The September Surprise: Blowback from Benghazi threatens Obama’s Lead.

[leveymg]

Last edited Sun Nov 4, 2012, 08:40 AM - Edit history (15)

Don't underestimate the power the fear of terrorism still has for many Americans. Blowback from Benghazi is not over - if anything, it's now churning around in the psyche of many Americans, gathering strength like a late season Atlantic hurricane.

Since the September 11 attack in Benghazi, a growing number of Americans have begun to question the Obama Administration’s veracity and competence in handling issues in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA). More than anything else there is the suspicion of a lack of candor. That is well-founded, but not for the reasons that Fox News and Mitt Romney have been suggesting.

In the immediate aftermath, most of that unease about the attack focused on accusations raised about the apparently inadequate security at the US Mission that night. (On edit, 10/28: Those suspicions have morphed and escalated into accusations that top national security officials, and even the President, were personally involved in decisions to not provide outside aid to Americans on the scene the night of the attack. Questions about that and allegations of White House stonewalling have ignited on Right-wing internet sites, and is seeping into more mainstream media. See, e.g., USA Today, David Jackson, "Obama rebuffs Benghazi questions." http://www.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2012/10/27/obama-benghazi-denver-tv-station-libya/1662141/)

(On edit, 10/28: The greatest danger here, as in all things political is not the possible validity of the accusations, but the appearance of a coverup, fed by conflicting accounts by high officials. While it is unclear whether there is any validity to accusations that help was available but intentionally withheld -- which on its face appears both shocking and implausible -- the power of these allegations to mobilize a vast swath of Wingnutters is real. What gives this narrative power, however, is that there is an underlying truth that Administration officials prefer not to discuss. There is a bigger but more complex story lurking under the simplistic RW narrative that neither side in what is becoming a politicized game appears to be able to deal with candidly. So, in the absence of candor public suspicions grow and are spun into political fictions. In reality, as I argue, what is being covered up is simply a policy that was being carried out, the details of which are still classified. We now come to what that is.)

In recent weeks attention has begun to also fix on a wider set of questions about what Ambassador Chris Stevens was doing in Benghazi, and now on the Turkish (diplomat) who departed the compound just an hour before the attack commenced. That meeting appears to have been redacted on the copy of the Ambassador's hand-annotated itinerary that was found at the scene by reporters after the attack, posted at The Washington Post. See, http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/world/sensitive-documents-left-with-little-security-at-us-mission-in-benghazi/35/ The State Department waited nearly a month to reveal the fact that meeting had even occurred.

According to a transcript, on October 9, 2012 the State Department held a telephone conference to brief reporters on what happened in Benghazi, revealing a final meeting Ambassador Stevens had the night of September 11, 2012 shortly before the attack began. See, http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2012/10/198791.htm

That meeting went virtually unremarked upon until a retired CIA officer, Clare Lopez, published an article in which she (rightly or wrongly) raised questions about whether Ambassador Stevens had actually been meeting with the Turks about organizing and arming Libyan jihadis traveling to Syria.

***

The Benghazi security issue seized upon by some House Republicans turns out to actually be a shiny object, a distraction from the far more dangerous issue of the U.S. policy of “regime change” in MENA. Regardless of the truth of Ms. Lopez's specific charges, both Libya and Syria involve serious, unresolved issues related to the Administration's conduct of covert regime change operations. So does Iran, but that project is less developed. Neither Party seem to be able to publicly address these regime change issues with anything approaching candor or internal consensus, and (it is hardly surprising, therefore, that) both candidates have gone out of their ways to avoid discussing it in any meaningful way.

The death of Chris Stevens forced the overarching issue of whether it was actually wise policy for the US Ambassador to have coordinated the armed opposition in tribal East Libya knowing that the place is swarming with al-Qaeda like groups, and that the region was the epicenter of Sunni suicide bombers who had until recently been going into civil war Iraq to kill Americans and the Shi'ia population there.

Even more pressing, Stevens and the Administration were well aware of the fact that Gadhaffi had tens of thousands of portable anti-aircraft missiles (MANPADs) that would most likely fall into the hands of these same groups when the regime was overthrown. Of course, they did, and about 15,000 MANPADs are now in circulation and landing in Syria, Gaza and on international black markets.

But, here's the kicker. The US and other western countries proceeded with regime change, anyway, some with the expectation that those fighters and weapons would eventually turn against the Syrian regime in the event that the Arab Spring insurrection would turn into a Sunni against Sh'ia religious civil war, which it did. That is exactly what has happened. The problem with that outcome, aside from the tens of thousands of people on both sides who have died in Syria, and the tens of thousands of Libyans who also died killing each other, was these weapons and Holy Warriors armed with SA-7 and SA-24 antiaircraft missiles cannot now be contained – they are the very angry Genie outside the Bottle -- and there is a very high risk they and their uncrated Libyan MANPADs will be coming to the Friendly Skies near you.

***

But, the overarching policy issue of regime change at the cost of arming terrorists and plunging the region into religious war -- and the resulting blowback -- hasn't even begun to be discussed, and the consequences haven't yet been fully realized. We need to start having that conversation, openly, now.

I just wish it wasn't in the middle of an election, and that Mitt Romney and Rep. King -- who are utter hypocrites, and would not mind blood on their hands -- weren't grabbing ahold of these unfolding events to try to score political points.

I think the only way the Obama Administration is going to get out of this mess is with brutal candor.

The White House needs to reveal the unvarnished truth of what Ambassador Stevens was actually doing in Benghazi. If his last meeting with the Turkish Charge d'Affairs the evening of the attack was to try to reign in the Libyan fighters and weapons (particularly MANPADs) flowing to Syria, we need to know exactly what was discussed between 7:30 and 8:30pm along with what was said to the local militia leaders whom Stevens met with in downtown Benghazi at 4pm the previous afternoon.

If, however -- as has been surmised by some ex-CIA officers over the past couple of weeks -- the Ambassador was actually facilitating the continued flow of arms and fighters to Syria, the Administration needs to defend that policy. I rather think a large percentage of the American people will rally around him, even if I personally believe the policy is a terrible mistake.

Either way, a lack of candor may well sink Obama - which is exactly what I want to avoid, because Romney will only blindly escalate things into a regional war. If recent history is any guide, blowback from Benghazi risks turning Mitt Romney into the next wartime President, and America into an even meaner post-9/11 police state.

___________________________
P.S. - Like most of us here, I am also sick of RW spin and slanted polling. But, sometimes we shouldn't ignore the polls and the newspapers, even news we don't welcome. I am not making this up - the Benghazi attack has become a major, perhaps decisive issue, that has significantly undermined Obama's support, particularly among Independents. Here's a Pew Poll from a couple weeks ago that shows an 11 point drop in favorable opinion of the Administration's foreign policy since April. I wish were wrong, but nothing anyone has said in their comments shows me that the facts are otherwise. Look. I'm reporting facts, not making them up. A recent Pew Poll showed an 11 point loss due to public unease with spreading conflict in MENA and the attack. The American voters quite desperately want peace in the Middle East, and fear that is not what is to come.


http://thehill.com/blogs/global-affairs/terrorism/262867-poll-independent-voters-fault-obamas-handling-of-libya-attack

The Hill:
Romney all but erases Obama's polling lead on foreign policy
By Julian Pecquet - 10/18/12 05:47 PM ET

Mitt Romney has all but erased President Obama’s lead on foreign policy issues in the aftermath of the attack on the U.S. Consulate in Libya, according to a Pew poll released Thursday.

