was the only other country besides the US with an active crewed space launch program they made a natural partner for NASA and the European Space Agency in creating and maintaining the International Space Station (and the demise of the space shuttle program and the lack of a replacement crewed launch vehicle meant Soyuz was the only option).

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. Was

It might have made sense before Putin decided to fulfill his revanchist dreams and literally threatened "the worst consequences in history" to any entity that interferes.

[raging moderate]

26. Yeah, but maybe that could change.

Maybe we should resurrect the space shuttle program and work toward building a launch vehicle or two, plus another International Space Station.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. Show me what a nation spends money on and I'll show you what it values.

If we value space exploration we should be able to fund it without cooperating with a fascist power.

[raging moderate]

38. Right you are!

This is an important goal, and we should be able to achieve it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

39. How can one turn on the news and believe they are worthy partners?

[raging moderate]

54. Yes, as I said, we should build our own space station.

You are certainly right!

[Metaphorical]

20. The Russians Space Program

was essential in keeping the US in space after the Challenger disaster grounded the fleet. However, it can be argued that it also spurred the rise of the commercial space carriers like SpaceX, and is likely to see multiple national stations in LEO (low Earth orbit) within the next couple of decades. It's worth remembering that the ISS was itself an experiment, one intended to study the feasibility of LEO space stations, and the experiment has proven to be relatively successful. The Chinese are expected to launch their own space station before 2030, the US have five different space stations in the works (the public Lunar Gateway and the private Axiom, Starlab, and Orbital Reef stations, along with another TBD), the Russians are planning on two (ROSS and LOS (a lunar orbiting station)) and the Indians have one (through ISRO).

Be careful not to confuse the Russians with Putin. I work regularly with a colleague in Chechnya, and he's as angry and appalled by this as most in the West are.

[hunter]

27. Scientific cooperation is a positive thing compared to the Russian fossil fuel exports...

... Europe is dependent on.

These Russian fossil fuel exports are specifically exempted from the upcoming SWIFT sanctions.

Germany is particularly sensitive as it has relies on Russia for two thirds of its gas supply. It also feels it has already "taken one for the team" by suspending the certification of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, built to transport gas from Russia to Germany.

Authorities in US, Europe and the UK appear to have agreed a way to minimise these vulnerabilities by excluding the banks least involved in energy transactions or finding a way of filtering transactions to allow through energy and food payments.

--more--

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60543995

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. We are trying to sanction them back into the Stone Age.

Our weapons are literally killing their soldiers. Putin has put his nuclear weapons on high alert in response to what he calls NATO provocations. Are those conditions for cooperation on anything, especially something as sensitive as space exploration?

[hunter]

33. What's so "sensitive" about space exploration?

I doubt the Russians are developing any super-secret weapons technology on a 23 year old space platform while their fellow scientists from other nations are sleeping.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

37. If it's of limited utility as you suggest why fret about it?

[USALiberal]

30. Hit and run?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. You should report it to the authorities. It's a crime in every jurisdiction I'm aware of.

[BlackSkimmer]

46. And why are we not banning Russian oil?

Ashamed to say, I only learned this today.

I don’t get it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

47. I read Nancy Pelosi recommended just that.

[BlackSkimmer]

49. Yes, that's probably the same story I read.

That seems like an easy decision, considering everything going on?

[JasonMain]

48. Must be so awkward right now on ISS.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

53. I imagine they can't wait to get home

[milestogo]

50. Its part of the worldwide scientific community, not a fight club.