Does the Ukraine War and it's escalation mean...

[WarGamer]

In future wars involving the US (Think Gulf War 1, Gulf War 2, ISIS/ISIL, Syria, Afghanistan...)

Can we expect the Russians and Chinese to flood the opposition with state of the art weaponry?

In the past, they've been content to send AK's and RPG's...

Is Ukraine a new and potentially "game-changing" standard for the "New World" orientation?

[WarGamer]

2. I didn't see Russia sending Saddam S400 SAM launchers or the Taliban Thermobaric rockets.

Did you?

[WarGamer]

4. Russians and Chinese, yes.

Will they now, in the future... arm their little anti-US allies with state of the art weapons instead of the 1970's crap they've been giving away for decades?

Because a new precedent has been set in Ukraine?

Sorry if you misunderstood me.

[WarGamer]

7. I'm talking about today... with modern arms.

But I think you understand what I'm saying...

[Irish_Dem]

6. Yes 21st century new world order battle lines are being drawn with new rules.

China/Russia autocracies vs democracies.

Anything goes.

[WarGamer]

8. Yup...

The next step is literally... a group like ISIS pops up or there's some bad guy in some country that pops up and suddenly they're armed with J20 jets, thermobaric rockets and drones.

It's a new world.

Hope it all works out.

What's to stop Russia from sending North Korea a sample 16 warhead sub launched missile to copy and manufacture?

[Irish_Dem]

11. The rules are still evolving. Players still sorting out strategy.

It is a fluid situation as they say.

Things have not gone as Putin and China hoped.

Putin is doubling down on a botched invasion.

China is regrouping.

The West is figuring out how to fight w/o starting WWIII.
Taking the West awhile to come out of their denial and realize that they have been played for fools.

China has managed to keep NK on a leash. But they could use him as the bad guy if necessary. Putin would use NK as well.

I think China is trying to decide how to turn all of this into a win for them. They are determined to be the 21st century superpower, with or without Russia.

Putin is the wild card right now.

[WarGamer]

12. +1000, great points

[uponit7771]

34. +1,

[MerryBlooms]

10. I think Russia had already been supplying

Arms in those regions against us, and If they have 2 rubles left to rub together, will always do so. China, I believe is more concerned with their economic condition, than putin is with the russian economy. I think China will agree to give Russia military aid in medical and food, but China doesn't seem to keen on putin's war. In recent statements, China has somewhat tried to distance themselves from putin's disasterous invasion in Ukraine.

I don't believe China will risk becoming a world pariah along side putin. There's nothing to gain. I expect soft support rhetoric, but with putin threatening nukes, I don't believe China will enrich putin militarily.

If China sees an advantage to arming a country, they will. Always have to watch our backs, no matter what China or putin say in public. Our Intel often tells another story.

I rambled on, but I hope my thoughts are clear. 😄

[Irish_Dem]

13. I agree with your points.

Very clear and well stated.

[MerryBlooms]

14. Thanks. I'm just giving uninformed opinions

Like everyone else. 😆 I do a lot of radar flight tracking, and the patterns over the last week and a half, have definitely changed. I have no doubt, we and our European allies are prepared if Russia moves beyond Ukraine. RAF, Italy, Poland, Belgium, US and others, have had not only training missions, but the UK this morning had RAF fighters up and US F16 flying. Lots of C130 Hercules and Super Hercules flying in to Germany and Poland. Iasi airport is very busy. Wizz Air has been flying refugees free, we're also protecting those flight paths.

I know some folks think we're not doing anything, or enough. I encourage them to observe flight radar. Of course it doesn't show all that is going on, but if you look at the skies over Texas, California, UK, Romania, Moldova, and other areas, it's enlightening. There are Blackhawk traing in southern US and other states.

I checked airports in Belarus today, also interesting. Minsk is the only airport operating. I would bet you a doughnut, Russia has control over all other airports, using them for his despicable war against Ukraine.

[Irish_Dem]

15. Wow, very interesting info. Thanks for posting, it's an eye opener.

Yes I think you are exactly correct. We are preparing in case Putin widens the scope of the war either in terms of territory or weapons (nukes).

F-16 is a successful and combat-proven military aircraft.

C-130's are big airplanes! They can carry troops, medical equipment and even vehicles, utility helicopters, etc.

So the US is moving a great deal of military personnel and equipment into Germany and Poland. This definitely sounds like something is building up, I agree.

Blackhawks are training in the US as well.

If you can see this build up, I assume Putin can as well.
Hope it gives him pause.

Yes I think that makes sense, Putin is using Belarus airports for his war against Ukraine.

Thank for posting this information, very helpful. I for one would love to hear from you on flight info of interest.

[MerryBlooms]

16. US has an RQ-4 Global Hawk

That's been flying over the Black Sea. It stays up for many hours. It can record 40,000 Sq miles a day. Very impressive unmanned equipment. I saw it up twice this week. No idea what that means, but at the same time, we had a Stratotanker, Extender, RAF, all up patrolling over Romania. The RAF, was patrolling the entire border of Ukraine and up into Latvia.

There is a lot going on, but tonight is really quiet. Which is probably just me, but also very interesting. 😄

[Irish_Dem]

17. Amazing you can see the military aircraft, drones, etc.

Wow an RQ GH. That is recon/surveillance and it can relay intel to ground forces.

We suspect that Biden is giving Zelensky a great deal of intel and this must be one way he is doing it.

