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Mon Feb 28, 2022, 11:58 AM

Wow.... Bill Maher spot on!!! Support for trump dropping

among R's. LAST thing we need to do is feed the trump meme that we are all looking down on them. Resist the urge to say "I told you so".

72 replies, 2699 views

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Reply Wow.... Bill Maher spot on!!! Support for trump dropping (Original post)
Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2022 OP
ItsjustMe Feb 2022 #1
Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2022 #2
griffi94 Feb 2022 #9
LenaBaby61 Feb 2022 #22
PatSeg Feb 2022 #68
ChazII Feb 2022 #14
lagomorph777 Feb 2022 #3
uponit7771 Feb 2022 #4
OAITW r.2.0 Feb 2022 #5
RAB910 Feb 2022 #6
Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2022 #7
BlackSkimmer Feb 2022 #8
empedocles Feb 2022 #10
uponit7771 Feb 2022 #12
Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2022 #21
uponit7771 Feb 2022 #26
Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2022 #27
uponit7771 Feb 2022 #33
Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2022 #35
uponit7771 Feb 2022 #37
uponit7771 Feb 2022 #38
Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2022 #39
uponit7771 Feb 2022 #41
Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2022 #48
uponit7771 Feb 2022 #50
uponit7771 Feb 2022 #11
Torchlight Feb 2022 #65
LenaBaby61 Feb 2022 #24
Bluesaph Feb 2022 #66
uponit7771 Feb 2022 #72
ecstatic Feb 2022 #70
WhiskeyGrinder Feb 2022 #13
Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2022 #23
WhiskeyGrinder Feb 2022 #25
Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2022 #28
BannonsLiver Feb 2022 #42
PJMcK Feb 2022 #15
USALiberal Feb 2022 #31
USALiberal Feb 2022 #32
jcgoldie Feb 2022 #16
Meadowoak Feb 2022 #17
USALiberal Feb 2022 #34
jcgoldie Feb 2022 #46
TheRealNorth Feb 2022 #18
gopiscrap Feb 2022 #19
LuckyCharms Feb 2022 #20
Xoan Feb 2022 #29
Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2022 #40
genxlib Feb 2022 #30
Baked Potato Feb 2022 #36
Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2022 #44
Baked Potato Feb 2022 #49
Santeria Feb 2022 #43
Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2022 #45
uponit7771 Feb 2022 #53
Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2022 #55
uponit7771 Feb 2022 #52
GoodRaisin Feb 2022 #59
wiggs Feb 2022 #64
JustAnotherGen Feb 2022 #47
Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2022 #58
tenderfoot Feb 2022 #51
Kingofalldems Feb 2022 #54
Laura PourMeADrink Feb 2022 #56
I_have_a_cat_bite Feb 2022 #57
JHB Feb 2022 #60
I_have_a_cat_bite Feb 2022 #62
budkin Feb 2022 #61
lame54 Feb 2022 #63
displacedtexan Feb 2022 #67
Orrex Feb 2022 #69
ecstatic Feb 2022 #71

Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 12:00 PM

1. New Rule: With Malice Toward None

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Response to ItsjustMe (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 12:01 PM

2. Thank you SO much for posting link.

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Response to ItsjustMe (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 12:19 PM

9. Lofty sentiment.

I'm all for giving it a try. However, after 40 years of hate radio, conservatives view anybody
not as conservative as a blood enemy. DeSantis or Hawley will pick up where Trump went down. They won't have
a glaring connection to Putin. In 3 months they'll be right back where they are now. Yammering about wokeness, socialism, and CRT.

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Response to griffi94 (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 12:51 PM

22. THIS 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻

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Response to griffi94 (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 04:09 PM

68. Yes, it is a wonderful idea in theory

and I do think we should exercise some caution, so that we don't come across as intolerant and dickish as republicans, but it is not going to be easy being they have endorsed violence, intolerance, and even treason. There are some things that cannot be condoned or excused.

Forgiveness is one thing, but there are some people, especially in positions of power who must be held accountable. History has shown that such people often come back unrepentant and destructive when given too much leniency.