Obama’s lead on foreign policy has plummeted by 11 points since the outbreak of violence in the Middle East that culminated with the death of four Americans in Libya on Sept. 11, according to Pew.

The president holds a slim 47 percent to 43 percent edge over his GOP rival on the issue of who would do a better job on foreign policy, down from a 15-point advantage in September.

The poll of 1,511 adults was conducted two weeks ago, and found that many Americans have soured on the situation in the Middle East: only 25 percent see a positive future for the region, down from 42 percent in April.

The change in mood is likely a result of the attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi that killed Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three other Americans last month.

A separate Pew poll taken last week, also released Thursday, found that a large chunk of independent voters disapprove of Obama’s handling of the Libya situation, possibly helping Romney with a bloc of voters that could decide the election.

[speedoo]

2. Romney has been silent on Benghazi.

So he apparently disagrees with you.

[bluestate10]

11. Exactly!!! If Benghazi was damaging for Obama, Romney's people would be harping it.

Their silence is telling. The next two biggest events for the President are storm response and the November 2 unemployment rate. Disaster response under Craig Fugate has been spectacular and there is no reason to expect that FEMA won't shine this time, if the storm is bad and FEMA excels as expected, a direct comparison will be drawn to Bush and Katrina, that comparison will be good for President Obama. The November 2 UE numbers are tracking to be good, if recent economic reports are any guide. The UE numbers will be the dagger into the heart of the Romney campaign.

[justiceischeap]

44. I'll see your exactly and raise you 2 exactly's!!!

Condi Rice came out to try and throw water on this BS, and Romney gets daily intelligence briefings... his campaign and the GOP has AGREED to hold off on investigations so it doesn't become a political football. If there was a "there" here, they'd be all over the place, shouting from the rooftops.

Promoting this Fox News generated BS -- and it's telling that only conservative leaning or Right-wing whack jobs are talking about this.

If you believe there was some sort of nefarious cover-up, you are buying into the Fox noise machine. Hell, even Geraldo tried to get them to pull back on this conspiracy, truther BS.

Lastly, even if they aren't telling the whole truth on what happened over there (CIA base, thanks much), I'm gonna guess it's for National Security reasons. Sometimes the President and the government lie or withhold the full truth on situations because it harms our national security to talk about them. And I'll bet $10,000 that is why Romney is not making political hay out of this. People beyond our pay grade and Fox noise's pay grade know more than any of us on this situation.

[leveymg]

15. This is seen as a double-edged sword, so the Romney campaign is leaving it to some Rep. Congressmen

I pointed that out in the OP.

[speedoo]

41. Which congressmen is he "using"?

Deep red state congressmen and congressmen from deep red districts are irrelevant. Issa is irrelevant.

[justiceischeap]

45. There is no one talking about this other than you, Fox and GOP operatives. nt

[muriel_volestrangler]

104. You mentioned just one congressman, who you said was saying the same as Romney

That's King. You claimed that ex-CIA officers were the ones making the claims about Sytria; and you are advocating that the Democrats publicise the claims more. You, incredibly, think that this situation, which you suspect will make Obama look bad, and which the Republicans aren't talking about, should be what we talk about now.

Your OP look like a deliberate attempt to sabotage Obama's chances, since Romney hasn't managed that.

What the fuck are you doing?

[leveymg]

110. Same Republican members of the committess who were briefed by Petraeus who complained

loudest about being misinformed that the attack wasn't premediated, but harped on every statement they felt didn't perfectly capture the facts except the CIA Director's, which was in fact the source of the initial confusion on everyone's part. Petraeus walks where others are thrown beneith the oars.

The same Congressmen who never asked any intelligent questions of Undersecretary of State Kennedy. They left that job to the outgoing Congressman from Cleveland, who did elicit confirmation from some of the witnesses about the 15,000 loose Libyan MANPADs, which goes closer to the truth than anything I have yet heard from any of them. Thank you, Dennis. You will be missed.

[muriel_volestrangler]

116. You mentioned nothing about them in the OP. What do they say about arms to Syria?

That's the neocon story you're pushing in the OP. What have these congressmen been saying? And why do you think we need to spread it?

[leveymg]

145. I think the GOP is stuck in a dilemma: they want to score points, but not to upset the policy

The fact that most Americans have had no idea up until now that Libyan Jihadis armed with MANPADs have been flowing into Syria should tell you that there has been a lack of candor by the Administration on the subject of serial regime change operations in MENA.

That lack of public dialogue about policy has opened the door to the worst sort of Republican partisan CT, such as the accusation heard in the RW blogosphere in the last couple days that Obama intentionally wanted Stevens killed.

[hfojvt]

82. the M$M has not though

at least Somerby has been pounding on this story for a week.

[bklyncowgirl]

149. Romney gets intelligence briefings and so does Ryan, he knows what is really going on

It may actually be that Romney is acting responsilbly. Of course if he were to personally speak out on this he might let slip something he shouldn't and if he were to do give out classified information he would be vilified for it.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

3. Why are you pimping this story here?

What good purpose does it serve?

[leveymg]

17. Dems need to understand that the perception of lack of candor endangers reelection.

Don't just view this as threatening. Read and try to be objective about what this means.

[WinkyDink]

30. Yeah, yeah.

[brush]

52. Lack of candor?

Didn't we go through this in the second debate? There was no lack of candor. The President called it an act of terror the day after the attack. The CIA has reported that the administration disclosed what it knew when it knew it as things became clearer. After all it was an attack in a foreign country in the aftermath of a revolution and undergoing nation-building. In other words, much confusion and fog of war. You can't exactly dispatch scores of investigators to cordon off the area with yellow police tape and began an investigation with door-to-door canvassing of witnesses in that environment. You have to rely on intelligence and trusted local source and that takes time. It is so obvious that the repugs want to make political hay with this just as they tried to with the Fast and Furious investigation that went nowhere. Even the same Congressman, Issa, is behind this. And from the President's numbers, it looks like this wild goose chase will go the same route as the Fast and Furious one. Even Romney has dropped it after his humiliation in the second debate. Seems that this OP is just what Congressman Issa would order.

[leveymg]

76. This isn't empty talk re embassy security. It's about Libyan SAMs and US regime change policy

and, specifically, the Ambassador's role in either facilitating or attempting to limit the pipeline of arms and Jihadis flowing from Libya to Syria. The only question about Stevens' role is whether it was facilitation, as alleged, or deterrence, as claimed by the State Dept.

This isn't trivial stuff and meaningless accusations, but instead goes to major issues about foreign policy and war.

[brush]

111. And are you saying that our Congress should be politicizing . . .

. . . what the State Department is doing, and uploading document dumps that expose Libyans working with us while they're at it? Not to mention making public possible US government plans for, as you put it, "either facilitating or attempting to limit the pipeline of arms and Jihadis flowing from Libya to Syria". Are these alleged "Americans", led by Issa, working with us or against us for God's sake?

[leveymg]

112. The clowns who head House Commitees probably don't even read the docs they're given, but we do

or some of us picked up basic literacy -- and the ability to sparingly wield a Sharpie --along the way.

Yes, give us the tapes. Uncut. But that just isn't done.

[brush]

117. So through all your posts . . .

. . . I'm still trying to figure out where you stand on this. The OP would lead one to believe that you're a Romneyite out to damage the President but your follow up posts seem to be backing away from that. WHERE DO YOU STAND ON THIS, because that OP is certainly not helpful to what most on this site stand for?

