HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » It looks like out NATO al...

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 04:10 PM

It looks like out NATO allies are doing more than we are

As far a sanctions are concerned. They are restricting airspace, have agreed to ban the us of SWIFT and we have not announced those yet. Why? Biden must have a reason. That said, no one could have brought our allies together the way Biden has.

50 replies, 1949 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 50 replies Author Time Post
Reply It looks like out NATO allies are doing more than we are (Original post)
BlueLucy Feb 2022 OP
Ocelot II Feb 2022 #1
Tetrachloride Feb 2022 #2
BlueLucy Feb 2022 #9
Tetrachloride Feb 2022 #17
hunter Feb 2022 #49
Kittycatkat Feb 2022 #3
TheRealNorth Feb 2022 #4
jrthin Feb 2022 #5
Mad_Machine76 Feb 2022 #6
bigtree Feb 2022 #7
BlueLucy Feb 2022 #10
crickets Feb 2022 #48
imaginary girl Feb 2022 #8
Dirty Heads Feb 2022 #11
BlueLucy Feb 2022 #14
Samrob Feb 2022 #12
Tomconroy Feb 2022 #13
BlueLucy Feb 2022 #16
Hekate Feb 2022 #15
MineralMan Feb 2022 #18
iemanja Feb 2022 #19
BlueLucy Feb 2022 #20
iemanja Feb 2022 #22
BlueLucy Feb 2022 #30
Lancero Feb 2022 #21
iemanja Feb 2022 #23
Lancero Feb 2022 #26
iemanja Feb 2022 #28
OnDoutside Feb 2022 #31
Lancero Feb 2022 #38
Celerity Feb 2022 #40
Lancero Feb 2022 #41
Celerity Feb 2022 #43
Lancero Feb 2022 #44
Celerity Feb 2022 #45
Post removed Feb 2022 #46
Celerity Feb 2022 #47
OnDoutside Feb 2022 #42
BlueLucy Feb 2022 #35
hunter Feb 2022 #50
mcar Feb 2022 #24
pinkstarburst Feb 2022 #25
Iggo Feb 2022 #27
uponit7771 Feb 2022 #29
BlackSkimmer Feb 2022 #33
uponit7771 Feb 2022 #37
BlackSkimmer Feb 2022 #39
roamer65 Feb 2022 #32
FakeNoose Feb 2022 #34
BlueLucy Feb 2022 #36

Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 04:11 PM

1. What do you think we should be doing?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 04:13 PM

2. Same as World War 2. Roosevelt had to drag some public opinion to support Britain

Biden is working behind the scenes.

Remember the American submarine that allegedly appeared inside Russian waters ?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tetrachloride (Reply #2)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 04:25 PM

9. I thought Russia made that up.

It could be true but they can never ne trusted.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueLucy (Reply #9)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 04:32 PM

17. The Battle of Britain was supplied by America but

the US was officially neutral for over 2 years.

https://www.historynet.com/a-few-americans-in-the-battle-of-britain/

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tetrachloride (Reply #2)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 11:29 PM

49. Hitler and the Roosevelt didn't have atomic weapons then...

... or the means to deliver them anywhere within the hour. Containing Putin will require a deft touch.

Putin got this plan to rebuild the Soviet Empire rolling expecting Trump would be President.

Thanks to Biden it's blowing up in his face.

Voting matters.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 04:14 PM

3. NATO works a unit.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 04:16 PM

4. My guess is the Ukranian Military being fed a TON of military intel by us.

And there are good reasons to keep any weapons we are sending them on the down low.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 04:17 PM

5. That's not true. Which country do you think is doing the heavy lifting

in the background. US(A)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 04:20 PM

6. Don't suppose

it has something to do with European countries being closer? Not a ton we can do but organizing international support against Russia is important. Anything more might be risking escalation, which I think we can all agree that we don't want, right?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 04:21 PM

7. the US is being smart letting Europe take the lead

...as most of the sanctions affect European nations' ties with Russian oil and other goods before it hurts the U.S..

