Did Rep. Tlaib

[Mme. Defarge]

give her speech tonight? Haven’t found any mention of it.

[Ocelot II]

1. Does anyone care?

[lame54]

2. She was all smiles after the speech

[nycbos]

4. No not really

[Mariana]

9. The OP obviously cares, or wouldn't have asked. nt.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

38. No, no one cares what this person had to say

[DemocraticPatriot]

3. Wasn't on the major networks I watched...

Much ado about nothing, although her intent was not to attack the president-- but the 'moderate Democrats' who blocked BBB (as was reported previously)

Much ado about nothing.

[gratuitous]

5. Gee, I hope she didn't upset Josh Gottheimer

Because Gottheimer's Problem Solvers Caucus is the linchpin of Democratic Party!

Or maybe not.

[betsuni]

6. She kept saying there should be a Working Families Party majority, elect WFP candidates,

join the movement, here's the website. More like a WFP advertisement. The Hill has the speech.

[leftstreet]

8. It's a small thing, but I wish they'd dump that stupid name

"working families" is so 90s and so not inclusive

Lots of people are single, childless couples, elderly, unemployed, underemployed, home caregivers, disabled, etc.

Oh well.

[iemanja]

24. but we are constantly ignored by politicians.

[betsuni]

25. Used to be middle/working class when talking about inequality and now it's only working class.

The middle class has disappeared -- maybe it's considered elite now or something? Justice Democrats/Our Revolution/WFP candidates have to be working class (whether they actually are or not) because apparently only someone from a working class background understands inequality. I find this very strange.

Same thing with the families thing. Repeating "families" over and over.

[sheshe2]

71. Thank you!

I am several of those.

She doesn't seem to care about the rest of us. I did 24/7 home care for 4 years for mom. I wasn't compensated. I did it because I loved her. She would have died in a nursing home during the pandemic. Instead, she died in my arms at 95.

[herding cats]

18. Thanks!

I'll give it a look and see. I'd missed this entirely. I'm plugged in, but Ukraine completely eclipsed all this for me. I never saw one mention in my pushes about this.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

7. The Governor of Iowa gave the GOP response.

Apparently she is their "rising star ".
To me she was a Koolaid addicted freaky woman. But That's just my observation.

[PatSeg]

37. Somehow being a "rising star" in the republican party

is not always a good thing. In the past, the rising stars who gave the republican rebuttal to the SOTU address just faded away into obscurity or became a huge joke. If asked to give the republican response, one should take that as a curse.

[Me.]

64. No Gravitas As Far As I Could See

[Samrob]

10. I really don't believe in attacking our progressives who are working hard for us.

We may not agree with their tactics but they are on our side and they dare to speak truth when no one else will. I like them all. I just wish they would be a little less vocal in public about their differences with their colleagues and keep our differences within the Dem family for now. As HRC said, we are stronger together. If we can focus on getting Biden or another Dem in office and putting more Dems in the House and Senate so Biden or whoever is our Dem President can have a Congress to work with him or her and not against us. It only serves to distract from important legislation when we snark at our own.

[Celerity]

11. Tlaib said: "Despite some sensational coverage, it's simple: I'm giving a speech about supporting

President Biden and his Build Back Better agenda for the people.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/01/rashida-tlaib-biden-state-union-response-democrats-gottheimer



on the other hand, in regards to this

I just wish they would be a little less vocal in public about their differences with their colleagues and keep our differences within the Dem family for now.

I present the blue dog type, Filemon Vela, attacking in advance, about her speech:

Filemon Vela, a Texas Democrat, said it was “astonishing” that the “radical left continues to promote a Democratic death wish, and sees no problem relegating our party to the permanent minority”.


In August 2021, Vela joined a group of conservative Democrats, dubbed "The Unbreakable Nine", who threatened to derail the Biden administration's $3.5 trillion budget reconciliation package meant to tackle the nation's infrastructure.


9 Moderate Democrats Threaten To Derail Pelosi's Infrastructure And Budget Plan

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/13/1027371749/moderate-house-democrats-infrastructure-budget-vote-pelosi

The letter is signed by Reps. Josh Gottheimer of New Jersey, Carolyn Bourdeaux of Georgia, Filemon Vela of Texas, Jared Golden of Maine, Henry Cuellar of Texas, Vicente Gonzalez of Texas, Ed Case of Hawaii, Jim Costa of California and Kurt Schrader of Oregon.


U.S. Rep. Filemon Vela signs letter opposing Nancy Pelosi as House speaker

https://www.texastribune.org/2018/11/19/filemon-vela-signs-anti-pelosi-letter-imperiling-her-hold-democratic-h/

[dpibel]

21. Do you find it odd

that Rashida Tlaib's speech, before it was delivered, generated one 150+ post thread and a second one about as bit about what a turncoat quisling horrible being she was.

That Josh Gottheimer was going to deliver a similar speech, albeit from a very different perspective, was the subject, not only of no hysteria, but virtually no comment at all.

I just can't understand it!

[BradAllison]

49. Hmmm

The "they wanna give away free shit!" crowd is silent.

[W_HAMILTON]

19. Excuse you.

The reason why some of these so-called progressives are """attacked""" is because they are often the ones doing the attacking -- attacking other good Democrats.

PS - Tlaib was the one booing Hillary at a Sanders campaign event.

PPS - "If we can focus on getting Biden OR ANOTHER DEM" -- mmhmm.

[betsuni]

23. Will never forgive the booing. Nothing Hillary or others said wasn't true.

[Cha]

26. Exactly.. It's like you read my mind.

We call them out when they attack Hard Working Dems.

I can Focus on the Winning the MIDTERMS.. Mods Won US Back the House in 2018! in Swing Sates! 💙

💙

[Samrob]

33. Pardon me, but I think it is wrong on both sides. I never said I agree with everything

Tlaib and the others say. I merely want all of our disagreements discussed and address within our Caucus and not in public.
And I reject calling any of Dems a "so called" anything. These women have put their lives on the line and receive harrowing threats every day. JUST STOP IT!

[W_HAMILTON]

41. Once again, then you should be the one upset with them...

...since they are constantly on Twitter and most certainly air out their grievances there.

And I call them "so-called" because real progressives actually make progress and don't do things to prevent progress from being made. There is a certain segment of the left that would better be called perfectionists rather than progressives, because they think everything should be accomplished in one fell swoop, regardless of whether it is possible or not, and then any incremental progress towards that is shit on by them, resulting in depressed voters that may (unfortunately) be inclined to believe them, which results in less turnout at the polls, thus making it less likely their ideals ever get implemented. Often times, they are their own worst enemy.

[sheshe2]

78. Harrowing threats?

These women have put their lives on the line and receive harrowing threats every day. JUST STOP IT!

You think they are the only ones?

One Menacing Call After Another: Threats Against Lawmakers Surge
A review of threats against members of Congress shows how a mainstreaming of violent political speech has prompted a growing number of Americans to target elected officials.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/09/us/politics/politician-death-threats.html

[question everything]

35. The Infrastructure Bill is an important achievement and was highlighted

in the speech. That the left wingers still wish they held it hostage shows that they care more about their way than about governing and winning elections.

I am often reminded, when I lived in CA in the 90s, how Rs won primaries by "standing on principles" and lost all statewide offices.

They probably despise Bill Clinton but he is on record saying that politics is about compromise.

[Me.]

65. THat Would Be The Same HRC THat The Rep. Booed At One Point

[sheshe2]

72. I hope they listen to your advice...

Stop booing HRC, get off twitter and start writing legislation.

[betsuni]

75. +1

[sheshe2]

76. ;)

[betsuni]

77. "they dare to speak the truth when no one else will."

[sheshe2]

79. Oh boy oh boy oh boy.

[walkingman]

12. I'm a Progressive, I want and believe in almost all progressive ideas but I worry

that the continued split in the Democratic Party will cost us the 2022 election and who knows in 2024. I have a nephew who in college age and is constantly diss the Democratic Party as not being progressive enough and can not seem to understand in America it is a binary choice.

I remember the 2016 election clearly when so many of the Bernie voters did not turn out simply becuase they got their little feelings hurt when he did not win the Primary. I understand, I was a Bernie supporter but I also understand that it was the Democratic candidate or Trump - not a hard choice.