Good God, air refueling, more cargo, tankers. RAF patrolling borders. We are talking serious capabilities here.

Air refueling so fighters don't have to land to fuel up. This is for long distance or prolonged battle?

I take it you perhaps were in the USAF? I was never in the military but am an AF brat. During the Viet Nam War we were living on AF bases in Southeast Asia while my Dad flew missions into VN. We lived on a busy base right near the flight line and the aircraft functions you mention are bringing back a lot of memories. Of course today these are updated versions, and there were no drones back then.

These are the aircraft you need to fight a very serious war.

NATO and the US are making a very strong statement to Putin here.

No, it is not just you. The recent quiet in Air Force activities does make me wonder as well. We know what that could mean.

[MerryBlooms]

19. Gosh no, never in the military.

I was just watching the news before putin's attack, and President Biden's news conferences, and it made sense to me to start monitoring radar.

Along with some of our NATO partners, we had a lot of interesting aircraft up today over Europe.. F16 in Romania, refuelers NATO, Moscow to Brussels... A drone of monitoring some sort, ewas up 117,000ft off the coast of Romania. We're scanning the Black Sea again today. F16 and UK Tiger, patrols along UK eastern coast.

Our training pilots are still heavy in the Texas, Oklahoma Kansas, and along the Mexico border. A few up in California and Arizona. We also had the big Stratotanker flying. 2 AWACS yesterday, eastern TX. First time I've seen an AWACS anywhere on the map. I am thinking we are getting them ready to send overseas.

There is also a balloon up SW of Lubbock TX, that has bee up for 2 days... I looked it up, and it's a Loon, primarily used for internet.

I've been really busy today, so probably missed a lot. I am hoping more C130 Hercules landed and a huge round of humanitarian and weapons arrived.

[MerryBlooms]

21. C130 Polish Hercules flying in now, RAF is patrolling border. 😀

[Irish_Dem]

18. Did you see this post about Russian aircraft movement?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216492933

They are busy bees too.

Interesting that all of this is public information. Neither side is hiding anything.

[MerryBlooms]

20. I've been watching the Russian airports.

Many of the affluent are flying to Istanbul. Very expensive tickets! The flights from St. Petersburg are still lagging far behind Moscow. I think the middle class common folks are flying east. The wealthy are going to Istanbul and Dubai, mostly.

[Irish_Dem]

23. I read that the middle class are going to non visa countries.

The wealthy probably can buy or bribe visas elsewhere.

[MerryBlooms]

25. Yes, agree.

Also, if you check departures from Minsk, mainly to Moscow, Istanbul and Dubai. A few flights from Moscow and Minsk go to Doha.

One flight from Moscow over Black Sea, was government... Older plane, trying to remember what it was. Anyway, that fleet of plane were retired in the mid 2000's, but a few Re kept in service used by Russian government. Fights from Moscow over the Black Sea have been very rare lately. I suspect some high up muckety-muck, going to Georgia. The flight path wasn't identified, but pretty sure that was it's destination.

[Irish_Dem]

27. RU Government officials are being fired or jailed by Putin.

Probably time to leave the country.

Along with the middle class and wealthy.

Thank you for the update!

[Spider Jerusalem]

22. What do you think they were doing in Vietnam and Korea? (n/t)

[Irish_Dem]

24. Yep. Same old shit, different century.

[EX500rider]

26. Exactly, I doubt N Vietnam had a lot of money for MIG's

[WarGamer]

30. Show me s400 SAMS and SU-27's in countries/areas who have fought wars recently vs USA...

Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, ISIL...

[Spider Jerusalem]

31. Iraq and Afghanistan are not that recent

And both have been insurgencies. Not conventional armies and air forces fighting in a way that makes any of those very useful.

[WarGamer]

32. Show me the smart anti-tank systems they sent to Iraq in 2003....

Oh nevermind, they didn't. They only sent RPG's.

Or the man portable anti-aircraft they sent to Afghanistan, oh nevermind... they sent RPG's

[Spider Jerusalem]

35. Iraq and Afghanistan also are not in Europe and do not border NATO countries (n/t)

[WarGamer]

36. The point of this thread...

Is that a new precedent has been set. If/when the US or EU find themselves in their next war... expect Russia to arm the enemy with top shelf gear, not AK's and RPG's...

The world is a much more dangerous place today than a month ago.

[Kaleva]

28. In the past, the Soviet Union flooded the ME with advanced weaponry

Egypt, Syria, Libya and Iraq still got their asses handed to them

Plus, the US has the capability to transport large amounts of war material to the other side of the world and back again .Russia and China are much more limited in that regard.

[Xolodno]

29. You sell the shit you don't need anymore.

But keep the best for yourself and don't let allies, enemies or potential enemies know about its capabilities. Thus far, Russia is using mainly old Cold War stuff. Little of the new equipment is being used...which often leads to raucous speculation that it isn't good as we think it is (see MIG 25 Foxbat). But they have used a bit of new tech, their missiles have advanced counter measures, which makes me wonder if they have even better.

One thing I've noticed, they are definitely trying to hide their capabilities, we just don't know if its good or bad. Reminds me of the old game BattleTech, where the clans issue a Batchcall, the bidding goes to the one with the least amount of forces needed.

[WarGamer]

33. this is the correct answer.

But if there is ever another American war somewhere...

Nothing to stop Russia from sending man portable systems...