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Response to ItsjustMe (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 12:24 PM

14. kicking back to the top. n/t

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 12:03 PM

3. I dumped all Trumpers in my orbit long ago.

So, for that reason, there won't be any "I told you so" moments.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 12:03 PM

4. BULL FUCKIN SHIT !! That's EXACTLY what we need to do to GQP pols RIGHT NOW !!! Tie them to

... Putler and his anti democracy tactics they're implementing in America TODAY.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #4)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 12:08 PM

5. Agreed.

This guy probably has a fair amount of Republican viewers that watch his show....maybe straight talk will puncture their information bubble.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #4)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 12:10 PM

6. Agreed, the people who supported Trumps were anti-American monsters

and that shouldn't be forgotten

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #4)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 12:12 PM

7. Totally disagree, sorry. The whole thing with Ukraine is so organic

People everywhere are doing the right thing because it is obviously the right thing not because someone told them to act that way. And that's why people around the world are seeing and reacting so strongly to this.

I think it's extremely important not to disturb this. Not to brag and say I told you so. Not to diminish what has happened by calling out people who are against it but to just let the goodness happen since it speaks loud and clear. It is the time to only concentrate on praise of the people there. And praise of other country's before our own.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 12:13 PM

8. Good post.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 12:21 PM

10. '. . . People everywhere are doing the right thing because it is obviously the right thing . .'

Well put.

Very important marker for international relations.

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Response to empedocles (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 12:23 PM

12. TFG is doing the right thing? NO !! He and his crew are still aligned in deed if not word with ...

... Putlers plans in regards to anti democracy efforts.

No, they don't get out of this because they're against what America and what UKR stands for

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #12)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 12:50 PM

21. Of course FG is not doing the right thing. That's 100% a given.

100%

Just saying it's the perfect time to try a different approach. There could not be a more perfect time than this. And it gives the crazies an off ramp.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #21)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 12:57 PM

26. Then fuck a cum by yah until TFG does, force his hand make him look weak. This is NOT the time

... to come together with people who want to do what Putler is doing.

Texas mail in ballot primaries are a 100% shit show because of Putin/Republican Anti democracy laws.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #26)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 01:05 PM

27. Come together? Missing point.... temporarily Ignore and let them

peel off the wrong side.

No one hates their side more than I do.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #27)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 01:17 PM

33. I don't see a peel off though, the GQP who are supporting anti democracy measures (not just words

... and trolling shit which is 90% of the GQP) but actually screwing the country up with anti democracy laws aren't going to come together.

They are hell bent on turning this nation into Texas / Belarus

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #33)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 01:22 PM

35. Watch the clip. I had no idea support for FG waning among R's. nt

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #35)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 01:27 PM

37. Maher isn't paying attention, GQP pols don't give a shit what their constituents think GQP pols ..

... support TFG and Putler save a few.

The poll he mention is of the constituents not the Putler lovers in congress.

THEY ... THEY Need to change their words and deeds to match the moment and they're NOT.

I'm not talking about the average rep voter ... its the pols who are making the anti voter laws.

They stop with those laws then maybe we should talk outside of that fuck em

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #35)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 01:29 PM

38. To add CPAC poll of "the base" has Putler's Whore at about 60% I don't know what Maher is looking

... at but the average rep isn't the people who vote during primaries.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #38)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 01:33 PM

39. Ok... He's wrong, I'm wrong. Carry on :)

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #39)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 01:35 PM

41. NP, The darkness Putler and his whore are spreading throughout the world ...

is going to take more work to route out.

I'm so pissed about the 40% mail in ballot rejections in Texas, a lot of warned people GOTv doesn't work against anti access laws and last minute rule changes.

Until the GQP changes on this ... we're in a fight ... too

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #41)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 01:49 PM

48. Yup it's a whole mountain of shit!!! Good thing we have it in our DNA

to crawl on broken glass to vote. For those who can not we'll have to redouble our GOTV in swamps like TX for sure

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #48)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 01:55 PM

50. same !!

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 12:21 PM

11. Putin's Whore is *NOT* "doing the right thing" he's and Pompeo et al are still complementing him

... and GQP pols are still aligning with his goals.

Look at Texas, 40% rejection of mail in ballot because the TX legislature changed the voting laws at the last minute then have people less than a month to find out their ballot was wrong and correct it.