We desperately need to UNITE - we will never always get everything we want but UNITY is what wins elections.

[herding cats]

14. Love to you.

I feel you on so many levels, and you're not wrong. It's ultimately a binary choice. Primaries are for dissent, then we must unite or lose. But, feelings get hurt and people cannot differentiate between their dreams and the harsh reality. Democrats are deeply emotional and empathetic (my opinion) and that's exploited against us.

[dpibel]

13. Just didn't live up to the hysteria

It was a pleasant, anodyne speech outlining a set of goals that many, maybe even most, of us share.

The only mention of President Biden by name that I recall was a suggestion that he could do some things, like student loan forgiveness, via executive order.

[herding cats]

15. I missed the hysteria, but where did you even see it?

I missed it in its entirety.

[dpibel]

16. A good miss on your part (the hysteria)

There were a couple of megathreads yesterday on the subject of how Rashida Tlaib was approximately the Antichrist for how she was going to tear down Joe Biden, the Democratic Party, and apple pie.

As for the speech, I watched it just now on YouTube.

And I suspect I am one of about 43 people in the entire country who know what she said.

[herding cats]

17. I'll see if I can find it and we can be 44 people.

I've been time limited and focused on Ukraine and their troubles. I'm sure I've missed a lot.

[Cha]

27. I didn't see any "hysteria" as was labeled..

Last edited Wed Mar 2, 2022, 03:58 PM - Edit history (1)

I saw Dems who were Understandably concerned from past performances.

"Hysteria" is an Insult to Dems who Want to WIN the MIDTERMS! 💙

[herding cats]

34. Ah, it was one of those things.

I didn't realize that. Thanks for filling me in, Cha. Winning is VITAL as we've all learned the hard way.

[Cha]

48. Yes, We Want to WIN the MIDERMS.. FOR

Pres Biden, For US, Our Country, And OUR PLANET!!

Thank You, Cat, For helping with Our Victory Goal!

[W_HAMILTON]

20. Except that's one of their usual attacks.

And an attack that will inevitably help depress young voter turnout in the midterms, regardless of whether it is true or not (Biden has said he has looked into the topic and does not have such authority).

[dpibel]

22. Friend

It was one line in a nearly 10-minute speech.

The vast majority of the speech was talking about what we can all accomplish if we work together, what a wonderful world this could be, and an exhortation to get out and vote.

And, really, nobody watched it. It didn't go out on the networks. It was a nonevent.

It simply did not support the anguish that it prospectively aroused.

[Cha]

28. yeah.. They Must Know that President

Biden is Not Authorized to Forgive Student Loans by EO.

Link to tweet

[betsuni]

29. They have a list of executive orders they think Biden can do, but I'm not confident

it's possible.

[Cha]

31. I'm betting Pres Biden Knows

More about it than they do.

The Forbes article linked in the tweet is very Informative and Interesting.

Link to tweet

It explains why he was able to do this kind of Loan Forgiveness in this Tweet.. I was just wondering about it and this article shows up..

Link to tweet

[Celerity]

30. When did he say this?

Biden has said he has looked into the topic and does not have such authority

I can outline what I know, and I have been following his issue since the primaries. I have not seen any definitive statement at all. If you have one, I would love to see it.

There are 3 main levels of proposed student loan debt forgiveness

1. Sanders (all of it) Not going to happen

2. Warren, Schumer, etc ($50K, done via EO) Biden has said no (No for sure on an EO for $50K. I also am not sure IF legislation was passed (very unlikely, even the lower $10K is unlikely) for $50K if he would sign it)

3. Biden $10K - this is the most confusing one, as it appears he said via EO, but left the language loose enough that he might be referring to signing legislation, not an EO. (see the article below for much more detail)

Biden said in January 2021 (so soon will be 14 months) he was going to have the Education Department do a deep dive memo on what his authority was.

He then said nothing for ages, but it turns out he has been sitting on it (the memo) for what is around a year now. THAT is very frustrating (the sitting on it for ages).


here are some sources that provide a pretty comprehensive summation in chronological order



What Biden Can’t Do on Student Debt—and What He Won’t Do

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/what-biden-cant-do-on-student-debt-and-what-he-wont-do

October 29, 2021

snip

Joe Biden, then the leading moderate candidate, began getting questions about debt cancellation, and, as he often did during the campaign, he forged a compromise between the left and the center. In April, 2020, Biden pledged to “immediately cancel a minimum of $10,000 of student debt per person.” He didn’t specify whether he would do this through executive action or by urging Congress to pass a bill, though the word “immediately” seemed to imply the former. During his first month as President, at a CNN town hall in Milwaukee, Biden was asked how much debt he planned to cancel. He spoke for several minutes, mentioning that one of his sons had graduated from Georgetown and Yale Law School “a hundred and forty-two thousand dollars in debt” but that he had paid it off, in part, by working for “a parking service down in Washington.” (The same son, of course, also earned astronomical sums of money while working for a hedge fund, lobbying for various companies, and serving on the board of a Ukrainian natural-gas company, but Biden happened to omit those details.) Finally, he concluded, “I’m prepared to write off the ten thousand dollars’ debt, but not fifty. Because I don’t think I have the authority to do it by a sign of the pen.” He appeared to be suggesting that the President has the power to cancel debt up to but not beyond some unspecified amount of money—an interpretation that is, at best, legally ambiguous.

The members of the Debt Collective were both encouraged and dispirited. They had moved their proposal from the fringes to the mainstream more quickly than they had thought possible. And yet, for all their momentum, they wondered whether they were running into a brick wall: they could make the legal arguments; they could get their allies hired by the Administration; they could even draft an executive order, but they couldn’t make the President sign it. Some activists thought that the problem was ideological—that Biden, a son of corporate Delaware, believed deep down in the free market, not a free ride. Or perhaps he was waiting for his lawyers to tell him what he could do. On April 1st, in an interview with Politico, Ron Klain, Biden’s chief of staff, was asked whether Biden planned to cancel student debt via executive action. Klain said that the Department of Education was preparing “a memo on the president’s legal authority. Hopefully we’ll see that in the next few weeks. And then he’ll look at that legal authority, he’ll look at the policy issues around that, and he’ll make a decision.” A few weeks passed. Then a few months. Biden’s press secretary, Jen Psaki, was asked several times—in June, in August, in October—whether the legal review was finished, and what it had concluded. “I don’t have an update on that,” she said.

The Debt Collective activists developed a theory: that the lawyers at the Department of Education had already written their memo, that they had advised Biden that he did have the authority to cancel debt, and that the Administration was keeping the memo quiet because they didn’t like its conclusions. But this was mere speculation. So Gokey, one of the organizers, submitted a request through the Freedom of Information Act. If a memo had already been drafted, then he asked the Department of Education to send it to him. On August 20th, he got the results: dozens of pages of e-mails among Department of Education officials, including a seven-page memo called “The Secretary’s Legal Authority for Broad-Based Debt Cancellation.” The memo’s contents were redacted—in hot pink, for some reason—but it was proof that a memo existed. “I really felt this version was excellent,” the general counsel at the Department of Education wrote, on April 5th. Three days later, the word “draft” was removed from the memo’s header. This all seemed to vindicate the activists’ theory.

After reviewing Gokey’s documents, I asked both the White House and the Department of Education whether the department’s internal legal review was complete, but I didn’t get a specific answer. Nor is it clear whether, if Biden’s lawyers do conclude that he has the authority to cancel a large (or unlimited) amount of student debt, he is willing to use that authority. “The Department of Education is continuing to work in partnership with colleagues at the Department of Justice and the White House to review options with respect to debt cancellation,” a spokesperson from the Department of Education told me. A White House official told me that the President “continues to look into what debt-relief actions can be taken administratively” but that “these steps take time.” The Debt Collective is not mollified. “We’re a signature away from wiping out everyone’s federal student loans, and Biden apparently just doesn’t want to,” Gokey said. “We’ve given him a magic wand, a way to help millions of people and get them excited to come out to vote for him. Who wouldn’t want to do that?” The President’s party almost always loses seats during a midterm election—which would mean, in this case, that the Democrats would lose control of one or both houses of Congress next year. A way to prevent that, Astra Taylor said, “would be to materially improve people’s lives in ways that are intelligible to them. And, believe me, if you cancel forty-five million people’s debt, they will notice.” On Friday, Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez wrote on Instagram that it was time to “bring the heat on Biden to cancel student loans. He doesn’t need Manchin’s permission for that.”

snip


next


Over 80 lawmakers call on Biden to release memo outlining authority to cancel student debt

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/26/over-80-lawmakers-call-on-biden-to-release-memo-on-ending-student-debt-.html

PUBLISHED WED, JAN 26 2022

Over 80 House and Senate members wrote a letter to President Joe Biden on Wednesday urging his administration to publicly release the memo outlining his legal authority to cancel student debt. The president requested the department to prepare that report last year.

The lawmakers, including Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y. and Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., also called on the president to immediately forgive $50,000 per borrower. The price tag on such a move would be around $1 trillion and 80% of student loan borrowers, or 36 million people, would have their debt cleared entirely. Outstanding student loan debt in the U.S. has exceeded $1.7 trillion and poses a larger burden to households than credit card or auto debt. Roughly 10 million borrowers are likely in delinquency or default.

snip

Biden has asked both the U.S. Department of Education and the U.S. Department of Justice to prepare memos on his legal authority to cancel student debt. Schumer and Warren have insisted the president has the power to do so. The White House is likely weighing the legal risks of such a move.

Most experts agree that the chances of Congress passing legislation to deliver the relief are close to zero, as even some moderate Democrats oppose loan forgiveness. A spokesperson for the White House said the president continues to look into what debt relief actions can be taken administratively. Yet it’s unclear why the reports on the his power to do so haven’t been released yet. The lawmakers point out in their letter that the Department of Education has had its memo for nearly 10 months.

snip




last (most current)


Is Biden actually going to cancel your student loans? Here’s what policy insiders say

https://fortune.com/education/business/articles/2022/02/28/is-biden-actually-going-to-cancel-your-student-loans-heres-what-policy-insiders-say/

February 28, 2022, 11:42 PM

On the campaign trail, then presidential candidate Joe Biden said, “We should forgive a minimum of $10,000 per person of federal student loans.” More than one year into office, Biden hasn’t yet lived up to that pledge—but he has forgiven more than $15 billion in student loan debt. (my add, that is less than 1% of the total student loan debt load)

snip

Biden has been quiet on the topic; in fact, he ignored a question about debt forgiveness posed by a reporter during a January 2022 press conference. But some student loan experts say mass forgiveness could still happen. “We are looking at 2022 as the year that broad-based debt cancellation is made a reality, and we urge President Biden to use his authority to sign an executive action to do so,” Cody Hounanian, executive director of the Student Debt Crisis Center, previously told Fortune. “After some resistance, the president extended the pause on federal student loans until May 1. This is a positive sign that the administration better understands the experience of borrowers and the obstacles they face.”

snip

Shortly after Biden’s comments at the CNN town hall in 2021, White House Chief of Staff Ron Klain said Biden had directed the secretary of education to explore whether the executive branch has the legal authority to cancel student loan debt. At the time, the memo was promised to be made public within a few weeks.

The full memo still hasn’t been released, but The New Yorker in October 2021 first reported that a heavily redacted version exists. This version doesn’t show much other than the fact that the White House had the memo for more than six months without releasing any information to the public.

snip

[lapucelle]

91. There is nothing confusing about what candidate Biden said and then what President Biden affirmed

during his first press conference shortly after taking office.

Candidate Biden explicitly called on Congress to step up.

Joe Biden Outlines New Steps to Ease Economic Burden on Working People
Apr 9, 2020

Congress has moved to help with the CARES Act, but they must do more. In addition to funds to keep workers on payroll, the next recovery package will need to provide significant funds to states, to make sure that educators and health care workers and first responders can keep getting paid. It will have to provide hazard pay to frontline workers putting themselves at risk. It will have to provide health care coverage for millions who lose their insurance, by allowing them to stay on their health care plans and covering the cost, as well as reopening enrollment for Obamacare and creating the public option I’ve been calling for.

It will have to extend unemployment benefits, and provide further direct cash relief, and take care of the people left out of the CARES Act, through an immediate cancellation of a minimum of $10,000 of student debt per person, as proposed by Senator Warren, and Social Security boosts. And so much more.

https://medium.com/JoeBiden/joe-biden-outlines-new-steps-to-ease-economic-burden-on-working-people-e3e121037322

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In February 2021President Biden called on Congress to send him a bill canceling loans for student borrowers.

For all the criticism about no wide-scale student loan cancellation, it’s important to note that Biden has cancelled $15 billion of student loans during his first year in office. That’s more than any other president, and more than 675,000 student loan borrowers have benefitted.

snip==========================================================================

During his first press conference this year, Biden was asked whether he still plans to cancel $10,000 of student loans for student loan borrowers. Biden has supported $10,000 of student loan forgiveness, but he has insisted he doesn’t have legal authority to cancel everyone’s student loan debt.

Instead, Biden has called on Congress to cancel student loans for millions of student loan borrowers. Biden has said he will sign any legislation on student loan forgiveness that Congress sends him.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2022/01/26/biden-has-cancelled-15-billion-of-student-loans/?sh=7ad853037fa5

[Celerity]

93. No. He did not answer the question at that presser, and there still is the ambiguity I laid out.

from your reply:

Biden has supported $10,000 of student loan forgiveness, but he has insisted he doesn’t have legal authority to cancel everyone’s student loan debt.

The Senators and House Reps are not talking about ALL student debt. The ambiguity was laid out in my initial reply.

here

Joe Biden, then the leading moderate candidate, began getting questions about debt cancellation, and, as he often did during the campaign, he forged a compromise between the left and the center. In April, 2020, Biden pledged to “immediately cancel a minimum of $10,000 of student debt per person.” He didn’t specify whether he would do this through executive action or by urging Congress to pass a bill, though the word “immediately” seemed to imply the former. During his first month as President, at a CNN town hall in Milwaukee, Biden was asked how much debt he planned to cancel. He spoke for several minutes, mentioning that one of his sons had graduated from Georgetown and Yale Law School “a hundred and forty-two thousand dollars in debt” but that he had paid it off, in part, by working for “a parking service down in Washington.” (The same son, of course, also earned astronomical sums of money while working for a hedge fund, lobbying for various companies, and serving on the board of a Ukrainian natural-gas company, but Biden happened to omit those details.) Finally, he concluded, “I’m prepared to write off the ten thousand dollars’ debt, but not fifty. Because I don’t think I have the authority to do it by a sign of the pen.” He appeared to be suggesting that the President has the power to cancel debt up to but not beyond some unspecified amount of money—an interpretation that is, at best, legally ambiguous.

Also, why has he not released the memo as to what authority he has? He asked his own Education Department to do so around a year ago and as Schumer and Warren pointed out (shown in an article in my reply) in their letter that the Department of Education has had its memo for nearly 10 months (11 months now as that article was 5 weeks ago).

more (from the letter)

https://thehill.com/policy/finance/591435-over-80-lawmakers-urge-biden-to-release-memo-outlining-his-authority-on

“Publicly releasing the memo outlining your executive authority on canceling student debt and broadly doing so is crucial to making a meaningful difference in the lives of current students, borrowers, and their families,” the lawmakers wrote in the letter. “It has been widely reported that the Department of Education has had this memo since April 5, 2021 after being directed to draft it.”


Here is the letter itself, it is public domain so I can legally post it in toto

(and LOTS of heavy-hitters here showing that your claims are incorrect, as if they were correct these Senators and House members would not be writing and/or signing this letter with its statements):

https://www.warren.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Final%20-%20Letter%20to%20Biden%20Cancelling%20Student%20Loan%20Debt.pdf

[lapucelle]

94. Your New Yorker link goes to the very editorial written by candidate Biden that I cited in my post.

Joe Biden didn't "pledge" to cancel debt. He called on Congress to do it.

Joe Biden Outlines New Steps to Ease Economic Burden on Working People
Apr 9, 2020

Congress has moved to help with the CARES Act, but they must do more. In addition to funds to keep workers on payroll, the next recovery package will need to provide significant funds to states, to make sure that educators and health care workers and first responders can keep getting paid. It will have to provide hazard pay to frontline workers putting themselves at risk. It will have to provide health care coverage for millions who lose their insurance, by allowing them to stay on their health care plans and covering the cost, as well as reopening enrollment for Obamacare and creating the public option I’ve been calling for.

It will have to extend unemployment benefits, and provide further direct cash relief, and take care of the people left out of the CARES Act, through an immediate cancellation of a minimum of $10,000 of student debt per person, as proposed by Senator Warren, and Social Security boosts. And so much more.

It was really sloppy on The New Yorker's part to frame what Joe Biden actually wrote in his editorial as a "pledge" on his part to cancel $10,000 of student loan debt. Moreover, the CNN town hall question cited concerned a proposal to cancel $10,000, not a pledge to do so.


And then there's this little nugget in the New Yorker piece you cited:

Biden was asked how much debt he planned to cancel. He spoke for several minutes, mentioning that one of his sons had graduated from Georgetown and Yale Law School “a hundred and forty-two thousand dollars in debt” but that he had paid it off, in part, by working for “a parking service down in Washington.”

(The same son, of course, also earned astronomical sums of money while working for a hedge fund, lobbying for various companies, and serving on the board of a Ukrainian natural-gas company, but Biden happened to omit those details.)

Those are right wing talking points.

[Celerity]

95. No.

[lapucelle]

101. Actually yes. Follow the links.

And the article you link to includes "Hunter Biden" right wing talking points.

[Celerity]

105. That memo needs to be released as they have been sitting on it for 11 months (or longer)

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216426775#post93

The fact that 80 Senators/House members (many of them powerful leaders in our party) are not only asking for it to be released, but also are flat out disagreeing with your stances shows that it is far from settled, regardless of how many times you claim it is.

[bigtree]

40. Chuck Schumer tweets WEEKLY that Pres. Biden should use his executive authority

...to forgive the student loans.

Link to tweet

Not well known here, hence the temerity to attack Tlaib for saying the exact same thing as our Senate Majority Leader.

[W_HAMILTON]

42. I disagree with it wherever it comes from.

Of course, the types of young voters that are likely to believe in this, have already written off Schumer as a """neoliberal blah blah" and don't give a damn what he has to say anyway, in part, because Tlaib's segment of the left has taught them to hate everyone not in exact lockstep with them.

And Pelosi is on the record saying that Biden alone does not have this power and instead any student loan cancelation must go through Congress: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/28/pelosi-says-biden-doesnt-have-authority-to-cancel-student-debt-.html

[bigtree]

44. so to your criticism, our Majority leader, who is doing the exact thing, is hurting the party?

...this is absolutely absurd.

You castigated Rep. Tlaib for this.

"...that's one of their usual attacks.

And an attack that will inevitably help depress young voter turnout in the midterms, regardless of whether it is true or not (Biden has said he has looked into the topic and does not have such authority)."

When our Senate Majority Leader says the exact same thing, is it an attack?

I'm being rhetorical. This is inflammatory nonsense.

[W_HAMILTON]

45. It's a co-opted attack from Schumer...

...to head off a super-progressive primary challenger. And it means little coming from him, because the types of people that it resonates with, don't like Schumer to begin with.

This isn't that hard to understand.

[bigtree]

46. I understand there's a double standard for this woman

...something she, nor I, is unaccustomed to as we advocate for things many Americans will never experience or have actual need to advocate for.

What's always floors me is how a majority can get so bothered by minority members of the party (progressives) speaking up and out for what they believe. Some of the most stalwart Democratic districts are in voting blocs like Tlaib. Yet we give the most fealty to those 'red states' who are fairweather Democrats, at best.

I understand about taking these Democratic districts for granted at voting time, and the need to flip red states, but what I don't understand is all of the ire for pols who are 100% Democratic, not 'moderate' or 'centrists' rubbing shoulders with obstructionist republicans.

[W_HAMILTON]

47. it's not a double standard.

I get on Manchin for doing the same shit. Arguably more so, because his actions are directly responsible for preventing more progressive legislation from passing, even though Tlaib and others like her, they are mostly indirectly responsible (by causing fewer Democrats to be voted in office in the first place).

Just don't fucking attack other Democrats. Once again, is it that difficult?

And it's not about giving "fealty" to red states or taking blue districts for granted. Even when it comes to most of these bluest of blue districts where these members hail from, remember that Joe Biden often got more votes than they did. If they can't get more votes than Joe Biden in their own districts, do they think their message is gonna resonate even more in more purple and red districts? Use some goddamn sense.

[bigtree]

58. they haven't attacked anyone in advocating for the president to use his executive powers

...not in any way.

Not leader Schumer, nor this congresswoman advocating for what she campaigned on. She's not representing West Virginia, and she has every right and responsibility to advocate for what her constituents support, not what Joe Manchin supports.

No responsibility taken by red state moderates for majority Democratic constituencies. They want these pols whose citizens understand and appreciate progressive change to stifle themselves so they can appease the neanderthal voters in their own states. No reciprocity, just this insistence that Democratic majority districts bend to their regressive politics.

I can't think of anything more anti-Democratic party than this insistence that Democrats who don't have any problem communicating progressive politics to their voters dumb down their appeals and advocacy to shield these conservative Democrats from their own limiting, anti-Democrat, anti-Biden politics.

[W_HAMILTON]

63. Whatever you want to call it, it wrongly demoralizes and depresses young voters.

And it doesn't matter what you think is fair or anti-Democratic or whatever else you want to complain about; fact of the matter is, they get elected in the bluest of blue districts, aren't even as popular as Biden in their own districts, and then they try to force litmus tests on every other Democrat -- including those running in much more purple or red areas -- where they are even less popular. In many districts, Republicans didn't even run against the Democrat -- they ran a campaign against Tlaib and those like her.

And what does it get for them, other than social media fame and maybe that sweet, sweet campaign cash? It doesn't get them more Democrats in office, which means it doesn't get them more progressive policies passed into law.

[bigtree]

73. what a bunch of nonsense. It's advocating for what young people are demanding

...with their votes.

Most Americans want Biden to prioritize student loan forgiveness, CNBC survey says

A Jan. NBC survey found that 57% want Biden to make student-loan forgiveness a 'high or moderate priority.' — 37% of Gen Z respondents want Biden to make loan forgiveness a high priority, with 34% of millennial respondents feeling the same.



https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/ag4e883md3/econToplines.pdf

[mvd]

88. I'd try the $10,000, citing the effects of the pandemic

And more forgiveness for below a certain income. If that goes well, go higher. Of course, ideally Congress would clearly write in the authority - but we don’t have the votes.

As for her speech, she wasn’t criticizing Biden - just expanding on the President’s speech.

[lapucelle]

92. Biden has cancelled $15 billion of student loans during his first year in office.

For all the criticism about no wide-scale student loan cancellation, it’s important to note that Biden has cancelled $15 billion of student loans during his first year in office. That’s more than any other president, and more than 675,000 student loan borrowers have benefitted. Here is the breakdown:

- Borower Defense To Repayment: $1.5 billion
- Total and Permanent Disability: $7 billion
- ITT Tech Students: $1.3 billion
- Public Service Loan Forgiveness: $5 billion

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2022/01/26/biden-has-cancelled-15-billion-of-student-loans/?sh=77310c6d7fa5

[Celerity]

96. That's less than 1% of the total student debt load. Around 0.86%.

https://www.thebalance.com/consumer-debt-statistics-causes-and-impact-3305704

The latest data available from the fourth quarter indicate that total student loan debt remains steady at about $1.749 trillion (down slightly from $1.751 trillion in the third quarter), while total auto loans were $1.312 trillion (up from $1.300 trillion in the third quarter).

https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/g19/current/default.htm



Total cost to earn a 4-Year, In-State, public university degree: $101,948, for Out-of-State (public) $172,644

Total cost for a 4 year private degree: $212,868

https://educationdata.org/average-cost-of-college

Report Highlights. The average cost of college in the United States is $35,331 per student per year, including books, supplies, and daily living expenses.

The average cost of college has more-than doubled in the 21st century, with an annual growth rate of 6.8%.
The average in-state student attending a public 4-year institution spends $25,487 for one academic year.
The average cost of in-state tuition alone is $9,349; out-of-state tuition averages $27,023.
The average traditional private university student spends a total of $ per academic year, $ of it on tuition and fees.
Considering student loan interest and loss of income, the ultimate cost of a bachelor’s degree can exceed $400,000.

[lapucelle]

100. And the point is...? Is the argument that President Biden should forgive $1,500,000,000 in debt owed

to the federal government through an executive order? If anything, a figure like $1,500,000,000 supports the contention that if debt is to be canceled, it should be done through legislation.

What exactly are those "total additional expenses" attached to the "cost of a degree"? If a community college student is spending $3500 a year on tuition, what is the additional $12,000 a year for?

Community college and state university is tuition free here in NYS. We've also had a $15 and hour minimum wage since 2016. We elect Democrats.

[betsuni]

104. "We elect Democrats."

Tuition free college and state universities, $15 minimum wage is NOT RADICAL nor new. Populists pretend to be saviors who are the only ones fighting for The People. Seven minute abs.

[mvd]

103. More should be done

He promised the $10,000 so try that along with giving low income people a break. All low income people need is to worry about loans. Hopefully those things go well enough to cancel more.

[dpibel]

53. 'Leventy dimensional chess

That's a lot of puzzlement packed into an "isn't that hard to understand."

Do I get your drift?

1. Schumer is co-opting the vicious student-loan smear (I could read it as the bad people are co-opting Schumer's attack, but I don't think that's what you mean).

2. Because by making this attack (which he apparently doesn't believe, right? He's just co-opting it) he fends off a super-progressive primary challenger.

3. Which he has to do because otherwise the people who don't like him to begin with will not vote for him.

That's the best I can do. Feel free to help me out with this easily understandable argument.

[W_HAMILTON]

62. It takes away a priority issue for progressives that a challenger from his left could attack him on.

It's no skin off Schumer's back. Biden is the one getting the blame, even though Pelosi (among others) have said that it is Congress that would need to pass legislation for the president to have the power to blanket cancel student loans. He does this because there have already been several instances of so-called """establishment""" Democrats in New York losing their primaries to challengers that ran to their left.

Again, it's not that hard to understand.

[Nixie]

70. +1000

Thank you for your excellent posts on this thread. You are right, it’s not hard to understand why the squad’s messaging gets checked.

[Celerity]

97. Just to be clear, are you opposed to even the $10K in Student loan debt reduction IF Congress

passed the legislation (so not via EO) to do so?

If Congress passed the $10K, would you want Biden to veto the legislation?

[W_HAMILTON]

98. No, I am in favor of anything to help the people.

So, I would be in favor of Biden signing legislation to cancel student loan debt.

I just think that it HURTS that goal when certain segments of the left falsely claim that Biden has the ability to do it alone, when he does not; it just depresses and demoralizes progressive voters that don't know better and, in the end, that results in fewer Democrats getting elected and even less of a chance of legislation like student loan cancelation getting passed into law.

[Celerity]

99. I think it is still very much up in the air whether he can or cannot use an EO. He has been

sitting on the Department of Education advisory (the one he ordered be done, and has been in existence at least since April 5th, 2021, if not earlier) memo for 11 months. He could clear up a lot by finally releasing it. At least we (Including the 80 Senators/House members who wrote him a letter asking for it to be released) all would know were the DOE stands.

see this for more detail

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216426775#post93


The downside is that if he doesn't have the authority, or chooses not to use the authority (even if they conclude he does have the authority) and punts it completely to Congress, it is not (not even the $10K) going to happen, as the Rethugs will filibuster it (as it is not in the Reconciliation bill). Even if it was in the BBB Act, I cannot see Manchin and/or Sinema signing off on it.

[W_HAMILTON]

107. I would imagine that it most certainly could be included in a reconciliation bill...

...which makes it of even more vital importance that we get more Democrats in there that are willing to vote for BBB and other similarly progressive legislation.

And I think when certain progressive Democrats attack Biden or other Democrats willing to support such legislation, it only hurts the ultimate goal because it depresses voters -- mostly young voters that are already less inclined to vote -- and makes it even more of an uphill climb because such attacks result in more Republicans getting elected.

[Celerity]

108. I do not see these attacks, I see a tonne of powerful Dems asking for the memo to be released, and

also some of those are positing he can do it via EO. Releasing the memo would certain help clear up a good chunk of the ambiguity. Many of those Dem leaders requesting thus are hardly 'Squad types'. I certainly do not see a lot of elected Dems 'attacking' Biden over this.


Even Tlaib said (about her reply to the SOTU)

Tlaib said: “Despite some sensational coverage, it’s simple: I’m giving a speech about supporting President Biden and his Build Back Better agenda for the people.”


also (after her speech)

https://www.npr.org/2022/03/02/1083868623/democrat-rep-rashida-tlaib-delivers-a-response-to-bidens-state-of-the-union

snip

She praised Biden for taking action to get "shots in arms" and delivering "emergency relief" after taking office, saying he "stopped what could have been an economic freefall." "

No one fought harder for President Biden's agenda than progressives," she said, adding that "two forces" stood in the way of passing Build Back Better, Biden's major climate and social spending package.

"A Republican Party that serves only the rich and powerful, and just enough corporate-backed Democratic obstructionists to help them succeed," she listed. Although Tlaib didn't call out any lawmakers by name, it was clear her harshest words were directed at moderate Democrats like Sen. Joe Manchin of West Virginia, who torpedoed the spending package in December over concerns on its price tag and possible impacts on inflation.

Tlaib said although many "important parts of the President's agenda became law with the infrastructure bill," Democrats promised voters more. "Roads and bridges are critical, but so are child care and prescription drugs," she said. "And we shouldn't have to choose."

[W_HAMILTON]

111. And that's your opinion.

Fact of the matter is, whatever you want to call them, they only serve to depress (primarily young) voter turnout, which will make it even less likely student loan reform or cancelation is ever addressed.

[lapucelle]

90. It contained a list of things the Working Families Party wants Democratic President Biden to do

through executive action.

While we continue building support in Congress, President Biden can use his executive power to take action right now to deliver for the people:

He can cancel federal student debt, which would be a lifeline for millions of Americans and a transformative economic stimulus.

He can ban federal fossil fuel leasing and drilling, direct federal agencies to reject permits for new fossil fuel projects, AND regulate carbon emissions.

He can fix our labor rules to allow more workers to access overtime pay.

He can change how we calculate the poverty line, so that more Americans become eligible for life-saving federal benefits.

And he can take action to break up pharmaceutical monopolies and make life-saving medicines affordable.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Doing these things through executive action is not President Biden's agenda.

In addition, the speech calls for a "working families majority" at least a few times.

So what would a working families majority do? We’d work with President Biden to deliver for you and your family.

Working Families Party is a political party. A third party promising to "work with" a Democratic president is antithetical to Democratic Party unity.

Representative Tlaib is free to speak for whomever she pleases, but to pretend that this was anything other than a third party response to a Democratic president's SOTU address is disingenuous. She was not speaking for a Congressional caucus. She was speaking for a political party other than the Democratic Party.

https://workingfamilies.org/2022/03/rep-rashida-tlaib-delivers-2022-wfp-response-to-state-of-the-union-address/

[Scrivener7]

32. Sounds like it was quite unnecessary, then.

[Autumn]

36. Yes she did. And Manchin sat with the Republicans, no complaints about that.

[BradAllison]

50. Some people here probably had a tickle in their leg.

GO JOE MANSION!!!! NO FREE SHIT!!!!! BRATTY POOR KIDS CAN STARVE!!!!

[betsuni]

57. Plenty of complaints about that.

http://democraticunderground.com/100216425369

http://democraticunderground.com/10142880364

http://democraticunderground.com/100216425987

http://democraticunderground.com/100216427824

[sheshe2]

80. I see you did not get a comment on your links.

[betsuni]

85. Well, I have no complaints about that.

[sheshe2]

86. You make me laugh.....

[LetMyPeopleVote]

39. I did not watch this speech but I saw this on twitter

Link to tweet

[bigtree]

43. 'I didn't watch the speech, but here's a smear from someone who didn't watch the speech either'

...they blocked me this morning for calling them out on this bullshit propaganda.

The tweet is worthy of the worst of our opposition. You took a made up smear at face value and catapaulted the propaganda here, having admitted you didn't even watch the speech.

Tlaib is accused of threatening the Democratic party, but she actually promoted the president's agenda and advocated for more. It's really stunning to see so many completely uninformed posters attacking this Democrat.

This one with a false tweet claiming Tlaib said she wants to 'take over the Democratic party.' Nothing Tlaib said is working as hard at that than this effort by some to divide this lifelong Dem from the party for making an innocuous political speech.

Weird that with the speech available for hours that critics haven't found one quote they can bandy about, like their false claims about it yesterday.

We have 'Blue Dogs' and 'Problem Solvers' Democrats who are actually working to keep major planks of the Democratic party and president's agenda from being enacted. Are they trying to 'take over the party?'

Rep. Tlaib threatens zero provisions of the Biden agenda, her vote basically inconsequential to their passage, even given her support for basically ALL of it, even the infrastructure bill, which Tlaib did NOT threaten with her protest vote against it with her very astute observation that Manchin would vote against BBB if they were decoupled.

Rep. Tlaib doesn't threaten any of the President's priorities, not in committee where Manchin and Sinema demanded cuts in legislation they didn't intend to vote for in the end, and not on the House floor at voting time.

You just can't say that about 'Blue Dogs' or 'Problem Solvers' who cozy up to republicans, like Manchin sitting on the republican side last night at the president's SOTU. That's a picture of real opposition, not made up propaganda.

[BradAllison]

54. The Problem Solvers have a guy who was running bus trips to the Insurrection

That's ok though.

[dpibel]

55. I share your amazement

The level of vituperation, both before and after, is close to inexplicable for me.

It is especially bizarre that, in a discussion forum where people so often laud our party as being the party of reason and sound discourse, there are people proudly declaring that they hate what Rashida Tlaib said while freely admitting they don't know what she said.

I do understand the mortal terror of a Republican takeover. I share that.

I do not understand acting as if this speech, which those who have actually listened to it know to be about policies that almost everyone supports, represents pretty much the end of the midterms. It was one short speech, not widely published.

It has gotten (along with the "No Labels" and Black Caucus responses) some mild "Dems in Disarray coverage. But I have read nothing saying "Tlaib lit into Biden in a way that destroys all hope" anywhere but here.

[Nixie]

60. When are you going to explain your understanding of

why FoxNews praises “progressives”? Why would FoxNews like what Tlaib said?

[LetMyPeopleVote]

68. I was very pleased with Colin Allred's speech on behalf of the Congressional Black Caucus

Colin gave a very dignified speech and Colin was very respectful of the Democratic Party and Joe Biden's agenda.

I am on Colin's dialing for dollar list. Colin was a very good election law attorney at Marc Elias' firm before he was elected to Congress.

Link to tweet

If you watch the last two minutes, Colin talks about one of my friends who had issues getting a vote by mail ballot. Pam is the former head of the League of Women Voters and even she had to work to get a vote by mail ballot.

[Sunsky]

83. Thanks for sharing

Colin did an excellent job. By the time I switched from MSNBC's coverage, he was finished. I was then treated to an unbelievable fill of SOTU/Biden hate on the BNC, so I quickly returned to MSNBC. Wow. One commentator blasted Biden for not mentioning black people once in his speech and for the "fund the police" line. He also stated that this CBC response was basically a cover for Biden's disregard for African Americans.
When this response was announced I saw a few posters here that were critical of such a response from the CBC. I can only surmise that they were uninformed of the disinformation campaign targeted at the black community.

[bigtree]

87. "I didn't watch her speech, I watched the speech of the guy I agree with"

"...but I'll just leave that here on a thread about Rep. Tlaib."

[dpibel]

56. Why should I watch the speech

when I have the unimpeachable word of a random voice on twitter?

I mean, if you can't trust something called "JusticeDemWatch" to give accurate information, who can you trust?

[sheshe2]

82. Actually I have followed and read their research.

I have followed the links and the money.

It is pretty interesting.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

89. I have been following the Justice Democrats for a while

Last edited Thu Mar 3, 2022, 12:58 PM - Edit history (1)

I have been following the Justice Democrats and its predecessor and affiliates for a while including the "brand new congress group", Our revolution and other groups created by Cenk, Kyle Kulinksi, Waleed Shahid, Zack Exley and their ilk. I am on the Justice Democrat email list and I have even listened once or twice to the Justice Democrat podcast which is amusingly called "Just Us" democrats. The Justice Democrats emails are fun to laugh at and I love the hatred this group shows to the Democratic Party, establishment Democrats and best of all corporate democrats. The posts attacking the DCCC for raising money to elect real Democrats are really amusing.

I have been following a number of posters on twitter who dislike the Justice Democrats who have issues with the concept of the Justice Democrat group wanting to take over the Democratic party and remake into their image.

Link to tweet

This poster is not the only person who has issues with the concept that the Justice Democrats want to take over the Democratic Party

Link to tweet

Again, the above posts are consistent with the hatred of the Democratic Party by the Justice Democrat group that I see on the almost daily emails that I get from the Justice Democrats and other members of the Just Us Democrats.

I am glad that I did not waste my time listening to Tlaib's speech. You might want to listen to Colin Allred's response on behalf of the Congressional Black Caucus. This response was well organized, and I am glad that the Congressional Black Caucus is committed to supporting President Baiden and the agenda of the Democratic Party. I am on Colin's dialing for dollars list and will be donating to him again.

Link to tweet

[Nixie]

61. "Obstructionist Democrats". This is the slippery slope

and the dishonesty. She should just name them instead of shrouding who it is under”Democrats”. Enough with the dishonest cloak-and-dagger drama and quit insinuating “Democrats” are the obstructionists which the Working Party will save us from, of course.

For that matter, it was two sides obstructing Biden’s Infrastructure plan, and it went on for months, but she doesn’t mention that obstruction, of course. The BIF was ready for passage months ago and should never have been held up for brand building of any other side group du jour. That bill had great jobs for all Americans and it was very visibly held up with no gain coming from the waiting. Jobs jobs jobs, thank you Biden, and thank you Pelosi for the vote on the bill and ending the fringe fighting.

[rogue emissary]

59. Here's the transcript at the link below.

https://workingfamilies.org/2022/03/rep-rashida-tlaib-delivers-2022-wfp-response-to-state-of-the-union-address/


Had to scroll past a lot of right wing articles to find it.

You didn't miss much as she left out a lot of important issues.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

66. No, Biden Can't Forgive Student Loans By Executive Order

This has been discussed. The legal issue is clear and Biden cannot forgive student loans in the real world by executive order.
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100216173134

President Biden does not have the power to cancel student debt

Link to tweet

Advocates of debt cancelation by executive order point out that the Higher Education Act gives the Secretary of Education power to “enforce, pay, compromise, waive, or release any right, title, claim, lien, or demand, however acquired.” This provision would seem to give the Secretary broad power to cancel student debt.

But as financial aid expert Mark Kantrowitz notes, another part of the statute limits the secretary’s authority. He only has the power to cancel obligations owed to the U.S. government “in the performance of, and with respect to, the functions, powers, and duties, vested in him by this part.”

In other words, the Secretary of Education only has the power to forgive student debt when Congress gives it to him.

When President Biden has canceled student debt, it has always been under the authority of a specific program authorized by Congress. Borrower defense is one example: Congress gives the Secretary of Education authority to cancel debt after instances of outright fraud. Congress also allows the secretary to cancel debt when borrowers experience a total and permanent disability. Borrowers who work in public service for ten years can also receive a loan discharge.

In each of these circumstances, Congress created a specific provision for loan cancelation, and required borrowers to meet certain conditions before receiving forgiveness. If the Secretary really had the broad authority to cancel student loans whenever he saw fit, Congress wouldn’t need to create specific programs such as Public Service Loan Forgiveness. The very existence of those programs proves the limits of the executive branch’s authority.....

The debate over whether the President Biden can cancel student debt with the flick of his pen is a distraction. He can’t, but there are better solutions on the table. Congress and the Department of Education should work together to put them into practice.

[bigtree]

81. Majority Leader Chuck Schumer advocated for this again, just a few days ago

Chuck Schumer @SenSchumer Feb 28
The student debt burden falls especially hard on Black borrowers:

The median Black borrower will owe 95% of their debt 20 years after starting college, while the median white borrower will only owe 6%.

@POTUS can #CancelStudentDebt now and help close the racial wealth gap.


Chuck Schumer @SenSchumer Feb 28
With the flick of a pen, President Biden could #CancelStudentDebt—a burden that falls especially hard on Black borrowers.

From me and @DerrickNAACP: https://t.co/i4mbTFZ8ym

...but, Forbes says.

Link to tweet

[Celerity]

110. Why hasn't Biden relased the memo he ordered the DOE to write as to whether he has the authority

to cancel student loan debt via EO?

He has been sitting on it for almost a year.

80 Senators and House members (many big power player leaders in our Party, hardly Squad types) sent him a letter 5 weeks ago requesting the memo finally be released. Many also think he does have the EO authority.

see the letter and all signatories here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216426775#post93


Also, from you link:

Mark Kantrowitz is private student loan shill, of course he is going to argue against dipping into his gravy train.

http://privatestudentloans.guru/about.html

[LetMyPeopleVote]

112. Speaker Nancy Pelosi says Pres. Biden does not have the power to forgive student loan debt

Link to tweet

[Celerity]

113. She is not the sole determiner of that. You are ignoring the far greater number of Dem Senators

and House members who say he does have the authority.

Just release the memo, and we move on from there, whichever way it shakes out. It should have been released ages ago.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

114. Do you tire of being wrong?

If these house members really want this to be the policy, then pass a bill. President Biden will sign such a bill

Link to tweet

Joe Biden never promised to cancel all student debt. This is from his website

Link to tweet

What Joe can do legally is cancel some debt that was due to fraudulent schools or other circumstances. President Biden has already canceled $5.8 billion in student loan debt 💸 for the disabled & victims of predatory lending practices.

Link to tweet

The law is clear here and Joe Biden does have the power to cancel all student debt and such a program will need a bill.

[Celerity]

115. Release the memo.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

116. Again, do you ever tire of being wrong

The sources cited are clear and I trust Speaker Pelosi and the sources in the Forbes article. The Biden administration has clearly stated their view on the law. Your wishes here are amusing but do not support your position.

[Celerity]

118. Biden talked multiple times about across-the-board student debt loan relief (not narrowly targeted).

Also, as I already showed, one of the 'sources you trust' is a private student loan advocate, hardly a disinterested neutral party, as they have a tonne of skin in the loan game.

As for the rest of this subject

The big, unanswered question (as much as you claim it is, it is NOT, not at all) is whether he can do across the board forgiveness (whether it is his 10K or whether it is more, such as Schumer, Warren, etc want) via Executive Order.

Biden himself ordered his Department of Education to determine that very question. They did, yet Biden has not released that very memo for what will soon be a year now. It serves no good purpose to sit on it either way.

Release it, and then all parties can proceed from there.

As for across the board forgiveness (NOT strictly targeted) being talked about by Biden himself, that you are trying to deny happened:


From Forbes (who you yourself and other posters used and/or referred to in this thread for validation):

Biden Affirms: “I Will Eliminate Your Student Debt”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamminsky/2020/10/07/biden-affirms-i-will-eliminate-your-student-debt/?sh=39c8740758a7

Biden reaffirmed his commitment to broad student loan forgiveness at a town hall in Miami on Tuesday.

In response to a question from a young person concerned about student loan debt and a lack of economic opportunity, Biden responded, “You get all these degrees and you get all this debt, and you get in a position where you can’t get a job because no one is hiring, or they’re hiring at very low wages... I’m going to eliminate your student debt if you come from a family [making less] than $125,000 and went to a public university.” Biden also said, “I’m going to make sure everyone gets $10,000 knocked off of their student debt” in response to economic hardships caused by the pandemic.

Biden further proposed giving young people a $15,000 credit towards a downpayment on their first home. “This is how people accumulate wealth,” he said. “This is how people get started. We have to recognize you and advance you. You are the future.”

Biden, who had initially been hesitant to endorse broad cancellation of student loan debt, has embraced more dramatic steps to alleviate the burden of student loan debt in the wake of the pandemic and recent racial justice protests. The volume of student loan debt has grown enormously over the course of the past 10 years, from around $830 billion in 2010 to at least $1.6 trillion last year. Student loan debt is now the largest form of consumer debt carried by Americans, aside from mortgages. There is more outstanding student loan debt then there is credit card debt or auto loans. Over 40 millions Americans have student loans. At least 70% of college graduates leave school in debt. College students were graduating with an average of $30,000 in student loans in 2013, but only three years later, that figure had jumped to $37,000.

snip



from his own tweet (and Warren definitely wants across the board cancellation, not targeted)



here is the actual tweet

Link to tweet

more


https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamminsky/2020/09/23/would-biden-enact-broad-student-loan-forgiveness-these-advocates-say-yes/?sh=286488473964

Joe Biden, who had initially been hesitant to endorse broad cancellation of student loan debt, has embraced more dramatic steps to alleviate the burden of student loan debt in the wake of the pandemic and recent racial justice protests. Under his plan, Biden would forgive all undergraduate federal student loan debt for borrowers with annual incomes under $125,000 who attended public colleges and universities, as well as historically black colleges and universities (HBCUs) and private minority-serving institutions (MSIs). Biden also supports $10,000 in across-the-board student loan forgiveness for all borrowers as an economic stimulus in response to the recession. He has also expressed support for Senator Warren’s proposal to amend the bankruptcy code to allow student loan debt to be more easily discharged in bankruptcy.

Biden also supports debt-free college initiatives for community colleges and public universities that are similar to plans previously offered by Senator Bernie Sanders (D-VT) and Senator Elizabeth Warren (D-MA). Biden has also supported cracking down on the for-profit college industry and strengthening the relief available to borrowers harmed by these schools. His running mate, Senator Kamala Harris (D-CA), has also been a critic of for-profit colleges, and she helped take down a predatory national for-profit college chain while she was Attorney General of California.


https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1079654815





Finally

The twitter account you posted also disingenuously cherry-picked (and then false-framed a conclusion) from Biden's own campaign website, when they said he never talked about across the board, broad-based 10K forgiveness.

He did.

https://joebiden.com/the-biden-emergency-action-plan-to-save-the-economy/






Release the memo.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

119. Again, you really enjoy being WRONG in your posts

If you read the material that you posted, you would see that Joe Biden is asking Congress to pass law to accomplish these goals. In the real world, Joe is proposing plans/proposals that need to be adopted by Congress. If you read the material that you posted, you would see that Joe is proposing plans which in the real world means that these plans need to be adopted by Congress.

On the last quote you posted, Joe was going to ask Congress for such authority. https://joebiden.com/the-biden-emergency-action-plan-to-save-the-economy/

THIRD, bring the leaders of Congress together to build the next deal. This was a good start. But more must be done. Congress approved direct cash relief — $1,200 per person to help working families through this crisis. But it’s a one-off. And Congress didn’t include direct student loan forgiveness, or Social Security boosts for seniors, or cost-free treatment for COVID-19, full paid sick leave for our workers, or sufficient fiscal relief to states. Joe Biden would:

I note that you omitted the last paragraph of this material

The bottom line is that Congress will have to keep acting. This is not the last bill. There will be more. And Joe Biden would do whatever it takes, spend whatever it takes, move heaven and earth to help all the people harmed by this crisis.

Joe would need Congressional approval to do these proposals. If Joe though that the POTUS had the magical authority to accoplish these goals, he would not need Congress to pass additional bills

If you look at Joe's campaign webisite, you will see what Joe actuall prpoosed., This is from Joe's website

Link to tweet

These proposals also require congressional approval. Joe Biden has made such proposals but unless Congress acts he cannot implement these proposals.

If you want to cancel student loan debt, you need legislation and tweets are not sufficient to accomplish this goal https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2022/02/04/democrats-tweet-that-student-loans-should-be-cancelled-but-twitter-claps-back/?sh=5117abf23abd

. Congress wants student loans cancelled, but Congress hasn’t passed any legislation
Tweets can do only do so much for wide-scale student loan cancellation. Sure, they motivate the base and spread the message. (Shock Poll: Student loan borrowers think all student loans will be cancelled before May). However, while progressive members of Congress want student loans cancelled, social media is a sub-optimal way to achieve a positive outcome. It’s important to make your voice heard, but without concrete action to support an online campaign, the efforts are relatively futile. The issue is that while Congress wants student loans cancelled, Congress hasn’t passed any legislation......

Biden has focused on targeted student loan cancellation rather than wide-scale student loan cancellation. Since becoming president, for example, Biden has cancelled $15 billion of student loans. However, he has called upon Congress to cancel $10,000 of student loans for borrowers. If Biden planned to enact wide-scale student loan cancellation through an executive order, he would have so already.... He has expressed doubt that he has executive authority to cancel student loans for all borrowers......

If Biden cancels student loans, past student loan borrowers will want compensation
Supporters of wide-scale student loan cancellation want one-time student loan forgiveness. In a perfect world, Biden (or Congress) would cancel all, or most, of the $1.7 trillion of outstanding student loan debt. That would be a major financial relief for current student loan borrowers. However, it wouldn’t help future student loan borrowers or student loan borrowers who already paid off their student loans. That doesn’t sit well with some in the latter group. “When and if Biden does cancel student loan debt don’t forget to send a refund to past federal student loan borrowers who worked hard to pay off their loans and delayed the same things you say current borrowers are delaying because they are paying off their loans.” Student loan borrowers who paid off student loans want their student loans paid for too. Many worked two or three jobs and made other financial sacrifices to pay student loans. Will they be included in any wide-scale student loan cancellation?

Again, you may want to read the materials you post. None of these materials support the concept of a magical executive power to cancel student loans. In the real world when one talks about submitting proposals to Congress and working with Congress, that means Congress needs to act to accomplish these proposals.

If Joe tried to adopt these proposals without congressional approval, there will be litigation that will tie these proposals up for a long time

Link to tweet

[betsuni]

120. Thank you.

This has been discussed many times.

[lapucelle]

121. It's clear that candidate Biden was calling for legislative action

to cancel some tuition-related student debt. It was a targeted approach, not a magic wand.

The second plan calls for the forgiveness of federal undergraduate student debt for those making under $125,000. The forgiveness would apply to tuition-related expenses for public colleges and universities as well as private institutions primarily serving minority populations.

“I would finance this new student debt proposal by repealing the high-income ‘excess business losses’ tax cut in the CARES Act,” Biden wrote. “That tax cut overwhelmingly benefits the richest Americans and is unnecessary for addressing the current COVID-19 economic relief efforts.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/09/biden-proposes-plans-on-medicare-and-student-debt-as-job-losses-soar.html

[LetMyPeopleVote]

122. None of the sources cited above supported the claim that Joe Biden promised to use executive power

I read the material and more importantly, I understood the material. It is clear that Biden is waiting on Congress to adopt his proposals. This quote from Jan Psaki makes that clear https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/democrats-increase-pressure-biden-cancel-student-loan-debt-n1256716?cid=sm_npd_ms_tw_ma

White House press secretary Jen Psaki appeared to throw cold water on the effort later Thursday, telling reporters that while "the president has and continues to support canceling $10,000 of federal student loan debt per person as a response to the Covid crisis," any further action would need to come from Congress.

"He's calling on Congress to draft the proposal," she said, though she didn't say what specific measures he would support. "And if it is passed and sent to his desk, he will look forward to signing it."

She later tweeted that the White House would also be "reviewing whether there are any steps he can take through executive action.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

123. I am curious, what are the plans for the people who have paid off their debt.

Last edited Wed Mar 30, 2022, 06:38 PM - Edit history (2)

I read the sources your cited to confirm that none of these sources supported the proposition that Joe Biden promised to use executive power to cancel debt. All of the sources cited made very clear that Joe Biden would support Congress pass a law to cancel this student debt.

One of the sources that your material referenced or I found while checking your cited material raised an issue that has been pestering me. What is to be done on future student loan debt and how will persons who were responsible and pay off their student loans be treated. I was on scholarship in law school but still had to borrow some money. I paid off that loan many decades ago. My son was offered a full scholarship to one law school but went to a higher ranked law school. He paid off his student debt a long time ago. Another child is on track to have her student debt cancelled by working for a public agency.

As noted above, the current proposals will not help people who were responsible and repaid their student loans or people who will incure debt in the future. https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2022/02/04/democrats-tweet-that-student-loans-should-be-cancelled-but-twitter-claps-back/?sh=5117abf23abd

Supporters of wide-scale student loan cancellation want one-time student loan forgiveness. In a perfect world, Biden (or Congress) would cancel all, or most, of the $1.7 trillion of outstanding student loan debt. That would be a major financial relief for current student loan borrowers. However, it wouldn’t help future student loan borrowers or student loan borrowers who already paid off their student loans. That doesn’t sit well with some in the latter group. “When and if Biden does cancel student loan debt don’t forget to send a refund to past federal student loan borrowers who worked hard to pay off their loans and delayed the same things you say current borrowers are delaying because they are paying off their loans.” Student loan borrowers who paid off student loans want their student loans paid for too. Many worked two or three jobs and made other financial sacrifices to pay student loans. Will they be included in any wide-scale student loan cancellation?

What will be done for such persons under these plans.

As for executive action, I remind you that the SCOTUS struck down Biden's OSHA rules for employers of 100 or more employees either being tested or vaccinated. The case on this issue is clear and that proposal should had been upheld by the SCOTUS. I seriously doubt that the SCOTUS would uphold the forgiveness of a very large amount of student debt by executive order in the real world. How do you propose getting around this problem in the real world?

I look forward to you posting more material that will not support your claims. If you do so, please answer the above questions.

[lapucelle]

124. What would make anyone think that Kantrowitz is a "private student loan shill"?

Top Ten Reasons You Should Not Borrow Private Student Loans
By Mark Kantrowitz

Student loans are a wart on your financial future. The more you borrow, the more difficulty you will have trying to repay the debt. Borrow as little as you need, not as much as you can.

Here are some of the many reasons why you should not borrow private student loans. If you are thinking about borrowing a private student loan or a private parent loan, read this list carefully, so that you can make an informed decision.

http://privatestudentloans.guru/do-not-borrow-private-student-loans.html

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Private Student Loans
By Mark Kantrowitz

Private student loans are non-federal education loans made by banks, non-bank financial institutions, credit unions and state loan programs. The terms of a private student loan are set by the lender, not the federal government, and the loans are not guaranteed by the federal government. Eligibility for a private student loan and the interest rates and fees are usually based on the credit scores of the borrower and cosigner (if any). Private student loans may also have minimum income requirements, maximum debt-to-income ratios and other criteria.

Students should borrow federal first, because federal student loans are usually cheaper, more available and have better repayment terms.

http://privatestudentloans.guru/private-student-loans.html

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markkantrowitz/archive/?sh=1fd13f71a815

[LetMyPeopleVote]

125. Good post

[jalan48]

67. Did she sit with the Republicans?

[Nixie]

69. Did she vote with Republicans?

Yes she did.

Whatever the excuse, the squad joined Republicans in voting against Biden’s infrastructure bill.

[betsuni]

74. +1

[sheshe2]

84. +1

[Emile]

109. No, but Joe Manchin did.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

126. I keep seeing demands that Joe Biden cancel student loans when we need legislation to do this

No one has shown that Joe has this power. I saw that there is at least one Congress person who is proposing a bill to accomplish this goal. https://www.businessinsider.com/meet-congressman-vicente-gonzalez-cancel-student-loan-debt-legislation-2022-3

A Democratic congressman wants to make one thing clear: Canceling student debt isn't a giveaway.

Texas Rep. Vicente Gonzalez told Insider that he graduated from law school in the 1990s with $100,000 in student debt. He said it prevented him from buying his first home "for a long time," from getting a better car, and from improving his living conditions.

"It was overwhelming," Gonzalez said. "I focused on nothing but paying that debt off because it really felt like I didn't own my degree without paying that debt off."

Now, he wants to make sure other Americans don't run into the hurdles that he did. On February 14, Gonzalez introduced a bill to allow the Education secretary to forgive up to $25,000 in student debt for every federal borrower. The press release said the bill would provide about $775 billion in relief for over 45 million Americans. It would forgive almost half of the $1.7 trillion in student debt held by borrowers in the US.