[RBInMaine]

118. BULLSHIT HANDWRINGING. CUT THE SILLY SHIT ALREADY.

[leveymg]

147. Denying it's importance as "silly" and denigrating my "handwringing" won't make this all go away.

If this were trivial, or simply unfounded bullshit, there wouldn't be this level of hostility raised by the mere suggestion that this presents a problem.

It's obvious most people on our side aren't in the least prepared to deal with this subject except with hostility to anyone who raises the subject, no matter how the issue is framed. That, indeed, worries me. J'Accuse

[justiceischeap]

4. Please delete OP -- this really borders on conspiracy theories at this point

and that's against DU rules. The only people pushing this story is Fox news & GOP operatives.

[still_one]

7. That is exactly who is pushing this bs

[leveymg]

22. Unfortunately, this isn't CT. Every word is true. Going into denial doesn't change the facts.

Read this again, and come back and comment on the substance of what's being said. Calling it Fox BS doesn't make it go away.

[ProSense]

28. It's bullshit. In fact

"I think the only way the Obama Administration is going to get out of this mess is with brutal candor...Either way, a lack of candor may well sink Obama..."

...it appears to be a bullshit fantasy.

[WinkyDink]

35. READ THIS AGAIN, OKAY? It's CONDESCENDING BS.

[obamanut2012]

78. Agreed

[still_one]

5. The President has NOT tried to cover up anything. The rightwing talking point has been exactly that

along with how he had an hour to send drones in to save the people. It is all bullshit

The President has been forthright on the whole situation.

They have not hidden any information, in fact they gave sensitive information to republicans in congress who promptly exposed and put at risk people working for us in Libya

[leveymg]

29. Unfortunately, many details about risks taken in Libya and Syria regime change have been covered up

or the facts withheld for a long time.

Like the 15,000 MANPADs that are now floating around in the hands of Jihadis and the Ambassador's meeting with Turk just before the Mission was stormed.

[ProSense]

6. Maybe you missed this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101768318

[leveymg]

32. I hate that guy just as much as you do. Now, go back and respond to the substance of the OP

[WinkyDink]

38. Knock off the "Lift that barge, tote that bale" imperative crap.

[mick063]

8. Shove that Hannity Shit where the sun don't shine.

This was a CIA operation that went awry. Operative soldiers died in battle.

Tragic event. So was 9/11.

[tarheel_voter]

13. Jake Tapper is covering this

This story may hit the fan next week. I don't think we know the whole story yet.

[ProSense]

14. Bullshit! n/t

[tarheel_voter]

18. Posting tweets from Jake Tapper

I'll collect/post the tweets from Jake Tapper so that you'll see what he's reporting

[tarheel_voter]

19. Jake Tapper tweets

Jake Tapper ?@jaketapper
President Obama Begs Off Answering Whether Americans in Benghazi Were Denied Requests for Help > http://abcn.ws/S246Sl

Jake Tapper ?@jaketapper
CIA spox: "No one at any level in the CIA told anybody not to help those in need; claims to the contrary are simply inaccurate. ”

Jake Tapper ?@jaketapper
President Obama Says He Had Not Been Aware of Prior Security Requests from Diplomats in Libya > http://abcn.ws/Xvq4la

Jake Tapper ?@jaketapper
i've been covering Benghazi from beginning, tho of course i also do campaign coverage. Accusing me of not covering is ill-informed.

[ProSense]

23. Who gives a shit about Jake Tapper tweets?

These RW shills are trying to help Romney.

The Libya issue is bullshit and not on the radar of any voters.

In case you haven't noticed. The President is leading in Ohio, and gaining ground.

[justiceischeap]

33. CIA spox: "No one at any level in the CIA told anybody not to help those in need;...

claims to the contrary are simply inaccurate. ”

Next...

[Lone_Star_Dem]

74. That snippet of what was said is being spun like a tilt-a-whirl.

The right is saying it equates to Petraeus tossing Obama under the bus. Their logic is, if the CIA didn't make the decision, then who did? Since they're insisting the CIA was told to hold off backup. The SOS doesn't have the authority so it must have been the president.

The problem with that is it's only a snippet of the statement. I'll post it in it's entirety below as it was originally reported on FOX news.

"We can say with confidence that the Agency reacted quickly to aid our colleagues during that terrible evening in Benghazi," [Youngblood] said. "Moreover, no one at any level in the CIA told anybody not to help those in need; claims to the contrary are simply inaccurate. In fact, it is important to remember how many lives were saved by courageous Americans who put their own safety at risk that night-and that some of those selfless Americans gave their lives in the effort to rescue their comrades." [FoxNews.com, 10/26/12]

Media Matters covered all this yesterday and pointed out the many flaws in the FOX news report.

I've no idea what this Jake Tapper guy is up to, but it looks as if he's cherry picking the statement as well.

Edit to add link to Media Matters.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2012/10/26/lou-dobbs-forgets-to-report-cias-denial-that-it/190974

[Spazito]

36. LOL, yeah, Tapper is so neutral as to any bias against the President and Democrats...NOT...

Here is an example of his prodigious questioning skills:

JT: Robert, two questions — one’s a housekeeping one. In the name of the transparency that you and the President herald so much, is there any way we could get the copies of the waivers that the OMB issues to allow certain Cabinet posts or deputy posts to be free of the ethics constraints you put up? And also the disclosure forms that your nominees put out that go to office of government ethics that somehow they are not able to email or put on the web, is there any way we can get copies of those?

RG: I will check. I don't know how those forms are distributed.

JT: Based on listening to the president’s rhetoric, I’m sure this is something he would want to do.

RG: Well, knowing of your crystal clarity on his opinion, I’ll certainly check.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/michaelcalderone/0209/Gibbs_to_Tapper_Did_you_have_more_pertinent_question.html

Note the contemptuous language used by Tapper, it is a hint as to how seriously one should take him on any issue, imo.

[leveymg]

61. These facts have been around for weeks. The story is as it was laid out above.

Everyone recognizes it's like nitro glycerine, and could blow up on the first who tries to touch it - look at what just happened here!

[muriel_volestrangler]

105. So why are you advising Democrats to touch it? (nt)

[leveymg]

148. Because the other side is spinning it like crazy, and that is having an impact.

[leveymg]

34. It's not just Hannity, anymore. This is a major story a lot of us are ignoring at our own peril

[OldDem2012]

9. Sorry, I'm not seeing any evidence of any blow-back on Benghazi...I call bs. nt.

[leveymg]

37. It's just popping up in the US major media. Much of this has been covered abroad for weeks.

The story about the delivery of Libyan MANPADs to Turkey appeared on 9/14 in The Times of London.

[justiceischeap]

55. The Times of London currently owned by Rupert Murdoch -- next? nt

[leveymg]

63. There are many, many sources that say Lybian MANPADs are now in Syria. That was the first.

Don't ignore confirmed facts because you don't like the first report.

[OldDem2012]

131. Keep reporting crap because you don't like the response you're getting. nt.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

10. You mammothly overestimate the mental capacity of the electorate

if you think (or hope) that they will understand any of this
or care, especially in the middle of the election. Can you
imagine Romney (who has left this whole issue in the dust)
trying to articulate this at a rally of ranting idiots? Not sure
of your motivation, but this ain't going nowhere in the next 10 days.

[leveymg]

40. I was saying the same thing re the inability of GOP to exploit it. But, it's finally popped up.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

51. It's popped up in the hope-pod of your oblongota.

[daligirl519]

12. Pathetic and right on cue.

Desperation is a bitch, ain't it?