That's not "People everywhere are doing the right thing ..."

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 03:57 PM

65. I think you miss one of the fundamental rules of humanity perfected by MAGATs

'It's more profitable to apologize afterwards than to ask permission beforehand.'

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #4)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 12:51 PM

24. THIS 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #4)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 04:00 PM

66. I think he's talking about trump train-ers

We definitely need to tie all republicans to trump! But if we want to Attract independents who fell for trump we need to be nice.

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Response to Bluesaph (Reply #66)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 05:14 PM

72. Maher has tried this twice not to delineate between GQP polls and cross voters. He could've said

... cross voters, I don't trust his views any longer they're too sympathetic to GQP talking points.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #4)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 04:23 PM

70. +1000. nt

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 12:24 PM

13. Why? Because their feelings might be hurt?

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #13)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 12:51 PM

23. No, because ineffective.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #23)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 12:54 PM

25. Toward what goal?

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #25)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 01:07 PM

28. The goal is the same as it's always been. Diminish

trump & other crazies' support.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #28)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 01:36 PM

42. My strategy with those who have repented their Trump devotion.

Is to not really bring it up again after they make the disclosure they no longer support Trump. My experience with a half dozen or so is that they are embarrassed. Once they’ve come around I find it more helpful to focus on areas where there is agreement and try to work through issues where there is not. Spiking the football probably wouldn’t make that easier. But I understand those on our side who just can’t do that as well.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 12:28 PM

15. Sorry but this is not the time for Democrats to be generous towards Republicans

Maher is wrong on this as he so often is on other issues.

First, the Republicans haven't turned their backs on Trump, even if he's getting a small percentage drop in his support. At the CPAC conference last weekend, Trump was by far the straw-pole favorite to be the GOP nominee in 2024.

Second, There are still plenty of Republicans in positions of political power and influence who continue The Big Lie and constantly insult anyone to the left of Genghis Kahn. For example, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Loren Boebert, Matt Gaetz, Louis Gohmert, Sarah Palin, Paul Gosar, Josh Hawley and Rand Paul-- among many others-- have recently made many disparaging and nasty or insulting comments about Democrats and President Biden. Why in the world should we respect or compromise with them?! Get real, Bill.

Lastly, Republicans around the country at the state level have been furiously rewriting their voting laws, gerrymandering their voting districts, purging their voting lists and creating legislative ways to overrule the will of the voters. They know they will lose elections if there are fair, open and honest elections. Maher expects us to be magnanimous? Fuck them and fuck Bill.

Perhaps Maher has a good point about the way to engage with our enemies after they are defeated. But the political war in the U.S. isn't over yet. It's way too early to be accommodating to the traitorous Republicans who haven't demonstrated a drop of contrition. Maybe later but otherwise our fight continues.

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Response to PJMcK (Reply #15)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 01:16 PM

31. Lol

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Response to PJMcK (Reply #15)


Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 12:28 PM

16. fuck Bill Maher

Both sides asshole is what he is. GOP needs to be tied to Trump by the neck especially his comments about Putin.

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Response to jcgoldie (Reply #16)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 12:32 PM

17. Agreed

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Response to jcgoldie (Reply #16)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 01:17 PM

34. Lol, ok! Nt

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Response to USALiberal (Reply #34)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 01:47 PM

46. I'm not talking about being vindictive

I mean for political expediency you have to make them own their very unpopular position… not weasel off the hook. A week ago Trump and many of his gop followers were praising how smart and savvy putin was… now that they don’t like images of civilians being murdered and white ones at that… they dont get to pretend they werent pro putin all along. Aww we know you didnt mean it guys…

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 12:41 PM

18. The problem with that idea....

Is that if you let them get away with it, they will try to rewrite history and suggest it was Biden and the Democratic Party that didn't support Ukraine.

I saw this firsthand with my MAGAT relatives in 2016- they ranted and screamed about Hillary "supporting" the Iraq War (by voting to authorize military action against Iraq), even though all the Republicans had supported that war and those same relatives had accused me of supporting the terrorists because I protested in the lead up to the Iraq War.

