Imagine you're a soldier invading Ukraine...and the Russians hand you this:

[Dial H For Hero]

Last edited Wed Mar 16, 2022, 10:21 AM - Edit history (1)

For those not in the know, that's a Mosin Nagant M91/30 bolt action rifle. It's 2022, and he's been issued a rifle designed in 1891. Dude, you need to desert.

But wait! There's more! Here's a closeup of the weapon's scope:



It was made in Plant NKV #357 (Progress) in Leningrad in 1941, the same year Nazi Germany invaded the USSR. Not to worry, it only spent five years on the Eastern Front. I'm sure it's still a tackdriver.

If I'm invading a country using Javelins and MLAWs and you hand me a bolt action rifle as old as my great-great-grandfather, I'm going to be looking for the hidden camera.

(edit)

Source:

https://niezalezna.pl/433729-mosiny-oraz-ptrs-y-pamietajace-czasy-ii-wojny-swiatowej-na-wyposazeniu-prorosyjskich-wojsk-w-donbasie

These are Donbass separatists, not Russian regulars. Sorry for not making that clear.

[msongs]

1. maybe they are more reliable than the new stuff nt

[WarGamer]

2. *Ukraine.

[lastlib]

6. (yes, pls don't call it "THE Ukraine"....)

That's the Russian moniker, and Ukrainians don't like it much.

[Dial H For Hero]

8. Aargh. Corrected. What can I say, I'm old.

Still younger than that rifle, though.

[WarGamer]

9. hehehehe...

[lastlib]

10. you're cool, bro!

[Igel]

13. It's just old fashioned.

Russian doesn't have a word for "the" so "Ukraine" and "the Ukraine" are both "Ukraina."

It's like Sindh or The Sindh, Sudan or The Sudan, Ghana or The Ghana.

At some point the "the" went from being unnecessary to being annoying to being offensive and un-utterable.

In the course of 20 years. (But for Ukraine, in the '90s it was conscious and intentional. There was a "the country isn't 'the Ukraine,' that's offensive' campaign. Don't know about the others.)

[L. Coyote]

33. Ukraine is the name of a sovereign nation, and the Ukraine is what Putin calls it

is my understanding. Removing the sovereignity is the problem with the latter.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

46. Also, the word "The" is the property of a newly renamed ...

THE Ohio State University.

Some don' like it called merely "Ohio State".

Oh, well,

Go Blue

[gab13by13]

3. Saw someone on Chris Hayes tonight

say that Putin didn't just steal money from the oil and gas industries, he stole it from the military. Billions of dollars that were supposed to go to weapons went to Putin and oligarchs.

[doc03]

4. Cabelas had a bunch of those a couple years ago for $100 each nt

[GP6971]

18. I also saw that

with Cabela's, but I already had my WWII bolt action rifle...a British Enfield No4 Mk1*

[TrollBuster9090]

32. Maybe they could use your Enfield to fix the old RPGs?

[doc03]

47. If Cabelas is selling something for $100 they probably weren't paying the

Russians $25 for their surplus junk. Cabelas wants ridiculous prices for used guns. I see things that are
not a decent doorstop for hundreds. I figure many of the used guns they get were brought in by widows
that have no idea what they are worth and get ripped off. Same thing with coin dealers they pay scrap prices
for gold and silver for coins worth many times more.

[Thomas Hurt]

5. The corrupt Russian Generals have looted and gutted their own military...

This keeps up and Putin won't have a military to protect his annexed regions or even Russia itself.

[wnylib]

34. So let's hope that their nuclear capability

is just as mythical as that of their ground troops, due to corruption.

[Hoyt]

7. Think China's tepid support of Russia is that they see a big market for upgraded weapons.

[brush]

21. So insane, right? Russia is the home manufacturer of the most ubiquitous and well-designed assault..

rifle in the world, the AK-47, and that's what they're issuing to troops? Where'd the money go? Putin and his cronies are not only skimming off the top, they're digging into the middle and scraping the bottom of the barrel.

And these fuckers expected to win quickly in a route.

Putin is no genius, but apparently he is a crook.

[TrollBuster9090]

37. If they don't mind getting paid in IOUs.

Now that Rubles are worth less than a penny.