[leveymg]

42. I've been here long enough so people know where I'm coming from. You haven't.

This OP is a warning, not an attack.

[MjolnirTime]

16. Why are you spreading bullshit?? Oh, I forgot, you don't like Obama

So you do Romney's dirty work for him.

Do you feel good about that?

[leveymg]

46. I knocked 4000 doors in '08 for Obama and am doing DEM GOTV & Election Protection work this time.

Don't tell me who I like or dislike. This is not an attack on Obama, and certainly not meant to help Romney. Don't execute the messenger.

[justiceischeap]

57. The messenger is spreading bullshit from Murdoch owned papers

and talking heads. If you were really that "concerned" you'd find better sources but wait, that's because there aren't better sources because the story is BS.

[leveymg]

59. Unfortunately, the facts have been confirmed elsewhere, as in the State Dept transcript. Read it.

You have to reveiw all sources to draw your own conclusions.

[Spazito]

20. Geez, this shit is only found on rabid right wing sites...

why would you bring it here? I think this is better suited to Creative Speculation than anything else.

[leveymg]

47. It's gone mainstream on ABC. Not just Fox anymore. Be aware of what's coming.

[Spazito]

58. LOL, ABC aka Jake Tapper, more nonsense...

ABC has been hyping the anti-Obama movie as well, no surprise there either.

[leveymg]

64. Which part of this you don't believe?

I'll find other sources. Be specific, please.

[Spazito]

70. At this point, none of it...

it is a right wing conspiracy theory being touted by the right wing in a forlorn hope to affect the election and rehabilitate their pathetic candidate, desperation has set in and this is a last gasp attempt that will fail just as Romney failed in the most humiliating way during the debate.

[jsmirman]

83. No one watches ABC - wake the hell up

[magical thyme]

21. Thank you for your concern.

I am surprised at the post count. I was sure you would be a troll.

Perhaps you haven't noticed the polls and momentum trending back to Prez Obama. Or that the GOP, Mittens and the media have gone silent on Benghazi.

The GOP has already managed to out yet another CIA operation. Perhaps there is a reason nobody is going back to Benghazi.

I doubt it is a good idea for the President to go there at this time. I don't think terrah, terrah, terrah lurks in the back of many people's minds any more. Attacks on foreign soil, especially in the ME, have gone on for decades. There hasn't been a successful terrah attack on US soil in quite a few years now. Most people are worried about jobs and, this week, Sandy.

edited to add that Jake Tapper's tweets can have two interpretations. One is, there's no "there, there."

And that next week will be too late. A large number of people will be digging out from Sandy, another large watching it on the front page.

[reflection]

24. Benghazi

Isn't even a blip on the radar of this election. Sorry.

[leveymg]

48. If only you were right. I would love to be wrong, but I don't think so on this.

[WinkyDink]

25. Fodder only for the already-Romney-voter.

[Motown_Johnny]

26. Rmoney's disaster in the 3rd debate settled that question

People who are worried about this trust him less than our current Commander In Chief.

[tarheel_voter]

50. The Right Wing is saying The White House denied air support

Wouldn't this be easy to disprove? Axelrod should get on top of this.

[Octafish]

27. Thank you for a most important post.

From the moment the news hit, something was not right. For instance: "How the heck the bad guys knew where to find the good guys and, How'd they know what to expect in terms of going in?"

PS: Interesting responses on this thread, too. It's like people never heard of GLADIO or Reinhard Gehlen or the Strategy of Tension.

[WinkyDink]

39. Oh, aren't YOU the Clever Jack!

[Octafish]

143. If by 'clever' you mean 'aware,' then, yes and you should be, too.

...as I know you know, WinkyDink. People capable of negotiating with the enemy during wartime are capable of anything.

http://consortiumnews.com/2012/06/14/admissions-on-nixons-treason/

There exists a straight line between that time and today running through Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush and Dim Son. They have lied America into war. They have allowed the taxpayer to pick up the tab for their cronies' lootings of the Treasury and banks. Other than that, they've corrupted the soul of the nation making war for profit.

[leveymg]

49. Denial is a typically fatal response to misunderstood dangers.

Thank G-d you see this clearly. This place sure has changed since '04

[Octafish]

144. That's why we're still here...

... Otherwise, the darkness will win. The stakes are major. Going by the history, we're on the glide path to the day when we won't be able to get anything other than the official story.

http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2010/10/main-obama-adviser-blocking-prosecution.html?m=1

As Orwell saw, it was a boot.

[Blue Idaho]

31. Mitt Rmoney wants to thank you for your support. nt.

[leveymg]

53. I think he'd rather we continue to keep our heads in the sand for another couple weeks. Meanwhile,

this story - suitably slanted -- is all over the RW media.

[Blue Idaho]

81. I think the President would rather we spend more time

knocking on doors, making phone calls, and driving people to the polls than wringing our hands on DU.

I know where I stand - how about you?

Get Out The Vote.

[TwilightGardener]

43. Thanks for making more hay out of a trumped up

nothingburger that nobody but the right wing and YOU are obsessed with. Obama's not going to use "brutal candor" in discussing whatever missions were or are going on with the CIA, because that would be stupid and dangerous to personnel. And he's dealt with the ambassor's death in the best way he could--really, it's the GOP's role (with the whole Islam film thing) that needs to be examined, since they have tried desperately to use this attack against Obama.

[leveymg]

54. If the RW is obsessed with it, that should tell you to take a closer look at it. Know thine enemy

[Spazito]

60. Bwaaa Haaaa! Yeah, and everyone should have given the rightwing birther crap....

a closer look because "If the RW is obsessed with it, that should tell you to take a closer look at it."

[leveymg]

68. You should always satisfy yourself that the story is, in fact, crap. This isn't - wish it was

Tell me what you need confirmation from other sourcing. I'll try to get it for you.

[Spazito]

72. Actually, maybe you should have tried to find "other sourcing" BEFORE posting this...

right wing claptrap, it would have served you much better. To cite the "Times of London", as you did in another post in this thread, the "Times of London" paper owned by Murdoch, also doesn't serve you well in trying to sell this as an 'OMG, this is an election changing catastrophe', imo.

[leveymg]

98. Here's a recent WSJ report

Last edited Fri Nov 2, 2012, 12:20 PM - Edit history (1)

Ya, I know Murdoch has his claws into this one, as well, but I don't think they just make shit up. Not on the news pages, anyway. The Journal's editorial page is something else

WSJ: Syria ‘Awash With Advanced Antiaircraft Weapons’
By Patrick Brennan
October 18, 2012 11:22 A.M.

“Northern Syria is awash with advanced antitank and antiaircraft weapons. The situation has changed very quickly,” a Syrian involved in coordinating weapons procurement with regional states said. The Manpad transfers weren’t sanctioned by the regional states that have armed and financed Syria’s rebels since early this year, he added. On Wednesday, fighters said they downed a military helicopter in the town of Maarat al-Nouman, in the northern Idlib province, one of at least four helicopters and jets they say they have brought down across Syria this week.

< . . .>

Most of the shoulder-fired missiles in rebel arsenals have come from Libya, smuggled into the country through the Turkish border without the official blessing of regional states or their Western backers, several rebel coordinators said.

< . . .>
Lebanon’s government has said it cracked down on smuggling through its borders, which rebels concede have been sealed to weapons transfers for months, making the recent deliveries a rarity. Turkey has repeatedly denied any involvement in supplying or facilitating weapons transfers to rebels in Syria.

Though rebels say the systems had started arriving in the summer, it remains unclear exactly how many have reached Syria. U.S. officials say probably no more than a handful have slipped through over the past few months. U.S. officials say they are most worried about Russian-designed Manpads provided to Libya making their way to Syria. The U.S. intensified efforts to track and collect man-portable missiles after the 2011 fall of the country’s longtime strongman leader, Moammar Gadhaf

[Spazito]

99. Two things, first, yes, if it's a Murdoch production, it's garbage and, second...

your post is a copyright infraction, I suggest you reduce it to the maximum 4 paragraphs.

"DMCA Copyright Policy
Do not copy-and-paste entire articles onto this discussion forum. When referencing copyrighted work, post a short excerpt with a link back to the original.

To simplify compliance and enforcement of copyrights here on Democratic Underground, we ask that excerpts from other sources posted on Democratic Underground be limited to a maximum of four paragraphs, and we ask that the source of the content be clearly identified. Those who make a good-faith effort to respect the rights of copyright holders are unlikely to have any problems. But individuals who willfully and habitually infringe on others' copyrights risk being in violation of our Terms of Service"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=copyright

[Dalai_1]

79. President Obama's Interview with Joe Scarborough and Mika

will be aired on Monday...the rwnj's are clamoring that other media is
not covering this..it will be interesting if joey does their bidding..

[TwilightGardener]

66. They're also obsessed with defending rape, Obama's birth certificate,

uteruses, drilling for oil and war with Iran. I will wait and see what is further revealed about the situation, but I think you're dead wrong in your assertions that average people are suddenly highly interested in the underpinnings/backstory of the attack, let alone the attack itself. It sounds like you WANT it to be an issue, but it's not an election issue, despite the GOP joyfully circulating photos of dead ambassador bodies. We are used to American deaths in the middle east, sadly. It's a dangerous part of the world to be stationed in and doing business.

[RomneyLies]

56. Why anybody would pimp this bullshit here is beyond me

This crap can't even get traction in the right wing side of the internet, so why bring the crap CT here?

[emulatorloo]

91. Pretty astounding, isn't it.

And I thought DU'ers couldn't shock me anymore.

[smackd]

62. WAY too complicated to 'infiltrate' average voter attention span...

...with the exception of those already looking for something. this will not permeate the electorate, particularly not in the next 10 days.

[WinkyDink]

67. Are you saying it should so "permeate"? WHY should it, HMMMMM??

[smackd]

71. oh, no...I don't think this has legs...

I meant for those trying to make it fly, not gonna work.

not enough time and not enough interest.

[leveymg]

69. I hope you are right. But, not really that complicated.

[morningfog]

107. Those looking for something are not undecided.

[mfcorey1]

65. El toro poo poo!!!!!

[El Toro Poo]

150. El Toro Poo - SONG!!

Last edited Thu Feb 7, 2013, 10:23 AM - Edit history (5)

WATCH this..

Just GOOGLE "EL TORO POO" to watch the video.

©Lyrics - David William Bethune SOCAN/BMI ©Music/Vocals - Greg Pando BMI....
Humorus song about the Global Frustration we all have with Politicians doing NOTHING for the people!
Ear Candy for Politicians.Same ole same ole.
.......................................................
PLEASE SHARE THIS LINK FOR US
.......................................................
Recorded in Pando Production Studios FLORIDA!

"El Toro POO"

We the people
Got a message for you
We've had our fill
Of El Toro Poo
You've fallen from grace
We've lost our faith
In all you say or do

Brain dead politicians
With only one mission
We believe nothing you say
Your lobbyist puppets
Putting gold in your buckets
And it's dam time you pay

Chorus:
All we needs a revolution or two
To fix the things that politicians do
They're not thinkin bout me and you
They're all full of El Toro Poo

We have the solution
For the poo that your shootin
Listen up we're talkin to you
United WE Stand
All across the Land
No more we're through

We have the answer
For political cancer
We all know what we have to do
To put an end to our troubles
We'll give you all shovels
To clean up all of your poo

Chorus:
All we needs a revolution or two
To fix the things that politicians do
They're not thinkin bout me and you
They're all full of El Toro Poo

All you crook politicians
We'll teach you to listen
Depends are the cure for you
Ya it's time for a change
Time to diaper your brains
They're full of El Toro Poo

Chorus: X2
All we needs a revolution or two
To fix the things that politicians do
They're not thinkin bout me and you
They're all full of El Toro Poo

Chorus:
All we needs a revolution or two
To fix the things that politicians do
They're not thinkin bout me and you
They're all full of El Toro Poo
So Adios to you
And your El Toro Poo

[doc03]

73. I don't think anyone gives a flying f--- about

that bs except people that are addicted to Faux and they won't vote for Obama anyway.

[spanone]

75. ain't happenin'

[bigtree]

77. bullshit

no one but romney diehards push Benghazi around as a campaign issue. It's ghoulish and demagogic.

[obamanut2012]

80. Even Condi Rice disagrees with your OP

She has publicly supported Obama and SoS Clinton on this.

[emulatorloo]

92. +1. But don't confuse him w the facts.

Gets in the way of his well-poisoning efforts.

[obamanut2012]

93. .....

[leveymg]

95. Condi has said nothing about Libyan MANPADs in Syria. But, the WSJ reported that most are from Lib.

The Wall Street Journal reported this about a week ago:

http://professional.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443684104578062842929673074.html?mg=reno64-wsj

WSJ: Syria ‘Awash With Advanced Antiaircraft Weapons’
By Patrick Brennan
October 18, 2012 11:22 A.M.

“Northern Syria is awash with advanced antitank and antiaircraft weapons. The situation has changed very quickly,” a Syrian involved in coordinating weapons procurement with regional states said. The Manpad transfers weren’t sanctioned by the regional states that have armed and financed Syria’s rebels since early this year, he added. On Wednesday, fighters said they downed a military helicopter in the town of Maarat al-Nouman, in the northern Idlib province, one of at least four helicopters and jets they say they have brought down across Syria this week.

Furthermore,

U.S. officials oppose the introduction of such weapons in Syria, citing long-standing fears that they could wind up in the hands of anti-Western militias that could eventually use them against the U.S. and its allies, or sell them to terrorists. “Obviously, we are concerned about the proliferation of Manpads,” said a U.S. official.

The rebels in Aleppo who are depicted in the footage uploaded to the Internet this week are identified as members of the al-Salam and Hamza battalions, two of the relatively unknown divisions in a mushrooming insurgency. Rebels with the two largest fighting factions in Aleppo couldn’t identify the battalions in the videos, though they confirmed that Manpads acquired over the past two weeks had made their way into the city.

Given the growing evidence that the most effective fighting forces in Syria are jihadist groups with which the trying-to-look-moderate rebel leadership doesn’t want to associate, “the relatively unknown divisions” mentioned above as being equipped with these missiles might well be extremist, jihadist, and possibly foreign groups. The groups that rebel leadership in Aleppo “can’t identify” might be groups they don’t want to identify, lest the explanation confirm the worst fears of their Western and Gulf supporters. It would be no surprise if al-Qaeda-linked groups like the al Nusra Front been more active in trying to acquire MANPADs by any means possible; they are more likely to know how to handle the weapons, and they’re free from any consequences of acquiring and using the missiles since the state allies of the rebels who are unhappy with this proliferation already are trying not to aid the jihadist groups.