In summary, they will gaslight us and the media into believing they were really the ones supporting Ukraine if we let them.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 12:46 PM

19. fuck that shit

republican are the shit stains of humanity and deserve to be obliterated from the face of the earth

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 12:47 PM

20. Racists rarely change. Haters rarely stop hating. What they do, however,

is pretend they change, pretend they have seen the light, when a societal inflection point is perceived by them. When they know that society as a whole perceives them as outcasts.

When they can't wear their MAGA hats anymore.

When they can't shoot their mouths off about politics every 30 seconds without getting verbally slapped down.

So what they do is pretend they have changed, pretend they have gravitated more toward normalcy. They might even say that they were wrong. But have their hearts and minds done a 180, truly? When the next asshole with skin that is a color not found in nature comes along, will they just revert back to their old ways? Yes, they probably will.

People do what they need to do to get along in life. When it is apparent to them that the vast majority of people they encounter think they are motherfuckers, then they stop behaving like motherfuckers, just to make their lives easier. "I used to be a real motherfucker, but I'm not a motherfucker anymore. Putin sucks, man! I'm working on my racism! I support Ukraine!"

OK, that's fine. but that does not mean I have to welcome them into my life with open arms. They fucked everyone else right up the old poop chute for years without a second thought. I have no obligation to forgive that. I do have an obligation not to go out of my way to be a total prick to them, but by my way of thinking, I'm better off just politely ignoring them.

Because they revealed what they are, and the vast majority of them have not changed, and will never change. They pose a risk to me, and to my country with their gullibility.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 01:08 PM

29. Did they ...

Ask for forgiveness?

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Response to Xoan (Reply #29)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 01:34 PM

40. Forgiveness not even in equation. More like ignore

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 01:10 PM

30. Not so fast

Think of it like a subway station.

Once they get off the crazy train, which direction are they going.

I will work towards forgiveness if they are catching a train in the opposite direction back to reality. That comes with recognition of a mistake and remorse for the ill effects.

But if they are simply changing trains to continue on in the same direction, then to hell with them.

Until I see otherwise, it is almost certainly the latter.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 01:26 PM

36. It took a long time to get America where we are with regard to

people voting against their own well being. It will take much work to get these people to come around. We shouldn’t give up on them. They can change. They have to be shown a way out of Republican hold and out of Trump’s rallies. The way out has to be crafted so people can cross over or come back to Democrats with dignity. Chiding them and pointing out their failings is short-term satisfaction, but ultimately counterproductive and feeds the cycle of mistrust and hatred towards Democrats. There is a compromise which, if utilized, can ensure a Democratic dominancy which can render Republicanism obsolete in a country thirsting for equality.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213474363

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Response to Baked Potato (Reply #36)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 01:41 PM

44. +1. And link good post!!!! And luckily there is no sane

R to fall back on.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #44)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 01:52 PM

49. Yes, I want Democrats to win elections.

A few thousand here and there can make a difference. Nobody like to be disrespected.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 01:37 PM

43. I'm skeptical that he is losing support.

 

At least enough of it where it would seriously become a liability within the Republican Party to support him.

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Response to Santeria (Reply #43)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 01:44 PM

45. From NYT

Still, the Donald Trump of 2022 does not look quite like the Donald Trump of old. One indication of this change came with the release of a new poll from NBC News. Over the course of Trump’s presidency and since he left office, the poll has tracked attitudes of Republicans, asking them whether they see themselves mainly as supporters of Trump or mainly supporters of the party itself.

On the eve of the 2020 election, 54 percent of Republicans and independents who lean Republican said they considered themselves more a supporter of Trump than of the Republican Party, compared with 38 percent who said they considered themselves more a supporter of the Republican Party. By January 2021, views were evenly divided, with 46 percent saying Trump and 46 percent saying the GOP.

The latest poll, released last weekend, shows a reversal in attitudes, compared with the pre-election 2020 survey, and a further decline from last January. Today, 56 percent of Republicans say they are more supporters of the party than of Trump, while 36 percent say they are more supporters of Trump than the party.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #45)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 01:57 PM

53. Those are base primary voters like at CPAC were Putler's Whore gets 60% vote

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #53)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 02:33 PM

55. Right. Thought that was what we were talking about

Chipping away at the crazy people

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Response to Santeria (Reply #43)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 01:56 PM

52. He's not, the GQP "base" voted for Putlers Whore to be voted as next candidate by 60%

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Response to Santeria (Reply #43)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 02:40 PM

59. I can believe it but who do they support now?

Saying they support “the Party” I guess is a mild improvement from supporting the slobfather but their Republican agenda is still “shit”. No matter which Rs they vote for they are still Rs.

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Response to GoodRaisin (Reply #59)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 03:52 PM

64. Correct. They may feel that their horse isn't going to be as viable this time around, but

will gladly get on the DeSantis/Green/Cruz/Paul bandwagon...anyone who gives them permission to be their worst selves, hate anyone they hate, and own the libs.

Lots of assholes want to be the next Trump and now have the playbook.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 01:48 PM

47. Nope

I'll make my own decisions, and own my own behavior.

Personal Friend of mine, Mayor of my Town - and she WILL win re-election this November:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/n-j-mayor-ignores-calls-resign-over-profane-social-media-n1243557


We are surrounded by a sea of Red in Hunterdon county and have heard and see the worst of the worst of these people.

I will NEVER be friends or give them respect. Their votes (not once - but twice) tells me they look down on ME and my very existence.

I'm with Betsy to Republicans - and I mean it.

I'm not saying "I told you so". I'm saying - "You don't count to me - just like non white, non Christian, non heterosexual people don't count to the GOP".

Turn about is fair play - never up for discussion or debate with me. It's always fair play in surviving racist, homophobic Christian Shariah law implementing unAmerican 'its'.

Wake up Billy boy - they aren't your friends. Oh yeah - you are also a Millionaire many times over - so who the hell are you to talk down to ME Billy boy?

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #47)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 02:38 PM

58. Friends with them? Give them respect? Huh?

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 01:55 PM

51. Leave MAGA alone! They learned their lesson! -- Susan Collins (R-ME)



They won't try 1/6 again!



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Response to tenderfoot (Reply #51)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 02:08 PM

54. Hit the nail on the head.

We're supposed to be nice to the MAGAts now?

They literally want us dead.

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Response to tenderfoot (Reply #51)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 02:36 PM

56. I don't believe anybody ever mentioned one six we are only

Talking about chipping away at FG support based on his being on the wrong side of Ukraine. Only. Incremental because this has been handed to us on a silver platter.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 02:38 PM

57. Democrats still watch Bill Maher?

 

Some of his arguments sound like they were taken straight from 4chan trolls and my conservative grandfather.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 02:46 PM

60. They'll claim we're being condescending and looking down on them anyway

How many decades of conservatives seizing upon any comment to take offense at will it take to get some people (not just Mahar) to stop blaming us for their foam?

Why are we responsible for the behavior of "the party of personal responsibility"?

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Response to JHB (Reply #60)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 02:52 PM

62. Hell yes they will

 

I don't care what is said about them. We are called communists, marxists, and baby killers. My mom was run off the road after Trump became president and yelled at about her Obama sticker. She came home shaking. This is after they won. They really just want to get rid of us all.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 02:46 PM

61. I can't stand Bill Maher

He's quickly becoming another Joe Rogan.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 03:07 PM

63. Every example he gives is after the conflict...

We are in mid conflict - to soon to drop defenses

CPAC just made Trump their guy

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 04:08 PM

67. "Resist the urge" ad they'll be worse next time.

Post Civil War. Nixon. Dubya. Trump…

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 04:20 PM

69. I have nothing but praise for a former Trump fluffer who recants and denounces him

But a spineless, cowardly asshole who would be happy to continue servicing Trump--if not for the embarrassment of popular sentiment--is a self-serving hypocrite who will absolutely vote for the next GOP fascist who comes along.

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Response to Laura PourMeADrink (Original post)

Mon Feb 28, 2022, 04:27 PM

71. Why do we have to coddle and walk on egg shells around them?

They don't give two shits about hurting our feelings; in fact, from what I've been told, they specifically flocked to trump to "own the libs." But I guess for me it's a moot point since I don't interact with trumpers on this level anyway.

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