I also think anything which avoids making this primarily a US/Russia confrontation is the right way to go.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bigtree (Reply #7)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 04:27 PM

10. Good point.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bigtree (Reply #7)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 11:14 PM

48. Excellent point.

We've been putting manpower, arms, and money toward Ukraine from the beginning. Most importantly, we've been providing intelligence. But we've been doing it quietly. It's not usually our style, but I kinda like it. Steps like sanctions are getting put into place, allies are standing up all over the world. As you rightly pointed out, this is a Eurocentric situation, and not turning into a US v. Russia thing is smart. Letting Europe take the lead is the right way to go.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 04:25 PM

8. Egos

This is the kind of coordination you only get when people are willing to set their own egos aside and work for the good of the team, even if somebody else gets the glory, imo.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 04:27 PM

11. This is not true. The US already backed removing Russia from SWIFT.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/26/politics/biden-ukraine-russia-swift/index.html

As for restricting airspace? That's a token gesture like removing vodka from liquor stores. It sounds nice but it's not very significant.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dirty Heads (Reply #11)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 04:29 PM

14. Oh good! Thank you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 04:28 PM

12. That's a good thing. They liver over there. We will rise if we have to. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 04:28 PM

13. Probably a good thing to let europe lead for now but I suspect

Joe is on the phone a lot. Our time to lead may come.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tomconroy (Reply #13)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 04:31 PM

16. That's true. Thank Goodness we have Biden at the helm.

I can't imagine anyone doing any better other than maybe Hillary.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 04:31 PM

15. As I understand it, there is no NATO without the US. Trump tried to withdraw us (and could not)...

Trump tried to degrade and destroy NATO, one of the greatest alliances ever.

When Joe Biden came into office, one of the first things he did was visit/confer with both EU and NATO and tell them, “America is back.” Then he set to work to restore our place in NATO and and our relationship with the EU. And that is why we have a NATO alliance to work with right now.

As far as the current crisis is going, Biden and the Biden admin have been fully engaged in negotiations from the start. Part of the negotiating process was to make it clear what consequences there would be if Putin rejected all offers. Part of the process was Joe Biden announcing to the world what American intelligence had found out about Putin’s intentions, including their well-developed plans for false flag operations.

When negotiations went no place and American intel showed Putin proceeding with war prep, Joe started rolling out sanctions. As far as I can tell, they are phased, giving each phase time to be arranged and when implemented, time to sink in.

From the start, the sanctions have included far more than restriction of airspace. Even if your only source of news is DU, you should be aware that they are absolutely massive.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 04:33 PM

18. What's Your Basis for That Statement?

In what way do you think they are doing more? I believe you are incorrect, but if you have actual information, please link to it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 04:38 PM

19. Because our air space isn't near the war

And the US did announce SWIFT restrictions. It's not Biden's fault you don't keep current.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to iemanja (Reply #19)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 05:23 PM

20. Huh?

I think Biden is doing a great job. You don't have to be rude. It was just a question. I was not saying I'm unhappy with Biden.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueLucy (Reply #20)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 06:23 PM

22. Both of the criticisms you indicated

are inaccurate.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to iemanja (Reply #22)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 07:53 PM

30. Good. I'm glad to hear it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 06:21 PM

21. Not really. Some NATO countries - Germany comes to mind - are actively funding Russia's war effort.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lancero (Reply #21)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 06:31 PM

23. Germany blocked a gas pipeline from Russia

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to iemanja (Reply #23)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 07:11 PM

26. Yes, they halted a pipeline that isn't currently used...

Nothing towards active lines that pump billions of dollars into the Russian economy, and help keep their military afloat.

But hey, lets get some more current numbers then...

https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/2022/02/PE22_N010_51.html#:~:text=In%202021%2C%20Germany%20imported%20in,of%20all%20imports%20from%20Russia.

Damn, 19.4 billion euros. They're bankrolling even more of Russia's military than I first thought.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lancero (Reply #26)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 07:16 PM

28. That sucks. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lancero (Reply #26)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 07:54 PM

31. You're missing a lot of nuance there. Germany were reluctant to do anything at all because they

depended on the gas coming from Nordstream 1, which was largely the reason why the EU haven't responded sooner to the whole Putin "play". Putin was pushing Nordstream 2 to double capacity and bring it through a non Ukraine route, which would potentially have pressurised Ukraine.

However now that Putin has invaded Ukraine, it has finally woken them up to the fact that they allowed themselves to become reliant on gas from an authoritarian regime. This was a huge miscalculation by Putin because now Germany is going to rapidly push renewable energy. Chancellor Scholz made a speech in parliament outlining their response, which includes immediately spending €100bn on upgrading their defense force and spending 2% of GDP from now on



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OnDoutside (Reply #31)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 08:17 PM

38. So, they are ending Russian gas imports then? Stopping the flow of money...

That Russia is using to fund their war effort?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lancero (Reply #38)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 08:25 PM

40. Explainer: Why Russia drives European gas prices

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/why-russia-drives-european-gas-prices-2022-01-21/

LONDON, Feb 24 (Reuters) - European gas prices surged more than 30% on Thursday after Russian forces launched an invasion of Ukraine. Below outlines why Russia has so much impact on Europe's gas markets, even in countries that Russia does not supply directly.