Even knowing the usefulness to the cause the states aiding the rebels do claim to be making efforts to keep these weapons out of any rebel group’s hands, but it’s been less than a brick wall:

For rebels locked in a three-month battle with regime forces in Aleppo, airstrikes have been the major setback. Syria’s regime forces had relatively free passage in the skies until this summer, and helicopter gunship attacks on rebel positions continue to be common. Antiaircraft weapons have the potential to give the rebels a decisive boost against regime air power, just as they did for fighters in Afghanistan who defeated the Soviet Union’s occupying army there in the 1980s. It could force the Syrian air force to work from higher altitudes, with implications for collateral casualties.

“Bashar al-Assad has gone further in violence by using MiG jets and now drops barrels filled with TNT,” French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said Wednesday ahead of a meeting with Syrian opposition representatives in Paris. “The strikes are less accurate, since there are now weapons forcing them to fly higher.”

Most of the shoulder-fired missiles in rebel arsenals have come from Libya, smuggled into the country through the Turkish border without the official blessing of regional states or their Western backers, several rebel coordinators said.

Other shoulder-fired, surface-to-air missiles, which these rebels identified as Russian-made Strela systems, have been supplied by militant Palestinian factions now supporting the Syrian uprising and smuggled in through the Lebanese border, they said. Syrian military defectors also say they have been able to buy some SA-7?s—a Russian-designed Manpad—from regime forces since the summer.

Lebanon’s government has said it cracked down on smuggling through its borders, which rebels concede have been sealed to weapons transfers for months, making the recent deliveries a rarity. Turkey has repeatedly denied any involvement in supplying or facilitating weapons transfers to rebels in Syria.

Though rebels say the systems had started arriving in the summer, it remains unclear exactly how many have reached Syria. U.S. officials say probably no more than a handful have slipped through over the past few months. U.S. officials say they are most worried about Russian-designed Manpads provided to Libya making their way to Syria. The U.S. intensified efforts to track and collect man-portable missiles after the 2011 fall of the country’s longtime strongman leader, Moammar Gadhafi.

[obamanut2012]

97. Even Condi Rice disagrees with your OP

And with Mitt's spin on this.

[GeorgeGist]

84. Interesting opinions ...

And speculation.

Facts? Not much to go on.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

85. Thanks for the thought provoking post. A little good news, if it helps. I heard a 10 min

rant from my right-wing friend about all this - and I assume it came from Fox or somewhere like that.

The reason why Romney did not smack Obama down in the last debate over Libya is because he has been
getting briefings and the CIA told him to shut the fuck up. He said they knew immediately what happened
and could have retaliated but knew they would kill too many people doing it - so let it slide.

[reformist2]

86. I think Bengazi fizzled/backfired on Romney - that's why he doesn't bring it up anymore.

It fires up the Repug base, but most voters saw the instantaneous attacks on Obama - instead of the terrorists - as inappropriate and unfair.

[AtomicKitten]

87. This reeks of political opportunism no matter who's peddling it.

[justiceischeap]

88. Okay, I went and read the state dept. transcript

I don't see a smoking gun. All your sources are either Murdoch owned entities (with the exception of Tapper & ABC and both can be argued to have an agenda) or are conservative hacks that have their own agenda. Like Clare Lopez, an Anti-Islam conservative activist hack, who like the Bush admin, would say anything to further her agenda (she wants a war with Iran in the worst way).

Your call for brutal candor is ridiculous. What don't you "Benghazi truther's" get about national security? Yes, please, let's tell all our secrets to the world so they can harm us. It doesn't take much to see that if the CIA is involved, there are things going on we shouldn't be talking about in the name of national security? Or do you distrust the Obama administration so much that you think they are doing the same sorts of things the Bush admin did? Because that's what this basically comes down to. President Obama isn't "one of us", he's a Muslim, he is covering up the truth about Benghazi because he's secretly selling arms to Al Qaeda (you are aware that these sources you're quoting are floating that story too, right?).

I will wait for the actual investigation to take place and for the results of that to be released before I start making assumptions based on ginned up coverage right before the election, thanks very much. I mean, the same folks that are pushing this story were and are convinced thatEric Holder was doing something nefarious with Fast & Furious. Now that the investigation has been completed and Holder has been cleared of wrong-doing, these same "truther's" are calling cover-up of that as well. It's all racially motivated and it shouldn't be here on DU.

[leveymg]

100. Look. I'm reporting facts, not making it up. Pew Poll showed 11 point loss due to MENA and attack

http://thehill.com/blogs/global-affairs/terrorism/262867-poll-independent-voters-fault-obamas-handling-of-libya-attack

The Hill: Mitt Romney has all but erased President Obama’s lead on foreign policy issues in the aftermath of the attack on the U.S. Consulate in Libya, according to a Pew poll released Thursday.

Obama’s lead on foreign policy has plummeted by 11 points since the outbreak of violence in the Middle East that culminated with the death of four Americans in Libya on Sept. 11, according to Pew.

The president holds a slim 47 percent to 43 percent edge over his GOP rival on the issue of who would do a better job on foreign policy, down from a 15-point advantage in September.

The poll of 1,511 adults was conducted two weeks ago, and found that many Americans have soured on the situation in the Middle East: only 25 percent see a positive future for the region, down from 42 percent in April.

The change in mood is likely a result of the attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi that killed Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three other Americans last month.

A separate Pew poll taken last week, also released Thursday, found that a large chunk of independent voters disapprove of Obama’s handling of the Libya situation, possibly helping Romney with a bloc of voters that could decide the election.

[emulatorloo]

89. This is fucking bullshit Republican spin and wishful thinking.

"A lack of candor" from Obama? Fuck that talking point.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

90. voters aren't interested in this

[Odin2005]

94. What a bunch of Puke BS.

Thanks for outing yourself, though. I should have known based on your "OBAMA BAD OBAMA BAD" shit.

[Ikonoklast]

96. WND agrees with you.

Great Job!








Strange company the nutter left keeps.

[ryan_cats]

101. You should know better...

You should know better than to attempt sincerity on DU.

I'm still waiting 24 business hours for Rove.

Funny, the same people who were convinced that the ambulance chaser Allred or that still of the Rmoney rally people swear was Photoshopped to make an already large crowd look larger was going to ring the death knell for Rmoney are here with their hands over their ears going lalalalalala.

I prefer to assume that Rmoney is going to win so we have to work harder to secure a second term for President Obama.

I'm afraid too many people think it's in the bag so they stay home on November 6th. Not only is the Presidency on the ballot, but we also have down ticket state offices and measures that need to be voted for or against and these are incredibly important offices unless people want a stealth R representing their district or state.

Funny how you post the truth and posters are saying how you 'outed' yourself.

I wish next to everyone's name it had the poster's age so we can ignore people that are sixteen and hyperventilating anytime something is the slightest bit negative for President Obama.

[leveymg]

103. "Gracious madam, I that do bring the news made not the match."

I knew it's a population that's been under enemy bombardment for too long. But, this needed to be said, and maybe some will benefit a bit from the information.

I can only hope, as I slink off to bind my 100 lashes.

[ProSense]

109. What nonsense.

<...>

I prefer to assume that Rmoney is going to win so we have to work harder to secure a second term for President Obama.

I'm afraid too many people think it's in the bag so they stay home on November 6th. Not only is the Presidency on the ballot, but we also have down ticket state offices and measures that need to be voted for or against and these are incredibly important offices unless people want a stealth R representing their district or state.

Funny how you post the truth and posters are saying how you 'outed' yourself.