[MagickMuffin]

52. Asking for China's help certainly shows China just how WEAK Putin's military is

Perhaps China might consider invading Russia?


One should always be extra careful asking other dominating military might to bail yours out.


Stable genius, indeed!

[Dan]

11. Well, you could only hope that you're a sniper....

[TheRealNorth]

12. My understanding is that they make very good sniper rifles

with the drawback being that it is bolt action and a 5 round chamber that needs to be reloaded by hand (ie. no external magazine/clip)

[BigmanPigman]

14. I guess they sing the song, "Everything old is new again".

on their maneuvers.

[WarGamer]

15. Lots of confirmed kills between these ladies in WW2, same rifle/scope

colorized pics

[Dial H For Hero]

19. And who know, perhaps the guy is skilled, the rifle has been well treated over the last 80 years,

and he's been issued quality ammo. If so, he could be effective, though not as much as with modern equipment.

I hope not, though.

[WarGamer]

20. Stil pretty weird to see it in 2022...

[Dial H For Hero]

22. Absolutely. For heaven's sake, it was replaced by the Dragunov in 1963!

[WarGamer]

23. I remember seeing those in the rusty relic section of the gun shop...

[Dial H For Hero]

24. A nice WW2 issues M91/30 with original scope is around $1K to $2K these days.

[WarGamer]

25. wow... I haven't stepped into a gun shop since 99-ish.

Had quite the collection but had a toddler and decided to clean the guns out of the house.

Some pieces that would be worth a fortune now.

Really nice H&K G3 (civ version) and an SP89...

I think just those 2 are probably worth 10k nowadays.

[Dial H For Hero]

26. HK91: $5K-ish. SP89: Up to $10K by itself.

[TheRealNorth]

58. I read somewhere that while the gun was reliably accurate, the Russian scopes during WW2 were not.

[panader0]

17. A friend of mine bought a Mosin Nagant a few years ago at a Big Five for $99.00.

Heavy and old, I wondered if it would work. Actually it worked OK, but the ammo was $1.00 per shell.

[Retrograde]

27. If it works...

under certain circumstances - like in-city fighting - people can be just as dead from a hundred+ year old weapon as a brand new one.

[Celerity]

28. The Ukrainians mod them up

https://en.ukrmilitary.com/2017/07/ukrainian-crook-chassis-for-mosin.html?m=1

Ukrainian company called “Crook” (Крук – means “raven”) makes an aluminum chassis for Mosin-Nagant rifles.

[NJCher]

42. 4th picture down

How did you find the case for my reciprocating saw?

I want it back.

P.s. how do you people know so much about guns?

[Celerity]

44. I am in risk analysis, I know where to look for a quick dive when a topic is raised.

I am not a gun fangirl at all, I do not have a deep knowledge other than my wife's biathlon rifles (I bought her one for her birthday a few years back, and it was a pain in the ass, lol, she is SO particular about them), and that only extends to models and manufacturers. I have no clue how to disassemble, clean, and maintain them. My father is the weapons master (he served in the Swedish armed forces). I can always fall back upon him for framing advice.

[Dial H For Hero]

53. I've been collecting military firearms (with a WW2 emphasis) for 40 years, hence my interest.

I'm hardly an expert, though...just a fairly well-informed amateur on the subject.

[BlueIdaho]

29. Don't knock it.

He had to take it off a dead Russian soldiers body. Before that he was following behind the first wave waiting for someone to be shot so he could get his rife.

[Gaugamela]

30. Link?

Looking at the background in the second photo it’s clearly not an enlargement of the first. And we don’t know what’s being shown in the first. So where did this come from?

[Dial H For Hero]

48. Just added to the OP, I neglected to put it in originally.

https://niezalezna.pl/433729-mosiny-oraz-ptrs-y-pamietajace-czasy-ii-wojny-swiatowej-na-wyposazeniu-prorosyjskich-wojsk-w-donbasie

[AverageOldGuy]

31. A few other points . . .

Where is everyone else's weapon? The two guys in the center have what looks like rifle slings over their shoulders but cannot see their weapons.

