Ukraine: Secret battle plans left behind by Russian troops showed Russia planned 15 day war

[honest.abe]

Ukraine's Defense Ministry said Wednesday that its armed forces had seized secret battle plans left behind by Russian soldiers. It said the documents suggested Russia's war with Ukraine would last 15 days.

The seized documents were posted on Facebook by the ministry and showed the war plans of one of the units of the battalion tactical group of the 810th Separate Guards Naval Infantry Brigade of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, the ministry said.

An invasion map, a table of call signs, and a list of personnel were in the documents, according to Ukraine's Defense Ministry.

https://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-revealed-secret-battle-plans-211801990.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

I guess they still have a few more days to meet that timetable. Somehow I think they aren't going to make it.

[sarisataka]

1. Beware of deception

Operation Mincemeat
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mincemeat

[Hekate]

2. Indeed

[Wednesdays]

4. "All war is deception."

-- Sun Tzu

[gristy]

5. Interesting...

Long article. No time to read the whole thing, but what I did read I found quite interesting.

[ibegurpard]

9. No shit

"Secret" battle plans conveniently left behind. And "journalists" publish this...

[paleotn]

13. Sometimes. Not always. Lee's Special Order 191

Antietam. If only McClellan had fully exploited the best intel coup of the entire war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Order_191

[lagomorph777]

3. Maybe they will be done in 15 days.

All of them either dead, captured, or limping home.

[ColinC]

6. How many days has it been so far?

There were rumors that Russia is running out of resources. But if they planned for 15 days I can't imagine that be the case quite yet.

[ibegurpard]

7. Secret battle plans just left behind?

Jesus who's in charge of publishing this kind of stuff???
Anything for clicks I guess...
And not a slam on the OP... just more completely irresponsible "journalism."

[maxsolomon]

8. It could take 15 months.

Putin has time and plenty of fuel. We still don't know his end game.

[orangecrush]

10. 15 days?

[AZLD4Candidate]

11. Putin's government is as much of a crapshow internally as Hitler's was.

Same crap, different a-hole.

[yagotme]

12. Battle plans don't last past the first engagement.

Or words to that effect.

[paleotn]

15. Yep. Plans rarely survive first contact with the enemy.

Some have later expiration dates than others. Desert Storm was one where the original plans held up relatively well. Midway, however was a train wreck for the Japanese from the word go.

[yagotme]

17. Midway WAS a good plan.

Too bad for them we had some insight into it. Battle plans don't go well when both sides have prior knowledge. Desert Storm, well, Saddam didn't have a clue. We hit him where he least expected it, and used the Marines as a feint off the coast to make him look the other way.

[paleotn]

20. Japanese refused to believe their intentions were compromised.

even after strong evidence that the jig might well be up. When the first Japanese raids reached Midway, the airfields were empty. Midway sortied everything they had as soon as the Japanese strike force was in range. Instead of keeping the possibility at least in the back of his mind and contemplating how Nimitz might react if the plan was compromised, Nagumo refused to even entertain the possibility. That is until his scout planes located US carriers where they couldn't possibly be. Such calcified thinking cost the Japanese dearly throughout the war.

[yagotme]

22. If you look at one of the WORST tactical errors the Japanese made,

was probably flip-flopping the bombs/torpedoes while trying to figure out what was going on. This left a lot of aircraft on deck, fueled, and partway through rearmament with a lot of HE laying around. When we dropped our bombs, well, it just magnified the explosive power of our bombs, and the inefficient firefighting equipment couldn't do the job.

[paleotn]

29. Bingo. Nagumo flitted from one course to the next.

without fully recognizing the vulnerabilities he was creating.

[usaf-vet]

14. Don't forget the Russians (USSR) thought invading Afganastan was going to be easy.

Don't forget the Russians thought invading Afghanistan Russian memories are long — and mothers of soldiers, in particular, American officials say, could easily hark back to the 15,000 troops killed when the Soviet Union invaded and occupied Afghanistan, or the thousands killed in Chechnya. 3 days ago was going to be easy.

During this almost ten years lasting war, which ended with the withdrawal of the Red Army in February 1989, the Soviet Union failed to defeat the Mujahedin primarily due to an initially false strategic alignment and severe tactical deficiencies.

[L. Coyote]

16. Natalie Musumeci reporting on a Facebook post.

Just a suggested post title.

[Toorich]

18. Remember Robt E. Lee's battle plans...

.... that were found wrapped around 3 cigars by a couple of Union privates.

Unfortunately, McClellan didn't use them to full advantage, so Antietam was more or less a draw.
Of course, without knowing what Lee intended it would have been more disastrous for the North.

[FakeNoose]

19. They were there for a peaceful training mission - why did they need secret battle plans?

Hmmmmm ......

[paleotn]

21. Probably useless at this point...

War is a notoriously fluid exercise.

[honest.abe]

23. I think the point is things have not gone as planned.

[paleotn]

25. Rarely do.

[honest.abe]

26. In this case its more significant..

There are reports that the Russians only planned supplies for 15 days.

[paleotn]

27. US doctrine is plan for the best, logistics for the worst.

15 days. Having trouble getting even that up to their front line units. T-80's apparently out of diesel. Guess the crews were off looking for a gas station when the Ukrainians showed up. Unbelievable.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=16441378

I guess it is unfair to look at them through an American prism. Take away the nukes and they're Kazakhstan with more empty space.

[honest.abe]

28. Indeed.

[Wingus Dingus]

24. For those saying this is a deception--I don't know, but

they did seem to believe they'd be greeted as liberators in the east. They probably expected areas of civilian and military resistance, but also probably were banking on the plan that Kyiv would fall quickly and the government and military would be swiftly decapitated/dissolved. Putin likes the "fait accompli" strategy of quickly taking over before the rest of the world can get its pants on.