I wish next to everyone's name it had the poster's age so we can ignore people that are sixteen and hyperventilating anytime something is the slightest bit negative for President Obama.

The choice isn't to accept RW bullshit spin or pretend this is in the bag.

Everyone with any sense knows the importance of GOTV efforts, and also knows that the RW attempt to spin Libya is nonsense.

New Obama Ad ‘537’ Warns Of Bush 2000 Repeat
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021622891

[ryan_cats]

139. What nonsense, Look in the mirror

Everyone with any sense knows the importance of GOTV efforts, and also knows that the RW attempt to spin Libya is nonsense.

Yeah right, they are doing it and becoming more successful everyday.

[muriel_volestrangler]

113. You're afraid people will stay home, so you favour spreading neocon propaganda?

That's what this is - Clare Lopez works for radicalislam.org (that's where she posted the article that leveymg admires so much), which is run by the Clarion Fund - with

advisory board including:

Frank J. Gaffney, Jr., Former Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Policy, and President of the Center for Security Policy
Dr. Zuhdi Jasser, President and Founder of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy
Daniel Pipes, Director of the Middle East Forum and founder of Campus Watch
Dr. Harold Rhode, Former Foreign Affairs Specialist at the Pentagon’s Office of Net Assessment and Senior Advisor at the Hudson Institute

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarion_Fund

Looks who's running with this:

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Clare+Lopez%22+%22turkish%22+%22benghazi%22

Glenn Beck, Newsmax, 'counterjihad', Free Republic. leveymg wants us to join them in spreading unfounded rumours that Obama was arranging to smuggle arms into Syria. Well, if we start doing that, I can see it would make DUers think again about the election being 'in the bag'. It would be like an athlete deciding to stab himself in the leg in the end straight, because it's all seemed a bit to easy, since he's in a narrow lead ...

[leveymg]

122. First we organized the Libyan Jihadis, then they traveled to Syria, now we are deterring them?

Okay, I can accept that possibility. But, it's not apparent on the face of things why we did a 180 on that issue, other than it came out that there was a massive MANPAD shipment that arrived in Turkey five days before the Ambassador came back in Benghazi. Someone killed him, and I want to know what he was doing there, who he met, and what was said. That's not asking too much, considering what happened to him.

I'm merely asking that we be given enough information to determine which possibility fits the facts. That's not evidence of carrying water for neocons, and you know me better than that.

[muriel_volestrangler]

123. Why are you pushing Clare Lopez's story, then?

She is a neocon. She works for a neocon outfit. She has no evidence for her claims. You are repeating them, and asking DUers to do that too. You're accusing the State Dept of a cover-up, a few days before the election.

No, I'm afraid what you are doing now is so outrageous that I can't say "oh, it's a long-standing DUer, it must be right". Don't try to hide behind the "I'm only asking questions" bullshit.

[leveymg]

126. She is a convenient hook for a story. I don't endorse her conclusion, but agree that we haven't

really been told the complete and true facts what the Ambassador was doing in Benghazi, who he met, and what was said during those meetings. The fact that we are just a few days from the elections, and broad suspicions and unhappiness with events in MENA has demonstrably already eroded support for Obama (11% according to one major poll cited in the Postscript of the OP) tells me that the WH had better do something differently on the subject. Like immediately.

Other than Benghazi, and the worsening violence in regime change countries, there is no other structural reason for the erosion of support we've seen in the last month and a half. This is an 800 pound gorilla that nobody wants to get close enough to diagnose as the immediate cause of widespread unease among the electorate.

I'm not just asking questions, I'm calling for change in the Administration's regional regime change policy. I know that identification of it as a threat to Obama's reelection is not fully appreciated by many - understatement of the year -- and, it's unlikely that this will change anything, but it's something that I feel strongly has to be said, anyway.

[muriel_volestrangler]

129. Your 'solution' is to say "we've been covering things up"?

There's no talk about that, apart from on the lunatic right, you have no evidence that there has been a cover-up, but you want the Democrats to say it anyway? Your psychic feeling that this mythical cover-up is "the immediate cause of widespread unease among the electorate" should be enough for Obama to commit electoral suicide? "Other than Benghazi, and the worsening violence in regime change countries"? What, you mean the actual stuff that's been in the news, rather than Lopez's fantasy? The poll was taken before Lopez launched the ratfucking operation you are eager to embrace.

And your reason for this is that you feel hurt that the government hasn't given you the entire minutes of every meeting they have with other countries' diplomats? Fuck, you make Julian Assange look like a supporter of the State Dept.

[leveymg]

130. If it were just Lopez, it would be easy to ignore and not worth commenting on.

I'm saying the regime change policy is the source of unease, and the assault in Benghazi the focus. The policy has blown back, it is a disaster on many levels that is undermining the President's support. It has significantly impacted presidential politics - that needs to be more widely recognized. Lopez is almost beside the point.

I think Obama will survive this, but it has already hurt him worse than anyone wants to admit.

[muriel_volestrangler]

137. Oh, yes, I mean, Glenn Beck is saying it too, not to mention Newsmax

Why the fuck you are now parroting what they're saying, I can't tell. You're on board with "Obama has screwed everything up, and the public unconsciously realise how bad he is".

[treestar]

102. Yes the voters can be dumb

But it insults them to say they can be swayed solely by the happenings of the last few weeks before the elections, things which could happen under any President. Further how can it impact his "lead?" That happened when Gallup switched to likely voters and Rmoney allegedly did such a bang-up job at the debate.

[leveymg]

106. I'm not saying this crowd can be swayed by events, but that the American people have already been.

The point is that there is a real danger of the damage getting worse if the Administration doesn't show every sign of candor. To do that the WH must unburden itself of all the secrecy -- declassify some documents about the Ambassador's doings in Benghazi -- and lay off the evasion that has been used to protect the policy up until now.

[ProSense]

108. This is RW bullshit

"The point is that there is a real danger of the damage getting worse if the Administration doesn't show every sign of candor. To do that the WH must unburden itself of all the secrecy -- declassify some documents about the Ambassador's doings in Benghazi -- and lay off the evasion that has been used to protect the policy up until now."

What the hell are you talking about? You're putting forward RW bullshit, a red herring, and claiming to do so to justify your theory that this "may well sink Obama."

[leveymg]

119. Then why did it take a month to reveal who the Ambassador met that night, and why has the Under

secretary for State for Intelligence Andrew Shapiro corrected his statement made at the end of July that there are no Lybian manpads in Syria? See, http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/dotmil/2012/07/27/us-official-no-evidence-of-manpads-leakage-in-syria

But U.S. officials also are worried items like MANPADS could "fall into the wrong hands," Assistant Secretary of State Andrew Shapiro told reporters at a Friday breakfast meeting in Washington.

"We haven't seen any evidence of MANPADS leakage in Syria," Shapiro says. "But it's clearly an area of concern and one we're thinking about."

On Libya, American officials have been trying to determine for months where former strongman Moammar Gadhafi's MANPADS currently are; some officials have estimated Gadhafi might have had up to 20,000 of the portable launchers. Shaprio said in early February that U.S. intelligence showed most of those mobile launchers are still in Libya.

I can assure you, the RW is not talking about this. Very few officials or people in the MSM have, because they know it's like nitro-glycerine and will likely blow up the the first ones who try to handle it. It goes #1 right to a covert policy that many in high places support, that is #2, still classified, and #3, it's just plain scary to contemplate the consequences when this one goes bad. There are career at stake, and this story is a career killer for any professional journalist, at least it has been up until the last few days. Too bad it has to be the Schmucks at Fox and Murdoch who are the first to bring this out from under the rocks.

[ProSense]

121. Let me get this straight

"I can assure you, the RW is not talking about this."

...contrary to your claim in the OP to be concerned about the RW, you're now claiming to push a different point that "may well sink Obama"?

"Very few officials or people in the MSM have, because they know it's like nitro-glycerine and will likely blow up the the first ones who try to handle it."

What utter bullshit!

[leveymg]

124. Don't twist yourself into a pretzel trying to misrepresent my words and meaning.

I can assure you, the RW and the neocons would like nothing better than to see all the MANPADs in Libya shipped to Syria and that they all be used to entirely knock out the Syrian AF and the regime overthrown henceforth, beginning November 7, regardless of outcome. Their Saudi allies who are putting up the money for the Holy Crusade in Syria would like nothing better than the wholesale removal or liquidation of the Alawite sect, which they see as apostates.

I can assure you, I am trying to avoid that eventuality, and see the potential sinking of Obama as only hastening that genocidal outcome.

Let me ask you this, why do think we've heard so little up until very recently about the 15,000 MANPADs that are now loose and in the hands of Sunni militias in several countries? Following that story back to the regime change operation in Libya and forward to Syria and elsewhere is not a career path for anyone working in major media, which is why we haven't seen many try.

[ProSense]

125. Please

"I can assure you, I am trying to avoid that eventuality, and see the potential sinking of Obama as only hastening that genocidal outcome. "

...spare me the concern.

[leveymg]

127. Someone has to say it, even if you don't want to hear it.

Don't use the euphemism for the T word. It just doesn't apply.

[treestar]

115. Why should it do that?

Declassify documents - it would be said to gain election advantage. The same standards as always should be used.

Republicans just wish this could be their lucky issue, when they have nothing of substance to offer.

[leveymg]

120. I didn't say disclosure and candor wasn't without risk. Just that there are big risks on the other

hand that have to be considered. Such an unveiling could be refreshing and rewarding if done at the top.

[WinkyDink]

135. Sounds like a Dick Cheney Outs Valerie Plame Plan.

[UTUSN]

114. PETRAEUS won't save them

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021645526
Wingnuts pinning their Libya hopes on PETRAEUS but which PETRAEUS, the Romnesia one?!1
Wingnut outlets are aflood with hopes that PETRAEUS is “throwing OBAMA under the bus” and that he says “It wasn’t me” (who supposedly denied requests for help.

Well, that wasn’t what he was saying when he sent early briefings to Congress critters or when he testified, and a Rethug critter says there was no daylight between what he and what the Administration were saying at the time.

But the backdrop for all of their faux outrage is: TeaBagger congress critters blocked funds for State security since 2010. RAYGUN cut and ran when 299 marines & other personnel were bombed in Beirut; should he have FORESEEN it or responded in kind within an HOUR?!1 Besides that he negotiated with and armed terrorists. The Cuban 1st generation Exiles/CIA-ers hated JFK/Dems for their claims for military air support. VFW bars were frequent scenes of ground combat vets griping against Air Force vets for generically/anecdotally not providing air support upon IMMEDIATE demands.


*************QUOTE**********

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57535773/cia-saw-possible-terror-ties-day-after-libya-hit-ap/

CIA saw possible terror ties day after Libya hit: AP (my/UTUSN edit:: “But...”)

AP/ October 19, 2012, 5:18 AM

.... Such raw intelligence reports by the CIA on the ground would normally be sent first to analysts at the headquarters in Langley, Va., for vetting and comparing against other intelligence derived from eavesdropping drones and satellite images. Only then would such intelligence generally be shared with the White House and later, Congress, a process that can take hours, or days if the intelligence is coming only from one or two sources who may or may not be trusted.

U.S. intelligence officials say in this case, the delay was due in part to the time it took to analyze various conflicting accounts. One official, speaking on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to discuss the incident publicly, explained that it "was clear a group of people gathered that evening" in Benghazi, but that the early question was "whether extremists took over a crowd or they were the crowd." ....

"The early sense from the intelligence community differs from what we are hearing now," Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., said. "It ended up being pretty far afield, so we want to figure out why ... though we don't want to deter the intelligence community from sharing their best first impressions" after such events in the future.

"The intelligence briefings we got a week to 10 days after were consistent with what the administration was saying," said Rep. William Thornberry, R-Texas, a member of the House Intelligence and Armed Services committees. Thornberry would not confirm the existence of the early CIA report but voiced skepticism over how sure intelligence officials, including CIA Director David Petraeus, seemed of their original account when they briefed lawmakers on Capitol Hill. ....

Two officials who witnessed Petraeus' closed-door testimony to lawmakers in the week after the attack said that during questioning he acknowledged that there were some intelligence analysts who disagreed with the conclusion that an unruly mob angry over the video had initiated the violence. But those officials said Petraeus did not mention the CIA's early eyewitness reports. He did warn legislators that the account could change as more intelligence was uncovered, they said, speaking on condition of anonymity because the hearing was closed. ....

***********UNQUOTE*********

[pintobean]

128. If nothing else, this thread shows

that a lot of people here have no faith in the resolve of their fellow DUers. Your post won't change a single vote here. The freak-out is amazing.

[WinkyDink]

133. Nobody is "freak[ing] out." But it's good to see you think the OP is out to "change...vote[s]." Heh.

[pintobean]

136. No, I don't think the OP is out to change votes

I think others are afraid it will.

But, I think you knew that. Your post is interesting.

[ProSense]

138. "Either way, a lack of candor may well sink Obama"

What does the OP mean by that?

If the Obama doesn't acquiesce to RW bullshit, it may sink him?

Who the hell is claiming that the administration is covering up something besides the RW?

"I think others are afraid it will."

Yeah, just like people are "afraid" when the RW calls the President a Muslim, right?

Don't mistake calling out RW bullshit with fear.

[OldDem2012]

132. Sadly, I've come to the conclusion that you may be....

....posting on the wrong board.

Take a right when you hit the door.

[ryan_cats]

140. Who the hell are you to tell someone to hit the door?

Who the hell are you to tell someone to hit the door?

You've been here since 2012, he's been here since 2004.

[justiceischeap]

142. I'm not saying the OP is a troll

but there are long-time trolls on DU who brag elsewhere about being long-time trolls.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

134. "Blowback from Benghazi threatens Obama’s Lead" No it doesn't...

Last edited Sat Oct 27, 2012, 06:34 PM - Edit history (1)

...not in the least.

[Samantha]

141. Stop reading when you see these two words: Pew Poll

I previously posted on this subject and can't do that again now. Just check out the origin of the Pew Charitable Trusts. On its website, it specifically states one of its missions is to influence public opinion. Pay particular attention to who founded the Pew Charitable Trusts. You will then have no more questions.

Sam

[Jennicut]

146. The Pew poll is old now.

In this morning's Battleground poll, Obama has a lead on foreign policy issues.
This story is just not going to go anywhere because honestly, people are worried about other things.
Like a big storm coming.

[ladjf]

151. This article is bunk. nt

[leveymg]

152. Are you researching me, or something? What's bunk? I was proved wrong that this didn't become a

decisive issue (largely because it was dismissed by all the major networks, except Faux), but many people believed it would, for the right or wrong reasons.

But, even if my conclusion didn't pan out and translate into returns at the polls (this was meant as a warning, not an endorsement), where did I get my facts wrong? You need to specify that, ladjf.