Look at their boots -- leather. No one wears leather boots . . . Gore-Tex. Leather boots are awful -- cold, wet, stiff.

What's with the white cloth ribbons tied around their arms and legs?

Cigarette butts everywhere.

Is that a McDonald's cup lying crushed in the foreground?

[Dial H For Hero]

49. The photos are of Donbass separatists.

Source: https://niezalezna.pl/433729-mosiny-oraz-ptrs-y-pamietajace-czasy-ii-wojny-swiatowej-na-wyposazeniu-prorosyjskich-wojsk-w-donbasie

[yagotme]

56. The "slings" appear to be "Y" harnesses,

Used to bear weight of ammo, canteen, etc. on belt. A "poor" or outdated army will issue leather. Had leathers issued to me in 1983. Not THAT long ago. Believe our current issue boots have some leather on them (desert, etc.). The ribbons are probably friend/foe markers, as the Ukrainians use yellow, I believe. Same/similar uniforms, so you need some kind of identifier to keep from shooting your own guys, especially close in, or urban combat. General issue weapons are probably in a stack or rack somewhere, and the sniper probably doesn't want anyone fingering his weapon (they ARE a pain in the ass to sight in), so he carries it with him. I know I would...

[TeamProg]

36. Got it 7.62 or 3.08 near equivalent. n/t

[Dial H For Hero]

50. 7.62x54R. In the same class as the .30-06.

[yagotme]

54. 7.62x54R.

Last edited Wed Mar 16, 2022, 11:52 AM - Edit history (2)

7.62 (.30 cal., actual .311" ), 54R (54mm long case, "R"-Rimmed).

https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.WuHefANVvgW4K7XPkGAGOQHaEK&w=142&h=100&c=8&rs=1&qlt=90&o=6&pid=3.1&rm=2
Comparable to our .30-'06 round in velocity/energy.
ETA: Certain punctuations cause smileys to pop up...

[DallasNE]

38. The New Uniform/boots And Beard

Says this soldier was reactivated and sent to war. Probably has no training on any modern weapon,

[C Moon]

39. The Russian billionaires want the lower classes to fight for them, but they're not willing to spend

money to buy them the equipment to do so.
Or maybe they thought TFG would win in 2020, and they would have brand new US gear for this.

[calimary]

40. Well, maybe it explains Putin's mentioning the Nazis

as an excuse for invading Ukraine.

[BamaRefugee]

41. Any old weapon will do for point blank shots on women and children.

The f*uckers ALL better burn in Hell.

[left-of-center2012]

43. Fake news

Google says that the Russian army uses a version of the AK-47 which began production of 1990.

This simply proves the point I made in an earlier thread that we need to take stories coming out of the war with a grain of salt.

[Straw Man]

45. Getting a bit lost in your relative clauses ...

Google says that the Russian army uses a version of the AK-47 which began production of 1990.

... but for clarity's sake, the current Russian infantry rifle is an updated AK-74, not AK-47. The basic action is similar, but the AK-74 uses a considerably smaller cartridge, 5.45mm (closer to the 5.56 used by the American M4) rather than the original 7.62mm of the AK-47. The Russians finally learned the lesson that it's better for a soldier to carry a whole lot of smaller cartridges than a few bigger ones. The AK-74 was first adopted in the late '70s, with the upgraded variant coming out in the '90s, as you said.

[Dial H For Hero]

51. The photos are of Donbass separatists, not Russian regulars.

I should have provided a link in the OP, which I have now edited in:

https://niezalezna.pl/433729-mosiny-oraz-ptrs-y-pamietajace-czasy-ii-wojny-swiatowej-na-wyposazeniu-prorosyjskich-wojsk-w-donbasie

As for fake news, I'll grant that plenty of misinformation is out there. But given the context (which I neglected to add at first), it now makes more sense.

[sarisataka]

55. They dug into the museum for that one

But at least its proven technology. I would be curious when the rifle was manufactured. From what I have heard, Mosin can have competition level accuracy or enough accuracy to be used as a club.

[Dial H For Hero]

57. As far as I could tell, the rifle itself was manufactured in 1945. M91-30's were typically quite

accurate (for their day), but who knows how well this particular has been cared for?