HOW MUCH GAS DOES RUSSIA SUPPLY?

Europe relies on Russia for around 40% of its natural gas. The bulk comes through pipelines including Yamal, which crosses Belarus and Poland to Germany, Nord Stream 1, which runs directly to Germany, and pipelines through Ukraine. A network of interconnecting pipelines links Europe’s internal gas markets.

Not all countries get supply directly from Russia, but if countries such as Germany, the biggest consumer of Russian gas, receive less from Russia, they must replace this from elsewhere, for instance, Norway, which has a knock-on effect on available gas for other countries.

As a result, news on Russian supplies triggers as much volatility in British gas prices as in those in continental Europe, even though Britain typically gets less than 5% of its gas from Russia. Lower overall Russian supply to Europe means less could be available from its largest supplier Norway.

snip

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Celerity (Reply #40)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 08:29 PM

41. So, that's a no then.

Pity. Who cares how much Ukrainian blood is spilt, so long as gas is cheap right?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lancero (Reply #41)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 08:34 PM

43. figure out a way to replace it now (it is winter here) and I am sure something can be done

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Celerity (Reply #43)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 08:37 PM

44. Figure out a way to bring the dead back, and you can justify their economic support.

Ukrainian blood, for Russian gas. A deal Germany gladly makes, and a deal many here gladly justify.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lancero (Reply #44)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 08:53 PM

45. Reality is far more complex than some care to admit or accept.

We here in Europe (in toto) have a far bigger population than the US and also have far less natural recourses overall.

Perhaps the US can subsidise and supply all the petrol and natural gas needs of Europe that Russia, at present, supplies. Raise the US consumer prices to European levels to pay for it.

I am sure that will be an easy sell for Biden.



Come up with an actual workable solution and then we can perhaps talk.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Celerity (Reply #45)


Response to Post removed (Reply #46)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 09:02 PM

47. You offer nothing but insults, no solutions.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lancero (Reply #38)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 08:31 PM

42. They can't yet, as 40% of their gas imports come from Russia. However

they have changed their energy policy to massively ramp up renewables. It's a pretty momentous decision.

In any case, the economic sanctions mean that Russia can't do anything with it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lancero (Reply #21)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 08:01 PM

35. Ugg! I had no idea.

This is disappointing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lancero (Reply #21)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 11:44 PM

50. Germany's anti-nuclear left was played.

Germany's aggressive renewable energy schemes, entirely dependent on Russian natural gas, failed.

Plenty of people saw this coming, but maybe not so soon or in such a dramatic fashion.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 06:48 PM

24. This is false

you may want to update your OP.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 06:58 PM

25. I would suspect we may be

doing many things on the down low and just not blasting regular updates out over twitter about things that need to stay, well, secret.

Biden is being smart about this.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 07:12 PM

27. Because Russian military planes don't fly across our airspace?

Maybe I don’t understand the question.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 07:16 PM

29. There are a lot of Putler supporting Republicans in America

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to uponit7771 (Reply #29)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 08:00 PM

33. What is it with this "putler" thing you got going?

I think his real name is evil enough. No real need to combine it with another evil from history.

“Putler” sounds like a pet name for a puppy dog lol.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlackSkimmer (Reply #33)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 08:09 PM

37. Poot-ler, recognized OS Intel name for Putin

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to uponit7771 (Reply #37)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 08:18 PM

39. How can it be an intel name if everyone knows it?

Why would they make it longer than his actual name? How odd.

Still sounds like a puppy dog name to me, sorry. Every time I see it, I think of my sister’s dog she used to call Pupler as a wee thing.

I only see you using it, so I just wondered.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 07:56 PM

32. We don't have Russian fighter planes to give Ukraine.

But we are sending anti-tank and STINGERS.

…and bankrolling a LOT of the effort.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueLucy (Original post)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 08:00 PM

34. The USA pays high annual dues to NATO, compared to smaller less-wealthy countries

Our stake is high, and if we're asked to do more I'm sure we'll come through. Joe Biden and Kamala Harris have both made multiple trips to Europe recently to show solidarity with NATO and Ukraine. We can do more and we will, if it's asked of us.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FakeNoose (Reply #34)

Sun Feb 27, 2022, 08:06 PM

36. After Trump's attempt to divide us

and distance us from our European allies I am so very grateful for Biden and Harris.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread