This message was self-deleted by its author

[Mary in S. Carolina]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Mary in S. Carolina) on Mon Mar 14, 2022, 11:35 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[A HERETIC I AM]

1. So the European vacation I have been saving up for years....

I should just toss away?


Yeah.


No.

[marmar]

3. Marriott's not the only hotel chain in Europe.

[A HERETIC I AM]

14. It is if it's the only one you can stay at for free.

I’m not rich.

The points I have accumulated mean that I can have a great vacation for an affordable price.

Otherwise it’s not doable.

And the assumption that I somehow support white supremacy if I don’t reject the benefits I have accrued from years of business travel is ridiculous and absurd.

[drmeow]

15. I see this as supporting the OP

Get your free stuff THEN stop using them! Boycotting costs them money - giving you a free room theoretically cost them money (we can argue about the cost of having empty rooms vs giving them away to loyal customers bottom line another time - for now we'll consider it a cost). I call that a win.

[live love laugh]

49. No answer on this one from him. Hmmmm

[A HERETIC I AM]

80. Between the time I saw the post above and responded (9:30 Sunday night)

and the time I saw your post at 3 am, I was on airplanes flying home from the Shenandoah Valley, VA.

What response would you have liked to see?

I'm going to use the points I have accumulated, and after that, I'll stay in any hotel I want, wherever I need to.

I'm not sure what you were expecting me to say.

[live love laugh]

83. ok

[Cuthbert Allgood]

25. Use the points. You're good.

If anything you are costing them money.

And I don't know that there has been any connection from the Marriot in Orlando to any in Europe in this OP. I believe they are all franchised.

[Rob H.]

33. You should be good.

If anything, you’re likely costing them money by cashing in your rewards and staying for free. The ones in Europe might be run by franchisees, anyway.

[Autumn]

63. Enjoy your guilt free vacation. They are your points use them.

Now... What are you bringing me back?

[A HERETIC I AM]

77. I appreciate it.

"Now... What are you bringing me back?"

How about a Puits d'amour from a Patisserie on the Champs-Élysées ?

[Autumn]

108. Oh yes!

[Celerity]

121. Boulangerie Utopie 💙💙💙, just north of Le Marais, right off the Oberkampf Metro stop

20 Rue Jean-Pierre Timbaud, 75011 Paris

[A HERETIC I AM]

123. I just put on ten pounds by merely looking at your post!

There is a TikTok account of a Frenchman who does "One day, One French Snack" and goes to different Patisseries around Paris, showing and tasting various items like you pictured.

It's astonishing the variety as well as the incomparable care taken in the production of these treats. Really wonderful.

[Scrivener7]

4. Really? White supremacy vs. staying at one of a thousand possible hotels on your vacation?

Maybe think that through.

[GoneOffShore]

50. He's using points. Which cost Marriot money. So, no.

And he did think it through, by all accounts.

[RobinA]

75. So, It's OK

for a business to refuse to do business with an entity it disagrees with? Because there's been a lot of discussion around here over the years pillorying people who refuse to do business with people they don't approve of. I guess it depends on whose ox is being gored.

[Scrivener7]

82. With respect to federal law, yes it is OK. Local law may vary for businesses refusing

service to white supremacists. But I guarantee that if the state does not allow a business to turn away white supremacist conventions, and those businesses began hurting as a result of hosting white supremacist conventions, the law would quickly change to allow them to turn away white supremacist conventions.

But it is certainly OK for customers to refuse to vacation where they might be running into a white supremacist convention.

And yep. I really have no problem with that ox being gored.

Call it my religious conviction, and then it's covered by the Supreme Court. Just like bakeries refusing to make cakes for gay weddings.

[Skittles]

5. this is a joke, right?

I mean, UGH

[A HERETIC I AM]

10. I'm a trucker

Last edited Sun Feb 27, 2022, 11:02 PM - Edit history (1)

It has taken me years to build up enough points to make it so I can afford to even consider such a trip.
So I should throw all that away because if I don’t I might offend some DU’ers?

Call me A HERETIC then, because I’m not tossing away what is basically ten grand worth of hotels stays because of what a franchisee has done.

[Scrivener7]

13. No. That's not why you should throw it away. You should throw it away because

you don't want to support a company that is supporting white supremacist groups and giving them places to spread their poison.

Assuming that's something you disagree with. If not, carry on.

[Skittles]

17. how about not saying anything then

instead of proving vacations beat all for you

OVER AND OUT

[A HERETIC I AM]

21. Of course.

Because the definition of “heretic” is the equivalent of “shut the fuck up already”

Why didn’t I think of that?

[Cuthbert Allgood]

23. So what good does not using points do?

He has already spent the money at the hotel. Seems like he would be costing them money by staying there for free.

[Demobrat]

35. By not using the points he would actually be doing THEM a favor.

Airlines and hotel chains hate when people actually use their points to get freebies.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

24. So do we know that the Marriot in Europe is connected to Orlando?

And using points is hardly not supporting democracy.

[live love laugh]

45. Yeah we know.

https://www.marriott.com/marriott/aboutmarriott.mi

[Cuthbert Allgood]

64. Sorry, missed the part on there about whether Orlando is a franchise.

[Tess49]

37. Hope you have a wonderful trip. A European vacation is on my bucket list. n/t

[A HERETIC I AM]

76. Thanks. Still in the planning stages....

And likely won't happen till next year at the earliest (covid restrictions and all).

My family lived in Athens in the 60's and on the way home we traveled up through Italy, over the Alps into Austria, up through Germany and took a side trip to Stockholm before boarding the SS United States in September of '67. I haven't been back to the continent since and I haven't been to Spain, Portugal or France.

So yeah, I am definitely looking forward to it. And you should go as soon as you can!

I appreciate the kind sentiment.

[USALiberal]

39. Lol, ok!

[Demovictory9]

47. no.just dont use the mini bar

[DFW]

54. Those things are ALWAYS too expensive anyway.

Just run across the street and grab something at the local grocery story for a third the price.

[Demovictory9]

56. recently grabbed a diet coke from the mini fridge, purchased one later and replaced it the same day

a $7 dollar charge appeared on my bill at check out that I successfully countered

each drink had a round space that it fit into in this fancy fridge. I think my removal triggered the charge.

[DFW]

60. Many of those things are controlled by computers and sensors.

If you replace something at half the price, just say you picked it up a couple of times, but then changed your mind when you saw the price. Nothing is more believable than that!

[A HERETIC I AM]

81. I think I have used items out of a mini bar maybe 4 times in my entire life.

Much cheaper to just go down to the lobby bar!

[DFW]

53. Go right ahead, and feel no guilt.

You aren't paying for anything you haven't already paid for. Have a great time while you're here!

[A HERETIC I AM]

78. Thanks. I'm looking forward to it.

[CurtEastPoint]

2. Where?

[Busterscruggs]

8. Do they host

Furry conventions? We were kicked out of Seattle a few years ago.

[VarryOn]

9. I can't keep up with all the companies I'm supposed to boycott...

I'm boycotting boycotts. Helluva shorter list.

[Skittles]

18. yes they are

I quit Marriott LONG ago

[VarryOn]

20. They are. I agree...

It just seems almost daily someone insists we stop doing biz with some company for some reason. I'm sure I could find something wrong with every company if I looked.

[live love laugh]

46. Maybe but is all "wrong" equal?

[Sympthsical]

51. I mean, child slave labor is pretty bad

I don't see people giving up chocolate.

I don't eat chocolate, so it is very easy for me to see chocolate eaters as horrible people. I am composing furrowed eyebrows of disapproval as we speak.

I doubt more than a handful of people here are staying at a Marriott this week.

Bet there's a lot of chocolate munching, though.

The Tsk sound I just made aloud woke a kitten. That's how much I disapprove of people who will not take opposing child slave labor seriously.

[Sympthsical]

99. I have no way of proving that you do

That's the thing about social media and boycotting. People can claim all kinds of things for social credit.

If I don't shop at Walmart because there isn't a location convenient to me, isn't it pretty easy for me to say, "I won't shop at Walmart!" I mean, I don't shop there. My reasons are immaterial.

So it is here. Jumping way, way up another poster's ass. "Boycott this thing I wasn't doing anyway, or you don't care about democracy!"

I mean, it's pretty easy to boycott and judge others for behaviors we ourselves have zero chance of doing. I am also not staying at a Marriott in the foreseeable future. But that's just incidental, as most of these things are.

Why should I try to squeeze moral superiority out of something I have no temptation, desire, or even opportunity to do? I might as well boycott eating liver and explain my reasons why you should, then judge you when you don't. "I am an awesome person for not eating liver!"

I mean, ok. It means nothing at all. I have made no effort in this. I have lost nothing and attempted nothing.

So why would I jump way, way, way, way up anyone's ass about something that has no bearing on my life either way?

I don't like self-appointed priests. Not in religion, not in the secular, and not in the political. No one requires nor need ask for absolution for a sin someone created. If you want to boycott, great. If others don't, it's kind of none of your business, is it?

[Scrivener7]

12. So you're OK with giving money to companies whose policies you find disgusting?

[tblue37]

16. If he's using points for a free stay, he's not giving them money.

[rpannier]

28. I find most companies policies repugnant

Unfortunately, sometimes there is little choice.
I live in Japan, used to be in Korea, most companies in both those countries suck... especially markets.

[Scrivener7]

62. Oh, come on! They publicly support white supremacists by giving them a venue!

And in this commodity, there is a world of choice!

[malaise]

19. Help me here - Romney's links?

https://www.npr.org/2012/04/05/150058865/for-romney-family-ties-to-marriott-heirs-pay-off

[ancianita]

30. Yep. There's plenty of link. Marriott's founder was a benefactor of Romney's father. Both Mormon.

When Mitt ran in 2012, he dumped all his stock holdings but Marriott shares; Marriott was his major campaign benefactor.

Marriotts kept the Book of Mormon in all their rooms worldwide.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/marriott-is-mainstay-for-romney-campaign/2012/10/14/895a13f8-1620-11e2-8792-cf5305eddf60_story.html

[ms liberty]

22. Was the Marriott a corporate owned and operated hotel? Most hotels are franchised

And if this one was, the Marriott Corp would not have even been aware that this group had booked the space there. Details matter.

[rpannier]

27. I looked it up on hotel management (actual website)

It's about one-third franchise (as fas as I can tell)
Moxy (never heard of it) and Courtyard are most likely to be a franchise.
Country least likely to be franchise is Germany
Marriott bought up Starwood hotels.

[ms liberty]

61. And I worked for a franchised hotel, in management, for more than 10 years

If the hotel was franchised, the brand didn't know or approve of who it rented space to ahead of time. They would know nothing about it until someone told them. We never called the brand to tell them who we were booking into our meeting spaces. That's the point of a franchise - the corporation is not involved in the day to day operations of each hotel, and booking a convention or meeting for a group is part of the normal day to day operations of a hotel.
And I am well aware that the hotel can pull the franchise; I've seen it happen, although not my hotel. It's the implied threat (or promise) at every inspection and every renovation requirement by the brand.

[ms liberty]

111. You are the one who said she owned a franchise

You should know what happens when a hotel starts refusing to rent space or rooms to an individual, group or groups whose views or opinions (or skin color, or culture, or religion) they might disagree with.

[ms liberty]

124. You need to reread what I said. I didn't say they couldn't.

I said you should know what would happen. The battle would be over before it started, and it would take one press conference with a suit whining about the evil liberal agenda big name hotel that's discriminating against them by not renting them space. By the end of the day, the corporation would be backpedaling and kowtowing, it would be a victory for the forces of evil, and it would be the story they blew out of proportion that week.
And the truth is that hotels rent space to every group imaginable, and they don't really care who it is or what they say or do, as long as they pay the going rate and don't trash the place. They rent to con men, amway sellers, and everything in between. It's all about the revenue.

[ms liberty]

126. Good, and good luck with it! I haven't used them in years anyway myself,

They're usually not my preferred choice when I'm looking at hotels for some reason.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

26. Can you possibly give us a list of those companies that you buy from

so we can make sure that they are all OK?

[Cuthbert Allgood]

43. I think I've stayed at a Marriott at some point. Not in Orlando (never been).

So you aren't going to give me a list of places you spend your money to see if you support right wing fascists? Do you have any proof that the Orlando hotel isn't a franchise and not independently owned?

But, hey, seems like you are feeling good about yourself on your high horse, so you do you, boo.

[live love laugh]

48. Franchise or not the corporation still bears responsibility.

[Tess49]

38. I'll need a copy of that, too. The only company on my list is Walmart, and I occasionally slip up

and wander in there anyway.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

65. No, you misunderstood. I want a list of all the companies YOU do business with.

To make sure you aren't supporting bad people, you know. (Spoilers: I guarantee you that you give money to bad people.)

[Cuthbert Allgood]

94. What type of cell phone do you have? Do you have diamonds? Eat chocolate? Quinoa? Drink coffee?

Because of course you do and they do things a LOT worse than allowing white supremacists to have a convention. Which is horrible. I agree. But there's blood on all our hands.

But, also, and again, do you have any proof that the Marriott Orlando has any connection to Marriott Europe and that not using reward points in Europe will impact Orlando in any way?

[live love laugh]

59. "OK" how? Hosting white supremacy is beyond "OK".

[Cuthbert Allgood]

66. My point is this purity test.

This was one Marriot in one state in the US. Is it shitty? Yup. Does it warrant going after a fellow DU member that is going to use reward points at NOT that Marriot? Nope. That level of gatekeeping certainly deserves all of us being able to look at where that person's money goes.

[live love laugh]

69. All lives matter is basically the response of you detractors.

It’s easy to oppose. It’s all Republicans do (ie. antvax).

What SHOULD be done other than the nothing that you and the detractors seem to be in favor of?

[Cuthbert Allgood]

72. I am absolutely not saying anything like all lives matter.

How does using rewards points in Europe make the Orlando hotel pay for what they did? Telling the person to not use their rewards points is like Carhardt wearers burning their clothing after they have already purchased it. It does NOTHING.

[live love laugh]

73. You don't have to say it explicitly. The point is made.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

74. And you explicitly ignoring any questions is also very clear.

You like to toss out that people not doing what you want are supporting racists, but when asked how and if doing things that you tell people in here they have to do will actually work, you have nothing.

Why is the person in this thread using their reward points in Marriotts in Europe supporting racism when it was an Orlando hotel (and they aren't actually spending any new money at Marriott)?

[Cuthbert Allgood]

95. Good point. How does going after a DUer that is going to use reward points help that happen?

[Cuthbert Allgood]

100. Sorry, thought this was you.

Oh, wait, it is.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

112. So, the way discussion boards work is that I don't need to get permission

or justify which threads or people I respond to.

But, in this case, it's your OP. Your high and mighty attitude telling people what they should and shouldn't do coupled with an indication that because someone isn't 100% behind your worldwide boycott of Marriott means that they support racism is just a little too much for me to pass up on.

And I didn't just reply to you. But you know that.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

118. Seriously? I'm a racist? That's your argument

Jesus Fucking Christ.

[live love laugh]

103. ✔️

[Sympthsical]

86. God, this skit was bizarrely timely

Aired this weekend, and it's all I can think about while reading this thread. Like, how eerily on point is this?

[halfulglas]

31. If you're using points you've already accumulated, then they are prepaid.

You should use them. You are giving them little new money, only the various fees. If you let them go to waste, they go back to Marriott. So have yourself a great time.

[A HERETIC I AM]

84. Even though you responded to the OP...

This reads as if you were responding to me, and so I appreciate the sentiment.

Several people seemed to take serious issue with my statement.

Thanks for your comment.

[halfulglas]

85. Yes, I did. In a long thread an answer sometimes gets misplaced.

And I mean it, have a great time. You paid for it. Points are not free.

[A HERETIC I AM]

87. Thanks

As I said in a post above, it is still at least a year away, but I have enough points to cover better than 2 weeks worth at an upscale property.

I've been doing a lot of flying for my company as well, and am collecting miles on the 3 major US Airlines, so I should be able to fly over and back using miles, stay using points and all I'll have to cover out of pocket will be food and perhaps a rental car or a rail pass.

I do appreciate your kind thoughts.

[Cozmo]

34. Marriott Hotels owns many brands and many are franchised properties

I get your drift and I stand behind vendor boycotts when applicable, but this might be a tough one to get the impact you are attempting.

[IronLionZion]

36. OK

I can't afford them and don't have any points. That was easy

[DFW]

52. That's cheating!

[Poiuyt]

40. Note - It doesn't do any good to boycott a company unless you tell them what you're doing and why.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

44. ...

[live love laugh]

57. Ignore the apologists, detractors and apathists.

Boycotts have worked before and can work again.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

67. So please inform how not using reward points in Europe

is going to stop the Orlando Marriott from doing bad things? How will they even know?

[live love laugh]

68. Why is white supremacy not a big enough concern to you?

Explain that.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

71. It is. And I have no problem saying to not stay at the Orlando Marriott until they address it.

How does the person not using their rewards points (which, by they way, hurts Marriott if they do) in Europe going to impact what Orlando does? Is anyone going to explain that?

[we can do it]

70. Marriott stopped supporting repubes Jan 6.

[we can do it]

89. You have all the answers. They also supported BLM.

Can you provide evidence that they knowingly booked and support white supremacists?

[we can do it]

109. Have a great day, I'm done.

[we can do it]

110. One last little question, do you use facebook?

[we can do it]

115. Never

[RANDYWILDMAN]

79. Been boycotting them since 1994

They won a contract for the dorm food at arizona state.

I lost 15 pounds eating their food, not good for anybody or an athlete like myself.


Always knew they were trouble after I found out Romney was on their board and made money off of them.

[Torchlight]

104. Against the greater narrative, boycotts often work

including Mitsubishi, Burma Campaign, De Beers, Fur Trade and The Body Shop, Twitter, Fortnum & Mason, the Kirin Group, Canada Goose, etc.

It's the most direct-action (market-wise) piece of civil protesting in the toolbox. Which is a major reason it can be so effective.

So we keep our eyes open to those who will try to trivialize the severe impact boycotts have on the ivory towers standing atop finely manicured lawns of Washington green-- it's easier for shareholders to prevent a boycott (with plants and narratives and other devices in their toolbox) than it is to stand up to one once it actually begins.

Wall Street knows the way to beat a boycott is to prevent it from happening.

[634-5789]

113. K&R