Respectfully people,

[MarineCombatEngineer]

please stop calling it a no fly zone, call it for what it really would be, a CAP, combat air patrol.

[Pantagruel]

1. You're asking a lot

from a bunch of formerly pacifist , armchair generals. I'm more than uncomfortable in fatigues.

[relayerbob]

2. Exactly

Onee that requires a LOT of aircraft, a LOT of coordination, and likely strikes against the SAM missiles that would be fired at the patrolling aircraft, in addition to shooting down Russian planes and cruise missiles. If we want to get the Iskanders, then Patriots need to be sent in, requiring use of NATO troops. Things will escalate VERY quickly if NATO tries it.

[TwilightZone]

3. Zelenskyy is referring to it as a no-fly zone.

It's perhaps a bit unrealistic to expect everyone else not to.

From his speech:

"This is a terror Europe has not seen for 80 years and we are asking for an answer to this terror from the world. Is that a lot to ask? To create a no-fly zone over Ukraine to save people. Is this too much to ask? A no-fly zone. Russia would not be able to terrorize our cities."

https://qz.com/2142992/transcript-of-volodymyr-zelenskyys-speech-to-the-us-congress/

[WhiskeyGrinder]

6. Why wouldn't he? It sounds much more palatable, and it's clear people support the idea of whatever

they think it is.

[TwilightZone]

8. My point...

was that demanding that everyone else use a different term is unrealistic. The poster to whom I was replying seems to insist that everyone who uses the term is wrong, which, I guess, would include Zelenskyy.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

11. Technically, he's right,

but the true nature of what he's asking for would involve denying Russian use of the airspace, which would require direct combat with Russian forces, hence, a combat air patrol.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

7. Referring to it as a no fly zone is much more acceptable as opposed

to calling it what it really is, a combat air patrol and all that would entail.

Pres. Zelensky is a gifted politician and speaker, he chose that terminology purposefully, but he knows what it really is.

[BeyondGeography]

4. Hey, people here are always going to disappoint you on the fine print

And no matter how many times you correct us, we’ll always blow the pop quiz.

At the same time, we’re thankful there are posters like you who know their military shit. I know I am.

Feel free to expand on that with comments that are deeper than technical corrections.

Here's an example from a Times of London commenter about the Russian army (the article was about the death of another Russian general):

It has never been seen as one of the worlds top armies. Compare and contras ttheir time in Afgahan with NATOs - they lost 15000 in ten years and we lost a fraction of that in over ten years. It was as a result of their campaign there that we (Rhine Army) in the 80s started to realise that though they had the size, they had poor junior command (poor NCOs), poor equipment and old fashioned battle tactics. The command deficiency is particularly debilitating, as it means that if a platoon commander is killed, there is really nobody to ensure attack moment is sustained. Their Seargents and corporals are hopeless - our in Britian are top notch and subkect to tough selection/command courses (Junior and Senior Brecon) to get our stripes.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

9. Exactly my experience working with the Russian Army's equivalent to our combat engineers.

in the mid 90's.

[mitch96]

5. I think a lot of people call it what the Main stream media(MSM) call it.. nt

[Ohio Joe]

10. What is the difference?

Not being sarcastic or anything, I really don’t know.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

20. A no fly zone can encompass many reasons, like Intl. Airports are all

no fly zones, the area around the White House is a no fly zone, etc. whereas a CAP is for one purpose and one purpose only, to deny the enemy the airspace and engage any enemy air assets
that violate the air space.

[Ohio Joe]

21. OK, that makes sense

Thank you

[LakeArenal]

12. My opinion is that's the common name used. "Incorrect" or not

Kinda like grammar. Sorry if it’s wrong but nobody likes to be corrected on it.

[sarisataka]

13. It is all part of the terminology

To make the results of war more palatable to civilians

Neutralized = killed enemy soldiers
Collateral damage = killed civilians
Friendly fire = we killed our own people
Special military action = unprovoked war
No fly zone = shoot down Russian aircraft

Quite a few people used to take issue with such euphemisms but given the recent sea change DU has experienced regarding war I think the vocabulary is moot.

[leftstreet]

14. Just stop. DUers aren't responsible for MSM framing. n/t

[MarineCombatEngineer]

15. No. nt

[uponit7771]

19. True but we know to be more informed than US M$M ... which is bad enough

[hamsterjill]

16. I think it's stupid to get caught up in semantics

How many posts about this today? No one on DU has the power to provide what Zelensky is asking for - whether his verbiage is correct or not. So without the power to do something, it’s all only discussion. Only words.

Let it go…

[Wounded Bear]

17. No such thing as a "no fly zone" in an active combat zone. It's called CAP. Combat Air Patrol...nt

I've been saying this as well.

[Wounded Bear]

18. If we truly set up a "no fly zone" we would have to shoot down Ukrainian planes as well...

that's why the "semantics" matter.