German / Italian led no-fly zone?

[Sgent]

I get that we don't want to directly involve ourselves in a no-fly zone due to MAD, but would it be possible for non-nuclear powers to institute it? Germany / Italy / Turkey / Spain / maybe baltic or nordic countries? We could provide a lot of the support and armaments just like we are currently for Ukraine.

[bottomofthehill]

1. If NATO countries involved in an air war, so are we.

[Renew Deal]

2. Are they ready to shoot down Russian planes and helicopters?

What about Ukrainian drones?

[lapfog_1]

3. Sweden / Finland

are not members of NATO... so they could engage.

The risk is a nuclear strike on Stockholm or similar... plus they would need to fly over NATO territory to reach the "no fly" enforcement area.

Doubt they will do it.

[mwooldri]

6. Kinda what I'm thinking.

An EU no fly zone. Ireland, Austria, Finland, Sweden, Cyprus and Malta are non-NATO countries.

But Rossya is threatening the nukes...

[Martin68]

4. Putin' nuclear threat was against NATO. Those countries are NATO members. I don't know if Putin is

bluffing. I hope so.

[left-of-center2012]

5. No ! Just no !

One NATO country involves every NATO.

[Sgent]

8. That traditionally hasn't been true

an attack on Nato country is an attack on all, but defending your selves from a Nato country's attack doesn't involve all. See 2nd Iraq War, Vietnam, Turkey/Syria, US/Panama, etc. That said, there has never been a situation like this in Europe or NA proper.

[left-of-center2012]

9. In none of those cases you mentioned ...

In none of those cases you mentioned was the United States attacked.
We were the aggressor.

NATO is for defense.

[Bev54]

7. No but Sweden, Finland, Cyprus, Ireland, Malta and others could

None of them are part of NATO

[Chainfire]

12. I am certainly no lawyer, but I believe that article 5 only comes into play if a NATO member is

attacked. There is a big difference in attacking and being attacked.

[Bev54]

13. None of the countries I named are in NATO

[Chainfire]

14. So which one do you think wants to take a chance of destroying itself

to do NATO's work? That is just unreasonable.

[muriel_volestrangler]

16. They'd have to fly over NATO country airspace to do it

and I don't think Russia would care to make the distinction. Plus they'd be heavily outnumbered (total population of those you name about 23 million; I suspect only Sweden and Finland have substantial fighter squadrons). It's not a feasible scenario.

[relayerbob]

10. No. And talk about the worst choices

Germany? Italy? Yeah, the Russians will love having them flying around again, after the 1940s

[Chainfire]

11. No entity but Ukraine can enforce the no fly zone. They are already at war with Russia.

All we can do is send them weapons systems if we believe that Putin will use nuclear weapons if he is "attacked." There will come a day when Putin will use the same threat for us supplying weapons. Once Putin knows that we take those threats seriously, and sees it as weakness and fear, he will use them to have us bring him waffles and coffee in the morning. "If you don't release my yacht, I am going to destroy the world" kind of thing.

Europe and the US are hiding behind NATO at this time; I am not saying that that is a bad thing, but I do think that it is a thing. We are going to end up having to subdue Putin or kneel to him, I trust that our leaders know when it will be time to act and I hope they are preparing for the eventual conflict. Make no mistake, Putin is at war with the West, the West just isn't at war with Putin. Yet.

All of this crap could be avoided if one well placed Russian was willing to give his life to save the world. With Putin gone, I believe the Russian leadership would try to defuse the ticking time bomb.

It is such a shame that one insane tyrant can cause so much pain and suffering, and threaten the existence of our Species.

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

15. No, declaring a no-fly zone doesnt magically clear the skies, it means WAR!

First you take out all the enemy air defenses, radar sites, mobile and fixed anti-aircraft launchers, command and control elements, to protect our OWN aircraft. And many of Russian air defense assets are on bordering Russian soil, so no again.

Of course you shootdown any aircraft engaging you too.

Its not a magic wand you wave to stop enemy planes from operating, its WWIII